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message 5401:
by
Marc
(new)
Apr 18, 2017 11:30AM
well well well, Channel 4 news suggesting there might be something in my little conspiracy theory...
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Which vote were people falling out over?
I'm hoping the French elections don't turn any more violent and are settled down by the time we go in May. I should be back in ime to vote here but we do have postal votes.
Interestingly, I was reading a piece in the Grauniad by Owen Jones today.He's been going round interviewing people about BREXIT. And suddenly discovered what most of us have known for a very long time. That whilst we might hold differing views, only a very small number of us actually froth at the mouth and scream abuse at those holding the opposite view. The majority just shrug and order another pint, or some more chips.
yes, social media has become an elephant's feet toilet for the politically incontinent :-(
Owen Jones once came to an Awards night my charity hold. He got his free Prosecco, had a look round who was in the reception, did the room, then cleared off as people were called in for the ceremony itself. Never liked him since then.
So the Tories put their party interest before the nation...again. And yet, people still vote for these corrupt and incompetent bastards...
I do wonder about the British people sometimes...
actually it's politically smart. Under the guise of people voting to secure a significant Parliamentary majority to push through Brexit, the Tories will also use that majority to push through brutal cuts to the Welfare State, privatisation of the NHS and reintroducing selective education. Be interesting to see how much of this they put in the manifesto. Very little I suspect
I wonder how much influence on her decision to call the election the coming prosecutions for Electoral Fraud had?
probably not a lot to be honest, I suspect it's one of those cases where nobody particularly cares.After all politicians who were shown to have taken the mickey with their expenses still ended up being re-elected
Thanks to the fact that all parties keep slagging each other off, all parties now start from a low base of expectation
I care! I hate corruption of any kind. I lived in Africa and you should see the results there.
I have Nigerian and Ghanaian friends and they regard our system as amazingly clean.Interestingly to them the expenses scandal was far worse, and far more dangerous to democracy than anything about electoral expenses
CPS is not going to prosecute Tory MPs over election fraud. Because a battle bus rolling into town and dropping off activists and campaign material is in no f*****g way influencing a local vote!
And now I'm hearing that at press conferences, our fawning media gives May questions in advance and May can veto the questions she doesn't like...
This country is f*****g corrupt beyond repair.
Banana republic of Britain...
So we can conclude that, contrary to popular belief, the EU isn't actually the biggest threat to UK democracy.
It's a bit more complicated than that. An interesting article looking at Lab and con https://www.channel4.com/news/by/mich...
Basically the parties and going to have to sit down and decide exactly what is and is not local and national
Michael Cargill wrote: "So we can conclude that, contrary to popular belief, the EU isn't actually the biggest threat to UK democracy."I'd vote for Brexit tomorrow, I have no regrets on that front, but Brexit isn't the problem. The problem is a corrupt and incompetent Conservative government.
Jim wrote: "It's a bit more complicated than that. An interesting article looking at Lab and con https://www.channel4.com/news/by/mich...
Basically the parties and goi..."
Since when was ignorance of the law a valid excuse in this nation?
Not having a go at you Jim, but the next honours list should make for interesting reading.
Jim wrote: "I have Nigerian and Ghanaian friends and they regard our system as amazingly clean.Interestingly to them the expenses scandal was far worse, and far more dangerous to democracy than anything about..."
Oh so true - in comparison. I lived in central Africa for some years and they didn't even bother to keep their corruption covert and when they did try cover-ups they were almost comical.
I hate corruption for itself and also for what it does to everyone, both the corrupters and the corruptees! Or should that be those corrupted upon? Or...
R.M.F wrote: "Since when was ignorance of the law a valid excuse in this nation? . ..."
when Ken Dodd was taken to court by the inland revenue and got off because the regulations were so complicated the judge couldn't understand them.
As far as I can tell in this case it wasn't that the expenses were hidden, they were declared, but in the wrong heading.
According to the article, none of the other political parties had kicked off about it, probably because they know they'll almost certainly have made similar mistakes.
Too much micromanagement producing impossible regulations. We've seen it in agriculture where the RPA has tried to take people to court and the court has said that the person may have broken the regulation but the regulation in itself is either incomprehensible, or the person had believed they were complying and it was not an unreasonable belief
Words have failed me on discovering that a pestilence called Neil Hamilton is standing in my consituency!
well he represents a point of view in brexit that you share no?That was the strange thing about the referendum & its aftermath, both sides discover they're in bed with some very strange allies
Will wrote: "Words have failed me on discovering that a pestilence called Neil Hamilton is standing in my consituency!"It may be some consolation to you that it seems to be down as a Plaid hold
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cg...
(interesting site by the way even if you disagree with it :-) )
ha ha ha, UKIP is predicted zero % in my London constituency. We have no truck with them at all down here in the big smoke
It's a very safe Plaid seat, Jim.Marc, no. He represents UKIP. I'm of the Dennis Skinner persuasion, that Brexit has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with anti authoritarianism and anti Neo Lib economics.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian the other day arguing that the Libdems should be really targetting those like me as their party used to believe in more democracy and less Government control.
But I definetly take your point that the split on the question has gone down some very odd lines indeed.
your second paragraph doesn't hold water I'm afraid. The referendum being a simple binary choice lumps you in with the UKIP pov. I wouldn't for one moment accuse you of being pro-UKIP, but like I say, strange bedfellows... If you're anti-neo Lib economics, Brexit has unleashed an admittedly unforeseeable chain of events that will only entrench such economics further.
Jim, the site has some interesting info. I wasn't aware that the average age in the UK was almost 49!
Strange indeed Marc, when voting Remain meant you linked arms with Osborne, Cameron and the likes of Branson and Mike Ashley, probably as detestable to both of us as UKIP, in my view. As to neo lib economics being entrenched, this GE was entirely unforseen and i don't think Brexit has anything really to do with it.
I think the poor French are about to get a solid dose of the Neo Libs too, with erosion of workers rights and more globalisation descending upon them: their car factories are being relocated to Romania or Poland, I believe?
exactly, I did say both sidesThis election is nothing to do with Brexit unity, it's going to deliver May a massive majority with which to dismantle the Welfare State, NHS & reintroduce selective education. All against the NeoLib buzzword of austerity, reduce the debt, plus our own impoverished position in the global trading market, worst case scenario, we lose the City Of London's primacy (strange bedfellow, me backing the City of London). Do you think in a post-Brexit Britain, our workers' rights are going to improve?
Ultimate scenario, the country that will be worst hit by Brexit - The British Virgin Islands, as we repatriate all the tax haven institutions and bring them home as our sole earner, laundering the money of Russian oligarchs rather than just letting them buy up our mansions.
Will wrote: "Jim, the site has some interesting info. I wasn't aware that the average age in the UK was almost 49!"the site has an awful lot of fascinating info. I don't know enough to data check it
Theresa May's pitch: "You'll be poorer, pay more taxes, pay more for services, there'll be a huge new bureaucracy to administer the Wealth Tax that is to force people needing long term social care to pay for it themselves plus loads of work for accountants and lawyers to figure out ways of avoiding it, but I'm Winston Churchill, you lucky people!"Why would anyone buy it???
why would anybody allow themselves to be swayed by what somebody said on social media?
Will wrote: "Words have failed me on discovering that a pestilence called Neil Hamilton is standing in my consituency!"The trough must be bigger at Westminster than at Cardiff. He gives me the creeps.
Lynne (Tigger's Mum) wrote: "Will wrote: "Words have failed me on discovering that a pestilence called Neil Hamilton is standing in my consituency!"The trough must be bigger at Westminster than at Cardiff. He gives me the cr..."
Then there's his wife...
Observer Poll:Corbyn's Labour Party on course for a bigger share of the vote than under Milliband
Jim wrote: why would anybody allow themselves to be swayed by what somebody said on social media?Why indeed?
Will wrote: "Observer Poll:Corbyn's Labour Party on course for a bigger share of the vote than under Milliband"
and less seats I would wager...
oh and that;'s before the Boundary Commission get down to their work in time for the next election
Would Neil Hamilton have to have given up his seat in the assembly to run in the GE? If he fails to be elected would he be out of both then or can he revert to being an AM if he hasn't given it up. It's an unusual situation.
May has nicked Ed Miliband's manifesto, and yet, according to the right-wing rags, that's not Marxism, but a thundering return to Conservatism...It's a strange day when a non-Tory Tory like May, is hailed as the bright new dawn of Conservative Britain. Another 5 years of these corrupt and incompetent bastards.
Page 43 of the Conservative Manifesto details their plans to establish a Tyranny of the Largest Minority.We will retain the first past the post system of voting for parliamentary elections and extend this system to police and crime commissioner and mayoral elections. We will retain the current franchise to vote in parliamentary elections at eighteen. We will repeal the Fixed-term Parliaments Act.
David wrote: "Page 43 of the Conservative Manifesto details their plans to establish a Tyranny of the Largest Minority.We will retain the first past the post system of voting for parliamentary elections and ex..."
By definition as these are things already in place they can hardly be said to establish a tyranny.
Actually it wouldn't technically be a tyranny as a tyrant by definition is one who has usurped legitimate sovereignty. If these things were wrong then the sovereignty usurped wasn't legitimate and if they were right then it isn't usurpation :-)
It was the other system that let Neil Hamilton into the Welsh assembly. Nuff said!
Marc wrote: "5 years? Try 50"I'm sure that eventually, Labour will conjure up Blair 2.0 from somewhere, somebody that won't spook Middle England, and will promise to keep bombing the hell out of the Middle East, whilst paying lip service to the Labour Old guard with a promise for free sweets for pensioners or something.
Elections will be won, and all will be deemed well in Labour again.
there won't be a Labour Party other than a meaningless rump
Setting aside party political points here, and ignoring the general election, I think the labour party has faced problems for a while.Devolution and the rise of Scottish nationalism meant that Labour suffered the loss of more seats than the tories. Indeed it seems that the tories are now growing in Scotland as the opposition to the SNP, who knows.
I think that labour is now involved in a fight with the libdems over who are the 'other' party. Who will form the government instead of the tories, and who will lead the opposition when the tories win.
Personally I could see circumstances where labour could shrink or split and the libdems grow, taking over a lot of English labour voters and even MPs.
So we'd still have a two party system, with minor parties winning in local areas. I'd guess that in reality the two parties would still have the same policies then as they do now. It'll just be the names have changed slightly
Labour was doomed before Corbyn won the leadership. Once Scotland has gone, it's left with 2 different wings that have nothing in common:the Metropolitan elite in the big cities, especially London (40+ seats) and the Northern urban areas which you might say is more traditionally working class in outlook. The North think London gets all the treats on offer and many voters took the opportunity of giving London a kicking in the Brexit vote. I can't see how these two wings can ever have shared ground and so no Labour leader can unite them, or his/her party
I think you summed up one major problem. This election looks especially interesting in Wales.It may be that in coming years Wales follows Scotland with the nationalists providing the left wing party and with the tories as the opposition.
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