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message 5451:
by
David
(new)
May 22, 2017 11:07AM
Tyranny and Usurpation are orthogonal concepts. Tyranny simply means oppressive power, or a government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler, whilst a tyrant is an absolute ruler who governs without restrictions. Taking her own words at face value, Theresa May isn't strong on tolerance for divergent opinions, and she is manoeuvring to get herself into a position where she won't ever have to bother about them ever again.
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More from page 43 of the Conservative Manifesto.We will legislate to ensure that a form of identification must be presented before voting,
Theresa May is instinctively authoritarian. How long before ID Cards are back on the table?
some strong and stable flip-flopping over social care there...Manifestos clearly no longer to be taken as anything useful when they get retracted during the campaign, not even waiting until in government like the normal timespan is.
May really was bleeding votes with that policy. But she's said sorry and all those older voters will doubtlessly and seamless return to the fold.
I'm an older voter, and I want nothing to do with her!
Marc wrote: "one of few..."Interesting the assumption that the young are left wing. Somebody commented on facebook they had unfriended people who liked 'Britain First.'
(If you go to the webpage it tells you who amongst your friends have liked it.)
I went to look out of interest and was surprised how young the people I know who liked it were.
I don't extrapolate out from most old people voting Tory to most young people being left leaning at all. I have twin 19 year olds, one is a member of the Lib-Dems, the other favours UKIP
Marc wrote: I have twin 19 year olds, one is a member of the Lib-Dems, the other favours UKIPThat's twins for you. I have twin cousins. One is a Corbyn fan, the other a Tory minister!
Yeah, I have a mate in England who is a member of UKIP, and here's me a Scottish nationalist. We don't that much about politics :)
Just a party political broadcast. We now have party units dedicated to swamping social media with their material.
And why not? It's effective.
Patti (baconater) wrote: "And why not? It's effective."Is it? I genuinely don't know.
It'll probably cheer the committed, irritate the opposition into remembering to go out to vote and the floating voters will be bombarded by all sides equally and will probably treat it in the same way as they treat the election circulars than come through the letter box.
I wonder if the next political scandal is the money spent on producing these. If it's party people sitting in an office it has to be costed for election spending.
It's a darkly fascinating subject for accountants,
https://www.electoralcommission.org.u...
"Downloadable material
If you put material on a website for people to print off for their
personal use, such as window posters or petition forms, the
design and website costs count as campaign spending. You do
not need to count people’s print costs against your spending
limit, as the costs will be very low. "
Now that can be downloaded, but rarely will be, but obviously can be shared which is the new 'downloaded'
But what about the person doing the work?
"What doesn’t count as spending?
• Permanent, fixed term or temporary staff costs where the staff
member has a direct employment contract with the party
• Volunteer time
• Office running costs, except costs that are higher than usual
because of campaigning, such as telephone bills
• People’s travel, food and accommodation costs while they
campaign, unless you reimburse them
• Expenses met out of public funds. For example, security
costs for VIP visits
• Anything which a candidate declares on their spending return
Volunteer time
Sometimes you may not be sure if someone is a volunteer or if
their time should be treated as notional spending. For example,
they may offer similar services professionally to the ones they are
performing for you.
They will be a volunteer if:
Their employer is not paying them for the time they spend on
your campaign, or
They are using their annual leave, or
Where they are self-employed, you won’t benefit from any
professional insurances they hold
If they use specialist equipment or materials, you should
consider whether their use is notional spending, using the
principles in the next section. "
But was your volunteer using specialist equipment owned by their employer at which point you end up having to book their support down as notional spending
It's a real joy to watch such a minefield develop. There was something of a scandal over the last election because the Conservative party was wrongly allocating the costs of buses they used to move volunteers about. They allocated them to central office rather than the constituency in which they worked.
Interesting the Labour party didn't kick up a fuss over this, mainly because their own system had been so ad hoc and disorganised that they hadn't really got a clue who'd paid for the vehicles they'd used. These had often been hired on the spot by the volunteers, sometimes without the volunteer being reimbursed. A generous gesture, but was the donation properly recorded?
At some point the rules will be extended to cover facebook stuff
I'm in two minds over this social media canvassing stuff. I am not a member of any party, nor I am on FB, so I have received precisely zero communications targeting my vote from any party. Mind you nor have I received a canvasser in the flesh despite the fact we are a marginal that is on Labour's hit list of winnable seats. I have had 3 old fashioned leaflets from Tories, & 1 each from LibDems & Labour. My son who is a member of LibDems but is away doing his exams at Uni has serveal things from them through the mail awaiting him (interestingly he is partially disenfranchised by his own party as his Uni is in Brighton & the LibDems are not fielding a candidate there to help the Greens hold their seat in an anti-Brexit alliance). So if he wants to vote for the party he is a member of, he's going to have to come back home to London to do so. However, there is a far more insidious use of the data obtainable from your social media accounts which was used by the Trump campaign with great success. Particularly deriving from FB data, personalised targeting could be done by monitoring your interests and leanings and adapting the nature of the message sent to you to ensure it focused on what you were interested in. The designers of the tech claim they could target every individual citizen with a personalised message.
I can only assume that our parties are too impoverished to adopt this technology.
I can also only assume Putin isn't all that bothered by the outcome to interfere in our election. We're coming out of the EU, so that suits him and his goal to destroy the institution.
Today a YouGov (G4S) poll puts Corbyn's 'Unelectable' labour party within 3 points of may's Conservatives.And it was taken before last night's debate.
You might find this article interesting. The chap from yougov discussing polling and how they're doing itHe's not saying he's right, he's saying that it's all got very experimental because of the way they screwed up in the past. I found it fascinating
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/01/...
I get asked to take part in the Yougov polls. They are scrupulous about asking about past voting patterns as well as voting intentions, to see if the respondent does actually bother to get out and vote.
Will wrote: "I get asked to take part in the Yougov polls. They are scrupulous about asking about past voting patterns as well as voting intentions, to see if the respondent does actually bother to get out and ..."Just to second that, I've had exactly the same experience.
It's going to be interesting to see which polling method works
never been pooled in my life. No canvassers... I must have a forcefield around me
Will wrote: "Today a YouGov (G4S) poll puts Corbyn's 'Unelectable' labour party within 3 points of may's Conservatives.And it was taken before last night's debate."
do you honestly credit the Tories aren't going to win with a 35+ majority? Where are the seats Labour are going to capture from the Tories? Not in Scotland, if anything Tories will win a few from SNP. In England? Where exactly? Who will UKIP's Brexit votes go to, Labour or Tory? Labour will even lose a few seats in its London stronghold. Tell me where these mythical Labour gains are going to be?
Marc wrote: "never been pooled in my life. No canvassers... I must have a forcefield around me"with yougov I actually signed up to them as a way of seeing how they work :-)
ah that's interesting to know, thanks JimBTW glad you managed to read 'pooled' as 'polled'
Marc wrote: "ah that's interesting to know, thanks JimBTW glad you managed to read 'pooled' as 'polled'"
I have autocorrect fitted :-)
Somebody who is as hacked off by the whole thing as I am shared this with me :-)
Sums up the election for me to be honest
where do the residents of Dunstable get transported to for their holidays?
Marc wrote: "where do the residents of Dunstable get transported to for their holidays?"that is one of those deeply philosophical questions, like 'how does the snow plough driver get to work'.
Personally, for purely literary reasons I'd suggest Slough :-)
(In reality Dunstable may be such a delightful place that they never want to leave it anyway so the problem ceases to exist)
Ive been to Dunstable. It's nice when it's dry. Very much as the Lakes are. ;)
Patti (baconater) wrote: "Ive been to Dunstable. It's nice when it's dry. Very much as the Lakes are. ;)"so you're not tempted by the intimate touches, suitcase of tenners and the turdless garden then :-)
Patti (baconater) wrote: "I'll have the champagne."well obviously you don't need the reversal of the aging process
You silver tongued devil, you.
Patti (baconater) wrote: "Ive been to Dunstable. It's nice when it's dry. Very much as the Lakes are. ;)"Never been to Dunstable. Have been to the Lakes when they are dry though (very dry - we have photos of the bridge that is usually under water in the middle of one of the lakes). But I like the lakes even when wet. We once walked up Honister Pass in a downpour but were still happy.
Patti (baconater) wrote: "You silver tongued devil, you."channeling my inner Tallis Steelyard :-)
Jay-me (Janet) wrote: "Never been to Dunstable. Have been to the Lakes when they are dry though (very dry - we have photos of the bridge that is usually under water in the middle of one of the lakes). But I like the lakes even when wet. We once walked up Honister Pass in a downpour but were still happy. ..."In Cumbria we lace the rain with euphorics for a better consumer experience
Jim wrote: "Jay-me (Janet) wrote: "Never been to Dunstable. Have been to the Lakes when they are dry though (very dry - we have photos of the bridge that is usually under water in the middle of one of the lake..."As a resident of the North of England, would you be receptive to either:
a) SNP candidates standing in the North of England?
b) A new political party standing up for the NoE (let's call it Northern League for argument's sake) which was allied to the SNP, much like the SDLP in NI.
I ask this, because it's a hot issue again up here in Scotland. Clearly, and for obvious reasons, the SNP are looking at hitting another glass ceiling next Thursday, so this issue has popped up again.
The Northern League was basically a crypto-fascist party in Italy, helped launch Berlusconi to power and currently ally with LePen's National Front and the fascist parties in both Holland & Austria.
R.M.F wrote: "As a resident of the North of England, would you be receptive to either: a) SNP candidates standing in the North of England?
b) A new political party standing up for the NoE (let's call it Northern League for argument's sake) which was allied to the SNP, much like the SDLP in NI.
I ask this, because it's a hot issue again up here in Scotland. Clearly, and for obvious reasons, the SNP are looking at hitting another glass ceiling next Thursday, so this issue has popped up again.
..."
If you take the North of England as normally defined it has a population three times that of Scotland or thereabouts. Ask why on earth it would want to be run from Scotland?
On the other hand, if just over 5 million Scots warrant 129 seats in the Scottish parliament, (41,000 people a seat), if the north of England came into Scotland, you'd need another 364 seats for us.
As for the North of England voting for SNP candidates in Westminster elections, forget it, why should somebody in Manchester vote for the SNP rather than Labour? In England all we ever hear of the SNP is them whining that it's all the English fault and demanding another referendum. Also from this side of the border they don't appear to be making a particularly good job of running their country. The general perception seems to be that the Scots do OK because they get a bigger cut from the public purse. When you get English Students having to pay in Scottish universities when Scots and French students don't, it doesn't make for friendly feelings
None of these perceptions may be true, but it's what people perceive which is what matters
Marc wrote: "The Northern League was basically a crypto-fascist party in Italy, helped launch Berlusconi to power and currently ally with LePen's National Front and the fascist parties in both Holland & Austria.""(let's call it Northern League for argument's sake)"
Jim wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "As a resident of the North of England, would you be receptive to either: a) SNP candidates standing in the North of England?
b) A new political party standing up for the NoE (let'..."
It's just an idea that's been mooted. I appreciate the feedback.
So what to do with the North of England?
They moan about London hogging the limelight.
They didn't want devolution when it was offered.
And the SNP would be as welcome as a fox in a hen house.
Not much you can do there by the looks of it...
R.M.F wrote: "Marc wrote: "The Northern League was basically a crypto-fascist party in Italy, helped launch Berlusconi to power and currently ally with LePen's National Front and the fascist parties in both Holl..."(let's call it Northern League for argument's sake)""
I did it for the sake of argument
R.M.F wrote: "Jim wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "As a resident of the North of England, would you be receptive to either: a) SNP candidates standing in the North of England?
b) A new political party standing up for t..."
The solution is to let London go its own way and stop having the likes of you dragging us down
People in the North moan about London hogging the limelight, but there again we know London makes the money To be honest we'd be happy if we got as much of that money as the Scots do :-)
But remember a lot of us travel to London and come home rejoicing that we don't have to live down there to be part of making all that money. So we're by and large willing to let them got on with it
I wasn't being serious but we do get fed up with claims we get all the pie
Marc wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "Jim wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "As a resident of the North of England, would you be receptive to either: a) SNP candidates standing in the North of England?
b) A new political party sta..."
I'm a taxpayer. it's people like me who are the backbone of this nation.
As far as I can see up here, there's the feeling up here that as London makes most of the money it's fair enough they keep most of it. And frankly given the conditions you live in down there you need a lot more on infrastructureBut I think people get pissed off when told that if we want to see something we ought to just go to London to see it. Although to be fair it can be easier to get to get to London from here than Sheffield or Leeds :-)
Jim wrote: "As far as I can see up here, there's the feeling up here that as London makes most of the money it's fair enough they keep most of it. And frankly given the conditions you live in down there you ne..."To expand on my earlier point - that's what I'm talking about. The North of England needs political clout. So people wouldn't want to be run by the SNP, which is fair enough.
But if you had a new party dedicated to the North, fully independent, but willing to ally with the SNP, Greens etc etc on certain issues, then that extra political clout could get more for the north. Theoretically.
Brexit has opened up fault lines in Britain between North and South, rural and urban. In my opinion, there is a gap in the market for a dedicated north of England party.
Naturally, of course, that's for you guys to solve...
Marc wrote: "I wasn't being serious but we do get fed up with claims we get all the pie"Yeah, but it's true though, and then you expect the rest of us to be grateful for getting some crumbs off the table :)
who's telling you to come down to see something in London? Not the Londoners surely? We're too busy drinking Macchiatos and eating kale omlettes
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