Thread Of Dire Judgment

[Susanna - Censored by GoodReads]

Wolf Hall was a very interesting read. I gave it 4 stars, and I would read a sequel (I hear she's considering one).

[Katie]

Kaion wrote:"God, Katie, it's like you love berating me or something. (Oh it would be entertaining, I love being called on my half-assed opinions. :) My friends joke about me hating everything, but I like things... I just like them so much I think they could be better.)"

Oh, sorry, I'm not trying to berate you. I'm curious mostly because your responses are so rational, and yet they are almost always the opposite of mine. (How is that possible? I'm rational!) If I pick at you too much just tell me to go read a book or something.

[Jayme]

Alternate history is awesome! You guys suck. I love a story that starts with "what if" and that's basically what alternate history does. I can't believe how wrong you all are. My favourite exapmle of all time is a movie and not a book, but whatever...and its name is Inglorious Basterds.

[Christy]

Alex wrote: "And I just realized that I gave Drew Barrymore's autobiography a better rating than Dante's Inferno"

Reading Drew Barrymore's autobiography condems you to the 9th level in the Inferno.

[Mary]

*gulp*

Victoria "Posh Spice" Beckham's autobiography is on my TBR list.......I must prepare to be judged, direly.

[El]

Jayme, you might be right about alternate history. There are some okay things out there, like the Philip Roth book I mentioned. And I want to see that movie you mentioned, too. But a lot of alternate history is a little more... over the top? Not even remotely realistic? I think that's what I'm trying to say. And that's what I have a real problem with.


Don't worry, Alex, I've read Drew's autobiography also, so I'll join you in the Inferno. I have to say that for an autobiography to be written by a kid like her, it wasn't half bad.


Mary, um... "Posh Spice"... hmm. I mean, it's only on your TBR list, you haven't read it... yet. I think I'll withhold bashing until you read and rate it. Your rating is what will really make you worthy of some bashing. :)

[Jayme]

Can we judge people on their thumbnails? Cause, Mary, that's the creepiest cat picture I've ever seen. I can't see any books to judge you by yet, although you give a lot of three star ratings and some of them make me sad.

El, you have a point that there's a lot of crud in the alternate history genre, but I think that's true of any genre. Even regular old contemporary fiction. I think people forget that there only seems to be more good fiction than in other genres because that's where there's the most volume.

[Susanna - Censored by GoodReads]

Creepy, but hilariously creepy!

[Mel]

Eliza wrote: "Awesome thread. I'll jump in...

JODI PICCOULT SUCKS. Not as a person, just as a writer. As in, everything she writes. Every. Single. Word.

The Shack is brilliant. I sobbed hysterically ..."

Just found this thread and it is the most brilliant idea for a thread ever. Came across this post and at first thought Huzzah! A true soulmate...Jodi Piccoult couldn't execute a good idea properly if her life depended on it. The queen of letdowns. But then...

The Shack? Really? The Shack? Picture me beating my head against the wall in frustration - this was the most uninspired, uninspiring derivative drivel I have ever had the misfortune to pick up. And yes I read it all the way through and no it didn't get any better.

Mel

[Katie]

Mel wrote: "The Shack? Really? The Shack? Picture me beating my head against the wall in frustration - this was the most uninspired, uninspiring derivative drivel I have ever had the misfortune to pick up. And yes I read it all the way through and no it didn't get any better."

Don't forget condescending! As I was banging my head, I was begging Young to stop writing to me like I'm a child. And really, did he think making God look like Aunt Jemima was clever? *shakes head* I did love the way he personified the holy spirit, though.

[Juniper]

OMDarwin!! You guys crack me up so much on this thread! I figure, since it's the thread of dire judgement after all, pretty much anything is fair game, No? I mean, what good is a thread of dire judgement if there aren't any Judge-y Judgersons throwing out witty and thought provoking diatribes over whatever catches their attention, be it books, reviews, thumbnails or ratings? Maybe we can start a hot? or not? sub-folder? Seriously kidding (unless it is judging a book by it's cover)! And yep, that is one creepy cat, Mary! LOL!!

I have to wonder though, Drew Barrymore (better than Dante?!?!? Wha?) and Posh Spice's autobiographies??? Really??? As Katie so nicely said, I'm rational, you all seem rational, how can there be no judging of celebrity memoirs even if they are just on a TBR?? I am just wondering...?

[Jayme]

I judge people's TBR's! You had to think that book looked good for it to end up there. I might have to start sifting through people's TBR's just to tell them they have terrible taste.

[Carol]

Mary wrote: "*gulp*

Victoria "Posh Spice" Beckham's autobiography is on my TBR list.......I must prepare to be judged, direly."

I agree your cat looks like Jaws. Great book by the way . Kept me entertained when I was younger. I wouldn't go near the ocean for months. Some one asked me if my cat pix was of a dead cat. ew ew. No just my baby holding up the house.

[Mary]

LOL at your avatar, Carol! I love it when my cats sssttttrrrrreeeeeeeetttttcccchhhh like that.

[Kaion]

Jayme wrote: "I judge people's TBR's! You had to think that book looked good for it to end up there. I might have to start sifting through people's TBR's just to tell them they have terrible taste."

Jayme, you can't tell me you've never been taken in by hype and/or book misrepresentation before!


Katie wrote: "Oh, sorry, I'm not trying to berate you. I'm curious mostly because your responses are so rational, and yet they are almost always the opposite of mine. (How is that possible? I'm rational!)..."

I was kidding! 'Cause your spiel on In the Time of the Butterflies? Pretty genius. (Damn, does this mean I have to read it again?)

And there's no such thing as rational! A book is not a thing of itself, it needs a reader. It's all about the experiences and thoughts and symbols one brings into it. (And it's slightly reassuring not all my high school English teachers were *intentionally* evil.)

... but um, I hate when books trot out this message that storytelling is the greatest force. I find it a little self-congratulatory, bordering on predictable at this point. I mean, dammit, I'm already reading the damn book, don't sell the medium to me with meta advertising, show me how awesome you can be. (Yeah, 'cause for every, like, Arabian Nights -I definitely need to get to reading this-, it feels like there's 10 Life of Pis.)*

If really anyone's stories are important, then the selection of the famous Mirabal sisters isn't necessary. I think Alvarez is definitely capitalizing/riffing on the mythical aspects, but it didn't really go anywhere for me with all the (noisy) mini dramas? (Maybe I need to be more acquainted with the myth?)


Persepolis- I think it's a little simplistic/incomplete. Granted, it's her life, so how can I complain about what exactly she experienced, but I find the delivery awkward. I also find the art humdrum and hard to connect with.

If she's telling it from the perspective of a kid, then I rather see more unfolding/experiencing of the story. A bit more horror, unveiling. If she's telling from the perspective looking back as an adult, I expect a more expansive, knowledgeable look of the revolution. Instead I find it kind of waffly. (But still 3 stars.)

[Jayme]

I've certainly never been taken in by hype, Kaion. Every book I pick out is a masterpiece! Just try and find a single bad book in my TBR*.



*Disclaimer: there may or may not be many bad books in my TBR.

[Sasha]

Jayme says this because there are 500 books in her TBR list and she knows we don't have the energy to sift through them. I did see a lot of lame hippie vegan cookbooks there, though. I can get down with vegetarians - more meat for me - but if you don't at least eat cheese I am suspicious of you.

[El]

Jayme, I want to hate your TBR list because I see something I want to mock, but then on the same page I see five cool things like Flannery O'Connor, and then I just feel bad. :)

[Charity]

I can get down with vegetarians - more meat for me - but if you don't at least eat cheese I am suspicious of you.

Totally! A life without cheese is no life at all. But, to each his/her own. :)

[Kaion]

Oooo, Jayme you need to read Dragon Sword and Wind Child, like yesterday. I'm sick of being one of 10 people who know it exists. (Though I have seen on an awful lot of TBR lists lately)

[Sasha]

That title makes it sound like a crappy fantasy book about mages and crap, so how 'bout if I just make fun of you for liking those books without finding out what it's actually about? Okay, great.

[Sasha]

Okay, then I clicked on it and that's totally what it is. Ha ha!

[Mary]

Kaion wrote: "Oooo, Jayme you need to read Dragon Sword and Wind Child, like yesterday. I'm sick of being one of 10 people who know it exists. (Though I have seen on an awful lot of TBR lists lately)"

Ooofah. Judging very direly and feeling totally redeemed in spite of the whole Posh Spice Incident.

[Juniper]

Kaion wrote: "Yeah, 'cause for every, like, Arabian Nights -I definitely need to get to reading this-, it feels like there's 10 Life of Pis.)...."

Ooh-ah sistah!! Life of Pi stinks like a bag of ass!

[Sasha]

Jennifer wrote: "Ooh-ah sistah!! Life of Pi stinks lik..."

I value your opinion and now we will fight.

"Literary fisticuffs," as some lady who didn't like Anna Karenina called it.

[Susanna - Censored by GoodReads]

Popcorn! Who wants some popcorn? Get your popcorn here!

[Kaion]

No mages, duh, Alex. It's Dragon SWORD, not WAND or Gnarly wood thing or whatever. Informative titles, for the win!

And it's awesome so I feel no shame in your ignorance.

[Sasha]

Uh-huh, totally. "Reincarnation of the Water Maiden and a princess of the Children of the Dark" is waaaay different than wizards.

[Juniper]

Alex wrote: "I value your opinion and now we will fight. "Literary fisticuffs," as some lady who didn't like Anna Karenina called it."

LOL!!Challenge, sir!

Before we begin, is everyone seated, popcorn in hand?? Good! now away we go...

Since some BBC scribe does a brilliant service to reviewing the stinkage that is The Life of Pi I present if for your consideration. I liked the review so much, I saved it for an occasion such as this:

"When something is billed as the story of a shipwrecked boy called Pi stuck in a lifeboat with a Bengal tiger called Richard Parker, you know you are on full steam towards Whimsyville.

Imagine a metaphysical Castaway if Tom Hanks' was an adolescent scamp - rather than a paunchy 40-something - with a companion who weighed 450 pounds and marked out his territory with musky urine.

Yann Martel's novel is a real curate's egg. The surreal, allegorical narrative often raises a faint smile with its modest sprinkling of charm and even occasional wit.

But for the most part, it lacks emotional weight, and bearing in mind there is only one real "human" character, little Pi is as thin as tracing paper.

The rare moments of true charm are outweighed by too many indifferent moments when your eyes skim over the words as fast as the lifeboat it describes.

The first 90 pages are a chore, full of unnecessary lumps of cod-philosophy and theology, and what strands there are to be brought together at the end are dealt with in a convoluted way."

Yeah! What he said!

[Kaion]

Alex wrote: "Uh-huh, totally. "Reincarnation of the Water Maiden and a princess of the Children of the Dark" is waaaay different than wizards."

Again, I fail to recognize any actual criticism here.

[Juniper]

Oh yeah, and it sucked too!

[Sasha]

I have "Me Against the World" by Tupac playing in my head right now.

Okay, that review of Pi is a terrific evisceration. And I love that you've been holding that in your ammo belt for the time when some a-hole from Boston starts babbling about how Pi doesn't suck. Fist bump.

But what's this guy looking for? Emotional weight? That's not really what it's about. It's about...uh, tigers, right? Or an allegory about religion. It's a puzzle. Everything means something else, except for that island - I still have no idea what that was supposed to symbolize - and the fun is in trying to trick through it.

It seems to me that this British bastard is judging Pi by the standards of plot-driven novels, and failing to see that it's something else entirely. And I bet he has bad teeth, too.

The central theme is expressed early on: “I have a story that will make you believe in God.” The great thing about Pi is that as an atheist I thought it did exactly the opposite - but I can understand how for a religious person it might be seen as a remarkably effective argument for God. Martel's managed to have his cake and eat it too.

[Susanna - Censored by GoodReads]

Now I want some cake.

[Charity]

The central theme is expressed early on: “I have a story that will make you believe in God.” The great thing about Pi is that as an atheist I thought it did exactly the opposite

Me too! Me too!

This was one of my favorite Pi reviews.

[Mel]

Alex wrote: "I have "Me Against the World" by Tupac playing in my head right now.

Okay, that review of Pi is a terrific evisceration. And I love that you've been holding that in your ammo belt for the time wh..."

Excellent response except to be linguistically correct I think you need to say British "twat" rather than "bastard".

[Sasha]

Oh, I did like that review. Thanks Charity!

You're absolutely right Mel, "twat" is the technical term here. I regret this oversight.

[Kaion]

That is a darn good review, Charity. (And his further points in the comments!)

I'm a atheist too, Alex, but I don't think Life of Pi is really fair to religious folks. Pi is what I think of as one of those crappy "I'm spiritual" folks.

[Juniper]

Alex wrote: "I have "Me Against the World" by Tupac playing in my head right now...."

"Don't wanna make excuses, cause this is how it is":

Granted his teeth are bad, and his breath is something to write home about, he makes some interesting points. I don't think he is judging on the same standards as plot-driven novels, though.

Okay, Martel does construct a fantastical (but not so brilliant) journey rife with the intellectual conundrums most often posed at the freshman philosophy student in the seediest course of her academic career. Many who have studied philosophy will find this novel to be a tedious reminder of those first moments of idealistic deconstruction, albeit without the first time thrill of doubting what was initially thought as solid reality.

I did find the book, if not illuminating, at least useful for conversation during a lame-o cocktail party, where the cerebral capacity of the guests was somewhat muted though the desire for verbal communication remained. Indeed,(as I read once) Martelian chatter is well suited for dim corners in German absinthe bars or perhaps an inebriated audience in certain European coffee shops.

I suggest, if you are flying to Amsterdam anytime soon, you read this book on your way over and then, as soon as humanly possible, immerse yourself, and maybe a few of your friends who have also read the book, within the luxury of the city's "liberties." The ensuing idiotic discourse with whomever you care to talk to might heighten, for good or bad, the complexity of the oncoming muddle that is partying in Amsterdam. If such is the case, you might want to look for Richard Parker in a park or assume the lifestyle of the novel's author and write a sequel.

Be warned (IMHO):

If people buy into the premise this "story will make you believe in God." Well, keep looking! Pi dabbles about in three religions without fully committing and the absence of real religious discussion during the survival story is all the more odd given the novel’s coda, which is explicitly about faith and belief.

The hallucinatory accounts are not anything new. The concepts underlying the passages are not original even if their delivery is novel.

Edited to add: I thought the island to be Pi's Eden and also a place where living or surviving face-off. Maybe??

[Juniper]

Susanna wrote: "Now I want some cake."

Mmm...cake!

[Juniper]

Mel wrote: "Excellent response except to be linguistically correct I think you need to say British "twat" rather than "bastard"."

Such a good word twat is! Don't hear it much, beyond the colonies! Though, sadly not an anatomically appropriate word for the reviewer I got the bit from; I believe he is a he. LOL! We could call him a berk, git, helmet or a tosser though. Wait, I'm on his side!! :D

[Katie]

Charity wrote: "The central theme is expressed early on: “I have a story that will make you believe in God.” The great thing about Pi is that as an atheist I thought it did exactly the opposite

Me too! Me too!

T..."

Well, since you mention it...

I thought Trevor's review sucked. I found it completely patronizing and it actually made me angry.

"But the religious are generally terribly arrogant, so it is best not to feel insulted by their endless insults – they know not what they do."

Punk. 'Cause it's not arrogant at all to clump all religious people together under one ridiculous stereotype, right? Shut up. Shit, it's not like it was written by Jim Jones or something. Give me a break.

Jennifer's review, on the other hand, made me laugh out loud (or perhaps I should write "L.O.L.," huh Trevor?) and choke on my wine. That was brilliant. *genuflects*



Kaion wrote: "I'm a atheist too, Alex, but I don't think Life of Pi is really fair to religious folks. Pi is what I think of as one of those crappy "I'm spiritual" folks."

I was thinking the same thing, Kaion. (Yes, I just agreed with you.)

[Juniper]

Katie wrote: "Jennifer's review, on the other hand, made me laugh out loud (or perhaps I should write "L.O.L.," huh Trevor?) and choke on my wine. That was brilliant. *genuflects*."

Ahh!! My work here is done! Nothing like a good ol' wine snort to clear the nasal passages.

Hmm, I just read Trevor's review. Interesting. It did seem sweepingly dismissive and non-specific - other than his hate-on for Christians - until you read the banter in the comments. I get his thought about the tiger being god, that is certainly one possibility but the rest of his comments probably offended a lot of people in a manner wholly unfunny. :) Oh yeah, it's a smiley face!

The one comment Trevor makes that I did a triple-double-take on was the statement: "The book is written by a member of that class of people who are my least favourite; a religious person who cannot conceive of someone not being religious." Wha-ha?? I have no specific recollection of Martel voicing his religious beliefs or non-beliefs. He did have a global upbringing and, after studying philosophy at Trent University in Peterborough, Ontario, Martel spent 13 months in India visiting temples, churches, mosques and zoos, and then two years reading religious texts and castaway stories. I do give him props for the work and research he put into the novel, for sure. I found one bit of illumination here where Martel says he is "religious in a broad way, and riven with doubts..."

This is how Yann Martel wrote the novel (in his own words) and he even touches on the plagiarism dispute, briefly, and how the review for the other book was an early inspiration.

Geez, I feel like Yann should be my friend now or at least take me out for tea. And pie. Mmm...pie!

Are we all excited about his new book Beatrice and Virgil: A Novel featuring, you guessed it, talking animals? This time a donkey and a monkey. That could be an awesome conversation, no? Oh, and they are stuffed; in a taxidermists.

Can we officially expand the realm of dire judgement to include talking about judging people who don't know we are ripping them to bits respectfully discussing them?

Oh and Alex? you are so NOT an a-hole! :D Oh yeah! Super smiley face. Take that Trevor!

Oh, and I am not religious either.

Oh and night is dark.

[Jayme]

Am I too late to defend my love of wizards and wizard related books? You guys seem to have a good life of pi argument going on! Too bad I haven't read it.

Alex, you're so not aloud to judge a book because of it's genre! It's time to fight now. I put Dragon whatever on my TBR because most fantasy is written by British dudes and it will be interesting to read something from another culture. I imagine it will be like a Miyazaki film in book form, with Japanese mythology instead of the typical distorted Greek and Roman mythology.

[Susanna - Censored by GoodReads]

Mmmm, pie.

[Jayme]

I forgot I have to defend my cookbooks too, of all things. They rock and if you guys were lucky enough to eat dinner at my house you'd say, "Oh my god, I wish I could eat like this everyday". Cause I'm that awesome at cooking. Tonight, Jayme, is serving Butternut Squash Risotto and Garlic Glazed Asparagus.

[Mel]

Jennifer wrote: "Mel wrote: "Excellent response except to be linguistically correct I think you need to say British "twat" rather than "bastard"."

Such a good word twat is! Don't hear it much, beyond the colonies!..."

You know Jennifer when you think about it linguistically you are absolutely correct and yet I have never once heard/read the word "twat" used for anything but a man.

[PDXReader]

Mel wrote: "You know Jennifer when you think about it linguistically you are absolutely correct and yet I have never once heard/read the word "twat" used for anything but a man..."

Hmmm... maybe there's a good reason for that...

[Kat (A Journey In Reading)]

LOL, this thread is hilarious!!! LOVE it!!!!

[Juniper]

Miss GP wrote: "Hmmm... maybe there's a good reason for that... "

Mel wrote: "...I have never once heard/read the word "twat" used for anything but a man."

Ha-ha-ha!! You are likely right Miss GP, although the reasoning escapes me?!?!

Mel, seriously?? Huh! I was unaware. Not that I am any expert on slang, throwing muck or hurling insults, but twat, though anatomically specific, has always seemed, to me, to be a gender-neutral unbiased cuss-out hurled all willy-nilly hither and yon. Male, female, cross-dressed, trans-gendered; who ya got? They too could be a twat!

I've gone off the word now! LOL!

[Juniper]

Jayme wrote: "I forgot I have to defend my cookbooks too, of all things..."

Who picked on your cookbooks, Jayme? Are they cooking for Oprah cookbooks? I love cookbooks. I love cooking, sometimes. I love it more when someone else cooks! Mmmm...asparagus! Super-yummy!