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Lynne (Tigger's Mum)
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Mar 27, 2016 04:40AM
Exactly Will, BT aren't exactly a flagship of excellence are they? An ennobled politically appointed chairman doesn't fit my idea of a working entrepreneur either. Some of these pin ups of either campaign are counter productive.
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don't be ridiculous, both sides of the debate are running scare stories at the front back and centre of their campaigns.
This may be because nobody has anything positive to say about the EU :-)
The OBR has: without a high level of net immigration from the EU there is no chance of Gidiot achieving a budget surplus.
The problem with that is that the proportion of the population genuinely happy with high immigration is probably not very large.Trying to sell the EU on the strength of it is going to be tough
I agree: but at least it is a solid fact, and one of the very few available so far!
In fact from the EU perspective it isn't a good thing. The last thing countries like Germany, France and Italy want is EU citizens migrating to the UK. From the perspective of their own demographic time bombs they really want to see these people migrating into France, Germany and Italy.I don't think Italy and Germany have much problem with emigration, but they really need the Poles and suchlike to be settling with them and boosting their young populations
The problem with a lack of immigration control is that we keep getting peaks and troughs. A few years ago we were closing schools as there were too few pupils, now they are overflowing. In 15 years time we will have a group of adults who are looking for work and competing with the inflow of immigrants.Whilst we are talking about immigration. We are also plundering the world for doctors and nurses. So all these third world nations, who are desperate for medical staff and training them are then having them lured to the UK.
And whilst on the subject of immigration and schools, why is no one pointing out to the Tories that turning all schools into acadamies and closing the Local government education depts will remove ALL planning of future school numbers and needs ?
frankly I think it's because people have such a low opinion of local government's ability to plan anyway.Remember people have to deal with local government and have their own opinions of how it represents them and responds to them. :-(
That has to be one of the daftest ideas ever, it was one of the contributing factors to the mess in the NHS by making every individual department to run its own budget. Has every school got a management committee or people capable of it, if not they'll have to appoint some and at what cost and to the detriment of the spending on actual education.
It's obvious that the idea of turning schools into academies is the first step of putting thousands of buildings, and hundreds of thousands of acres of prime land, into the hands of corporate interests. In the next few years, you may suddenly see a lot of academies deciding that they don't need those playing fields anymore, and a house builder just so happens to be waiting in the wings...
If it's not nailed down, the Tories will sell it.
Lest we forget, from the wikiThe Labour Government under Tony Blair established academies through the Learning and Skills Act 2000, which amended the section of the Education Act 1996 relating to City Technology Colleges. They were first announced in a speech by David Blunkett, then Secretary of State for Education and Skills, in 2000. He said that their aim was "to improve pupil performance and break the cycle of low expectations."
The chief architect of the policy was Andrew Adonis (now Lord Adonis, formerly Secretary of State at the Department for Transport) in his capacity as education advisor to the Prime Minister in the late 1990s.
The Labour party wasn't particularly enthused by the Local authorities and their ability to provide decent education
Was ever a man more misnamed than Lord Adonis!
Marc wrote: "what school playing fields?"Some still exist.
Jim wrote: "Lest we forget, from the wikiThe Labour Government under Tony Blair established academies through the Learning and Skills Act 2000, which amended the section of the Education Act 1996 relating to..."
For me, Labour and Tories are cut from the same cloth.
R.M.F wrote: "Jim wrote: "Lest we forget, from the wikiFor me, Labour and Tories are cut from the same cloth. "
Touching cloth maybe!
an interesting question, does a labour party have to be cut from the same cloth as the Tories to be electable?Or is the Labour party shrinking to become the party of protest in the South East?
Does the Labour Party need us to leave the EU so that it no longer faces the challenge of UKIP in its old heartlands?
1) That was the conclusion of Blair. Since the UK is a small c conservative country, it probably holds true2) A Corbyn Labour Party is. Doesn't mean a future version will tread same path. I'm not sure about the notion of reconnecting to the working class, since in the major metropolitan areas (other than Scotland) their support still remains. It's the small towns like Swindon & Nuneaton they need to somehow prise away from the Tories
3) Don't think there's any appetite for that unless Corbyn manages to turn it into a truly isolationist party and withdraw from any internationalist interaction in defence & security. Which runs against a very serious internationalist strain of socialism.
It's very difficult to draw a conclusion while so much of the country is so alienated by all politics that they don't bother to vote.It can be argued that Corbyn's challenge is actually to engage those disaffected by the Tories/Blair to vote Labour.
It should be the challenge for all politicians, really, shouldn't it? To make politics relevant to people again, to make them feel that their vote matters?
just do away with the lot of them and legislate collectively for ourselves using the technology available. Oh no wait, that means having a politically engaged, serious minded and responsible populace. We get the politicians we deserve.
I shan't take that personally Marc, I think we've got Neil Hamilton standing in our region for the Welsh assembly elections. What did I do to deserve politicians of that calibre?
the electorate collectively Lynne! But you have my deepest sympathies re Hamilton
When RMF said both parties were cut from the same cloth, it's either very slippery stuff or shoddy!
Lynne (Tigger's Mum) wrote: "I shan't take that personally Marc, I think we've got Neil Hamilton standing in our region for the Welsh assembly elections. What did I do to deserve politicians of that calibre?"Well your area did vote in as MP Stephen Crabb, the new IDS... (and on record as saying that having a brain tumour does not make someone unfit for work)
I know somebody who did work with a brain tumour. Admittedly he was a self employed agricultural contractor and driven by his overdraft repayments.He worked to within a couple of days of the operation. After the operation he couldn't work because they wouldn't let him have a driving license so he went back to being an odd-job man for a few years until the after effects killed him.
His funeral was one of the 'bad' ones. He was a well liked chap who died too young
The whole thing has got into a right mess. Apparently now as part of the score for disablement you get points for various things such as having to use aids to do things. The courts have ruled that if you need to sit on the bed to put your socks on you get so many points. (Because it's an aid to getting dressed)
The whole thing needs a root and branch shake up. Some people want to work and indeed can work with a bit of support. They should be invested in to ensure they can. Some people need carrying through the period until they can get back to supporting themselves.
Some people don't want to work whether they're sick or not.
Lynne (Tigger's Mum) wrote: "I shan't take that personally Marc, I think we've got Neil Hamilton standing in our region for the Welsh assembly elections. What did I do to deserve politicians of that calibre?"I presume he will receive his votes in brown envelopes. Of course, previously, he was the MP for the constituency now held by our beloved Chancellor.
Marc wrote: "1) That was the conclusion of Blair. Since the UK is a small c conservative country, it probably holds true2) A Corbyn Labour Party is. Doesn't mean a future version will tread same path. I'm not ..."
British history has shown time and time again that the belief we're a small c conservative country is unfounded.
This is the nation of the diggers, levellers, Chartists, Suffragettes et al
Britain is suffering the same political decline that has afflicted the West these past decades: namely that the market is king, ideology is dead, and that there is no alternative. TINA.
Bereft of ideas, and unable to inspire people, it's no wonder that parties seek to occupy the centre ground, because they stand for nothing, they represent nothing, they believe in nothing...
That's why the Tories hate Corbyn. He's a throwback to the days when politicians used to believe in things.
Jim wrote: "an interesting question, does a labour party have to be cut from the same cloth as the Tories to be electable?Or is the Labour party shrinking to become the party of protest in the South East?
D..."
Everybody's in thrall to the markets. This EU debate should be a wonderful opportunity to discuss the democratic process and how EU institutions effect us, but instead, all we'll hear from now to June is jobs jobs jobs, economy, economy, economy.
The big political ideas have went out the window.
R.M.F wrote: "Marc wrote: "1) That was the conclusion of Blair. Since the UK is a small c conservative country, it probably holds true2) A Corbyn Labour Party is. Doesn't mean a future version will tread same p..."
that's a reasonable analysis RMF, but Napoleon Bonaparte called us a nation of shopkeepers and we still are essentially. While we have had small radical pockets through history as you outline, we find ourselves in the here & now largely small c conservative as a nation. Our very stability means we have had no real revolutionary ideas or praxis take hold of us in the modern era.
Whereas I agree with RMF, Marc's comment echoes the great Sir TP's view - what most people want is to know that tomorrow is going to be the same as today. Except eventually money will run out at the bottom of the triangle on which accumulation of wealth is based - for example, removing call centres to foreign climes to save wages on selling products intended for those folk who have been bereft of income by such moves. That has always seemed to me like businesses shooting themselves in the foot and dying a long slow death from blood poisoning.
except capitalism has shown remarkable tenacity and adapting and surviving. Each time we credit that the bubble is going to burst and economic meltdown ensue, somehow it recovers itself and mutates and lurches on to the next crisis. I suspect that only environmental crisis (end of oil resources, collapse of food production, weather etc) may finally hold capitalism to account.
I don't really understand half the political stuff in the posts above although I do my best when it comes to voting etc. However, if anyone really thinks that Britain is a mostly conservative country, they need to come spend some time in the North East. There are some people who, if you so much as suggest that there may be other acceptable parties to Labour, or that Labour isn't the best party around, will treat you as though you kicked their cat! Others are great, you can have a reasoned discussion but sometimes you can't!
You're right Will, he's our MP. We are punished by the labour majority in the Welsh assembly for having a conservative MP. It's really noticeable how they hate and deprive Pembrokeshire. It really opens your eyes to what small minded nasty people they are to punish a whole county because they didn't vote for them but on that basis I might be just tempted to vote for Hamilton rather than them. That's saying something isn't it. But the British spirit often comes out as I'll see you in Hell before I vote for you if you do that. It's the only way we can be as revolting as they think we are.
Marc wrote: "except capitalism has shown remarkable tenacity and adapting and surviving. Each time we credit that the bubble is going to burst and economic meltdown ensue, somehow it recovers itself and mutates..."That or technology. One day, we may see Star Trek food replicators that dole out rations and clothes to everybody, free of charge.
Of course, we'd have to be a bit more enlightened then.
when I was reading a lot of political theory at 18-19, I confidently expected a fully-automated economy in the future that would release us all from work. How wrong could I be?
Marc wrote: "when I was reading a lot of political theory at 18-19, I confidently expected a fully-automated economy in the future that would release us all from work. How wrong could I be?"Robots and AI seem to be the next big thing. Driverless cars will soon be a reality, as insurance companies will hammer any driver who attempts to do it himself.
We're seeing an increase in automation in many industries, which will of course led to problems as workers are thrown on the scrap heap.
A citizens' income might solve this, where the government scraps benefits and gives everybody a yearly payment of say, £7000.
You can still work, but the idea is that people will do more and more volunteer stuff.
They're trialling it in Norway and Finland.
these ideas were around 30 years ago and formed the foundation of my own political beliefs. But capitalism doesn't want to let go of us pawns quite so easily. For all the automation and costs to human jobs, those with jobs feel pressured to work longer and harder to cling on to a job.
Marc wrote: "these ideas were around 30 years ago and formed the foundation of my own political beliefs. But capitalism doesn't want to let go of us pawns quite so easily. For all the automation and costs to hu..."probably because very few people want to sort of life that a citizen income of £7000 will get you
I had it a tad more idealised in my model. Being freed from wage slavery meant we could devote our life to creating art, playing sport and volunteering. Our souls and mental health would flourish. But of course, didn't quite turn out like that.
having created a consumer society, a lot of people would spend their free time buying stuff and spending money.
I believe that we are rapidly heading towards plutocracy. Looking forward to the driverless cars though. Does that mean one will be able to drink & drive, or rather drink and not drive?
Jim wrote: "having created a consumer society, a lot of people would spend their free time buying stuff and spending money."well obviously we'd have put all the advertisers up against the wall first...
Guy wrote: "I believe that we are rapidly heading towards plutocracy. Looking forward to the driverless cars though. Does that mean one will be able to drink & drive, or rather drink and not drive?"I can't drive and i don't drink. Ever the outlier whatever the society
Don't forget those who don't drive and can't drink.
Don't forget those who don't drive and can't drink.
Guy wrote: "Don't forget those who don't drive and can't drink."they'll have to fend for themselves
Lynne (Tigger's Mum) wrote: "You're right Will, he's our MP. We are punished by the labour majority in the Welsh assembly for having a conservative MP. It's really noticeable how they hate and deprive Pembrokeshire. It really ..."What goes around comes around Lynne: I used to live in an area Thatcher threw into the economic wastebin with callous disregard for thousands of people, in order to support Tory Voting bits of the UK. You think Pembrokeshire is deprived? You should have seen the ruin she caused to the shoe factories of Rossendale, whilst throwing money at the S East. Pembs is a land flowing with milk and honey in comparison.
So, to a crucial decision by TATA on the future of UK steel production, the Government made no representation and sent no one to lobby the board.Really interested, aren't they?
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