Fans of Norah Lofts discussion
Layer Wood +other NL locations
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Layer Wood Map


Thank you so much for agreeing to send it to me anyway. I will re scour through D In C to see if I missed anything , particularly river references and orientatation


Sorry this proved to be a dead end! It'll be back to searching World Catalog when I go back to work later today. :-)

Sylvia, I am sorry that you are having problems with the printing, it must indeed be frustrating that you are not at work, but you have certainly taken on a lot to keep you occupied with all things "Norah Lofts" related!
Thanks to everyone who is doing such a grand job!
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Susan, did you mail your address or email to me? I plan to work on this copy I had someone scan and email back to me to try to make it print out better. It is also chopped off about an inch, but will give you an idea of what it looks like.
Also, I went to Alibris to the rare book section and asked for a list of "A of an A" with dust covers, and there were several, so I ordered one, just to see this map in color. They go from around $10 to $20.
Everybody's interest in the map is so encouraging (and downright FUN!).

No, I have not mailed you yet Sylvia, I have been busy with hospital appointments and doctors appointments, but will get that off to you as soon as I can.
We have had some sunshine here in Scotland, but it is very cold! Greetings to all of you around the world!

Are those hospital and dr. appts. for your husband or your children, or both? My prayers are with all of you.
Speaking of cold and sunshine reminds me (somehow) that just for tomorrow, the whole world is Irish, or so we say in the States! So wear green tomorrow everybody, and Happy St. Patrick's Day! and to all NL drinkers, put some green in your TEA!

You know, " I am going to write a novel mainly featuring a female protagonist, a chatelaine or something in the North of England in the early 13th C, go find me everything you can "
But for now, I have 'Syb's Map' and though it is really frustrating to have a bit cut off, it is so good to see it laid out , I think I've said before I am a bit spatially challenged so it is a whole new vista to me to see in in map form at last, and in such an 'artistic' rendition
Great work Sylvia thank you again


The appointments were for both me and my husband Sylvia. I had to go for my mouth. I have pernicious aneamia and suffer from sore ulcers as part of it, and also I had big blood blisters in the roof of my mouth, so the dentist sent me to the specialist. He examined me and said that it was all OK, and just the side effects of the Vit B12 deficiency. I have some mouth wash, and that seems to be helping. Do not have to go back again! My husbands are on going at the doctors with the heart problem and Warfarin level checks. That is all there seems to be on the calender lately. No a very social diary! Never mind, we keep going. Another one on Friday, and then one for me next week for my asthma check up. Thank you for your prayers Sylvia, you have mine too. I hope the pain is not too bad. Pain can drag you down so much, but you are still doing all the research and things like this do keep you going.
Greetings to everyone from Scotland (with sunshine!)


I have a few more places to look, and then I'd better get back down to the business of working on the Layer Wood map. I thank everybody for their notes and research, and if you run into any hints in your future readings that give a precise location within those "6 fingers" please pass it on. I'll let you know if I ever get this done, or if I hear anything concrete about any original maps.


My plan for today is to go through those rare books with all 18 Layer Wood titles, and see if any other dust jackets appear to have a map on them.
NL would be pleased - a "house" is being built next to us, and the land is being cleared this minute. It is to be an "independent living" apt. unit for 18-20 year olds (a very dangerous age in the current US economy) and my husband and I will live in it and supervise the residents. I drew a map of this entire children's home/school complex years ago for visitors and deliveries, and have to admit that the map reminds me of NL's! There is even a small lake, but not haunted as far as I know!



I forgot to mention that around our little lake there is a wooded area, and there are two tiny islands and a walking bridge.

My mouth is not too bad now. The specialist told me that it was to be expected because of my pernicious aneamia, so have to cope with it, but have mouthwash to help. I am still waiting for the endoscopy, but must say that the indigestion is not too bad. It is worse when I get stressed!
Tonight, I am taking part in a quiz at our Church, and my specialist subject is The Miraculous Healings of Jesus Christ, so I have been studying hard. I have a good knowledge of my Bible, but did not realise that some of the healings are reported differently in different books of the Bible, so have to have all of them in my head! (Hope I don't get too many "senior moments!
How has the pain been Sylvia? Hope it is not too bad.
I have posted off my addresses to you. (Now did I tell you that before!) Oh dear, Senior Moments Galore!

I'm about the same - I'm glad you're ccping!

I was thinking of putting some Layer Wood and general NL topography questions on, what do you think ?

Susan and Sylvia, I'm adding you both to my prayer list. Barbara, my friend Marjorie knows Heswall but isn't from there. Her last name was the same as that of the author of Howard's End. Ring any bell?

Questions on Layer Wood and NL topography questions would be great Barbara, or any at all. I have done some of the quiz, but did get quite a few wrong! These were on books I have not read for ages. I must brush up on my NL!

Well Sylvia, the evening went very well, but I did not do very well on my "Healings of Jesus" questions, simply because some of the questions were no specifically on His healings, they were very strange and I could not even understand them. One was asking of the different categories of the Miracles, and the answer he wanted was Resurrection. I cannot even remember the others! By that time my brain went blank! Plus that the question master's accent was broad and I had to strain to understand him! I answered all the questions on the Healings, but there was not many, because the other questions were so long and you only have two minutes! I felt bad about it, like I had let God down. I would not have minded if my subject had not been Biblical and in our church! But I had so many people saying that they did not understand them either and felt bad for me. In fact, our Minister said he would not have liked to have been in my place! Anyhow, I did OK on the general knowledge, but only got 4 marks for my specialist subject. We had six competitors and one was a young lass of about 10 whose answered questions on Harry Potter and she did very well! We were all pleased for her!
I was pleased that my husband came along. Often he can't, it depends how he feels on the day, but he was not too bad, and people were pleased to see him.
Sunshine here today in Scotland, and tomorrow it will be four years since we moved here!

Barbara, I knew you were the quizzer for many of the NQ questions! Sure, bring on some Layer Wood questions. Maybe some of our placement puzzles will emerge from the answers.
I am like Susan in having not read NL's books for so long. I just began reading them again this past January. What used to take me a week to read now takes a month. And I tried reading one in every room but discovered that my old brain can't take more than two at once!
Susan, the question master sounds like those teachers we've all known whose motive was to "trip up" and humiliate. Hey, even your minister saw what you were up against! I say, "Brave mental jousting!"

Susan and Sylvia, I'm adding you both to my prayer list. Barbara, my friend Marjorie knows Heswall but isn't from there. Her last name w..."
Thanks Mary - sorry to be thick, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by ringing any bell .I Googled the name , but could not see any connections .


BTW I sent another ( yes another !) email to the online publishers of that Orlando Project. I feel like there is a black hole in there marked Norah Lofts. I shall not give in, however ....

Can't remember if I told you I had mailed off my addresses to you Sylvia "another senior moment"!
I must get on and finish reading "Jassy" and add more to the map details.
Sylvia wrote: "We are looking here for descriptions and locations of any town, village, manor house, body of water, castle, titled acreage, etc. in the Layer Wood/Baildon area.
Distances between, or which prop..."
I don't recall a map in any of my Norah Lofts books but I just went to the kitchen to get my tray which is a map of ancient Suffolk. I lived outside Wickham Market on the tank road. I worked at RAF Woodbridge. What can I tell you from this map?
Distances between, or which prop..."
I don't recall a map in any of my Norah Lofts books but I just went to the kitchen to get my tray which is a map of ancient Suffolk. I lived outside Wickham Market on the tank road. I worked at RAF Woodbridge. What can I tell you from this map?
Sylvia wrote: "The doctors of the world will be uniting against our encouragement of "greasy bread"! I also had to LOL (would you believe I had to find out what that meant?) when you mentioned a Texan believing ..."
Sort of a displaced Texan but really an Air Force brat. I lived in every major city and lots of small Texas towns. The bluebonnets will be blooming now and the bluebells in Suffolk also. I picked lots of them there (both places).
Alice
Sort of a displaced Texan but really an Air Force brat. I lived in every major city and lots of small Texas towns. The bluebonnets will be blooming now and the bluebells in Suffolk also. I picked lots of them there (both places).
Alice
Barbara wrote: "Mountain oysters!! LOL !
Gravy to me is the liquid part Sylvia, like a thin brown sauce. Do you say "a gravy' meaning a particular type of dish?
I think suet is pretty much a thing of the pa..."
Here suet is something that is fed to birds in winter. Right now winter is rolling in and we are out of birdseed.
Gravy to me is the liquid part Sylvia, like a thin brown sauce. Do you say "a gravy' meaning a particular type of dish?
I think suet is pretty much a thing of the pa..."
Here suet is something that is fed to birds in winter. Right now winter is rolling in and we are out of birdseed.
Sylvia wrote: "Barbara, you found some great information, some order to the locations. I need to redraw my first map, and need bigger paper! I have this vague picture in my mind of that original map and don't r..."
When I lived outside Wickham Market off the A-12 I drove up to Saxmundham where I ate fish and chips (plaice). It was incredible and you get NOTHING like it here in the states. Cracker Barrel almost makes the grade on Friday nights but not really!
When I lived outside Wickham Market off the A-12 I drove up to Saxmundham where I ate fish and chips (plaice). It was incredible and you get NOTHING like it here in the states. Cracker Barrel almost makes the grade on Friday nights but not really!
Lady Jane took me to pick bluebells in an ancient forest. I was just looking at the pictures the other day. The oaks there were 500 years old she told me. It was near Watisden where the whole village died of the Black Plague. We were near the coast. I also used to love the pub at Aldeburgh. It was very old but not as old as The Swan ...I am guessing NL based one of her books on it.

di9d you live in Suffolk as a child or as an "Army brat"? That is, are you a native Texan or a displaced Englishwman?! I've heard a lot about those bluebells. We have a Texan working here (since 1998) who talks about the fields of blue in Texas in the spring.
Yes, maybe your Suffolk map can answer a question for me. Since NL based Baildon on Bury St. Edmunds (although she does use the real Bury in some of her books), I would like to know the names of any rivers that might circle around Bury, or possibly flow northward and then circle toward the sea. I know that sounds confusing. So far my idea of the Layer Wood map is that, first, Baildon is located just nnortheast of Bury, and that second, Baildon is south west of the long oval (with roughly a six fingered shape) that is Layer Wood. I feel fairly certain that Knight's Acre and Intake are directly west of Layer Wood, and the river Wren circles around that end. I still haven't figured out the source of it or how far it goes, but right now I am assuming that it flows east toward the sea and possibly Bywater. Has anybody run across a river mentioned in Bywater?
As you can all tell, I haven't really made much progress on the map. I continue to plow through the Town House Trilogy for now, and if we never do find the original map, it may take years for us to make an accurate one ourselves.
Thanks, Canary Alice, for all the comments. That Suffolk tray sounds like a treasure. Your mention of the pubs reminds me that on a site for Bury St. E. there is a photo of a tiny pub on a st. corner that is the smallest one in England.
Hi Sylvia, I am an Air Force brat! My father was Air Force and camped out near Framlingham Castle (Suffolk) in WWII and my son is also Air Force (pilot). I was blessed to get to live for a year in Suffolk in 1975. I was working on base as a civilian at RAF Woodbridge and one day when I walked into the library there was a copy of The House at Sunset prominently displayed so I got it. I was amazed that a writer could write about an old house and make it so fascinating. I was uninterested in old houses until that book and living in England. I wish I was a displaced Englishwoman but my ancestors came over here a long time ago. I am mostly English based on my genealogy names and I felt right at home in Suffolk! I did not feel that Baildon was Bury St. Edmunds as when I was there (1975) Bury was too big IMO. However, as Barbara can tell you I have lots of weird ideas about NL books....flights of very wild imagination! I lived about 15 kilometers from the coast and I feel Baildon was closer like I was.
My Suffolk tray map shows 3 rivers going in...I do not recall them altho there was a good creek I walked by lots into Wickham Market. The largest one at the bottom appears to be the Stour (old writing). It would be the boundary between Essex and Suffolk I guess. (per this old map) The next one north which branches into it is Orwell and I went to Orwell keep a few times..super old. Between these two is Samford Hun. Above the Orwell is Colnes Hun. What does Hun mean? Lady Jane took me to her father's house and he enjoyed telling me about the Viking ship found in the river by their amazing home. He had a Rolls Royce in the garage. I felt very intimidated but also honored and fascinated. Maybe Hun is a Viking word? The next river up was the Deben which ran by Woodbridge where an unexploded bomb was in the marsh there and then it ran on to Wickham Market and just south of our rental house. I cannot find Bury St Edmunds on this old Suffolk tray so my hubby is looking for me with his magnifying glass. These rivers do look like fingers going inland.
I am not sure where the ancient woods was located but it was near the coast. The oaks were so old and made Jane think of Robin Hood. The bluebells smelled heavenly. The bluebonnets also smell wonderful in Texas.
Hubby was just asking me what Hun means?
He found Bury, its much father in than I expected. I drove there to find a rental house for a professor for the summer months. It looks so small on this map, no wonder I never found it before.
Will close for now and ponder a minute or two then try again. Blurry vision,
Alice
My Suffolk tray map shows 3 rivers going in...I do not recall them altho there was a good creek I walked by lots into Wickham Market. The largest one at the bottom appears to be the Stour (old writing). It would be the boundary between Essex and Suffolk I guess. (per this old map) The next one north which branches into it is Orwell and I went to Orwell keep a few times..super old. Between these two is Samford Hun. Above the Orwell is Colnes Hun. What does Hun mean? Lady Jane took me to her father's house and he enjoyed telling me about the Viking ship found in the river by their amazing home. He had a Rolls Royce in the garage. I felt very intimidated but also honored and fascinated. Maybe Hun is a Viking word? The next river up was the Deben which ran by Woodbridge where an unexploded bomb was in the marsh there and then it ran on to Wickham Market and just south of our rental house. I cannot find Bury St Edmunds on this old Suffolk tray so my hubby is looking for me with his magnifying glass. These rivers do look like fingers going inland.
I am not sure where the ancient woods was located but it was near the coast. The oaks were so old and made Jane think of Robin Hood. The bluebells smelled heavenly. The bluebonnets also smell wonderful in Texas.
Hubby was just asking me what Hun means?
He found Bury, its much father in than I expected. I drove there to find a rental house for a professor for the summer months. It looks so small on this map, no wonder I never found it before.
Will close for now and ponder a minute or two then try again. Blurry vision,
Alice
No luck with Hun. I do not see any rivers around Bury St. Edmunds. Just off the top of my head I prefer Ipswitch as Baildon or even Woodbridge! I see Aldeborough as being where The Sailors Rest was. Aldeborough which on this map is spelled Aldborough runs out on a strange peninsula which curves back toward the land, two rivers are there (small ones). One is Orford Haven but the one running straight north ......I cannot see the name of it. Looks like it might be Bridg! The peninsula is called Slaugden Vale and seems to be covered with trees. I must be wrong as close to the coast there were no trees. Around Wickham Market were huge pines and our house had dozens of apple trees. I could see this area as being part of A Wayside Tavern (one of my favs). Aldeborough was a smuggling area. I used to go to the Crosskeys Pub there. There were lots of pink houses as pink is very popular in Suffolk and I love it. My friend and I used to go down to Felixstowe on the weekends which sloped down sharply to the sea. Some more old areas just north are Wilforde Hun and Plomesgate Hun. Plomesgate Hun is just inland from Aldborough and is where Watisden was located where everyone died of plague. Its on a tiny creek (looks like) called Thelatet. Its all most baffling.
Barbara wrote: "I am probably the one most responsible for NL questions of the NeverEnding Quiz . It is a pleasant challenge trying to think of ones that are sensible and answerable and have some enjoyment att..."
Great idea, please send them to me.
Great idea, please send them to me.

I will try and do some geog. questions this afternoon
Thanks! It was very interesting studying the Suffolk map again. I have a regular paper one somewhere. I wish this map were dated but it only says: Suffolk by Rob Morden. I am so glad I bought it long ago.
Looking forward to questions.
Alice
Looking forward to questions.
Alice

Sylvia wrote: "Great descriptions of Suffolk, Canary! I picture Baildon as fairly close to the sea, too, since the pack ponies traveled there with the wool every day, and many in the location of Layer Wood went ..."
I am very surprised that she said it was based on Bury as it just seemed too big to me when I was there (1975). I am glad you feel it was closer to the coast line too. Feel very baffled,
Alice
I am very surprised that she said it was based on Bury as it just seemed too big to me when I was there (1975). I am glad you feel it was closer to the coast line too. Feel very baffled,
Alice

Just a note or two re Layer Wood Sylvia. When Maude makes her long ride from to Knight's Acre at Intake from Stordford ( which is just the big manor house or castle , I think, not a village) she gets to Baildon , leaves the town by way of "the Saltgate, then the road, partially sheltered by trees of Layer Wood. Turn into the lane ,down the water splash (must mean a river here? ) ..turn onto the track; the priest's house, and then...Knights Acre" (p235)
I know Moyidan is 5 miles from Knight's Acre, but I'm not sure in what direction yet.
You must be fair mazed with all this info.......

Hello everyone! hope you are all keeping OK. We have had snow again this morning here in Scotland. It has been a very bad winter. It has gone now, but more threatened for tomorrow.


Please don't worry (any of you) about the postage. It won't be very much, and I'm so happy to do this little thing for you. Also, my husband managed to get a copy into a friend's hands who has a scanner, so if she gets the copy emailed to me, I can email it on to any who want to receive it that way. The drawing (or copy of a painting) is dark, but the print used in naming all the locations is in a very fine hand. I hope the words will be clear on the ones that are emailed. I feel very childish in admitting to you that I had Rychard make me an extra copy to color! I now feel it very likely that there are more maps out there than we ever imagined, because why would this one "house" or village book be chosen to get a map on the cover, and none of the others? From the wording of his letter, didn't you get the impression that her son didn't know there were maps, or possibly didn't realize how important all those locations would be to the reader?
I have another letter ready to go out to him, basically a "deepest appreciation" letter, and I wanted to ask him so many things, but I don't want to overwhelm him and have this door shut to us. I would love to ask him how many of her books he has read!
Barbara, your research on the book followed right along. For now, the information I need the most is a clear cut direction of whether Clevely is on the north or south side of Layer Wood. That tantalizing little right hand border of the woods on this map has arrows pointing straight into those haunted woods and marked "to Nettleton and Muchanger", but it still doesn't give us an idea of the location on the big map. Also I couldn't find the name of the river. Barbara, could you skim through and look for its name? The only river I've run across around Layer Wood is "Wren" in Knight's Acre. I am growing more positive that Knight's Acre is on the far left end of L.W. ("the last outpost") and the Wren borders that property. So many possibilities.