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The 'Take it Outside' thread This thread will no longer be moderated ***
Will wrote: "So May wants to provide all EU citizens with their existing rights, on a reciprocal deal to protect UK citizens abroad, but 'a few' of the 27 are refusing to agree?I'm no May fan - quite the reve..."
Because it doesn't fit with the narrative of 'evil' Tories and 'good' EU, and I say that as somebody who despises the Conservative party.
whose narrative of the Good EU? Have you not seen the Express/Mail & Telegraph. perhaps you only consume Scottish newspapers who I presume are all pro-eu like your leaderine
She's receiving flak for all kinds of things, not just that.
Marc wrote: "whose narrative of the Good EU? Have you not seen the Express/Mail & Telegraph. perhaps you only consume Scottish newspapers who I presume are all pro-eu like your leaderine"She's not my leader.
As many will know, I voted leave. Brexit is not a problem for me, the problem is the Conservative party.
It's pretty clear what the Tories vision for Britain is:
If it's not nailed down, sell it off to any passing Sheikh or China, slash taxes, trade unions and other workers rights out the window, and generally continue the shambolic economic policies of the last 30 years, as though nothing has happened...
The world's biggest tax haven is not my idea of a bright future.
And as for our farmers, I feel sorry for any farmer having to deal with Andrea Leadsom. I'm surprised she hasn't told British farmers to start digging for victory.
R.M.F wrote: "Marc wrote: "whose narrative of the Good EU? Have you not seen the Express/Mail & Telegraph. perhaps you only consume Scottish newspapers who I presume are all pro-eu like your leaderine"She's not my leader"
She is the leader of the SNP who believe in Scottish Independence which you subscribe to as an ideal. Ergo she is your leader
So far it looks like we're getting Full Retard Brexit.The Tories are pandering to the anti-immigration crowd to ensure they get re-elected in 2020.
Marc wrote: "She is the leader of the SNP who believe in Scottish Independence which you subscribe to as an ideal. Ergo she is your leader ..."by that definition, anybody on the left in rest of the UK has Corbyn as their leader :-)
or the Greens or even the Lib-Dems. Or Sinn Fein!
Jim wrote: "Marc wrote: "She is the leader of the SNP who believe in Scottish Independence which you subscribe to as an ideal. Ergo she is your leader ..."by that definition, anybody on the left in rest of t..."
That works for me!
I voted for 'Remain'. I still hope that as the 'Leave' process proceeds the scales will fall from the eyes of those Brexitards who believed the lie that the bollocks inflicted on us all by Westminster was really the fault of the nasty EU, we then get a chance to vote on the deal, and sanity finally prevails. But the Brexiteers have a weak enough hand going in to the negotiation as it is; discarding the UK EU residents card would just make it worse.What I find most depressing about Theresa May's speech is the delusional notion that we can have more trade and less immigration. Look at the statistics for the year to June 2016. 175,000 non-EU non-Commonwealth immigrants; more than half the net immigrant total of 339,000. How can anyone imagine this number will fall if we really were to do more trade with the rest of the world? The EU's negotiators will not be fooled.
Brexiteer is a term I like - but Brexitard is really insulting! No matter whether you voted leave or remain - name calling of a derogatory nature in our group, really isn't acceptable David.
Marc wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "Marc wrote: "whose narrative of the Good EU? Have you not seen the Express/Mail & Telegraph. perhaps you only consume Scottish newspapers who I presume are all pro-eu like your leader..."I'm not a member of the SNP and there's more to Scottish independence than the SNP. The Green party supports it as well.
Michael Cargill wrote: "So far it looks like we're getting Full Retard Brexit.The Tories are pandering to the anti-immigration crowd to ensure they get re-elected in 2020."
To be fair, with Corbyn in charge of Labour, the Tories could push for a repeal of the 1830s corn laws and still romp to victory.
R.M.F wrote: "Marc wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "Marc wrote: "whose narrative of the Good EU? Have you not seen the Express/Mail & Telegraph. perhaps you only consume Scottish newspapers who I presume are all pro-eu likI'm not a member of the SNP and there's more to Scottish independence than the SNP. The Green party supports it as well. ..."
you don't vote Green...
T4bsF (Call me Flo) wrote: "Brexiteer is a term I like - but Brexitard is really insulting! No matter whether you voted leave or remain - name calling of a derogatory nature in our group, really isn't acceptable David."Hear, hear. And it's boorish behavior everywhere.
T4bsF (Call me Flo) wrote: "Brexiteer is a term I like - but Brexitard is really insulting! No matter whether you voted leave or remain - name calling of a derogatory nature in our group, really isn't acceptable David."The counter epithet 'Remoaner' is nothing like as derogatory. It conjures up echoes against being a 'Moaning Minnie', no one could be offended by such a mild admonition. One also associates the image of a child with a thumb pressed to the tip of their nose and the other four fingers extended to the vertical and then wiggling as the child rejoinders "Yah boo sucks!" Note, not 'suck it up' as the Americans might express it. Nor 'grow a pair'.
But this is illustrative of how the original poster has chosen the wrong line of attack on the disparaging term "Brexitard". For the suffix '-tard' is an American import. Though we too possess the word 'retard', to split it up and repurpose the suffix is a purely American invention. We here in the UK should eschew any 'Americani(z)sation' of the Lingua Franca we have bestowed upon the world. We really need to establish an English version of the French 'L'Academie Francaise' (which one might acknowledge as France's only worthwhile contribution to civilisation, save that it is dedicated to preserving all things French).
English words for English derogation! No Norman French derivations. No Latin, no Ancient Greek (take heed medical professions). No Northern vernacular words conferred under the yoke of Danelaw. Words imported from former British colonies will be considered on a case by case basis, with the exception of Jamaican slang which will not be admitted under any circumstance.
Flo wrote: ... Brexitard is really insulting!Since it's formed by analogy with Communard, it is perhaps a trifle ironic, but insulting? I think you're being over-sensitive.
David wrote: "Flo wrote: ... Brexitard is really insulting!Since it's formed by analogy with Communard, it is perhaps a trifle ironic, but insulting? I think you're being over-sensitive."
never fall into the delusion that others care what you think.
Actually I'm quite proud to say that I'm liberal, "willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas."
You can tell by the spelling it's not an American concept, and looking round, shared by very few to be honest
This is from Merriam-Webster. I'm proud to say I'm a liberal, too. I lack all moral restraint...Definition of liberal
1
a : of, relating to, or based on the liberal arts
b archaic : of or befitting a man of free birth
2
a : marked by generosity : openhanded
b : given or provided in a generous and openhanded way
c : ample, full
3
obsolete : lacking moral restraint : licentious
4
: not literal or strict : loose
5
: broad-minded; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
6
a : of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism
b capitalized : of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalism; especially : of or constituting a political party in the United Kingdom associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives
liberallyplay \ˈli-b(ə-)rə-lē\ adverb
liberalness noun
Idologically, Liberal changed from Free Trade economic liberal, a libertarianism that allows for any behaviour, a freedom TO act; into one of 'liberal' values needing to be defended by law, that is freedom FROM oppression, racism, etc
Liberalism has probably been in retreat as an intellectual ideology ever since. Because it is defensive, not proactive. This change happened around the first decade of the nineteenth century and was stamped in finality by the First World War.
Marc wrote: "T4bsF (Call me Flo) wrote: "Brexiteer is a term I like - but Brexitard is really insulting! No matter whether you voted leave or remain - name calling of a derogatory nature in our group, really is..."In that case, would you please start posting in Welsh?
Blasted Sais..... ;-)
One only has to spend ten minutes on Facebook to discover that all those who voted Remain are sore losers who should suck it up and respect the result.That those who voted leave are either racist, too stupid/ ill educated or old to be allowed to vote, or indeed all three.
And that many, many people are only tolerant of views that reflect their own.
is that to me or Flo? I'm not Welsh so would find it a mite tough. Could try Yiddish though
Will wrote: "One only has to spend ten minutes on Facebook to discover that all those who voted Remain are sore losers who should suck it up and respect the result.That those who voted leave are either racist..."
well that's algorithms and capitalism's need to push more commodities for you and now even ideas are tradable commodities it seems
Marc wrote: "is that to me or Flo? I'm not Welsh so would find it a mite tough. Could try Yiddish though"To you really, Marc. All that talk about the 'johnny come lately' English...
Bide, good sir, for I did but follow and expand upon thy theme.(Sorry, I've been deciding which piece of Shakespeare to rip off for a new novel)
Is our group so parochial that the horror show being played out across the pond isn't going to be mentioned?
just an enlarged version of what's going on here
Rather an understatement there Marc.
The village in Wales that my father grew up in is just North of the Landsker, so most, but not all, spoke Welsh. The Welsh were late adopting surnames, and don't seem to have understood their purpose, so the plethora of Jones's et al were disambiguated with epithets. Which if suitably unique, were inherited. Thus, in my father's time, Dai Cachu Ci was the grandson of the poor man who had slipped on a dog turd at a funeral.The landlady of the pub was an English speaker. A man came in asking after a particularly obnoxious local character, Dan Caled-Ar. So she shouted out, "Is Mr. Caledar in?"
BTW, the suffix in Brexitard is -ard, not -tard. A propensity to address imagined (or real!) personal slights rather than substantive points is characteristic of spousal arguments.
Patti (baconater) wrote: "Is our group so parochial that the horror show being played out across the pond isn't going to be mentioned?"Are you bored and trying to incite another round of insults and name-calling?
Patti (baconater) wrote: "Rather an understatement there Marc."I'm British, we do litotes rather well
David wrote: "The village in Wales that my father grew up in is just North of the Landsker, so most, but not all, spoke Welsh. The Welsh were late adopting surnames, and don't seem to have understood their purpo...BTW, the suffix in Brexitard is -ard, not -tard. A propensity to address imagined (or real!) personal slights rather than substantive points is characteristic of spousal arguments. "
it was -tard for satirical purposes.
I am a Remainer (not a Remoaner).
The clue was supposed to be in the final paragraph beginner 'English words for English derogation!'...
Fortunately the stink emanating from the Trouser Trump hasn't yet crossed the Atlantic. I can think of three ways he won't bring about the end of civilisation as we know it.1. He gets totally mired in sleaze, and has no time to end the world
2. In an effort to leave a legacy he devotes himself entirely to building things, and has no time to end the world
3. He gets bored, and can't be bothered to end the world.
I'm hoping for 2.
the problem with 1. (which btw I think will be his approach to the Presidency, to rinse it for all its worth,) is the people he has appointed to run the country on his behalf. Many are ideologues with nasty agendas.
Thing is, do we fear the last trump, or hope it's the last Trump?
Elizabeth wrote: "Thing is, do we fear the last trump, or hope it's the last Trump?""one no trump"
Patti (baconater) wrote: "Is our group so parochial that the horror show being played out across the pond isn't going to be mentioned?"The problem is I'm old enough to have seen American presidents who were not nice people, and also American presidents who were monstered by the Democrats.
I suspect that when Trump realises what limited powers the President actually has, and that leaders of other countries don't simply do what he wants, he'll quickly lose interest. In the meantime, I suppose we have to trust the American institutions of government to keep him under control. It really is a sad state of affairs that sees nearly half of American electors so disenchanted with their politicians that they preferred to vote for this man.
he has great powers if the Republican Congress go with him and if he plays the employment, migrants & religious right cards (anti-abortion) they will I reckon. Expect more radical alterations to the Constitution than have happened within living memory, starting with the First Amendment as he goes after his critics in the media (& Hollywood) and clamps down of the freedom oef expression.
B J wrote: "I suspect that when Trump realises what limited powers the President actually has, and that leaders of other countries don't simply do what he wants, he'll quickly lose interest. In the meantime, I..."Greater still are the numbers who didn't bother to vote for either candidate, and who can blame them? Not I.
Here in the UK, I was reading that we as a nation have 'lost' 9 million voters since the 1992 GE.
I don't blame them either.
Marc wrote: "Will wrote: "One only has to spend ten minutes on Facebook to discover that all those who voted Remain are sore losers who should suck it up and respect the result.That those who voted leave are ..."
What a load of student politics mixed in with pseudo Marxist Trotskyist, neo liberal, globalization, Derby County supporting claptrap!
:)
PS. I spelt globalization with a Z, so stick that up your campaign to preserve the purity of the British English over American English :P
For those who don't know, Marc is always taking the mickey out of me on the sports thread. This is payback :)
Patti (baconater) wrote: "Monstered?"A term used about the press here. Normally when somebody is accused of something or arrested for something and the press move in, crawl all over their past, and trash them. There have been cases where it's been pointed out that it may not be possible to get a jury who haven't already had their minds made up for them.
Then the person, somewhat embarrassingly, proves to be innocent
One example of this process is this nurse http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknew...
What the article doesn't give you is the sort of things that were said before the trial
Here's one http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lates... 'Hero nurse nabs Angel of Death.'
The thing about monstering is that the person who is monstered need not necessarily be a pleasant person, indeed in some cases they were probably unpleasant people, but they weren't actually guilty
Thanks Jim. I was unfamiliar with the term.
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I'm no May fan - quite the reverse - but fail to understand why she is receiving flak over this.