All Ears Audiobooks discussion
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The Case for Listening...
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When my twin daughters were riding around with me more during the summer between 2nd and 3rd grade, we listened to the Artemas Foul series. They enjoyed it very much, and obviously those books are not written for an end of second grade reading level which they both had at that time. They both enjoy books and read without being told, so reading isn't a particular problem for them, they were just still young at the time. At the end of second grade, their tested reading level was right on track for their age. When they were tested at the beginning of third grade, both of them had jumped up to 5th grade level reading over the summer. I can't say with certainty that listening to books above their reading level was the cause of that, but their reading comprehension skills obviously improved enormously. Reading comprehension is frequently the limiting factor when children are learning to read. They can decode just fine, but ask them what they read and they can't remember. They work too hard at decoding at first to really process at the same time.
That being said, there is still a discussion of the appropriateness of listening to books vs. reading them in our household. I think as long a children are able, both have benefits and both should be practiced.
When my daughter was little i enrolled her in a reading library program where for a small monthly fee we received 3-4 books and 1-2 audio tapes to go with the books. These were typical kid's picture books, like Amelia Bedelia, and Madeline, and Stephen Kellogg books. Outfitted with her own tape recorder she would sit for hours "reading" the books with the tape playing along. She was 3-4 at the time. By the time she started school she had an unusually large vocabulary and was able to read early readers without help. I won't say the tapes did all that - being an only child around a lot of adults does a lot to increase vocabulary - but she also was unafraid to read out loud, even when she stumbled, and she thought reading aloud was a perfectly natural thing to do - didn't everybody do that? As an adult I must admit I was one of the audiobook doubters - reading is important. And it is still important to me, but there is a real pleasure to listening to a good audiobook. There are a few books that i would prefer to read - especially those with sketches like, Green Angel or The Graveyard Book or The Book Thief. But there are plenty i'd never read on my own, or read during the day when i can comprehend them better, without having them in audio format. Einstein: His Life and Universe and Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals are two great examples. My just before bedtime reading slot is not a good time to digest these kind of books.
I think a combination of reading and audiobooks is a very good thing for both adults and kids!
Donna's story reminds me of the small books that we had that had LPs (records for those who are on the younger side) that went along with the books. They were the classic children's stories brothers Grimm etc. There would be a beep or something to tell you to turn the page. I also remember that my favorite book on an LP were the Just So stories of I believe were written by Rudyard Kipling. Those stories transported you to another world and the music and narrative only added to the experience. We would listen to them over and over again. That I remember them fondly many decades later points to the impact that they had on my childhood.
Tara - yes! i remember those too! we used to have them at our school library and would get to listen to them if we were "good". Kipling did write the Just So stories and i can still recite a large part of "The Elephant's Child" i read it so many times myself and then to my daughter... the elephant child with its 'satiable curiosity and the crocodile on the banks of the great gray-green greasy Limpopo river all set about with fever trees... and looking around these "promiscuous parts". They were soooo fun to read aloud and listen to!
What fun memories!
Mod
Another thought about 'reading vs. listening'... My 6th grade son has problems with the mechanics of writing. When he writes letters or numbers, he still has to concentrate on the formation of each character. (And yes, we have tried Legos. We have more Legos in our house than at Legoland - or at least it feels that way!). His school has a laptop program so he can type all of his assignments, except for math. No one tells him that he didn't really write his assignments because he used a computer. The writing composition is his - he is just able to handle the mechanics better on a computer. Now I completely agree that in our world, reading is an essential skill. But once that skill is mastered, does it make a difference whether we read or listen to a book? Isn't the comprehension and lessons learned from a story more important?
Wow...a discussion group that starts by mentioning my essay and uses its title...what an honor. And it's great to read all the insightful comments.Audio and text are different, but why does that have to mean that one is better? Or worse?
Audio does, however, have the certain advatage of being first. Before we could read and write, we told and listened to stories. Tara's feeling of being transported...to another world" as we listen is one that goes way, way back in our DNA. There's undeniable power in that.
As Julie points out, if "assistive" technology means someone reaching his or her full potential, why shouldn't they be able to use it?
Finally, if you haven't, listen to Jack Nicholson's reading of some of the "Just So" stories. His voice saying "the great gray-green greasy Limpopo river" is just delicious.
Lars wrote: "Wow...a discussion group that starts by mentioning my essay and uses its title...what an honor. And it's great to read all the insightful comments.Audio and text are different, but why does th..."
I totally agree that it isn't an either or proposition. My favorite Just So story was "The Cat who walked by himself and all things were alike to him." - Jack Nicholson would be great at reading these stories. The way the stories roll off the tongue, and the cadence of the story points to the rich, ancient oral traditions that exist all around the world, that unfortunately is quickly being lost.
I was at the Parliament of World's Religions last year in Australia and one of the focuses was indigenous people. And when they talked, you felt the sense of spaciousness and art of the spoken word that can't be experienced as much in the written form. It was a form of transmission of much more than the story itself. There is a role for both.
Having said that, I generally remember more of the written word vs spoken word, unless I am unsually moved or engaged in the audio book. I primarily listen to books rather than read them, since I am so busy in my life and books whether read or lisetened to are a source of enjoyment/recreation for me. And if I waited until I had time to read.........you know the rest.
Tara wrote: "I was at the Parliament of World's Religions last year in Australia and one of the focuses was indigenous people."This made me think of the Illiad and the Odyssey, which were NOT written down by Homer (if there actually was one such person). Why? Because he could not write, nor read. The stories were part of an oral tradition, transcribed long after their composition. In fact, Socrates worried about what was to him the new invention of writing, because people would lose what you so beautifully identify as "the sense of spaciousness and art of the spoken word."
Mod
Thanks for sharing your story, Jocelyn! What a moment of pride it must have been for you when you saw how they improved over that one summer. And now all 3 of your kids are such passionate readers!
Mod
Our species evolved with the skills to communicate with each other. For all but the last 2000 years this communication was done verbally through the telling of stories. That is what we are natural at. That is why great story tellers (and public speakers) capture our attention so easily. We evolved to talk and listen, but as our stories grew in detail and length they became limited by our memories (which is more of a challenge as we age).
The development of alphabets and writing removed this limitation. But as we moved to the written word our vocabulary had to grow as we realized that the subtblty of the spoken word was not accurately captured in our written words (the spoken word cantains more information per word than the written word.) So we suffer a loss of fidelity when we write and read (as most of us have expereinced with mis-understood emails).
The advancement of technology (the printing press) enabled civilization further growth as we could develop and remember (through written memory) more and longer stories. But it is interesting to think how things might be different today if the tape recorder was the technology we invented before the printing press. Would we be sending voice mails to each other instead of emails, would audiobooks be the dominant form of stores, not paper. And all because the spoken word is more complex to capture and reproduce than the written word.
Think of any of the great speaches throughout history. Are they any less meaningful or valuable because they were delivered orally rather than in writing? Because we heard them instead of reading them? Is there less value in the conversations we have with our friends because we speak and listen instead of writing to each other? No, they are actually richer and more valuable.
The fundamental part of a story is it's content, meaning, and information, it's words and ideas, not the medium it is presented in. Both reading and listening are important to us and both add to our ability to learn, share, and enjoy. I'll let the readers-only believe what they want, but I know I feel more of what the author is thinking when I hear him speak his words to me. The real argument will come in the future with the next technology advancement when we are able to communicate our thoughts directly to each other. That's when we will miss having that SEND button to push before thinking that thought.
Mod
Lee at All Ears wrote: "Great discussion topic." Great comments, Lee!
good points Lee! Lately the only time i feel obliged to read a book instead of listen to it is if the book comes illustrated. I'm currently reading The Graveyard Book and each sketch is a treat that adds to the story. The sketches in the Book Thief look so interesting I'm looking forward to reading it too! There's so many kids books - not pictures books, but regular kid's lit- i can think of that have amazing illustrations that add tremendously to the story. Harriet the Spy... Green Angel... Winnie the Pooh...
I think artwork adds much to a book and it's a shame to lose it when listening to the book. Wish there was some way to include it!!
An interesting thing - Laura Esquivel, who wrote "Like Water for Chocolate" tried to bridge the gap of art, sound and written word with her book "The Law of Love". The story was dreadful, especially after such an amazing book as her first, but it was interesting because it was written partially as a regular novel, partially as a graphic novel and had it's own soundtrack that was included with the book along with instructions on when to play it. I've never seen another author attempt this and have often wondered if it would have worked better with a better story.
okay i've just discovered where listening instead of reading is driving me crazy. I'm listening to Sandra Dallas' The Chili Queen and there's a big plot twist that I think i've solved but i can't jump ahead to verify... All i'd have to see is one little word... and now i have to wait until Dallas gets around to revealing... ARRRGH!! LOL!
Donna wrote: "...there's a big plot twist that I think i've solved but i can't jump ahead to verify..."A definite advantage of print, not to mention looking back to review and check, and finding your place when you get lost far more easily. Actually, despite the blithe put-downs of audio books you sometimes hear, in many ways listening requires more focus and attention than print, don't you think?
Lars wrote: "Actually, despite the blithe put-downs of audio books you sometimes hear, in many ways listening requires more focus and attention than print, don't you think? "In some ways yes, in some ways no. When i read it has to be pretty much all i do, where as if i listen to a book i can do some other things too. Tonight i finished off Chili Queen while sorting books for the book sale. Listening requires that you have to carry more of the book around in your head though - which is much like traditional storytelling. And if you drift it's tough to go back and catch things again..where as with a book it's really easy to reread a segment.
Lars - what do you think of listening to audiobooks as practice to really listening to people? As a culture we're losing our ability to really listen - the radio and tv go on in the background and we ignore it, people talk all around us and we ignore it, and then we expect our kids to listen when we talk to them - when they have no good reason or role model for listening. I was brought up that when someone speaks, you listen, but that's not the case today. random thought :)
Donna wrote: "When i read it has to be pretty much all i do, where as if i listen to a book i can do some other things too."I'd say in some ways yes, in some ways no for this, too. I can do things that are somewhat mindless, like cleaning or cooking (and of course, the big one...driving), but only if they don't make too much noise and stay consistent. I've learned to turn off the CD player if I'm coming up to an interchange I'm not sure about, or if someone cuts in front of me. I might have a hard time sorting books because I'd get into the books.
I definitely think I have learned to listen more attentively to others by listening to audio books, and that this is a skill that is increasingly undervalued in our society.
My parents lived in the World War 2 era, so I was lucky enough to have heard of life without much of our present day technology. But they did have the radio programs that they loved listening to on a regular basis. When my mom had to give up reading she listened to books on tape and she couldn't get enough. In truth, who doesn't want a story read to them?
Another case for listening: audio tours at museum exhibits. At least a fourth of the exhibit attendees at the National Geographic Terra Cotta Warriors listened to a hand held audio tour as they viewed the exhibit. It added to the experience of the show. This is just another way of learning or enjoying a show, like listening to a good narrator read a book.
4th-8th wrote: "Another case for listening: audio tours at museum exhibits. At least a fourth of the exhibit attendees at the National Geographic Terra Cotta Warriors listened to a hand held audio tour as they vie..."I did this at the LACMA (Los Angeles) exhibit on Pompeii last year and it was fabulous. I got so much more out of that show because of the narration!
All Ears Audiobooks
Books mentioned in this topic
Einstein: His Life and Universe (other topics)The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals (other topics)
Madeline (other topics)
The Book Thief (other topics)
The Graveyard Book (other topics)
More...
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN READING AND LISTENING TO A BOOK?!?! Audiobooks are such a pampering experience - a treat for the ears and the mind. It's time to give them the recognition they deserve. And as Lars says 'Let’s show some respect for the audio book as its own medium.' Let's hear it for audiobooks!