The 'Take it Outside' thread This thread will no longer be moderated *** Showing 4,901-4,950 of 5,982

[Will]

But effectively run by the EU Commission, which has its own political and economic agenda.

[Jim]

Michael Cargill wrote: "And where did this plan come from? 'The EU' is a conglomeration of democratically elected states."

who have been instructed not to speak to another democratically elected state by an apparatchik until Article 50 happens
And rather than telling him to take a running jump they've all knuckled down and said 'yes sir'

[Michael]

The democratically elected states have been talking with us perfectly fine.

Theresa May was in Dublin for a meeting with Merkel earlier this year.

[Michael]

Will wrote: "But effectively run by the EU Commission, which has its own political and economic agenda."

The EU Commission is made up of representatives of each member nation.

[Jim]

Michael Cargill wrote: "The democratically elected states have been talking with us perfectly fine.

Theresa May was in Dublin for a meeting with Merkel earlier this year."

and not allowed to discuss the details
Or did they showing that the EU is an irrelevance

[Jim]

Michael Cargill wrote: "Will wrote: "But effectively run by the EU Commission, which has its own political and economic agenda."

The EU Commission is made up of representatives of each member nation."

I somehow don't remember when we elected the UK commissioners

[Michael]

I'm not really sure where this tangent is going to be honest.

[Patti (baconater)]

I don't understand what's happened. Could someone please explain, using small words?

[Rosemary (grooving with the Picts)]

Two of the country's most senior judges ruled, in the High Court, that the government does not have the power to trigger Article 50 without the approval of Parliament. Govt will now appeal to Supreme Court. Which I thought was american but apparently we have one now too

[Rosemary (grooving with the Picts)]

And if parliament voted against it, it would cause something of a constitutional crisis

[Jim]

the problem is that it's an exercise if fatuity.

Parliament voting yes or no over Article 50 is one thing, but parliament demanding the right to lay down in detail exactly what the negotiating stance in is beyond silly.
Because all that happens is that we do article 50, the EU looks at the list and says 'No' and we're still out of the EU and have to get on with the negotiations just as we were going to

[Will]

I disagree it is fatuous, Jim. I see it as a very positive check on the growing power of the executive.

Personally I've no doubt that the majority of MP s will vote to invoke article 50, following the desires of their constituents. They are free not to do so of course, and those few with a Remain majority should vote that way as their constituents prefer, too. That's the way our system is supposed to work, not the occupant of 10 Downing Street behaving like a President in a banana republic.

[Rosen]

Why did I look at this thread? Why oh why!

[Roger]

I like European politics. It is so much more civil than American politics.

[Patti (baconater)]

Rosen wrote: "Why did I look at this thread? Why oh why!"

I've asked myself the same thing. Frequently.

[Patti (baconater)]

Roger wrote: "I like European politics. It is so much more civil than American politics."

These days, definitely.

[Michael]

The way some of the media are reporting this legal ruling is disgusting.

The Daily Mail had a headline referencing the sexuality of one of the judges yesterday.

The rest of them are calling the judges traitors.

Mind blowing stuff.

[Patti (baconater)]

Not unexpected from the daily mail.

[David]

Jim wrote: I somehow don't remember when we elected the UK commissioners

I somehow don't remember when we voted for Theresa May.

That's right, we didn't.

But she is still trying to claim for herself the sole right to decide what 'Brexit' means, and how it is to come about.

On a day of vileness on the front pages of much of the press, I think "The Sun" sinks the lowest. Whilst born in Guyana, Gina Miller has lived in the UK for more than 40 years, and it seems to me that the colour balance of "The Sun"'s photo of her has been doctored to make her look darker.

[David]

The proprietors of 'The Telegraph' and 'The Daily Mail' are tax exiles.

The proprietor of 'The Daily Express', the son of European immigrants, is a pornographer.

The owner of 'The Sun' is an American who gave up his Australian citizenship so that he could buy things in the USA.

The owners of the UK's right-wing press are an unedifying bunch.

[Michael]

I think there's some ambiguity over the photo of Gina Miller - it's possible that the one used by (I think) The Times is actually lighter than it would otherwise be.

[David]

Patti (baconater) wrote: "Rosen wrote: "Why did I look at this thread? Why oh why!"

I've asked myself the same thing. Frequently."

http://slowrobot.com/i/41008

[Patti (baconater)]

David wrote: "Patti (baconater) wrote: "Rosen wrote: "Why did I look at this thread? Why oh why!"

I've asked myself the same thing. Frequently."

http://slowrobot.com/i/41008"

Groan!

[Jim]

Will wrote: "I disagree it is fatuous, Jim. I see it as a very positive check on the growing power of the executive.

..."


No problem with that

[David]

I think the Sun doctoring the photo is real. This pairing shows the pictures that first made me think there was something hinky about it.

https://twitter.com/e2dme/status/7945...

Someone else did this.

https://twitter.com/silly_snowflake/s...

[Lynne (Tigger's Mum)]

Well? Any thoughts?

[Patti (baconater)]

I'm in shock.

[Lynne (Tigger's Mum)]

I am too but politics with a big P aside. I saw that video of Hillary taken ill on 9/11 and have thought ever since she wasn't physically fit for the office. If she had won then been shown to be ill she would have put back any equality issue for women for ever. If she lied about her health as well that would have just compounded it.
As for Trump. I'm being flippant as usual but when the grandson breaks wind, as they do, I now call them Donalds.

[Jim]

I think America really has to start thinking

""Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
And I'll abandon them in dead end jobs in rust-bucket states'

[B J]

So the 150-1 outsider at the start of the process has won. I had an uncomfortable feeling that he might. As the campaign went on and I heard terms like 'the rust belt' bandied about, the widespread unhappiness of huge numbers of Americans became clear - as did the appetite for the protectionist policies Trump was mentioning.

[Lynne (Tigger's Mum)]

That programme on gun ownership in America last week was really something to think about. There were so many buying in advance of possible legislation to restrict them if Clinton had won has made the situation worse.

[Will]

I saw a journalist in the Guardian writing: once Florida and Ohio had declared, it only remained for the Rust Belt to confirm his victory.

I see this as another manifestation of the despair of ordinary people with the political class that has abandoned them and treated them as a disposable commodity. Clinton was the very definition of that class, beating Sanders not by popular vote but by insider dealing with the democratic 'Super votes'. Soon as she won, Trump began to win too. For good or ill.

[Jim]

It intrigues me that Will and I often seem to see the same big picture, in spite of me being somewhat to the right of Attila and Will being the sort of damned commie pinko liberal who would regard Mao as a wishy-washy lapdog of the Imperialist running dogs :-)

I think one problem we have is a political elite with a strong sense of 'entitlement'. Half the problem with MPs expenses could be laid at that door.

Also the feeling that politics is a career. It isn't, it's something every citizen should feel able to get involved in for at least some part of their life.
We want politicians who've held down jobs, whether they're doctors, teachers, lawyers, steelworkers, farm workers, landagents, worked in call centres, been nursery nurses,

And who still keep their job because they will need something to go back to.

[B J]

Spot on, Will. Our own version of the rust belt resulted in Brexit.

[Marc]

and in 4 years time when neither Trump nor Brexit have delivered redress for their grievances, where will the 'forgotten men and women' of the US & UK then turn to eructate their fury?

[Lynne (Tigger's Mum)]

Pitchforks for the Brits, looting for the states.

[David]

Jim wrote: "It intrigues me that Will and I often seem to see the same big picture, in spite of me being somewhat to the right of Attila and Will being the sort of damned commie pinko liberal who would regard ..."

And me too, despite me disliking - to put it mildly - both the right and the left in more or less equal measure.

I suppose if I had to stand anywhere on the political spectrum, it would be a reluctant and tentative classical liberal. Even then I would be arguing with myself about it.

But despite despising Trump and regarding his polices - such that they are - as bollocks, I still had to smile when I heard Hilary had lost.

[Rosemary (grooving with the Picts)]

I can't get over all the bewilderment by talking heads at Trump being voted in despite never having been involved in politics. They can't seem to see that that may very well be why so many voted for him.

And also noting the Farage is now arguably our most influential and best connected politician....!

[David]

Rosemary (grooving with the Picts) wrote: "I can't get over all the bewilderment by talking heads at Trump being voted in despite never having been involved in politics. They can't seem to see that that may very well be why so many voted for him."

It will be interesting to see if the political establishment learn from it, or if they continue in denial in the hope that things will go back to their idea of normal.

[B J]

Marc wrote: "and in 4 years time when neither Trump nor Brexit have delivered redress for their grievances, where will the 'forgotten men and women' of the US & UK then turn to eructate their fury?"
Careful, Marc - they may be looking to string up people who use words like eructate.

[B J]

Rosemary (grooving with the Picts) wrote: "I can't get over all the bewilderment by talking heads at Trump being voted in despite never having been involved in politics. They can't seem to see that that may very well be why so many voted fo..."

You're right, Rosie. I doubt if any other European politician has even spoken to Trump, let alone help him get elected!

[Michael]

The 'forgotten' could have voted for either Corbyn or Sanders, but they didn't.

Instead they went for the men who blamed everything on foreigners and immigrants.

[Lynne (Tigger's Mum)]

I've just been reading that Francois Hollandes advisers prepared a letter congratulating Clinton yesterday. They didn't even consider the possibility of the actual result.

[Jim]

Marc wrote: "and in 4 years time when neither Trump nor Brexit have delivered redress for their grievances, where will the 'forgotten men and women' of the US & UK then turn to eructate their fury?"

It really depends on our 'political elite'
If they get out there and do their best to to reconnect with people then it might not be a problem.

[Patti (baconater)]

I'm told that the Canadian immigration website crashed.

I think Drumph might need to build a wall to keep his people in.

[Marc]

B J wrote: "Marc wrote: "and in 4 years time when neither Trump nor Brexit have delivered redress for their grievances, where will the 'forgotten men and women' of the US & UK then turn to eructate their fury?..."

I'll take my chances. I've never apologised for anything I've written and I won't start now ;-)

[B J]

I fear an English Madame Defarge is already knitting your name into her Derby County bobble-hat ;-)

[Arlene]

Hi,
I'm an American (still living in America), I am finding all of your comments really interesting. I do have to say BJ that I agree with your comment regarding Trump and Brexit.

[B J]

Hi Arlene. Congratulations on surviving the last 18 months - it must have been harrowing at times.

[Marc]

Defarge sounds like a cross between Donald & Farage