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message 4851:
by
Lynne (Tigger's Mum)
(last edited Oct 21, 2016 03:19PM)
(new)
Oct 21, 2016 03:19PM
Has anyone seen anything in the British papers about the French police protests. They are getting bigger and have been held every night this week. Last night the CRS wanted to get to the Élysée but the gendarmes held fast. It was a tense stand off but a peaceful protest. Ive not seen a word in print in the UK and some papers in France nce are burying it.
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not noticed anything in the papers, but then I'm not sure how much they do mention about French internal stuff
They aren't mentioning anything that happens on the continent much. It's as if they want everyone to think Europe and by implication the EU is all hunky dory and what we are missing by quitting. From what I've seen in France we aren't missing anything worth having.
That's a bit of a stretch. perhaps the Express, Mail, Telegraph are ignoring Europe because it is no longer relevant to us. You know like how in the news when there's an aircrash in Tanzania, it gets no coverage on the TV news unless Brits are on the plane
Jim wrote: "It's an interesting problem of maths and compound interest but if you work out the debt Scotland had when it joined the UK and we took on, the oil money, minus our investment capital, just about pa..."Leaving aside the issue of Scotland and Scottish independence for a minute, what happened to the hundreds of billions of pounds of North Sea Oil money?
As far as I'm concerned, Westminster's handling of this money has to be one of the greatest acts of criminality ever inflicted on the British people. The money was more or less poured down the drain!
Marc wrote: "Will & Jim, yes I absolutely agree parts of the rest of the country wanted to give London (and Westminster elites) a kicking and informed their choice to vote Brexit. They may well get their wish b..."London survived the Luftwaffe. It can survive Brexit.
London survived the 1918 flu pandemic too, let's get rid of modern medicine.
A dose of Bile Beans for Michael?
Mikey's got his posy to sniff. He'll be fine.
R.M.F wrote: "Leaving aside the issue of Scotland and Scottish independence for a minute, what happened to the hundreds of billions of pounds of North Sea Oil money? .."what happened to it is what happened to all money that passes through the hands of British governments. It gets spent. Poured into a myriad short term fixes and schemes which parties hope will win them friends at the next election. The British Government is a black hole into which an infinite amount of money can be poured and will only make the hole bigger
Could be worse. Could be poured into myriad overseas personal accounts as happens in many countries I've lived in.At least the short term fixes and schemes have some benefit to the plebs.
Very true Patti! There is a lot of corruption in all countries - but I think our type of corruption is less toxic.
Meanwhile canada's government throws up their hands in despair at getting the EU to ever actually do anything.
Will wrote: "Meanwhile canada's government throws up their hands in despair at getting the EU to ever actually do anything."I think this 'trade deal' is testing the water for TTIP.
I thought the complaint about the EU was that they ride roughshod over everyone.Trade deals are complex beasts that take years to negotiate.
which is why the UK will be operating without any in just over years time. Except I foresee when May pulls us out of the ECHR, Belarus & Khazakstan will look to cement our solidarity with their pariah position by forcing through trade deals
I seem to recall that the revenue from North Sea Oil when Mrs. Thatcher was Prime Minister almost exactly equalled the money that was shelled out to 3 million people on the dole, a relatively high proportion of whom lived outside London. It was spent on the modern equivalent of bread and circuses.
David wrote: "I seem to recall that the revenue from North Sea Oil when Mrs. Thatcher was Prime Minister almost exactly equalled the money that was shelled out to 3 million people on the dole, a relatively high ..."yes, that's what I was hinting at David :-)
Marc wrote: "which is why the UK will be operating without any in just over years time. Except I foresee when May pulls us out of the ECHR, Belarus & Khazakstan will look to cement our solidarity with their par..."technically two years after Article 50.
But no we'll be dealing under WTO rules and the latest calculations indicate that as EU member states will be paying more in tariffs to import into the UK than UK firms will be to import into the eu, technically the government could subsidise the companies paying the tariff to export into the eu and pocket the rest as a nice profit :-)
Jim wrote: "Marc wrote: "which is why the UK will be operating without any in just over years time. Except I foresee when May pulls us out of the ECHR, Belarus & Khazakstan will look to cement our solidarity w...technically two years after Article 50."
I took the government at their word when they said the trigger would be March '17. Hence the 'just over 2 years time'
Well, Brexit has to be done by 2019, otherwise we'll be electing new MEPs to Brussels, and although I can see the funny side of that, it would be farcical....
Ummmm. Until brexit kicks in. Then no maple syrup for you.
R.M.F wrote: "Well, Brexit has to be done by 2019, otherwise we'll be electing new MEPs to Brussels, and although I can see the funny side of that, it would be farcical...."what more farcical than voting in UKIP MEPs who don't believe in the institution they are voted into
What bit of politics in the UK isn't farcical?I was gonna say 'these days' but thought that'd be redundant.
Patti: What bit of politics in the UK isn't farcical?Taking a few liberties with the source, politics repeats itself, initially as tragedy, thereafter as farce. We've been going too long for any tragedies to be anywhere but in the dim and distant past, so we must put up with thread-bare stand-up :(
Patti (baconater) wrote: "What bit of politics in the UK isn't farcical?I was gonna say 'these days' but thought that'd be redundant."
none that I can see
Marc wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "Well, Brexit has to be done by 2019, otherwise we'll be electing new MEPs to Brussels, and although I can see the funny side of that, it would be farcical...."what more farcical tha..."
Are you seriously suggesting that Nigel Farage failed to appear at EU fisheries commission meetings, and then moaned about EU fisheries policy afterwards? :)
In other news, it's slightly amusing to see the Tories struggle with economic policy these days. I thought they were the natural party of government and had a reputation for economic prudence? Another myth shattered...
Wouldn't it be amusing if the Article 50 appeal goes to the European Court.
The phrase "put the cat among the pigeons" springs to mind!! ;-)
Although I'm a Leave voter, I'm convinced that this is the right decision, glad the Government will appeal and hoping that the Supreme court comes to the same conclusion, based on law and logic.We need Parliament to be an effective counter to the executive.
And if parliament does vote to stay in, it could make for a very interesting general election. Indeed if the PM makes it a confidence vote and loses the other parties have 14 days to form a government that commands a majority in the commons, or a general election is called.I suspect that from the Conservative point of view they'd prefer the election earlier while UKIP is still in total disarray.
Waiting until 2020 with the debate continuing on and things getting more and more acrimonious would probably kickstart UKIP and make a conservative win in 2020 less absolute.
Indeed I could see some within Labour looking for an election soon because if Labour does crash out, as they could if they vote to remain and really hack off their northern voters, then the anti-Corbyn wing might see it as their only chance to get rid of Corbyn
There will be a lot of MP s looking at the voting record in their constituency though.If they vote remain, when the majority of their voters voted Leave - and that's a fact across large swathes of the UK - they may be fearful of a backlash and losing their seat. So they may vout out even if they personally want to remain.
I think a few will be honorably swayed by the opinion of their constituents.
Jim wrote: "I think a few will be honorably swayed by the opinion of their constituents."I doubt it. Most of them used to work for the EU.
Jim wrote: "And if parliament does vote to stay in, it could make for a very interesting general election. Indeed if the PM makes it a confidence vote and loses the other parties have 14 days to form a governm..."Anybody who voted leave will never back a pro-EU candidate. I know this because in Scotland, after 2014, all the Yes voters went to the SNP.
Labour are finished, because their voters and old heartlands will vote for UKIP.
And that's before you even consider Corbyn, Middle England, boundary changes et all.
It's the 1980s all over again for Labour.
Will wrote: "Although I'm a Leave voter, I'm convinced that this is the right decision, glad the Government will appeal and hoping that the Supreme court comes to the same conclusion, based on law and logic.W..."
We also need a written constitution, elected second chamber, and a proper federal system. We can't keep muddying along like this.
Say what you want about the USA, but at least their powers for Congress/Senate/Executive/SCOTUS are clearly laid out for all to see.
And another thing. Parliament overwhelmingly voted in favour of the referendum, they gave the British people the power to vote on June 23rd. Banging on about Parliamentary sovereignty seems like sour grapes...
R.M.F wrote: "We also need a written constitution, elected second chamber, and a proper federal system. We can't keep muddying along like this. ..."the problem with the US system has been laid open for the last few years, ours produces a government that can govern.
Having an elected second chamber merely confuses who has the authority, is a member of the upper chamber elected this month more legitimate than a member of the lower chamber elected three years ago?
The mandate given by the majority of the country was for the Government to take us out of the EU. - nothing else will suffice!
Jim wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "We also need a written constitution, elected second chamber, and a proper federal system. We can't keep muddying along like this. ..."the problem with the US system has been laid op..."
A written constitution would codify that.
The US system is not perfect, but it's the world's most powerful nation, so it must be doing something right.
No terms without negotiations, and without A50 there are no negotiations.Hopefully, our MPs will comprehend that simple fact....
T4bsF (Call me Flo) wrote: "The mandate given by the majority of the country was for the Government to take us out of the EU. - nothing else will suffice!"It was non-binding, even though they voted in favour of it. It didn't say hard or soft BREXIT, and every other excuse they can think of....
Weasel words from weasel MPs....
How can you say that about the US, when Trump was allowed to make it as far as candidacy stage?? ;-)
nothing else was specified either. Therein lies the problem. We voted for a word. A word that has complex layers that probably needed to be laid out in advance.
Not for me Marc - I thought about all the possible implications and still came to the conclusion that after a period of instability etc - that we would ultimately be much better off - not just talking about the financial situation either.
I meant the manner of how we pull out the EU. Lots of ways of doing it, none specified, none offered, and now we seem incapable of unravelling the legal and economic strands
Marc wrote: "I meant the manner of how we pull out the EU. Lots of ways of doing it, none specified, none offered, and now we seem incapable of unravelling the legal and economic strands"Getting the feeling that was the EU plan from the beginning. Tie up its member states with so much rules and red tape, do so for 40 years, with the net result that it's very hard to leave and untangle the web....
And where did this plan come from? 'The EU' is a conglomeration of democratically elected states.
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