Fans of Norah Lofts discussion
Layer Wood +other NL locations
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Layer Wood Map
message 151:
by
Sallie
(new)
Mar 31, 2010 08:28AM
Canary - my daughter & son-in-law are in San Antonio. If your Mom/sister need anything let me know & I will notify her so she can help. We NL fans/family have to stick together.
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Just a reminder to everybody on this thread - the map I am sending out is not THE LAYER WOOD MAP. It is a map of the village of Clevely from the book "Afternoon of an Autocrat." It is, however, located at the edge of Layer Wood. We are still searching for the original "Layer Wood Map" and are also researching all the House book locations in case we have to come up with our own version.Hi Sallie! So glad you're back. The easiest way to get a copy of the Clevely map is to send your address to me at Sylvia Badis, P.O. Box 48, Pleasant Plain, Ohio 45162.
I will do this asap, Sylvia, and thank you.
Happy Spring everybody! Happy Fall, Barbara!I wanted to report just a little bit of progress on the map project - not good news, but the saving of some time. I tracked down the artist of the beautiful Clevely map, who was William (Willie) McLaren of Scotland. His unusual work included wall murals in castles and great houses and 150 book jackets! A documentary about him was just made last year. I found a site about the film, wrote an email to the site, and received an answer from the film director. He sent me a long list (color coded!) of every work they knew of that he completed, and the one map of Clevely was the only Lofts art work on the list. So at least we know there are no more like that one.
The only other contacts I plan to make at this time are to write to some of the used book dealers who specialize in historical fiction and ask them to manually search through their Lofts collections and look for the Layer Wood map. I know most won't bother, but "hope springs eternal"!
I continue with the location searches in the Town House Trilogy, but took off some time to read Werner's book, "Lifeblood". I'm hoping not to give anything away if you haven't read it yet, but it is about vampires. However, it is not what you would expect and is very good reading, and a very different perspective. I was especially curious, Werner, how a Christian with your Bible knowledge would handle the subject, and I was very impressed! Also, a teen can read this book without being turned to "the dark side".
http://www.funtrivia.com/en/Literatur...Has anyone seen this? It says that Layer Wood is like a six fingered glove with large houses at each finger. I hadn't heard it described like this before.
Barbara wrote: "Well, that confirms my eeeew re sweetbreads, no matter what organ they are! Yes, where are you Cassie? "
LOL! I probably am the youngest one-I'll be 34 in May. I just got busy with life. We bought a house, I changed jobs, my son started kindergarten, we changed day cares. Things have just been so crazy!
Canary wrote: "I clicked on the link but the map didn't come up for me. Do I need to register to see it? I thought it was 5 fingered but bad memory."You shouldn't have to register-I didn't. I would love to talk to the person who created this quiz and find out where they got their information. I also found someone who did a review on Amazon and I made a comment on her review but I think you did that before I did Alice.
Cassie wrote: "Canary wrote: "I clicked on the link but the map didn't come up for me. Do I need to register to see it? I thought it was 5 fingered but bad memory."You shouldn't have to register-I didn't. ..."
I emailed the quiz creator.
http://getamap.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/g...I think maybe people have seen this before. It's a map of a modern day "Layer Wood"
I am almost certain that one of you, maybe Barbara or Susan, found the "six finger" description of Layer Wood in your map research, and I think it was from "Afternoon of an Autocrat". It is in my notes but I can't read them until daylight!Sallie, your Clevely map will go out Sat. or Mon.
Thanks, Peggy! I couldn't find the description in my notes.
Peggy wrote: "The six-finger glove description is from Nethergate; page 10 in my copy."
I just read that again and didn't remember!
I just read that again and didn't remember!
I got some encouragement today from the National Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. One of their reference librarians specializing in English Literature is working on our map research! She has already looked through the NL books on the library shelves without success, but is willing to request all of the 18 Layer Wood titles in all their various editions to be brought out of storage so that she can look through them! I sent her the 18 titles today. It took only 5 days for her to look into and respond to my questions! I told her we got a quicker (and more willing) response from the NLOC than from all the other sources combined. One of the first places she found on the internet regarding Layer Wood was our own Goodreads Forum! She also gave me some other leads to try and I intend to pursue every one of them. I'll let you know as soon as I hear anything. She (Beth) was also very impressed with the amount of research we've already done and how many sources we've checked. I am impressed that the largest library in the world moves faster than the little one in Bury St. Edmunds!
Hopefully I will get a letter out to the History Pub. Susan found who is repub. NL currently. I want to mention the importance of the map to those 18 books and also mention Mary's poem in case they intend to repub. Pargeters. Wouldn't her poem be fitting for NL's last book?
Carry on, undefeatable researchers!
Thank you, Sylvia, for all the work you and the others are doing! My Clevely map arrived - how fun. If only we could move it over to the east a few miles and see the rest. Am rereading Out of this Nettle. Wasn't it one of the "retitled" stories?
So glad your map arrived, Sallie. Yes, Out of This Nettle was also titled "Colin Lowrie".
I almost had a coronary yesterday. Bought "Crown of Aloes" for 50 p at the library book sale and - voila'!!!! A map on the whole inside cover!!! Alas, it's of Spain. I haven't read this book in over 35 years. If anyone is interested in having a copy of this Spain map, I'd be glad to scan it (or try to)and send it out to you like Sylvia did with Clevely
Oh WOW, Sallie, you almost gave me a coronary! I thought "our work is done"! I have the map of Spain, too, but someone said on here that there is also one of France and of the nations involved in the Crusades.
Just a note to say that the Layer Wood Map research is on-going. A new member, Maggy, whose husband works for (or owns?) the pub. company that is republishing NL books, said that when the research is done, if I mail all the info to her, she will find an artist to make the map! Isn't that wonderful news?I am maintaining files and notebooks on all the information you have gathered up to this point from the L.W. books. I have put six of the locations on my own working map, but am still not positive on all of those. I have allowed myself to be distracted from the project by joining in some book discussions. I need to stop that, because I hope to have everything gathered for Maggy no later than a year from now. If you don't hear much from me now and then, I'm probably deep in the Woods!
Martha Pratt narrates: "So, carrying the sealed letter, I walked to Nethergate, taking the way through Layer Wood which lies like a great six-fingered hand over all our part of Suffolk." (p. 10, Nethergate, Norah Lofts, Doubleday, 1973)
Sylvia wrote: "Just a note to say that the Layer Wood Map research is on-going. A new member, Maggy, whose husband works for (or owns?) the pub. company that is republishing NL books, said that when the research..."
Fantasic news.
That is cute......I live sort of deep in the woods, its a good place.
Fantasic news.
That is cute......I live sort of deep in the woods, its a good place.
Sherry wrote: "Martha Pratt narrates: "So, carrying the sealed letter, I walked to Nethergate, taking the way through Layer Wood which lies like a great six-fingered hand over all our part of Suffolk." (p. 10, ..."
How close to the ocean do you think Layer Wood is? I walked in several woods there but I was very near the sea. One was an ancient woods and the other was called The Queens Forest.
How close to the ocean do you think Layer Wood is? I walked in several woods there but I was very near the sea. One was an ancient woods and the other was called The Queens Forest.
I can't wait to see a map of Layer. All of the places are a huge jumble in my head.Mom-thought you were going to loan me Copsi Castle?
Message 172 has a link to a map of Layer Wood, but it sure doesn't look like a six-fingered hand. It looks rectangular to me.
What great news! Feels like it's December 26th and we have to wait a whole year for Christmas!
Mom- Message 172 is a link to the real modern day Layer Wood. Not the Layer Wood of NL.
Alice, Bywater is the ocean port that almost every NL character heads for, and it is 20 miles from Knight's Acre. Knight's Acre is described as the "last outpost" of Layer Wood. Of course a few of those "fingers" may reach out a bit closer to the coast than the Knight's Acre oroperty, which is located between two of the fingers.
We are going to the SE of England next June. What can I find out when we are there? Maybe the LW map will have been constructed by then?
Is Bury St. Edmunds far enough south to be included? If it is, it would be great if you could visit their library! I can't say whether I will have gotten all the map info. to Maggy by then or not, or even estimate how long it will take an artist to make the map. But wow - we have a year to think about your trip. That is so exciting! How long do you plan to stay? Maybe you can visit Clive Lofts and tell him about your visit with his Mom.
Does anyone know of a (fictional) named river in the Layer Wood area other than the Wren River? If so, do you know which NL books mention it? Thanks!
Gad's Hall confirms that it is the Wren River which runs through most of the Layer Wood locations and past Baildon. However, I would like to request that while any members are reading NL fiction connected to the Norfolk/Suffolk area, if you run across any other river name, would you please note it here? Thanks.Also, if anyone has access to a good map of the (real) Norfolk and Suffolk counties in England that gives their mileages, north to south, and east to west, would you please post that information here? Thanks SO MUCH.
My experience has been that the free maps on the internet do not give good descriptions or even good outlines, and I have not yet found a map I really like in the bookstores or our local library.
Did you see my post above Sylvia? This is what I found when I was looking it up.http://getamap.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/g...
That is a nice map, very clear and readable.
I fail to see how that is like 6 fingers tho. What am I missing there?
Yeah, I saw that, too. Unless it is just a general outline of the basic area.
Sylvia wrote: "Gad's Hall confirms that it is the Wren River which runs through most of the Layer Wood locations and past Baildon. However, I would like to request that while any members are reading NL fiction c..."
I still believe that Bywater is Aldeborough. Search the coastline in Suffolk to see what it might be.
I still believe that Bywater is Aldeborough. Search the coastline in Suffolk to see what it might be.
Cassie wrote: "Cassie wrote: "Canary wrote: "I clicked on the link but the map didn't come up for me. Do I need to register to see it? I thought it was 5 fingered but bad memory."You shouldn't have to regis..."
Alice,
You may have thought it was five-fingered because of the reference to a glove which does have five fingers.
Someone mentioned a while back about remembering a map inside the cover of one of the books. I remember seeing that, I'm almost sure, but I don't seem to have it in any of my copies. I'll bet it would be in a hardback, rather than a paperback. There is a map in The Lute Player, but that is Richard's Crusade.The modern map of Layer Wood most closely resembles a rectange to my mind.
And by the way, I am Cassie's mother. I thought you were already 34, honey. Are you sure? You were a bicentennial baby, born in 1976, subtract that from 2010 and it is 34. I am perplexed.
Alice,I went a whole year thinking I was a year older than I actually was. I think Life owes me another year.
Thank you, Peggy! Going back through the last 10 or so posts, it was me who first mentioned seeing a Layer Wood map in a library book years ago. Since no forum member has one, and no official agent knows of it, I have concluded in my own mind anyway, that a very artistic fan drew that map in the library book I am remembering. Even Clive Lofts, who went through every NL book in his possession, didn't find it. By the way there are other maps in her books: Clevely, Spain, France, and the Crusades that I know of.Someone found a real Layer Wood in England early this year, but it is not in the location of NL's fictional area. I feel sure that she used many real locations as inspiration for her stories, such as admitting that she designed Baildon after Bury St. Edmunds. And I think Bywater has to be east of the border of Norfolk and Suffolk. But I don't think we can base the locations of her manors, castles, villages,etc. on real places too much.
My own plan is to draw my own map conclusion from all the research descriptions. I still hope to make a wall hanging of it! The research and my map will be available to anyone who wants it from Werner Lind at his college library, but I will post that info. later. I hope to finish this project by spring of 2011. (Maggy, the publisher's wife, may turn up again, too. She mentioned finding an artist to make the map.)
Thanks for everybody's continued interest!
Cassie, I forgot to mention the map you posted of a real Layer Wood. Thank you for doing that. I believe it is a different one from what was found early in this thread. This one is in the Colchester area, which is mentioned in several of NL's books, so maybe NL was familiar with it and took inspiration from it. She did mention in some personal writings a woods filled with wildflowers that she roamed. I think we have to picture her six fingered Layer Wood as a forest that was very slowly carved out by the Romans, the Vikings, the Normans (?) and whoever else settled the area from earliest times. Keep in mind that many of her locations are close to the Norfolk-Suffolk border. At least we know exactly where that is!
It seems to me that in A Wayside Tavern, Bury St Edmunds is a real city with a shrine and a stained glass window depicting a wolf carrying the saint's head. Many miracles were ascribed to the shrine. And I remember a reference to the miracles having to do with psychological changes. I think Maude Reed's husband was one of those, whose attitude changed from passive to more aggressive. Anyone else remember anything like this?
I would have to reread re: attitude changes, but I do know that NL uses real locations in her stories including Bury, Colchester, and London. But I believe she also refers to basing the early Baildon on the early history of Bury St. Edmunds including the monastery, ruins, market, etc. I believe there is still a link somewhere in this thread that takes you to a Bury St. E. site where you can watch a video history of the church and monastery. You feel like you are in her Baildon. Baildon is described as north of Bury in her books.
I did google Bury St Edmunds a while back. I enjoyed learning more about it.
I wonder if those were the same Vikings who arrived at The Wayside Tavern?
My guess is yes, they were the same. But I don't remember how far back the Wayside Tavern account goes. So far in my research, I've only run across this one river in the Layer Wood accounts. It flows to the sea and also flows past Baildon, so it is pretty close to all the villages in between. What I'm looking for are small tributaries that may flow into the Wren. I'm not sure if the river shown on the Clevely map is of the Wren or another one. I didn't find a name at all for it.
It kind of makes sense to me that a river would meander through the wood, and that people would settle in their villages close to a fresh water source.
I have run into the name of another river, the Lark! Interesting that the only two rivers so far in the Layer Wood area have the names of birds, Wren and Lark! This river is mentioned on page 174 of The Old Priory and describes it as the river that flows through the town of Baildon. We know that the Wren passes by Knight's Acre so it must be north of the Lark. There is no indication yet that one is a tributary of the other, but I believe the Wren flows toward Bywater. Please keep watching for other named waters.
I have just gotten into "A Wayside Tavern" which mentions the Lark River several times in the first chapters. The Lark definitely flows into the sea. Now we need to watch for any hints that these two rivers meet somewhere inland.
Thanks for all this info, Peggy. I haven't yet looked at the counties in question from Google, but I will do that. Great idea, especially if Google gives the nileage. I do have some mileages between real towns now that will help me to figure out the distances between NL's fictional towns, etc. Has anyone noticed that most of the distances mentioned in the L.W. books are 5, 10, and 20 mile distances?
Mallow, where the One Bull was, is said to be only four miles from the sea and on a river , but frustratingly it is never named ( I don't think) and the only river named is, even more frustratingly, called The Other River , on which the settlement became Triver over time, as Beofricsworth became Bosworth.
