Fantasy Book Club discussion

The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
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2009 Group Read Discussions > 11/09-12/09: The Hobbit/ Bilbo the Heroic?

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Maria Arena As the central character of The Hobbit, Bilbo is often the reader’s choice as favourite character. Yet he is an odd choice for a hero and protagonist – both from a reader's and writer's perspective. Bilbo is a middle-aged, rotund, hair-footed, short creature who lives in a hole in the ground. He stumbles and bumbles and frets over pocket-handkerchiefs… Hardly the dashing prince or brawny gladiator to which a child might aspire, nor is he even a shadow of the delectable Legolas or rugged Aragorn (say it with me, ahhhhhh. Odd little fellow Bilbo may be, yet a hero he is… isn’t he?


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Jim (jimmaclachlan) He shows the truest kind of courage. He is the least likely hero, yet persevered even in the face of complete lack of ability, total fear & ignorance. He was also unwilling, but in the face of all that, he carried on when most others would have quit.


Emily But that is way he is such a good hero. A hero is not someone who lacks fear but someone who acts despite it. If he had the abilities and the knowlege he wouldn't have been much of a hero and the book would have been quite boring. I like heros that are made much more than one the goes out looking to be hero.


DavidO (drgnangl) I thought the thing that made him difficult to accept as a hero was that half the time, the first half of the book, Gandalf always shows up and saves him.


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Jim (jimmaclachlan) That was my point, Emily.

He learned & persevered, David. Gandalf gave him a start.


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Chris  Haught (haughtc) | 916 comments Gandalf always seemed to disappear just before critical moments, then reappear at just the right time. It was like he was giving Bilbo a trial by fire teaching.


Amelia (narknon) I wonder why Gandalf came to Bilbo in the first place? What was the relationship Gandalf had with Bilbo that made him the hobbit to be picked. Maybe it was the sense of adventure that the Baggin's had. Maybe Gandalf sensed that Bilbo needed a chance to grow and to reach out to others. For a hobbit, just leaving the shire made him a hero of sorts. He had a lot of learning and growing to do in his journey. In the end it was Bilbo who helped defeat the dragon. He didn't fight it like a brawny hero would have, but he found the weak spot that allowed the dragon to be killed.


Elena I always thought the definition of a hero was an ordinary person that follows a call to adventure while struggling through a challenge, even to a point of no return and from that experience can transcend and transform themselves and finally become that hero. Bilbo IS that ordinary person, if he was the dashing, strong, gallant type, I would not expect that much of a transformation. The fact that Bilbo could go beyond his Hobbit tendencies shows the great amount of strength he used. Our hero HAD TO BE a Hobbit, if it was Prince Charming I would be bored.


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Jim (jimmaclachlan) Bilbo was also descended from Old Took & Bullroarer, so he had 'good breeding'.

As for Gandalf knowing his potential, he was a wizard, one of the 'wise ones' sent to the Middle Earth by the Vala. While the wizards looked like men, they were a lot more than them, both physically & mentally.

We're shown Gandalf's ability to know more than he should right at the beginning when he tells Bilbo to fetch 'the cold chicken' & Bilbo mutters how Gandalf seemed to know the state of his larder better than he did.


Cecile | 61 comments Maybe Gandalf knew from the beginning that the dwarves would need someone peaceful and steady to overbalance their greediness, particularly with Thorin's quick temper.
So he chose a hobbit, one who has a couple of adventurers in his ancestors, because he thought there would still be enough of the adventurer type in him.
It turned out there was a lot more than he bargained for.

Bilbo is also the hero chosen by the author for a story he wrote for children, so he couldn't be a strong character. For a child, a strong character would be seen as a grown-up, not someone he can identify with.
On the contrary, a small creature overcoming his fears in a great adventure is very close to a child growing up in a fearful world (monsters in the dark or under the bed, spiders, barking dogs, vertigo, fear of being lost or abandoned and so on).
Bilbo is facing a lot of the children's fears in his adventure.


Elise (ghostgurl) | 1028 comments Well, he's what you call the anti-hero. I remember taking a sci-fi class in high school where we discussed it. I think he's easily identifiable because he's ordinary. He's more of a brains over brawn type of hero.


DavidO (drgnangl) I would call Elric of Melnibone an anti-hero. I can't understand calling Biblo one since he isn't the opposite of all things heroic.


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Jim (jimmaclachlan) I agree with David. I always thought of an anti-hero as someone who did good heroic things for bad reasons. Elric is a perfect example.

Bilbo seems to me to be the purest type of hero. He only ever wanted to do what was right & managed it even though he was the least likely hero I've read about.


colleen the convivial curmudgeon (blackrose13) I always thought the archetype that Bilbo fits into would be the "reluctant hero": "The reluctant hero is typically portrayed either as an ordinary person thrust into extraordinary circumstances which require him to rise to heroism, or as a person with extraordinary abilities who nonetheless evinces a desire to avoid using those abilities for the benefit of others. In either case, the reluctant hero does not initially seek adventure or the opportunity to do good, and their apparent selfishness may draw them into the category of anti-heroes. The reluctant hero differs from the anti-hero in that the story arc of the former inevitably results in their becoming a true hero."


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Fox (foxmists) | 218 comments He wasn't thrust into it. He talked himself into it. *grin*

He did what I often do. Get myself in over my head by opening my mouth. And since neither I nor Bilbo is willing to forsake a promise, we wind up doing things we would never do otherwise. Perhaps "Accidental" should be added along with "reluctant", hmm?

Either way, he is clearly the hero. I think the stereotypical muscle-bound archetype of a hero is no longer seen favourably in most audiences. We prefer the reluctant, accidental, "common" types. We prefer people more like ourselves.




DavidO (drgnangl) I can only think of a few cases where the sterotypical characters were popular, such as Conan or the Three Musketeers. Mostly those characters are in b-level books, aren't they?


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Fox (foxmists) | 218 comments David wrote: "I can only think of a few cases where the sterotypical characters were popular, such as Conan or the Three Musketeers. Mostly those characters are in b-level books, aren't they?"

I was thinking more along the way of timelines. In the past, such stereotypes were seen quite favourably. No longer so. As society has evolved, so has its tastes. What we consider "B-level books" were A-level at one time, I believe.




message 18: by [deleted user] (last edited Dec 06, 2009 10:29PM) (new)

To me the best hero's are the ones you least expect to be hero's but whose inner strength comes out when needed in the most darkest circumstances. The person may not even know of this inner strenght until it is tested and then may even have doubts of their own abilities. Bilbo represented a country english gentleman content on his farm, with the worries of the world far away. Happy in his peaceful little hobbit hole, smoking his pipe and drinking beer, he had no need for adventure, so he believed. In the beginning he is shown as shy and timid with many fears. His personality does develop as he overcomes the difficulties he meets during the journey. At the end of the story we see Bilbo with the strongest character.

Moses had his own fears when God spoke to him to lead his people. He was known as being very timid and shy and doubted his own ablities. Yet he was able to do as requested in the end through trials. Maybe it is the inner strength that makes the true hero, rather than any raw brutal strength.


Cecile | 61 comments The hero in Greek mythology was a demigod, like Heracles. The heroes of ancient myths were generally powerful characters, often warriors. I think that people of ancient times, probably with the strong influence of religion, saw something divine in the great actions of heroes.

Now, in our modern world, we like to think that any individual can achieve great things given the opportunity. We like to wonder what we would do in the same situation.
Tolkien, having lived through trench battles in Word War I, must have seen heroes a bit like Bilbo, lost in the middle of a terrifying war.


Amelia (narknon) I like the idea of Bilbo being a reluctant hero, even if it was an accidental occurence. Once he made the choice to go with the dwarves on this adventure, he was trying what he could to help out. At first it seemed like he was contributing very little and he wondered why he even went. Little by little he found out that he was part of the group and that he could make a difference. His particular set of skills and abilities, or even his size, gave him many advantages over the dwarves. This ordinary individual was able to conquer and to overcome. I think that really makes a hero. To carry on, no matter what happens, to reach out even if you don't think you will be able to do much.

I think one of the most heroic things Bilbo did, was to try to make peace between the humans and the dwarves after Smaug was killed. He recognized that greatness was not found in war, but in preventing that war, in saving lives and creating friendships. I think that would really have been one of the hardest things to do. In a way he was betraying the dwarves by taking the diamond to the humans, but he was doing it for the good of all.


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