Thread Of Dire Judgment

[Esther]

Kandice wrote: "Jessica, I refused to even read Love in the Time of Cholera because I do not feel love and deathly diarrhea should go together in fiction. Maybe in life it's sometimes unavoidable, but I don't want..."

But it's not love - it's obsession, pedophilia and deathly diarrhea.
Personally if I had to choose between Florentino Ariza and Cholera I think cholera might be the pleasanter option.
That character made my skin crawl. YUK!!!

[Mel]

Jennifer, truthfully I am no expert on the word. Being Canadian I am more likely to hear the word "hoser" (Okay can't really remember the last time I heard that word either outside of a Bob and Doug retrospective or a Tim Horton's commercial) so when I say "I have never..." I am drawing from a very limited window into British linguistics comprised mostly of Nick Hornby, Mil Millington, Neil Gaiman and the like books. Quite possibly people rush around incessantly calling people "twats" willy nilly without any regard to gender whatsoever :0 I too am now over the word and will move more genteely over to "tosser" or maybe even "hoser", perhaps it needs a comeback :)

[Juniper]

Mel wrote: "I too am now over the word and will move more genteely over to "tosser" or maybe even "hoser", perhaps it needs a comeback :) "

Well, if we are bringing back "hoser" then we must bring back Geddy Lee singing "Take Off To the Great White North" too. Eh? :D

[Mel]

Jennifer wrote: "Mel wrote: "I too am now over the word and will move more genteely over to "tosser" or maybe even "hoser", perhaps it needs a comeback :) "

Well, if we are bringing back "hoser" then we must bring..."


Koo roo koo koo koo koo koo koo.

[Petra]

LOL, Mel & Jennifer! I haven't thought of Doug & Bob for ages.

[Susanna - Censored by GoodReads]

Jennifer wrote: "Mel wrote: "I too am now over the word and will move more genteely over to "tosser" or maybe even "hoser", perhaps it needs a comeback :) "

Well, if we are bringing back "hoser" then we must bring..."

Ya hoser!

[Juniper]

Susanna wrote: "Ya hoser!"

Take off, eh?

[Mel]

Not sure we Canadians could have blown our cover any more than if we had brought a plastic Coleman cooler full of Molson's and some camp chairs to the thread.

[Sasha]

This thread is really at a new high right now.

- It was me who picked on Jayme's cookbooks. Or someone's cookbooks. I was running out of ideas. We made a parsnip risotto last night that was excellent.

- I'm confident that "twat" is a gender-neutral insult.

- Gawd, we're overrun by Canadians. Don't tread on me! or something like that.

- But it's not love - it's obsession, pedophilia and deathly diarrhea. Ha!

Certain things are fair game for picking on always, no matter what:
- Fantasy books
- Musicals
- Fantasy sports
- Anything with the word "fantasy" attached to it
- Canadians
- Fantasy Canadians
Sorry Jayme, I respect your life decisions, but it's still fair game.

[El]

Don't forget to include on that list of things that are fair game crappy reality TV shows.

[Jayme]

Alex, I love all the things in that list of yours except fantasy sports...I'm going to start to feel persecuted soon.

[PDXReader]

I'd like to include anything featuring any undead creature in any incarnation -- but particularly when they're paired with classic liturature or historic figures (or Canadians).

[Sasha]

It's okay Jayme, you have a guide to First Blood filming locations listed as your personal website, which makes you unassailably awesome no matter what dorky stuff you're also into.

Crappy reality shows are definitely on the list, El. (And now, back to posting on Survivor message boards.)

And this "literary mash-up" genre wore out its welcome pretty much immediately, good point GP.

[Susanna - Censored by GoodReads]

There's a list for it on Listopia. I love the name - "The Monster Mash."

[Esther]

Miss GP wrote: "I'd like to include anything featuring any undead creature in any incarnation -- but particularly when they're paired with classic liturature or historic figures (or Canadians)."

Undead Canadians? A new fantasy genre

[Juniper]

Mel, that made me really laugh out loud! :D

WAIT a second...fantasy Canadians??? Un-dead Canadians??

Are resentments being harboured because we add superfluous "u's" to words like harbour, colour and favour; have an innate apologetic sense about ("aboot") us, sorry; we drink 'pop' not 'soda'; we make real beer and can get it in a two-four and Timmies and Timbits make people happy and you don't have to explain it?

In the words of our national friend, Joe:

"Hey,
I'm not a lumber jack
Or a fur trader
And I dont live in an igloo
Or eat blubber
Or own a dog sled
And I don't know
Jimmy, Sally or Suzie from Canada
Although I'm sure they're really really nice
I have a Prime Minister not a President
I speak English and French not American
And I pronounce it about not "a-boot"
I can proudly sew my country's flag on my backpack
I believe in peackeeping not policing
Diversity not assimilation
And that the beaver is a truely proud and noble animal
A toque is a hat
a chesterfield is a couch
And it is pronouced "zed" not "zee". "Zed"!
Canada is the 2nd largest landmass!
The 1st nation in hockey!
And the best part of North America!
My name is Joe and I am Canadian!"

Bwah-ha-ha!!

:D

[Mel]

Jennifer wrote: "And that the beaver is a truley [sic:] proud and noble animal"

...particularly the always enjoyable giant inflatable ones.

Mel

[Juniper]

Mel wrote: "...particularly the always enjoyable giant inflatable ones. Mel"

Or the delicious deep fried Beavertails! Mmmm.
LOL!! :D

[Mel]

Jayme wrote: "Alex, I love all the things in that list of yours except fantasy sports...I'm going to start to feel persecuted soon."

Having read some of the posts on this thread more carefully I now want to know more about Jayme's relationships with Fantasy Canadians. Plus, Jayme you have been flying far too under the radar on this discussion. Toque wearing is mandatory from now on.

[PDXReader]

Jennifer wrote: "
...And it is pronouced "zed" not "zee". "Zed"!
Canada is the 2nd largest landmass!
The 1st nation in hockey!
And the best part of North America!
My name is Joe and I am Canadian!"..."

SOMEbody needs to cut down on the caffeine...

[Juniper]

Miss GP wrote: "SOMEbody needs to cut down on the caffeine..."

Hmmm...since I don't drink coffee, you can't possibly be talking about me! :D

[Sasha]

I hear moose meat makes you hyper. That's what y'all eat over there, right? You're still hunter / gatherers?

[Mel]

Alex wrote: "I hear moose meat makes you hyper. That's what y'all eat over there, right? You're still hunter / gatherers?"

If Canadians are all running around with bows arrows and capable of bringing down moose as a regular food source you all should be very afraid, very very afraid.

Mel

[Sasha]

I for one welcome our new overlords.

[Jayme]

My Grandfather would fit your bill of a Canadian, Alex. Moose meat he shot himself is definitely on the menu, he still doesn't understand what a vegetarian is, and he's had a 60 year love affair with flannel.

[Jayme]

Mel, I don't know what a fantasy Canadian is either. Unless it's Guy Gavriel Kay, the awesomest author ever. You heard me, Alex.

[Kaion]

I'd read a book about Guy Gavriel Kay facing off golems/pirates/ninjas.

[Juniper]

Uh-oh! A Fantasy smack-down!

[PDXReader]

Kaion wrote: "I'd read a book about Guy Gavriel Kay facing off golems/pirates/ninjas."

Do golems qualify as "undead"?

[Kaion]

Does it require undead? (Don't think they were ever alive, so no? Aren't golems, like, organic robots?)

[Sasha]

Jayme wrote: "Mel, I don't know what a fantasy Canadian is either. Unless it's Guy Gavriel Kay, the awesomest author ever. You heard me, Alex."

Nerd alert! Nice beard, Kay.

[Juniper]

Laughing so hard right now. You all know what Kay looks like, right??

Picture this fighting a ninja!

I mean, props for being Canadian an all but you would so lose in a fight against pretty much anyone Mr.Kay. I like judging things! :D

[Kaion]

That's what makes it interesting! (I do, if only because his rabid fans are very enthusiastic.Tigana is in my TBD cupboard... for any year now.)

[Sasha]

It's guys like that you gotta look out for. They turn out to know some crazy obscure martial art or have mace or be biters or something.

[Juniper]

Alex wrote: "It's guys like that you gotta look out for. They turn out to know some crazy obscure martial art or have mace or be biters or something."

I bet he's a biter! Plus, he whines that his books are never considered for awards; as though they aren't "real" literature, he says. You can't trust whiners. They're too damn needy.

(She says having Kay's Summer Tree sitting in her TBR. Pfft! Credibility shot to hell now.)

[Mel]

Not sure about the "biter" aspect but you may think twice about trusting him when you hear that he earned a law degree in 1978 before switching to fiction writing. Lawyer vs. ninja would be a pretty even fight in some people's books.

Mel

[Mel]

Jennifer wrote: "Alex wrote: "It's guys like that you gotta look out for. They turn out to know some crazy obscure martial art or have mace or be biters or something."

I bet he's a biter! Plus, he whines that his..."

I just looked up the National Post article on him and thought this was interesting:

Nicole Winstanley, Kay's Canadian editor and publisher, says Kay "is one of those writers in the best possible way who's hard to categorize. Is he a fantasy writer? Well, yes. ... But is he solely a fantasy writer? Is his readership only fantasy? No." She says that Kay crosses "genres and readerships in a time when, quite often, booksellers and even publishers are slotting things into categories. He's beyond that."

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/arts/stor...

I just finished
A Certain Chemistry: A Novel and this very publishing dilemma was also mentioned - that publishers like to fit things into neat little slots and books that defy genre are not necessarily a good thing from their perspective.

Also, I just started Horns by Joe Hill (sorry no easy link for some obscure reason) and what do you know one of the first few chapters used "twat" for a woman.

[Juniper]

Mel, that is too funny ~ Joe Hill's book. I have read similar things about Kay before, from his own mouth and his publisher's. I guess he must be frustrated with the industry??

[Jayme]

Yeah, he writes like...historical fantasy? I guess that's what you would call it. But it's still fantasy, I don't think he's as genre bending as he'd like to think he his.

[Sasha]

Sounds like those bands that are all "We defy genre, man!" No, you just don't want to admit that you play pussy rock.

[Juniper]

"Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else."
~ Margaret Mead ~

Everyone wants to defy classification/categorization/labels. I know I don't want to be crammed into a box with other ne'er-do-wells ~ hoarding our books (where we find the answers to most things) being verbose on all things literary, and eschewing dumb-dumbs. Oh, wait...

[Kaion]

But "fantasy" as a genre is treated unfairly. Just check the previous page of this thread.

[Sasha]

To be...fair, this thread is sortof about treating things unfairly. It's not like there's a genre that hasn't been picked on yet.

[Mel]

Jayme wrote: "Yeah, he writes like...historical fantasy? I guess that's what you would call it. But it's still fantasy, I don't think he's as genre bending as he'd like to think he his."

Really? I mean Fionavar Tapestry absolutely but some of his other stuff I'm not so sure. Lots of it doesn't have magic or fantastical creatures or whatnot (okay whatnot is pretty broad, it probably has whatnot but you know what I mean). I guess it depends on how you define fantasy? If it just means fictional places, people, things and events then not sure how much fiction isn't fantasy?

Mel

[Juniper]

I have a friend who defines scifi as "books with bolts" and fantasy and "books with lush green places". For some reason this always cracks me up!

[Jayme]

I like that, Jennifer. It's pretty bang on if you ask me! I tried to think of something to break that rule and I'm thinking that when you write fantasy with bolts you get steam punk? I don't know what happens when you do it the other way around though...I think if I ever right a book it's going to be sci-fi in a green place!

And, Mel, I still think it's pretty easy to put him in the fantasy category. There's always a supernatural thread in his writing and that's how I define fantasy. My theory is that people always want their books to be considered non-fantasy when they're well written. Fantasy has such a bad rap that most authors would rather see their books on the fiction shelf. Look at Gregory Maguire, whose publisher probably went to huge efforts to get his books in the fiction section, where the whole world goes, "Oh those are sooo gooood!". But I bet if you put his books in the fantasy section, where they belong, only the nerds would pick them up.

[Jayme]

Oh and one more thing. I read a cool article by Michael Chabon about his thoughts on genre. He had the best idea to have bookstores without sections. If I made a bookstore I would totally do that. But it would have two sections, fiction and non-fiction. And maybe graphic novels would be separate. But that's it. Think of all the books you'd have to look through to find yours that you might not have noticed.

[Mel]

Jayme, I'm not going to argue too hard on it because I certainly wouldn't call his works "historical fiction" either. But I do have some sympathy over pigeonholing him into strictly fantasy too - it has been a long time since I read them but I honestly don't recall a whole lot of "fantasy" in the Sailing to Sarantium series (actually I don't remember any but I'll take your word for it that it was there).

I liked your comment to Jayme though - here's an example of a "green" sci fi - Anne McCaffrey's Pern series. Would that still fit that genre or do you have the urge to rename it from sci fi into something else?

And when does fiction cross into science fiction or is it a different genre altogether - thinking of Michael Crichton although I might be tempted to add Stephen King, Dean Koontz etc if that isn't explained away as horror (?). Horror itself is kind of a cross-genre I guess like steampunk - a little fiction and a little sci fi/fantasy. But it's not steam punk which is also a little fiction and a little sci fi. Nor is it "urban fantasy" which is a little fiction and a little fantasy a la Neil Gaiman. Makes your head spin. I'm now wondering how publishers ever manage to pigeon hole books in the first place.

Love your idea of a genre free book store however I think it runs up against a few consumer hurdles particularly relating to penny dreadfuls and the like. Some areas of fiction are so over produced at minimal cost margins that they would quickly overrun any full service bookstore. I think you would have to make some discriminating choices either with respect to choices of books to stock or a ghetto for those books that are voluminous in number but don't appeal to a wide group. I buy my books online and I get easily turned off by sites that stack their home pages with mass produced formulaic "bodice rippers" - aka books that, coincidentally, may also attempt to defy genres but universally have a scantily clad woman on the front and possibly a shirtless man and not much else (if that) to recommend it. I can imagine being similarly turned off if I had to sort the wheat from the chaff on a bookstore shelf as well.

And not to make the romance area the only victim of my prejudice I think the same criticism could be true of the serial tv/movie tie ins, and whatever passes for sweet valley high in the young adult section now and the like volumes and anything else that is likely to quickly take over a bookstore shelf like an exponentially replicating virus overpowering anything more original. What do you think? In your fictional bookstore would you just not stock these kinds of books, would you segregate them or would you throw them in with everything else? Would you draw different lines than I have?

Mel

[Sasha]

I'd even combine fiction and nonfiction. What if you looked up Iran and found the awesome graphic novel Persepolis next to Reading Lolita in Tehran and...uh, an Iranian novel? That's a win, right?

Cool idea, Chabon.

[Kaion]

Great point with the Maguire, Jayme.

I'd be up to a genre-less bookstore, with themed displays. I mean, that's the point of a bookstore, right? So people can comingle with the books so they can make informed buying choices. (Otherwise, I would just buy books online.)