A Dance with Dragons
discussion
maybe instead of.....
Danny: I agree, he could wrap the series up in about 100 pages or less. And hopefully with only 100 pages to write, we would only have to wait 2 years.
I guess not to be a dick i will say ****MAJOR SPOILER*** however if you really care about spoilers maybe you should wait to see what others have to say after you finish the book since this is a "MAYBE INSTEAD OF" forum and the only reason i am warning of this because i hate when i get unwanted spoilers...there happy @Tamer... i never usually submit but i did because of the love of good books and appreciating others who enjoy reading as well.I am so upset i just finished it and if jon snow is dead im DONE...
i felt like it was a real cop out the whole book especially for the wait. mainly it was all filler, with a few cool things and a lot of sad parts.
ZERO GRATIFICATION and a lot of pointless side stories AGAIN. atleast jordan was going somewhere, i think martin could take more than just the timeline tip from him and maybe some writing tips too.
B.evil, while I agree with the lack of gratification, please consider removing the MAJOR SPOILER in the first line of your comment.
"George R.R. Martin is not your bitch." from that blog above linked.enough said
Tamer wrote: "B.evil, while I agree with the lack of gratification, please consider removing the MAJOR SPOILER in the first line of your comment."Ummm Excuse me and correct me if I am wrong, but was the purpose of this forum not to talk about the events in the book??? If you are reading this forum then you are supposed to have read the book, and if one is so careless to come in here and read about what others have to say in a "what if" forum about a book they are currently reading then maybe they need to be spoiled. I certainly didnt look at not the first review, comments, or forum until I finished so I dont really think it needs to be removed because the whole forum is a SPOILER.
The neil gaimen quote is really kind of stupid. Because actually writing a book that has gone on for nearly 2 decades, and 6 years with out releasing a new book makes you the publics bitch and he should be able to take whatever criticisms that come his way. If he didnt want the publics opinion then he never would have went public with his work. What is the point of publishing your work if you are not interested in what your fans have to say. But oh wait I know the way of it all PRAISE AND POSITIVE FEEDBACK right? Be real nothing in life is all positive energy. I understand not being a slave to your work to please your fans, and writers block, and even the death of many loved characters. Ned starks death was necessary in my opinion, Robbs, and a lot of the others. But it seems at times that is the only way he knows to get a big reaction out of his fans and in my opinion that is a cop out. I have been reading Jordan, Feist, Eddings for years and none of them have to resort to these tactics to present amazing series. I think it is sad that GRRM does because his world and characters are really brilliant. Jordan never had to do this, death is necessary yes, and the filler story is necessary, but Jordan was able to keep his story going with a few boring books in between, but all had wonderful endings. Even with him being dead he still has a book out a year.
I just finished A Dance With Dragons and I have to disagree with just about everybody. I, for one, love this series and I loved this book. It did take me a couple of weeks to read just due to the length. Also, for Danny. I'm not sure if you've actually read any of the books. Jon and Arya are brother and sister and there has never been any suggestion that they "hook up". Do you mean Jon and Danerys?
Great series. Anticipation is half the pleasure. It's hard to wait, but wonderful when you are able to open the book and escape into that world again. The characters are waiting to continue their lives just where you left off..freeze frame. I don't want the books to finish. The quicker they are written, the sooner the adventure will end. I loved A Dance With Dragons.
B.evil wrote: If you are reading this forum then you are supposed to have read the bookThat's not true. 'Discussions' on a book on this site run the gamut from "is this a book I should read?" to "I'm 30 pages in and confused about what happened" to "I just finished reading and think this book is (the) shit". Just go check any random set of discussions on any book you like on this site.
Maybe goodreads should put a better system in place: a simple "CONTAINS SPOILERS" flag that can be turned on/off per post or discussion.
Danny wrote: "pretty much anything is better than this waiting game, we saw how well that worked out for Robert Jordan........... "
I strongly disagree. I could survive even not knowing the end of the story, but I could not survive the decline in quality. Good quality writing takes time and the guy clearly doesn't want to spend all his life doing one thing only - and as much as I crave for the rest of the story, I quite understand that. Anyway, what's the point in knowing the plot if you can't really enjoy the process of reading? His writings are masterpieces, and the more of them to read the better. I'm prepared to wait as long as it takes to have another 1000 pages of pure pleasure :-)
Lweslock wrote: "Jon and Arya are brother and sister and there has never been any suggestion that they "hook up". Do you mean Jon and Danerys? "You misunderstood him. He was implying Jon and Arya marrying different people.
Honestly, this whole wishful thinking is a bad idea. I can guarantee the books will not close on a happy ending.
B.evil wrote: "...he should be able to take whatever criticisms that come his way. If he didnt want the publics opinion then he never would have went public with his work. What is the point of publishing your work if you are not interested in what your fans have to say."Sure, you can criticise him all you want. You can even criticise the way he brushes his teeth or combs his beard, but just know that, ultimately, these are HIS books, HIS works of art, and he can take however fucking long he wants to take. Ultimately, if you're buying his books and investing your time in his art, YOU'RE the bitch, and he can use that as an excuse to fuck you in the ass if he wants to.
Will wrote: "B.evil wrote: "...he should be able to take whatever criticisms that come his way. If he didnt want the publics opinion then he never would have went public with his work. What is the point of publ..."wow that was deep..you really stuck it to me!
B.evil wrote: wow that was deep..you really stuck it to me! LOL.
Not the best in the series but definitely not the worst. Also keep in mind that this and AFfC were meant to be one book. Anyway the ending does have me looking forward to the next book but I'm hoping Martin isn't dead by then. >_>
Wow. I can't beleive how angry some people are. Isn't contributing to this site supposed to be fun? Although I would love to read books 6 and 7 NOW I, happily, have other ways of spending my time and hope I will be alive and well to enjoy the last two books when Martin is good and ready to publish them. Noone is forcing anyone to wait or to read.
Nelly wrote: "Wow. I can't beleive how angry some people are. Isn't contributing to this site supposed to be fun? Although I would love to read books 6 and 7 NOW I, happily, have other ways of spending my time a..."I concur!
Maggie wrote: "Nelly wrote: "Wow. I can't beleive how angry some people are. Isn't contributing to this site supposed to be fun? Although I would love to read books 6 and 7 NOW I, happily, have other ways of spen..."Well said !!!
B.evil wrote: "I guess not to be a dick i will say ****MAJOR SPOILER*** however if you really care about spoilers maybe you should wait to see what others have to say after you finish the book since this is a "MA..."I don't believe that Jon is truly dead. He left him at a point much like the did with a few other characters in the past (the Hound for one) where you thought he was a goner. Even if you take it as the stabbings killed him remember the Red Witch is on the wall and can bring him back to life (like his mother was) or he even can be brought back by some other means like the character Cold Hands. I learned that in this series no character is truly dead.
He is alive. When Brienne the maid of Tarth went on her quest to find Sansa she traveled with a monk and when they stopped at an island that is a monastery the Hound was there as a monk along with his horse. You find this out when they speek to one of the monks.
I wish Cersei would die. Ughh. Maybe Arya will kill her as an assassin for the Faceless Men. She's getting prepared to kill somebody important!
Actually the monk found the hound and was with him as he died. Somebody else is using the Helm that he wore and calling himself the hound.
Lweslock wrote: "Actually the monk found the hound and was with him as he died. Somebody else is using the Helm that he wore and calling himself the hound."I think it was Rorg (sp?) the guy without the nose who runs around with Biter.
Judyta wrote: "Danny wrote: "pretty much anything is better than this waiting game, we saw how well that worked out for Robert Jordan........... "
I strongly disagree. I could survive even not knowing the end o..."
Amen to that!
Lweslock wrote: "Actually the monk found the hound and was with him as he died. Somebody else is using the Helm that he wore and calling himself the hound."Yes Biter or one of his buddies I believe was the one who took the Hounds helm from his grave. But again go back to the part on the island monastery and you can infer that the Hound is there by conversation between Brienne and the monk.
Lweslock wrote: "I just finished A Dance With Dragons and I have to disagree with just about everybody. I, for one, love this series and I loved this book. It did take me a couple of weeks to read just due to the..."I'm not sure if you read the past books but incest is a recurring theme in them. So it's quite fathomable that Jon and Arya "hook up".
Lweslock wrote: "I just finished A Dance With Dragons and I have to disagree with just about everybody. I, for one, love this series and I loved this book. It did take me a couple of weeks to read just due to the..."I'm not sure if you read the past books but incest is a reccuring theme. So it's actually quite fathomable that they "hook up"?
Am I the only one who has wondered who Jon Snow's mother is and what promise Ned Stark made to his sister? are the two connected? is Jon maybe not Ned's son but possibly his sister's son?
ahhh okay thanks. I hadn't seen it mentioned here or in any reviews. I don't even know that I'd say he's Roberts son....
No, the most favoured theory doesn't say that Jon is the son of Lyanna and Robert, but of Lyanna and Rhaegar (Targaryen).EDIT: Goran, you were a second faster than me :-)
Right, thats where I was going with it....I hadn't seen R+L=J reference, so I didn't know which R it referred too....I am with ya....So possible plot twist, bastard or no, Jon has claim to the throne as does Dany!
What was wrong with Ghost just before Jon was stabbed? Could Melissandra have known Jon was going to be threatened and glamoured someone to look like him while Jon warged into Ghost, or am I clutching at straws?
Casey wrote: "Tracey wrote: "What was wrong with Ghost just before Jon was stabbed? Could Melissandra have known Jon was going to be threatened and glamoured someone to look like him while Jon warged into Ghost,..."That's been a frustrating part of the books for me, is how Jon can't seem to catch on that Ghost can sense when other people have harmful intentions.
Jeffrey wrote: "He is alive. When Brienne the maid of Tarth went on her quest to find Sansa she traveled with a monk and when they stopped at an island that is a monastery the Hound was there as a monk along with ..."I thought the main monk, whom Brienne poured her heart out to told her that he buried the hound and someone took his helm.
B.evil wrote: "I guess not to be a dick i will say ****MAJOR SPOILER*** however if you really care about spoilers maybe you should wait to see what others have to say after you finish the book since this is a "MA..."
GRRM said in an interview "oh you think he's dead do you" <-- so that possibly means Jon is still alive or will be resurrected or sumthin like that. It broke my heart when I was reading that chapter of Jon's, so yeah, he better be alive somehow in the next books or i might not follow through with the series.
Casey wrote: "...Also there is no way Jon is dead permanently. Even if he dies, he'll be coming back "Yup, I'm banking on it :) But I hope he doesn't come back like the way Cat or Beric did ...
Lweslock wrote: "I just finished A Dance With Dragons and I have to disagree with just about everybody. I, for one, love this series and I loved this book. It did take me a couple of weeks to read just due to the..."ya, i have read the entire series and have actually loved it. also, i did mean Jon and Danerys, thnx for catching that!
as for the people linking and pointing out that GRRM is not my bitch....idiots.
i and anyone with half a brain knows that. i am merely stating a fact that if he were to stop running all over the world and actually put some effort into his SoIF series, maybe, just MAYBE he could finish the series by the time HBO catches up to him.....
does anyone really enjoy waiting 5-6 years between books?
Danny wrote: "and actually put some effort into his SoIF seriesAre you really going to accuse him of not trying now? How stupid are you? You really think he isn't putting everything he has into it?
Funny, that you should mention Sanderson here. In my quest to find another awesome, absorbing and magnificently written fantasy series, I took a stab at Sanderson's The Way of Kings. I have only read a couple of chapters but, so far, I am not impressed. The story may wind up being good, but the writing is definitely lackluster. Does not compare with Martin's world; vivid settings and psychologically complex characters are absent so far.
Nelly wrote: "Funny, that you should mention Sanderson here. In my quest to find another awesome, absorbing and magnificently written fantasy series, I took a stab at Sanderson's The Way of Kings. I have only re..."i actually just read Patrick Rothfuss the name of the wind
after finishing martin. my favs are jordan, feist, eddings, and martin of course. so i have had a problem finding decent fantasy since these phenomenal series...so i was so pleasantly surprised by how decent these were. i gave to my boyfriend and he liked them too.
Ruthie wrote: "Jeffrey wrote: "He is alive. When Brienne the maid of Tarth went on her quest to find Sansa she traveled with a monk and when they stopped at an island that is a monastery the Hound was there as a ..."that is reassuring as i hadn't heard that quote before about jon snow. my boyfriend is like brittain be real dont do this to yourself again just accept he is gone and be done with it. but on the other hand we have both been like melissandre was there, it didnt say he was dead exactly etc.
i have loved him since the begining...and brand i had hoped in book one they would be the primary figures. so i wasnt feeling very optimistic about the two of them as the story ended. i really enjoyed "young griffs" addition to the storyline and a lot of the stuff in the book.
and of course tyrion the little lion man.
after the shock of it all has settled within me, i am back to just being happy i was able to immerse myself in the world and enjoy his characters again no matter the time line or turn of events (or lack there of).
Yeah. I wasn't being sarcastic, I actually was referencing an earlier post in this thread by someone else where the book was recommended (guess I should have been more explicit!). I completely agree with you. Martin's books have soul. So far, the only fantasy books on par with his series are books I've read by Rothfuss and Gaiman. Thanks for those other recommendations :)
Goran wrote: "Nelly perhaps I misunderstood your tone, but I mentioned Senderson as an example of writer who doesn't care much for his works, therefore he writes like a machine, and it shows...I don't like any o..."i started ;ies of locke lamora. i enjoyed the opening and then when it got to the older people rowing down a river i presume to pull off a heist i got real bored and didnt pick it up again. is it really worth finishing?
i just find that if it doesnt pull me in, really in under 30 pages then it probably isnt going to be that great...i read part of the elric saga recently and just kept trying to give it chance after chance and my god it just eventually pissed me off about how badly it sucked that it has had me hesitant about sticking with stuff thinking it is eventually going to be good. i may go back to it and try again cuz i loved his little scam emptying and burning that section of town down in the begining.
B.evil wrote: "...that is reassuring as i hadn't heard that quote before about jon snow. my boyfriend is like brittain be real dont do this to yourself again just accept he is gone and be done with it. but on the other hand we have both been like melissandre was there, it didnt say he was dead exactly etc ..."I know right? :) Here is the link to a transcript of that interview: http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/07/21/d... Though I just don't want Jon to come back as someone "undead" like Cat or Beric ...
Thanks so much for this link. Clearly, Jon is not dead (hurray!). Can I admit that I used to love watching Beauty and the Beast? God, that was ages ago!
Ruthie wrote: "B.evil wrote: "...that is reassuring as i hadn't heard that quote before about jon snow. my boyfriend is like brittain be real dont do this to yourself again just accept he is gone and be done with..."that is exactly what we said. i would rather him be dead and in ghost than a "zombie"
and thanks so much for the link!
Nelly wrote: "Thanks so much for this link. Clearly, Jon is not dead (hurray!). Can I admit that I used to love watching Beauty and the Beast? God, that was ages ago!"only cuz its a martin forum...id say dont say this to others ;) lol!!! i totally remember to me and my mom watched it together and LOVED it!
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maybe GRRM is getting too tired of this world to actually contribute to it anymore. maybe he should just write one page to sum up the whole series, "Arya and Jon Snow meet, marry, have kids, kill everyone else. The End."
pretty much anything is better than this waiting game, we saw how well that worked out for Robert Jordan...........