Second Wind Publishing discussion
featured discussions
>
How Does One Handle a Discussion That Gets Out of Hand?
date
newest »
newest »
message 1:
by
Pat
(new)
Dec 27, 2009 09:25PM
Mod
reply
|
flag
I admit I really only lurk on these discussion threads and don't comment (mea culpa, I have no excuse). Is there a facilitator to the discussion threads, or are we all on the honor system? If there is a facilitator, they should privately chat with the argumentative one to see if they can either find a better way to co-exist peacefully in the group or, failing that, leave the group entirely. Without a facilitator, I only see two options: one is to ignore them and hope their combativeness doesn't scare people away, and the other is to mercilessly gang up on them until they leave in a huff. Or, as Groucho would say, in a minute and a huff. I'm half-joking about the last option, but I've seen it happen in other groups. It was messy, but successful.
First time, A warning.Second time, A suspension from the group.
Third time, expulsion from group.
These groups are here for ALL of our enjoyment and it's not much fun when a select few browbeat other posts or in any way bully other posters.
Sometimes they are not aware of how they are coming across. That's why you give them a chance to be good.
Goodreads does have rules of posting/etiquette (I believe). You could also refer the person to those.
Also, as the group creator or moderator, you have the option of defining your own rules and the power to ban anyone violating them.
Fortunately, this kind of behavior doesn't crop up too often and it is easily dealt with, although unpleasant.
Unfortunately, this kind of behavior DOES crop up occasionally and it needs to be dealt with quickly before it sours the entire group.
Goodreads covers this (kind of) under section #2. User Content, on the following page;
http://www.goodreads.com/about/terms
Pat, I don't know if anyone has drop out of your group, because of my stand on my opinion in the Which typos and quirks are unforgivable? thread.
Maybe this new thread is just a thread in general or maybe this thread was made, because people have left the group, because of my opinion or threaten to leave the group, because of my opinion.
I like to converse with people and I truly believe in agreeing to disagree. I am not going to lie, if someone come at me stupid, I will stand tall to them and it never fails that someone come at me stupid. It's nothing for me to get banned or leave a group.
I don't join groups to gain friends.
I'm an adult and I don't have to prove myself to anyone.
This is a public group and I was invited to join this group. Why? I really don't know. I guess, it's because I am a writer. But since I am just a plain writer, who doesn't care to get published. I am going to leave the group.
A brain is useless, if a brain can't speak.
Wow, what's been going on in here? LOL.Your best bet is to band or delete someone if you feel they aren't contributing and only causing problems. I hardly pop in here so I didn't know this was going on but it happens on many sites and groups. And yes it will cause group members to leave if it becomes a huge distraction. I've neglected some groups that I really liked because folks couldn't behave themselves like grown ups. It's ridiculous and embarrassing. I've seen groups run and created by teenagers who act better than some so-called adults. You also have to make sure that the person in question is really doing things just to cause trouble or if that's just their personality. Some people are outspoken and may come off as confrontational when they might not intend to be. That's the problem with Internet communication, you can't see or hear the person so you aren't always sure how to take their words or what they say.
If I was the moderator having this problem I would handle it in private with the person and send them an inbox email. I would tell them my concerns and give them a warning that if it continues I would delte them. If things don't change from there then you know that person is just trying to cause trouble. If they really are in a group to be beneficial they will listen to the mod's concerns. But in private, is the best way to do this and it keeps conflict out of the group.
Best Wishes!
http://www.stacy-deanne.net
Pat Bertram wrote: "A couple of times someone has commandeered a discussion thread in this group, arguing with everyone who comments. I've suggested that people just ignore the situation, but is that the best way to h..."I've been pretty well ignoring the whole thing. There's a difference of opinion and I must say I agree with one party and the second party does not understand how to express himself clearly. I will not go further than that, will be waiting until everything settles down. If it comes to inappropriate language and slander, then I would suggest a cooling down period perhaps removing both parties for a short period of time. I say both parties because it has evolved into a two-part show. In the meantime I can live with it. That's my 2 cents worth plus about 6 cent HST by January!
When any blog topic results in a pissing contest, I find the approach I took with my two-year-old works for me. I ignore it. If it's ongoing over the entire blog and not just a single topic, I end up ignoring the blog as well.
Pat Bertram wrote: "A couple of times someone has commandeered a discussion thread in this group, arguing with everyone who comments. I've suggested that people just ignore the situation, but is that the best way to h..."
I don't know how you correct this, but I will say I stopped reading and commenting because of it. Also, I have seen a person or two act very arrogant, knowing more than any one else. Those may talk all they want--I won't listen. Celia
I don't know how you correct this, but I will say I stopped reading and commenting because of it. Also, I have seen a person or two act very arrogant, knowing more than any one else. Those may talk all they want--I won't listen. Celia
Pat Bertram wrote: "A couple of times someone has commandeered a discussion thread in this group, arguing with everyone who comments."
Ignoring flames works well with some, but too subtle for many--remember, flamers are almost by definition too self-centered to care--or even "get"--the opinions of others. It's what makes them so hard to deal with. An escalating approach: 1. ignore 2, warns, 3. expulsion. I don't know if moderators have the power to do this. If they don't, they should.
I just ignore comments I don't like, I don't comment to get backlash from people I just make a comment. I am not on here that much so I don't really read that many comments or make that many comments..I do hope you figure out how to handle things.
A set of group posting rules might help; a list of what behavior will be tolerated and what won't be tolerated.And I would also like to say, in response to Arch's comment, there is a difference between expressing an opinion and just being rude. Adults know this difference.
Pat Bertram wrote: "A couple of times someone has commandeered a discussion thread in this group, arguing with everyone who comments. I've suggested that people just ignore the situation, but is that the best way to h..."I would say ignore the person if he/she gets on your nerves, but if they got "nasty" then they should not be allowed to contribute. I have not found any problems here as yet, and I do enjoy a good "debate". I haven't seen any foul language or anything to warrant exclusion and I think we're all entitled to our opinions, as long as they don't hurt other's feelings.
Differences of opinion should be welcomed and I enjoy a good debate as much as the next person, but when it becomes inflammatory and the language (even the abbreviations) becomes nasty with name calling and personal attacks involved then it shouldn't be ignored, it should be dealt with by the facilitator of the discussion. You can sometimes hope that the "debate" runs out of steam, but in this case it didn't - it went on and on and on. There are general rules that govern online discussions on any site and the information in Brett's post is pretty much the general standard that could be used for any discussion on any site.
I guess I haven't read most of the thread you all are talking about for in what I've read, I haven't seen any bad language, so if I've missed something, I guess I really can't be qualified to comment, but I will say that I do not like bad language or anyone trashing anyone else, so that shouldn't be tolerated.
Gayle wrote: "I admit I really only lurk on these discussion threads and don't comment (mea culpa, I have no excuse). Is there a facilitator to the discussion threads, or are we all on the honor system? If there..."Good idea gayle--the facilitator for the group or thread shuld speak to the members in question
As one other member said WOW. What HAS been going on? People can express their opinions as long as they are not confrontational. After all, we are all supposed to be adults. To me, the avenues that have been suggested seem to be the way to go. I would first initiate a warning that the conversationalist is being too opinionated before doing anything drastic. I do believe a warning should be the first step, and see what happens then. But that's just me.
I agree about the warning first, ignoring the person doesn't seem to work and ganging up on those people hasn't worked either...take another approach by warning the person privately, then publicly and then boot them out of the group or explain how to block the person. I went back and read the threads with one such person and was part of a discussion with another such person. Where it is nice to see differing opinions, these people were downright vicious and rude. Something has to be done to stop the madness.
Rhonda wrote: "I agree about the warning first, ignoring the person doesn't seem to work and ganging up on those people hasn't worked either...take another approach by warning the person privately, then publicly ..."THATS WHAT I THINK TOO, IT IS WHAT WE DO FOR MY OTHER GROUPS TOO REAL AND ON LINE.
I think it should be handled the same way that townsfolk in the Old West dealt with troublesome outlaws who were too tough for the local sheriff. You send for someone who's meaner, tougher and faster than the bully, and have him run the villain off the thread. I have encountered several of these Clint Eastwoods of literature on Goodreads and Library Thing, and if all the above well-meaning efforts fail, I say, send the telegram.
Pat,I agree with Gayle, if there’s a facilitator/moderator I think the facilitator/moderator should send a private email (or private Goodreads message) to the person. Brett’s right too, sometimes people don’t comprehend how they’re coming across. Posting etiquette guidelines should be helpful. In fact, you can post in the guidelines that everyone is asked to constructively share their thoughts/opinions and to respect one another.
I personally believe that a person incapable or unwilling to respect others (including those they disagree with) should refrain from sharing their thoughts/opinions if what they wish to share is destructive, inflammatory, or rude comments. There is a mature way to disagree with someone that does not resort to offensive name calling, discourteous putdowns, and curt impoliteness.
Pat, you are fair as a summer day. I’m sorry to learn this problem is brewing here. I personally support you 100% and believe that most of us agree that sharing is fine---just do so with a respectful tone and with a constructive reason that will be beneficial to all concerned.
If that doesn’t work I vote that we make Alex’s our literary “White Hat” cowboy. You (our sheriff) just tell Alex what the trouble is and he kin take care of the villain folks fer ya.
Best, DB
Funny one, Alex! Good question, Pat. I admit I can't resist tuning in when 2 or 3 get going on tangents to see what they have to say. Sometimes it's pretty lively, other times it's just plain boring because they keep repeating themselves. I have felt like jumping in and saying, "Okay, you have said that eight times now--enough!", but what good would that do?
If a person is not willing to listen to what another says, it is not a discussion or debate, it is just individuals spouting out monologues, hoping to convince/convert others to their way of thinking--like they have to be the last guy standing with the last word and seriously, and I wonder why?
We are all entitled to our thoughts and opinions and if we share our experiences with others, hopefully to be helpful and save the some time or grief, that's a good thing. I love these threads when I learn new things about the writing industry, or about other authors and their experiences. What to do about the arguing few? If no one responds--as difficult as that is when you want to defend yourself--they will get the message and give up. Hopefully.
Pat Bertram wrote: "A couple of times someone has commandeered a discussion thread in this group, arguing with everyone who comments. I've suggested that people just ignore the situation, but is that the best way to h..."Pat,
I agree with the majority of the people who responded to this. I would talk to the offender privately via email & use the 'three strikes & your out' rule. I'm the moderator of an online critique group & I have the option to ban offenders. Does Goodreads have this feature? Maybe you could use it after you use the 'three strikes' rule.
i think a private email works best. i like reading different viewpoints as long as the comments are made tastefully without including personal attacks. if a private email does not work then perhaps it is best to just sever ties with the antagonist.
Say the word, DB, and I’ll come packing my rhetoric.
Mod
Pat Bertram wrote: "A couple of times someone has commandeered a discussion thread in this group, arguing with everyone who comments. I've suggested that people just ignore the situation, but is that the best way to h..."Hello Pat. Big time lurker here, so don't feel entitled to say. But think this is often a problem in groups. A quiet word on the side to the individual(s) from the moderator is sometimes warranted. We hate for feelings to be hurt, but also for other members to leave.
In my opinion, a good moderator should contact this person in private and suggest that he or she has been dominating a given conversation and ask for restraint. If ego is involved, there's not much you can do except expect the person to become offended. However it is my guess that it will not be the first time. We are, after all, expressing our opinions rather than convincing board members.In this kind of open forum, it is perfectly acceptable, and perhaps desirable, to have puerile comments along with the erudite ones. One has the freedom to smile, roll one's eyes, or just, perhaps, frown and shake one's head. Still, as someone famous once said, being right is a terminal illness. Self preservation, especially for writers, begins in not taking oneself too seriously.
I think as long as something doesn't roll into personal attacks then it's fine. There's a difference with disagreeing and agreeing with respect, then when simple threads turn into attacking others and name calling. I think we all might agree that shouldn't be acceptable. There's no need for such behavior and when this happens, I wouldn't blame mods for taking certain actions against folks who behave this way. The better of the entire group is what's important.Also, if someone is getting harrassed in their inbox by a person that happens to be in a group with them, they should definitely either tell the mods or report it to Goodreads. Just because it's happening through your inbox doesn't mean it's not a situation for mods of the group to deal with. We need to look at the bigger picture. Sometimes things can't be taken lightly. I've seen harrassment on groups turn into cyberstalking and it gets very nasty. I've known some people who had arguments with people on one site, then the person they were fighting with ended up chasing them from site to site, group to group, harassing them posting deflamatory things about them. I know of one lady who had it out with a person in a group and the other person ended up putting the lady's address on the Internet!!!! Before these people could realize it, things became a HUGE problem and got out of hand. Sometimes the police have to be involved.
The scary truth is that we don't know who we are speaking to over the Internet. Some people are plain crazy and others are mentally instable. That's is why I don't argue with folks back and forth. I say my opinion and if they want to be nasty to me, I let it go. Going back and forth can be dangerous because you never know how far the person will take it on the other end. I also have to carry myself in a certain way being a published author. Authors get targeted all the time by people posting negative reviews of their books (out of personal spite) or trying to hurt the author's reputation. So it's definitely not worth it to me to argue with someone in a group. I'm cautious with how I conduct myself over the net. We all should be.
Can't we all just get along? LOL!
Best Wishes!
http://www.stacy-deanne.net
I've been in particular groups, not on Goodreads where I've had to leave a group because of this type of behavior because everyone chose to ignore what was going on. This type of thing cannot be ignored. The best solution is to warn first and then suspend for a period of time and then expulsion if it continues.
It makes everyone in the group feel uncomfortable when this type of thing goes on.It's one thing to give an honest opinion but quite another when someone feels they're being harassed.
Such an interesting topic. I am new to this arena for the very reason of the vagaries and tangents as well as the anonymity of the internet. Agreed, you and be anyone on-line and you have no idea who you are really dealing with as well. I've stayed out of conversations and groups for that reason. My exception to goodreads is that it appeals to me in on the whole: books, writers, readers and I have see little of what launched this controversy, much to my happiness.A moderator who can manage the conversation is a good idea and I agree with fair warning, suspension, expulsion. Yes we are adults but that has no bearing on someone who doesn't behave as one or has an entirely different agenda. The difference in face-to-face conversation vs. writing in forums is enormous in it's subtleties. You can not gage the tone of voice, expression or even meaning and misunderstandings are bound to happen. I also agree that those should be taken outside of the general thread.
Thanks for the great topic and bringing to light an important aspect of participating in group discussion on-line.
Cheers, Sweetman
I agree. This is a very interesting topic and relevent to our local book discussion groups as well. Many of us have seen this happen in our book groups face to face with opinionated readers. I don't know how to deal with these confrontaions when we meet at each others homes, other than deflection or trying to change the subject. Some folks think it is amusing to watch two with different opinions going at it with each other, almost like a political debate.Sorry I missed what went on here.
I hope to get ideas from all of you here on how to respond, especially when one is hosting a meeting. And what about when folks argue over which book suggetion we read next? We have sometimes had to pick titles out of a hat so as not to cause hurt feelings.
I don't like it when one or two start exchanging comments that are just replies to eachother and don't really further the topic. I think those people should take it private the way we do when playing an on line game. That way others don't have to waste time on it. The idea of sending a private email asking them to do this sounds good to me.
A while back I was part of a heated and interesting debate for a controversial topic. I found it necessary to repeat (in new posts) what I had said in previous posts because some people would post that I said something I didn’t say, that I meant something I did not mean, or their posts revealed that they did not understand what I was talking about. It is astonishing how easily some people (deliberately and unintentionally) can take things out of context and alter the original/intended message. I agree with Mickey, I also don’t like it when 2+ posters start exchanging comments that are only replies to one another, replies that do little to further the original topic of the thread. Such exchanges can quickly become boring. Yet, I’ve been one of those people who has repeated statements, reiterated my opinions, etc. My doing that is tedious to me and I think it is tiresome to others---yet I feel that, in some cases, I've little choice.
What I’ve learned is to share my repeated statements and “off-topic chatter” in private emails or in private Goodreads messages, as Mickey has suggested. If the person is interested in constructive sharing they will respectfully respond to my private correspondences even if they disagree with me. If their interest is to publicly grandstand, to publicly spout off on a thread to an audience, they won’t have much interest in private correspondences. One cannot grandstand to an audience in a privately exchanged message.
A pet peeve of mine is when a thread gets way off topic. Often this is innocently done. A person will casually mention that they like pet rabbits, the 49ers, and figs, whatever. The next thing you know there are countless comments about rabbits, sports, figs, etc. The topic of the original thread is left and numerous posters go off on unrelated tangents. I’m guilty of doing this; I’ve done this and then later been annoyed with myself, for being part of this problem. I think facilitators/moderators should try to keep the original topic intact on the thread.
Pat, you do a better job that most people. I always enjoy threads you start.
DB
As one of the worst culprits for tangent creating, I'd have to agree with that comment, DB. Luckily, even if one of the moderators does go AWOL, there are others, who can bring things back on topic.In fact, the moderators should have a weekly designated driver, so to speak, so the others can let rip :)
Having a designated weekly moderator is a good suggestion Paul---and if we have a tangent topic that is popular perhaps we can start a thread for it. (I have to admit---I've enjoyed some of your tangents, LOL.)
Hi D.B.! (Stacy waving to you, LOL!)
Pat, if there is a way to block the argumentative people, then do it. I guess after being a school teacher (and a parent) I'm inclined to nip that kind of thing in the bud. Give them a warning, delete the ill tempered posts and eventually block them.
