Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (Harry Potter, #7) Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows discussion

Why include the Hallows?

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message 1: by Shahriar (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:08PM) (new)

Shahriar Am i the only one who has the impression that JKR included the Hallows, namely the Elder wand (and its backstory), only as a means of having Voldermort die at the hands of Harry, without harry becoming a murderer?

I do not see otherwise, why these relics would even be included?

message 2: by Stasha (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:08PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Stasha It was also a way of humanizing Dumbledore, giving him faults so that he was not so superhuman.

message 3: by Kelly (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:09PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kelly M Also it gives you something to wonder about for some of the book and it made a really good ending when dumbledore explained it.

message 4: by Cindy (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:09PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cindy I like how J.K. Rowling ended it. It shows just how intelligent and clever Harry is. He knew he wouldn't be able to win against Voldemort by brute force, he had to use his wits. J.K. also impresses how strong an ally Love is, and Voldemort has none of that. If Harry hadn't loved and been loved, he would not have had so many to help him out, he would not have had that extra Oompf to keep fighting evil. Oodles of Kudos to J.K. for such a clever series. Think about all the twists and turns, nooks and crannies that she allowed the books to take.

message 5: by Sarah (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:10PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sarah I didnt really see the point of the Hallows. It was a clever way of presenting the discourse of death but the idea seemed rushed. I think the main problem with the hallows is, unlike everything else, there was no metion of them before they became a central plot line.

message 6: by chynna (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:10PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

chynna I agree with Stasha. it made everyone realize that Dumbledore wasn't as perfect as we all thought. He had obsessions and was as greedy as the next wizard. it reinforces the idea that no one's perfect.

message 7: by Natalie (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:11PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Natalie but in every book something is presented to us readers that is new. she needed the hallows to keep the readers wondering. Also, there was mention of them- the stone and the cloak. we just didnt realize their importance before reading 7.

message 8: by Alex (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:11PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Alex Panzin The hallows is a way to connect Harry to Dumbledore. Really I don't believe that they were in planning from book 1(where the cloak was introduced).
Nice ending, not great though...

message 9: by Kimberly (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:12PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kimberly I liked how the Hallows and the Horcuxes were separated, yet linked together in some way...And how Dumbledore's secret life was included and that led to the Horcruxes...I also liked how the search led to Godric's Hallow....

message 10: by Hannahgsutherland (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:12PM) (new)

Hannahgsutherland does anyone know whether dumbledore wantd harry to hunt down the hallows or had he just intended on harry getting information on the elder wand, if it was the latter then why did he give harry the snitch with the ring. did dumbledore want harry to use the hallows to prevent death or something?? so confused:S ALSO was the only reason that harry had a choice to go on living when he sacrificed himself to voldemort beacuse took harrys blood? or did the hallows have some part in his survival?

message 11: by Jane (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:13PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jane I think, like always, Dumbledore was giving Harry the freedom to choose his own path in life. I think which ever Harry chose to pursue - the Hallows or the Horcruxs - he always had the power within himself to defeat Voldemort. And Dumbledore also wanted to protect Harry (if he could) from pursuing the Hallows for the wrong reason (the type of reason he and Grindewald wanted them)so he made them difficult to reach because the object of a quest is worthless if it's not worth fighting for - its a fight for his own soul.

I had to reread the last few chapters a few times before I understood how come Harry didn't die when Voldemort tried to kill him in the forest - it was because some of Harry's mother's protection charm still existed - it did not end when Harry and the Dursley's seperated, just their part in the protection. But Voldemort also carried Lily's blood in him - thanks to using Harry's blood to regenerate his body - the protection still existed, so Voldemort could not kill Harry. But, back to Harry and why he have a choice to go on living, well it's the whole path thing again - Harry could have considered that he had "done enough" and gone "on" join his family and friends and who would argue he deserved that. But that would have almost been another form of suicide - but Harry was no coward, and he could see that there was still life in front of him if he defeated Voldemort and he chose to not give up. The Hallows had nothing to do with it at that point - but consider this - if Harry HAD decided to go on, at that point would Voldemort have then become the true master of the Elder Wand? Sometimes I think so, on the other hand Harry was willing to sacrifice himself, so he was not mastered and I think the power of the Elder Wand would have died with him.

message 12: by Mike (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:13PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mike D. I think that the Hallows were the only way for Harry to really defeat Voldemort. The way the story went, he would have failed had he not been the true owner of the Elder Wand. Of course I know there were the horcruxes, but he wasn't able to finish that. This left just one way and that was the hallows.

message 13: by Jane (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:14PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jane But the horcruxes were finished
1) The Diary - by Harry in COS
2) The Ring - by Dumbledore in HBP
3) The Locket - by Ron in DH
4) The Cup - by Hermione in DH
5) The Diadem - by the fire conjured by Crabbe or Goyle in DH
6) The Snake (Nagini) - by Neville in DH
7) Harry - by Voldemort in DH - Harry wasn't killed but the piece of Voldemort's soul died as Harry and Dumbledore were talking.

message 14: by Mduduzi (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:17PM) (new)

Mduduzi I agree with Mike. Harry was not even close to being strong enough to beat the Dark Lord. The only way he could beat him is if he didn't. Voldemort, in effect killed himself...Harry didn't do much. What was he trying to do Disarm to death?

message 15: by Shahriar (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:18PM) (new)

Shahriar you say that the hallows were the only way to defeat voldemort. Well, how did he uses them?
He'd already had the cloak.
the stone was pretty redundant in the end.
and the elder wand, was already taken by voldemort.
And harry in any case had taken Draco's wand even before understanding the dynamics of the elder wand, and was using it as his own.
So in fact harry would have done the same thing even if he didn't know about the hallows.
And that's why i say that JKR introduced the Hallows, because otherwise, harry would have had to commit murder to kill voldemort, (and as you say, he would have to disarm voldy to death).
That's why the hallows, seem rather contrived, and like a literary tool to keep his hero from becoming a murder, more than anythign else.

message 16: by Mduduzi (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:20PM) (new)

Mduduzi Coming from HBP, my I knew that the next book would be the last and therefore the one in which Voldemort was destroyed. My question at that time was how the Dark Lord would be defeated by Harry.
At the end of HBP, after Snape kills Dumbledore, you have Harry trying to attack Snape throwing curses at him but Snape, effortlessly, parries all of them. As Snape said, Harry was much too weak to defeat him. At this point I realised that in order to defeat Voldemort, the final book would have to span years in which Harry would grow more powerful, beyond even the Dark Lord himself. But since the Dark Lord would continue growing himself in power. Harry surpasing him, even with Voldemort's skills imparted when he tried to kill Harry, was unlikely. Harry could not defeat Voldemort in an equal duel. Harry at the end of DH still did not possess the power to defeat Voldemort in an equal duel.
The only person who could have beaten Voldemort was Dumbledore and him being dead meant he couldn't.
The Hallows, specifically the Elder Wand, were a way in which Harry could beat the Dark Lord. There is no way, no way, that Harry could have beaten Voldemort in one-on-one battle without the presence of the Wand. Voldemort killed Snape with a wave of his (rather Harry's) Wand. Snape being more powerful than Harry, and Voldemort more powerful than Snape...Harry would have died...again.
My point, which I hope I have explained, is that Harry was not strong enough to beat the Dark Lord in a duel, not skilled enough. Even Dumbledore said it would still take a highly skilled wizard to defeat Voldemort even without any Horcruxes.
The only way he could have won, is the way he did. Being master of the Wand and Voldemort making the mistake of using the Wand against its master. The Stone and the Cloak may have not even existed, the Elder Wand was the important Hallow. it was the only way Harry could win.
The Resurrection Stone served to show that Dunbledore wasn't as perfect as everyone had thought and the Cloak merely that Harry was descended from the Peverell brothers.

message 17: by Maxwin (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:52PM) (new)

Maxwin it was only the elderwand'resurrectionstone and the invisibility cloak

Steve Each of the novels' titles refer to objects or entities that, while driving their plots forward, certainly aren't totally integral to the overall arc of the Voldemort/Harry mythology.

message 19: by Kat (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kat Helgeson Here's my theory:

The cloak has obviously helped Harry numerous times.

The stone gave him the courage he needed to go to his death - surrounded by those he loved. Dumbledore knew he would have to do this.

The wand, I think Dumbledore probably suspected that Voldemort would go for it and was simply warning Harry.

Voldemort could have been defeated without any of these things. But there is no denying that they were useful. In the end, I think it was important that Harry was able to relinquish the hallows - it's really one of the most powerful things he does throughout the whole series, and no one else in known history had been able to do it.

message 20: by Ruby (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ruby I think the Hallows were a way to install a race/quest in the book. It also gives the feeling of wizard legends and wizard world depth.

Beatriz It didn't spoil the book, but I do feel like they should've at least mentioned them before

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