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Geoff, I don't think it's politically or morally incompetent to talk peace rather than war, and whilst I respect how you feel after losing friends, I was close enough to the manchester bomb blast to have an equally valid perspective, I think (whilst being lucky enough to have been uninjured).But we'll close that subject and stick to the man's policies, shall we?
Jim wrote: "And the reason I don't think the debate matters :-((and blame Patti for this)
https://jandbvwebster.wordpress.com/2..."
So I'm a 'Lady', am I?
Now that's a big question.
Jim wrote: "And the reason I don't think the debate matters :-((and blame Patti for this)
https://jandbvwebster.wordpress.com/2..."
good post Jim.Was the lady also of Chomsky's acquaintance I wonder (beyond the pages of a book I mean)
Nope. I've never met him, Marc.
oh, you were the lady of Jim'a acquaintance were you? I should have guessed. Lack of prawns/bacon references that misled me
Look Marc, if it is a serious political discussion, how can yu avoid talking about bacon?
message 1258:
by
Geoff (G. Robbins) (merda constat variat altitudo)
(last edited Aug 10, 2015 07:09AM)
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You can't do that, Will. The problem is a matter of the mans judgement. It is in question. The whole country, even those who hated Thatcher, were outraged by the Brighton bomb. Many, such as myself, remembered the murders in Birmingham and Brighton. We also remember that the people who authorised those murders were invited to the HoC by Jeremy Corbyn.Politicians are judged by their actions. Corbyn is left wanting, in what I consider to be a traitorous act.
As for Keynsian economics, that fell into disfavour after being attempted in the 1970's which resulted in stagflation and a recession through most of the Labour period in power.
I can't remember now if the bomber came from North or South of the border, but if the latter, then he could hardly be acting traitorously since he is not a citizen of the UK.I wasn't outraged btw. I'm not saying I cheered and whooped, but I wasn't outraged.
And Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness have met the Royal Family and several Prime Ministers, Geoff. To end violence, you have to talk, even to those you may not like. And the quicker you talk, the better chance there is of ending violence: although that is usually an unpopular choice.Keynes discredited?: against Friedman economics which has brought us Thatcher's continuous cycle of ruinous boom and bust (now re appearing under Osborne, although the booms are a bit hard to detect),has dragged us to the brink of deflation, Friedman de regulation was the prime cause of the economic crash... its reputation is worse.
as I commented on Jim's excellent blog post, there has been no economic or political new ideas under the sun (except perhaps environmentalism). Keynesianism was just watered down Scandi State Corporatism itself a softer version of State Command Economics as per the USSR, while Friedmanism was just 19th Century Freed Tradeism of Cobden & Bright updated
Adams and McGuinness and the IRA are no longer at war with the UK. This was not true when Corbyn invited them to the HoC. There is a world of difference between what the Royal family do now and what Corbyn did then.Keynes does not work during a recession, that has been proven as it is unaffordable. If we proceed under Keynsian principles we will not only lurch back into recession but also be pouring money that we will have to borrow into an economy that will show no returns on that investment.
Re-nationalising the railways will cost a fortune in penalties paid to the franchisees. The same with the power industries.
Having travelled by train whilst it was good old British Rail, I have no wish to go back to those back breaking, unreliable services.
How about the fortune lost to the country's coffers by selling these state owned industries off on the cheap and government inviting their mates to buy shares? I'm not saying old style nationalisation was a good thing, but let's not be one eyed about this
We'll leave the IRA thing Geoff as we'll never agree - we appraoch things from a different perspective. Now rail nationisation: of course the franchised companies do so well don't they? Great new rolling stock -how old are the Sprinters? - always enough carriages, simple and affordable fares with an easily understood and navigated fare structure and timetabling... whilst enormous subsidies paid to them end up in dividends to offshore shareholders... yes, privatisation has worked so well...
The reason the old BR failed to provide a service was the chronic failure to invest by Mrs T and the intellectual midgets she employed as chancellors starving investment.
um that's not the only reason Will. The Unions did a pretty good job of making them uncompetitive too. What do you think of Corbyn's idea that nationalisation 2.0 means a committee of all parties including the public?
At the minute I think it's a work in progress concept, Marc.But better than leaving things in the current awful state. Geoff for one would have benefited, I'm sure, from the (quickly broken) promise to upgrade the trans pennine rail links, for which there would be proper funding if the money wasn't being wasted on dividends
The problem is, if it's not 'wasted on dividends' it's going to have to go out in interest payments
Jim wrote: "The problem is, if it's not 'wasted on dividends' it's going to have to go out in interest payments"Either way, the bankers get the money. And make no mistake, if you break the contracts the cost will be punitive.
You'll also need to factor in much higher interest rates on the loans you need to raise to fund the nationalisation. This will be higher because we as a country will no longer be trusted to keep to our agreements.
Jim, the franchises already pay some interest: why do you suspect additional funding is required, except for new rolling stock? We aren't trusted to keep agreements now, Geoff. Osborne didn't keep the AAA rating, don't forget, due to poor economic performance. Also, do not forget that Nationalisation is both easy and cheap: just don't renew the franchise when it expires, as there is I believe no automatic renewal built in.
Well given that rolling stock is built to government specifications I'm not holding my breath on that one :-( (I've got mates who are seriously into trains)Looking at the effect government has had on the system already I cannot see how government will improve it.
But what I was meaning was that any investment will have to be funded (Transpennine etc) and the money will have to be borrowed. God have mercy on us if they try to push it through on PFI.
Any body lending to us will expect a commercial rate of interest, which might cost more than paying dividends, especially as you don't have to pay dividends if you're not running at a profit. If you don't pay interest,it automatically mounts up.
Having spent my entire working life in an industry that the government has been trying to micromanage, I no longer have faith in their ability to run anything.
But back to the leadership.. I am unimpressed by any of the other three.No vision, no policies (besides vote for meeeeeeeee) and no fire to oppose. Anyone like any of them? And if so why?
Will wrote: "But back to the leadership.. I am unimpressed by any of the other three.No vision, no policies (besides vote for meeeeeeeee) and no fire to oppose. Anyone like any of them? And if so why?"
The problem with Corbyn is that I've glanced at reports of what he's said, probably caught bits of him on radio 4, but I've never actually listened to him.
And the reason why is that what I've heard just sounds like one side of the arguments we had in the 6th form back in the 1970s. I've been there, I've seen that, I'm not particularly interested.
I think he really ought to go and read Neil Kinnock's speech from Brighton in 1987
http://www.britishpoliticalspeech.org...
It's the one where he said "Ron Todd made the point with deadly accuracy just a couple of months ago when he asked: ‘what do you say to a docker who earns 243400 a week, owns his house, a new car, a microwave and a video, as well as a small place near Marbella?’ ‘You do not say,’ said Ron, ‘let me take you out of your misery, brother.’ "
Compared to Kinnock I don't think any of the four candidates are up to the mark
while the individual talent isn't there, the contradiction at the heart of the modern Labour party looks insoluble to me whoever got the gig
Patti (baconater) wrote: "Nope. I've never met him, Marc."I saw him speak once back in the 70s. He was entertaining and quite interesting. I've tried a couple of his books as well, though, and I can't get past a few pages. Probably just a reflection of how shallow I am.
David wrote: "I saw him speak once back in the 70s. He was entertaining and quite interesting. I've tried a couple of his books as well, though, and I can't get past a few pages. Probably just a reflection of how shallow I am. ..."I've never even been tempted to read any of his books :-)
(When dealing with the modern 'great intellectuals' I tend to adopt a marxist perspective that really, it's not individual people, it's all forces and the movement of history. This means I don't actually feel the need to read their stuff.
But when dealing with real history, the individuals do have an impact. But they're dead and if they're still read after three or four hundred years, they're probably worth checking out :-)
That's a terribly polite piece of reporting from the Mirror - Mr This, Mr That and Ms The Other.Politics is (are?) getting more interesting by the day.
if the Mirror doesn't support him or the fate of the Labour Party, who else would? In its own way the Mirror is as blindly loyal as the Mail
Jim wrote: "David wrote: "I saw him speak once back in the 70s. He was entertaining and quite interesting. I've tried a couple of his books as well, though, and I can't get past a few pages. Probably just a re..."Now that sounds like an excellent philosophy!
On the training this morning. Standing room only. Service still as bad as it was last year, but tickets more expensive...
Marc wrote: "'training'?"Train. bloody predictive text!
Can somebody explain why the Conservatives are against rail nationalisation, but are happy to let foreign, state owned railways buy up rail companies in the UK?
R.M.F wrote: "Can somebody explain why the Conservatives are against rail nationalisation, but are happy to let foreign, state owned railways buy up rail companies in the UK?"Cuz the conservatives suck.
No one seems to have come up with a better explanation.
Two party systems suck.Which is what 'democracy' is, these days.
We've outgrown democracy..
Because nationalisation is as bad as privatisation. Both fail.Privatisation = expensive fares, overcrowding, poor accountability.
Public ownership = strikes, underinvestment, late running, bureaucracy, no accountability.
Having used trains under both regimes, privatisation is marginally better.
Following on from Geoff's point, it strikes me that 'private enterprise' when it gets large enough and established enough, can have all the vices of bureaucracy and public ownership.The problem with bureaucracy (other than the ones Geoff mentioned) is that it seems impossible to stop it growing. Even if you put in freezes and limits, it spawns off agencies where the staff are all on similar terms and conditions and are effectively part of the bureaucracy
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.
It gets worse that that. The bureaucracy now costs that much that it can no longer actually afford to do the things we had a bureaucracy for. So we're having to get in volunteers to do the actual stuff that matters.Then we get a new layer of bureaucracy monitoring the volunteers and making sure they do things according to procedures.
Jim wrote: "Following on from Geoff's point, it strikes me that 'private enterprise' when it gets large enough and established enough, can have all the vices of bureaucracy and public ownership.The problem w..."
as predicted by Max Weber & Franz Kafka, the latter in far more entertaining a fashion
To my earlier point: can anyone find anything positive at all to say about Anyone But CORBYN (to quote Alistair campbell)? Edit to make it clear that this is about the other 3, not JCJim, I think the reason you harken back to the 1970 s is because we are again seeing the 1970s replay. We have huge, and growing social inequality, our children finding that it is impossible to even contemplate buying a house unless you come from a rich background: house rents rising in a disproportionate manner to income (see above - who the hell can afford to pay £ 1000 a month in rent? And why should the state subsidise such a huge rental payment for those on benefits?) and making saving for a deposit impossible: shrinking investment in our infrastructure: University education being returned to the province of those well off enough to fund their children through those years: a growing perception (right or wrong) that the country is being run for the benefit of a small group of rich people...
Is it any wonder that the arguments from the 1970s are suddenly relevant again?
A lot of the problems are also caused by government. I went to a red brick working class grammar school where the sons of labourers, fitters and turners, and all sorts of other people got to university and became Doctors, lawyers and suchlike.But they scrapped the grammar schools.
And as for house prices, given that government and local authorities have been clamping down on planning permission and driving the house prices up (to the delight of those who already own a house, we could pretty soon get house prices down.
But with regard to the 'Anybody but Corbyn'. Frankly it shows how far the labour party has lost its way when someone can even come up with the slogan.
What we want is people leading the labour party who've actually done a proper job. Not just gone into an industry as a paid union rep but done the job and the ground before working their way up the union (if that' s the way they've advanced.)
Not just in manufacturing, but where's the Labour MP who has worked in a call centre or a fast food outlet.
If labour stands for anything it stands for those people, and it cannot stand for them by being a collection of well heeled middle class types
Modern Britain 2015: A tale of two justice systems.Case 1: Woman. Benefits sanctioned. No money. Hadn't eaten in days. Steals mars bar worth 75p.
Judge/magistrate: £400 fine and custodial sentence.
Case 2: Rich kid. Gets angry and glasses 2 people in a pub, causing facial disfigurement to victims.
Judge/magistrate: you said sorry and that's good enough for me. No custodial sentence as it would harm your career...
It will only get worse, RMF. Meanwhile, I have a client who is on Police bail after being accused of an offence, which he strenuously and credibly denies: the CPS have elected to take the case to trial, and he has been waiting for a trial for over 2 years.If he is innocent, that is a national disgrace. If he is guilty, it's appalling inefficiency.
And on the labour party elections: as a registered voter, last night i had 3 campaign teams for the deputy leadership ring me up In each case, I asked what actual policies their candidate espoused. In each case, I was told 'none, they were waiting to see who the leader was going to be'. One actually said that having policies wasn't the Deputy Leader's job.In other words, just more careerists with nothing to offer but their personal ambition. Much as I despise Thatcher and everything she stood for, at least she believed in something. This lot are just awful.
It's amazing the difference that an expensive lawyer can make.Lord Janner was a no-show in court today. I hope the old prick 'falls down the stairs'.
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(and blame Patti for this)
https://jandbvwebster.wordpress.com/2...