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message 5651: by Marc (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments this affects fiction writing as well I find Lynne. Instead of writing about what we all share as humans, there is a tendency to fracture ourselves down the rabbit hole of personal identity, following a character in their personal search for identity that often leaves a large proportion of potential readership out in the cold.


Lynne (Tigger's Mum) | 4643 comments Oooh don't get me on that one Marc. I've never been so cross as when I heard the children's laureate say there weren't any books written for black children. Good.! In a child's book your hero/ heroine or gang member can be what the reader imagines.
Writing for a niche market to me means the author has found a money spinner and is going to sell to it. A good writer writes from the heart his ideas and stories considering the marketing afterwards.


message 5653: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Lynne (Tigger's Mum) wrote: "Oooh don't get me on that one Marc. I've never been so cross as when I heard the children's laureate say there weren't any books written for black children. Good.! In a child's book your hero/ hero..."

spot on there :-)


message 5654: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments I'm sorry
I'm just nauseated. The ashes of Grenfell tower aren't even cool and already the party meme spinners have gone into action. We're getting as bad as the USA :-(


message 5655: by Patti (baconater) (new)

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 56525 comments 'Investigation'
'No action until studies have been made.'

Say what you will about living under a dictatorship, there's no fucking about.
Whoever signed off on purchasing that cladding should have been arrested by now. It's not rocket science.


message 5656: by Jim (last edited Jun 16, 2017 10:27PM) (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Too true. Or somebody would have been arrested, depending on how close they are to the inner circle.

The problem is that it's going to be messy because it's stretched over several governments. It started off as a sensible policy to insulate buildings retrospectively to a required 'green' standard
Not only that but to give an idea of how messy it all is, the new labour MP of the constituency was on the area's housing scrutiny committee, was council-appointed board member of Kensington and Chelsea TMO and is She is a member of the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority

A lot of people of all parties are attacking other people to shift attention away from themselves


Lynne (Tigger's Mum) | 4643 comments Add to the mix that the papers are printing absolutely rubbish. I read that the type of cladding fitted was flammable but other available cladding with a non combustible filling costs £2 more per sq metre which is correct but the paper then said the contractors decided to fit the cheaper option. There's no way a contractor makes that decision unless it's a towering inferno situation. A. contractor only fits what the architect or quantity surveyor orders unless the contractor illegally substitutes a cheaper material.


message 5658: by Patti (baconater) (new)

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 56525 comments Should be easy enough to find out who signed the purchase order, you'd think.


Lynne (Tigger's Mum) | 4643 comments Exactly, unless it's been done illegally to make money it's all traceable. I saw that Baku fire link you put up, it wasn't the first or only one by any means so you'd think architects/QS's /planners/fire officers etc would see the news and read professional journals about such occurrences. It's unbelievable such materials are still being used and produced for future projects.


Rosemary (grooving with the Picts) (nosemanny) | 8590 comments Just reading that Tresemme has cancelled next year's Queen's Speech. Our descent into fascism continues.


message 5661: by Patti (baconater) (new)

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 56525 comments Who has done what now???


Rosemary (grooving with the Picts) (nosemanny) | 8590 comments Theresa May. Her name sounds like that shampoo brand the way some people say it. Basically she's giving herself a two year Parliament to "ensure the government delivers Brexit".


message 5663: by Patti (baconater) (new)

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 56525 comments Ah. You're right it does sound like that.

I hadn't read about that.

Don't think it'll take much more before she's gonna be forced to step down as leader.

Having said that, I expected trump to be impeached by now, so I probably know sweet FA.


message 5664: by Jim (last edited Jun 17, 2017 10:40PM) (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Rosemary (grooving with the Picts) wrote: "Just reading that Tresemme has cancelled next year's Queen's Speech. Our descent into fascism continues."

the cancelling of the Queen's speech isn't a particularly big deal to be honest, it was cancelled in 2011 and Nick Clegg wanted it cancelled in 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politic...

As for making it easier for May to remain PM, it's neither here nor there. The only way she can avoid votes is by not having stuff to vote on. Actually that's quite a good thing and we have far too much new legislation, and a government that doesn't just keep bringing in more has my vote :-)
But at some point there will be a budget, or something similar that will have to be voted on.
The Queen's speech is merely the crown announcing what the government is going to do. So if the government is concentrating on brexit and doing not much else, then you don't need a speech


message 5665: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Patti (baconater) wrote: "Having said that, I expected trump to be impeached by now,..."

democracies have checks and balances built into them to ensure that it's difficult for the political opponents of an elected leader to unseat them.
If it becomes too easy for an established elite to dispose of a government they don't approve of, you cannot have democracy


message 5666: by Patti (baconater) (new)

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 56525 comments You have such a nice way of saying 'suck it up', Jim. ;)


message 5667: by Lynne (Tigger's Mum) (last edited Jun 17, 2017 11:53PM) (new)

Lynne (Tigger's Mum) | 4643 comments When my OH worked, one of his duties was coordinator for the ambulances in any emergency. We had several, a very large oil spill with a tanker on the rocks and Texaco oil refinery caught fire so he knows how disaster planning should work. This always comes under the local authority. Whatever time of day or night the response team should be up and running. Where is the Mayor in all this shambles in London? He seems to be keeping a very low profile but it's not central governments job to organise social services, emergency housing etc. It's his job. Yes he has the duty to call on whatever services he needs from government but people aren't asking the right questions.


message 5668: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Patti (baconater) wrote: "You have such a nice way of saying 'suck it up', Jim. ;)"

very English and charming.
But don't worry, if you're upset we'll send the leader of the opposition round with a camera team to give you a big hug and kiss it better :-)


message 5669: by Patti (baconater) (new)

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 56525 comments Actually, I'd quite enjoy a natter down the pub with Jeremy. You'd have to join us. Would probably be more rewarding than attending a garden party with mar'm.
A sit down with Ms May? I think a lean is more likely. She'd be more comfortable, what with that stick up her arse...


message 5670: by Lynne (Tigger's Mum) (last edited Jun 18, 2017 01:46AM) (new)

Lynne (Tigger's Mum) | 4643 comments Jeremy projects a very chummy man of the people image but his three cohorts behind him, Abbott, McDonnell , Lady Nugee -Thornberry scare the shit out of me. I'm not a fan of May either.


message 5671: by Marc (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments Sadiq Khan has been down there & got clog. But the Council whose responsibility it is first and foremost have not showed themselves at all - they deserve the most censure.

But then that's entirely consistent with their policies of social cleansing for the last 30+ years. I blogged about yesterday it if anyone's interested, let me know & I'll post link


Lynne (Tigger's Mum) | 4643 comments It sounds quite disorganised, I have a pal in the Met who said she's on morgue duty this weekend so she's in the sharp end of the disaster. She defended some council actions as they wanted to organise the charity distribution but the volunteers had taken most of the suitable venues and we're struggling to co-ordinate their own stuff but that was my point. In the event of a disaster like this there should have been a team on standby. Even in our rural setting they have practices, hospitals, fire brigade, coast guard ambulance right down to council clean up for afterwards. etc for ferry accidents, refineries incidents. I can see none of this in London Nd I'm shocked but not surprised. Not criticising Khan is the elephant in the room it seems.


Lynne (Tigger's Mum) | 4643 comments Marc wrote: "Sadiq Khan has been down there & got clog. But the Council whose responsibility it is first and foremost have not showed themselves at all - they deserve the most censure.

But then that's entirely..."


Yes please Marc, post the link.


message 5674: by Marc (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments ok, here it is

http://sulcicollective.blogspot.com/2...

It starts off with an explanation of West London for those unfamiliar with it - you can skip that quite easily


message 5675: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Lynne (Tigger's Mum) wrote: "Even in our rural setting they have practices, hospitals, fire brigade, coast guard ambulance right down to council clean up for afterwards. etc for ferry accidents, refineries incidents. ..."

Actually I think you'll find that rural areas have far better resilience planning. Certainly Cumbria does, what with FMD, numerous flooding incidents and similar there is a lot of planning with all the voluntary agencies included.
Basically with the last flooding, Cumbria County Council worked with the resilience task force and basically told the London based Cobra committee what was needed, why and when.
Actually that worked reasonably well because Cobra doesn't know what's happening on the ground and to be honest there isn't much it can do other than offer money or other resources.

Admittedly we never got a leader of the opposition coming up to kiss us better but we seem to have struggled on in spite of that :-)

Seriously I do wonder if London has too much government and not enough community


message 5676: by Marc (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments Jim i would have thought that the response to both Borough market & Grenfell shows that we have community a plenty, no less than Manchester showed after the bombing there. Of course the scale is different, but communities like North Kensington have very similar needs and issues to deprived urban communities anywhere else in the country


message 5677: by Anna (new)

Anna Faversham (annafaversham) | 1752 comments I don't understand everyone saying TM should have been comforting those dispossessed earlier.

I can see cheering on the flagging fire service is a good thing to do.

The last thing I would want if I were saved from a fire but lost everything I held dear, is to have Jeremy Corbyn, Theresa May, Boris et al coming to see if I am all right.

All I'd want is somewhere warm and comfortable to sleep, food, and someone offering a plan for the future. I'd be looking to the council to help perhaps through, initially, charities which are used to dealing with housing the homeless and feeding those in need - or anybody who can do this.

Jeremy Corbyn and his (unknown to me) close circle, or Theresa May and her cabinet - please don't visit me, please get on with your jobs and do them well.

We have the Queen and other members of the Royal Family to represent caring on behalf of the nation. And bless them - they did that.

And now that you've got me started (!!!) flowers are a sign of respect but donations for installing sprinklers where needed might be more useful in saving lives. Has something been set up for all us concerned folk to do this useful thing?

You're in luck, I've got to attend to lunch, so I have to clear off.


message 5678: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Marc wrote: "Jim i would have thought that the response to both Borough market & Grenfell shows that we have community a plenty, no less than Manchester showed after the bombing there. Of course the scale is di..."

the scale is different and so is the sense of community. In Cumbria now our resilience planning (tested repeatedly in action) is at a level where when there was flooding the volunteers were already using the public buildings because it had been organised before the event. So if there's flooding, a voluntary coordinator will unlock the school and the volunteers will move in and get things ready. When 'the balloon goes up' the local resilience teams (volunteers) will move into place and take over working with the emergency services and others.
Some of the volunteers might be local government employees and teachers but that's not entirely relevant.
So in Cumbria with the flooding, volunteers are manning help lines and getting things ready the moment water levels reach a critical level. If there was different type of emergency then the same volunteers are engaged.
I mention flooding because that's what has been tested in action. Here we had people who had to travel through rising water to get to the coordination centre and who couldn't go home for several days because the roads were blocked between them and home


Lynne (Tigger's Mum) | 4643 comments The one incident that really worried them was the call regarding the air India crash in the 1980's which actually came down in Irish airspace, they were told to expect in excess of 300 deaths .
I heard a man from a Moslem aid charity on the radio at lunchtime who co-ordinated help in Syria where he said he expected chaos but he was shocked to have so little organisation in London.


message 5680: by Marc (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments Complacency and a complete disregard of the vulnerable & needy by an elitist council running the most expensive property borough in the UK


message 5681: by Lynne (Tigger's Mum) (last edited Jun 18, 2017 10:41AM) (new)

Lynne (Tigger's Mum) | 4643 comments I've read your blog and listened to the CEO of the council at lunchtime on radio 4. He had the gall to talk about expenditure. Thank you for your input. You certainly know what you're talking about, that CEO still hasn't a clue. He talked about what the residents needed, empathy etc.
They need practical solutions to solve their immediate housing needs not more weasel words. The community has really come to their aid but it would still have been more effective had someone been able to direct and co-ordinate aid.


message 5682: by Marc (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments couldn't put it better myself. Thank you.


message 5683: by Patti (baconater) (new)

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 56525 comments Yep, I learned a lot from that blog post. Thanks Marc.

I'm going to share it on my Facebook.


message 5684: by Marc (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments TY x


message 5685: by Patti (baconater) (new)

Patti (baconater) (goldengreene) | 56525 comments Dave said you weren't talking out of your arse. High praise from him.


message 5686: by Marc (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments I'll take that :-)


message 5687: by Jim (last edited Jun 18, 2017 10:34AM) (new)

Jim | 21809 comments It was an insightful piece Marc. It gave me an insight into an area that I don't know and incidentally showed me just how different London is to much of the rest of the country (not necessarily in a good or a bad way, it's just that experience elsewhere cannot be casually used to look at London problems, and London experience can lead you astray if you use it elsewhere)


message 5688: by Marc (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments agreed


message 5689: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Marc wrote: "agreed"

just to give an example, in Cumbria most communities of up to 3000 people would hope to have some newly retired teachers or professionals
Not only that but I doubt there are many Cumbria communities who don't have a strong core of families who've been there for three or more generations, with the network of relationships and loyalties that can bring about.

Some of our problems are entirely different, for example transport is so intractable they've giving up talking about it and merely mention 'access' as an issue. I know the case of one young man who walked over 20 miles to get to his magistrate hearing


message 5690: by Marc (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments couldn't he steal another car?

I'd like 27 other offences to be taken into consideration etc...


message 5691: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Marc wrote: "couldn't he steal another car?

I'd like 27 other offences to be taken into consideration etc..."


I think he was being done for some minor public order offence. He arrived late and the magistrate was distinctly stroppy until he realised what had happened.
Listening to the lad he commented that the 20 mile walk was a tougher penalty than he'd have imposed (the lad had had to leave home before 5am) and instructed the police to give him a lift home :-)
Some places up there you'd probably have to walk three or four miles to find a car to steal :-)


message 5692: by Marc (new)

Marc Nash (sulci) | 4313 comments I preferred our old justice system of rough music & bread riots


message 5693: by R.M.F. (new)

R.M.F. Brown | 2124 comments My elderly father (80 years old) is convinced the solution to this nation's woes is these three things:

1. Corporal punishment in schools.

2. A gallows in every prison

3. New Zealand lamb for sale in every shop. I don't think he ever got over Ted Heath taking us into the EEC.

Yeah, its reactionary solutions to say the least, but a lot of old people I know seem to think the same.


message 5694: by Michael (new)

Michael Cargill (michaelcargill) | 2992 comments If old people are so clever, why are they all dying?


message 5695: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth White | 1761 comments Michael Cargill wrote: "If old people are so clever, why are they all dying?"

Possibly they believe in a better life elsewhere...


message 5696: by Jim (new)

Jim | 21809 comments Elizabeth wrote: "Michael Cargill wrote: "If old people are so clever, why are they all dying?"

Possibly they believe in a better life elsewhere..."


or perhaps they've come to the conclusion that it's best to leave now and avoid the rush?


message 5697: by Will (new)

Will Macmillan Jones (willmacmillanjones) | 11324 comments Jim wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Michael Cargill wrote: "If old people are so clever, why are they all dying?"

Possibly they believe in a better life elsewhere..."

or perhaps they've come to the conclusion that..."


And the paperwork.


message 5698: by David (new)

David Edwards | 417 comments In order to cling to power, Theresa May is going to pay £150 million of somebody else's (i.e. our) money per vote. Barclays Bank and its former senior executives have just been prosecuted for analogous behaviour ..


message 5699: by Michael (new)

Michael Cargill (michaelcargill) | 2992 comments We can't afford public services because Corbyn's Magic Money Tree is bare, but thankfully Theresa May's Bribery Bush is flowering nicely.


message 5700: by Michael (new)

Michael Cargill (michaelcargill) | 2992 comments


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