“The Antidote” Discuss Everything *Spoilers*

[SFFBC, Ancillary Mod]

A few questions to get us started:


1. What did you think of the world?
2. What did you think of the characters?
3. What worked or didn't for you?
4. Overall thoughts?

[Banshee]

Before I gather my thoughts about the novel, a note about the setting.

I didn't expect for a piece of Polish history to be embedded in an American novel. I haven't previously considered the parallel between the darkest period in the Polish history (1795-1918) and the tragic history of the Native American nations.

Since most people here are likely American, not many would need the recap of the events that followed after the settlers started arriving to the Americas, and there is additional historical information in the afterword. But probably there are not many people that know the Polish history that is the background for some of the main characters of the novel and which are recalled in flashes and pieces in the chapter with Tomasz's deposit. So let me give you a brief history lesson, from a Pole and an emigrant.

Poland used to be one of the strongest countries in Europe, but then the 17th century brought several wars to us. Even if all of the wars were won, Poland was weakened at the end of the century and failed to rebuilt its potential enough to withstand the agreement between Russia, Prussia and Austria to attack simultaneously and divide the country in 3 partitions, which ended up happening in 3 stages: in 1772, 1793 and 1795. Poland disappeared from the maps for 123 years, which were the most difficult times in the entire history, worse even than the Soviet occupation of 1939-1989. In the worst regions it was forbidden to speak Polish as part of the efforts to eradicate the Polish culture. This resulted in mass exodus of Poles and the creation of Polish diaspora all over the world. Tomasz Oletsky (Olecki?) was a single drop in the wave of Polish people escaping persecution. Today there are 20 million Poles living outside of the country. Greetings from Denmark, btw.

A note on the audiobook. I'm really angry at the narrator who clearly didn't even bother to do the minimum, and type and play Polish names in Google Translate. There are many Polish names mentioned in the book, and he managed to butcher them all. Yikes.

[Nicol]

Banshee wrote: "Before I gather my thoughts about the novel, a note about the setting.

I didn't expect for a piece of Polish history to be embedded in an American novel. I haven't previously considered the parall..."

Wow thank you for this! It makes it even more poignant.

[Nicol]

I read the physical book so all mispronunciations in my head were my own :) That is really disappointing, that should be the bare minimum and of utmost importance. I think both the narrator and the production should be held accountable for that. If you read the audio, I heard it does not describe the photos, the books has many real photos from the resettlement administration (unfortunately none by fictional character Allfrey). Did you look them up to see them? I think this link might work for any curious: https://www.loc.gov/collections/fsa-o...

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Nicol wrote: "I read the physical book so all mispronunciations in my head were my own :) That is really disappointing, that should be the bare minimum and of utmost importance. I think both the narrator and the..."

Thank you for the link.

I also read the book and I am glad the novel was recommended. It is very original, imho. It was some time before I could accept the idea of a human vault, but once I saw the book as being primarily symbolic magical realism, it was ok.

[Mai]

Banshee wrote: "Before I gather my thoughts about the novel, a note about the setting.

I didn't expect for a piece of Polish history to be embedded in an American novel. I haven't previously considered the parall..."

Thanks for sharing that history!

[Banshee]

I’m still trying to figure out the parallels between the novel and The Wizard of Oz. The town of Uz is obviously Oz, we have the theme of hurricane, The Antidote is The Wicked Witch, Asphodel who arrived from Kansas is Dorothy, and we have Scarecrow. The problem is that I only watched some adaptations when I was a child and I have never read the original books, so the vast majority of references probably went over my head.

[Netanella]

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "....I also read the book and I am glad the novel was recommended. It is very original, imho. It was some time before I could accept the idea of a human vault, but once I saw the book as being primarily symbolic magical realism, it was ok..."

I, too, am glad to have read the book, as I really like historical fiction, but I'm not sure I would have picked up this particular book had it not been selected as a winner.

I enjoyed the idea of the human vault, because it paralleled so closely what was going on in the US's banking systems at the time. As the Great Depression was cresting across the nation, Americans started panicking and running to the bank to withdraw all of their savings. Once the bank was tapped out of cash, the bank closed, since they didn't have enough money to operate. There was no FDIC at the time, not a lot of government regulation, no minimum deposits. So if the bank closed down and you didn't get there in time to withdraw your savings, you were shit out of luck. You lost all of your money.

Something like 2000 banks per year on averaged went out of operation. People lost everything.

So when the Antidote goes dry and people start coming to collect, it parallels what was going on in real vaults very nicely. I liked the connection.

[Shawnie]

Banshee wrote: "I’m still trying to figure out the parallels between the novel and The Wizard of Oz. The town of Uz is obviously Oz, we have the theme of hurricane, The Antidote is The Wicked Witch, Asphodel who a..."

I had no idea about this and didn't make the connection when I was reading. Very interesting.

[Anastasiya]

I don't know how I feel about it now that I'm done. I think I liked the beginning and middle more than the end, where most of the fantasy elements started emerging. I'm just not sure they worked for me. The prairie witches as a device made sense, but the glowing field seemed pointless and the perspectives of the Scarecrow and Cat were irrelevant - let me know if I missed something crucial here. This was my first novel by Russell, and while I think she's a good writer - there are some very poignant and beautiful sentences in this book - I also just don't vibe with her style.

[Kaia]

@Banshee, thank you for the Polish history! That part of the story was new for me, and it's nice to have additional context. Also, I didn't make the connect to the Wizard of Oz at all, though it does seem obvious now. I saw on the The Storygraph discussion that there were photographs in the physical book, which I'm sad to have missed.

The thing that I did like about the book was the parts that were based in actual history or reflected the time and place, and I thought the exploration of memory was also interesting.

@Anastasiya, I also felt like once the fantasy elements went beyond the vaults, they did not work as well for me. It seemed like they were only there to get across the points the author wanted to make, but they didn't really make sense in the world (even the vaults, to me, seemed out of place, though easier to accept).

I also thought Harp's speech at the end didn't fit at all with his character - in the same speech he talks about only having a grade school education but then he's talking about specific government treaties and history he probably wouldn't have known? I figured out about the Scarecrow almost immediately, though I couldn't figure out how the author was going to do the reveal.

Overall, this wasn't a book I enjoyed much, and it dragged for me. I felt like that author was trying to do too much, and it might have been better with fewer characters and storylines / points to make about that period in history.

[CJ]

Kaia wrote: "I felt like that author was trying to do too much, and it might have been better with fewer characters and storylines / points to make about that period in history."

I agree. This could have benefited from some trimming of one or two of the storylines.

I read this back at the end of July, after the poll winners were announced and have since largely forgotten much of the book. It makes me think that the 4 star rating I gave it initially was too generous. There was several interesting things about this, but apparently little that was terribly memorable.

[Kaa]

I thought the beginning of the book was interesting, and I liked the concept of Vaults, but I agree that it felt like the author was trying to do too much. I feel like I'm already forgetting things that happened in the first part of the book, everything was so disconnected.

[Anastasiya]

I agree that she did try to do way too much and accomplished very little. The disconnection is exactly right because none of the plotlines really came together. I think I gave it 4 stars but it's more of a 3.5. Maybe even a 3 - I might change this later.

I also just felt like it didn't feel or sound very true to the time period. This Slate review by Laura Miller put it best: "Her protagonists are Good, and therefore they can’t be allowed to think or say Bad things. They are above all else relatable—a YA article of faith—even if that makes them unconvincing products of the land and the historical moment that is her novel’s subject."

On a different note, do editors even do anything anymore? Or are they just paid yes-(wo)men?

[Rohit]

"This story teaches us a very simple lesson—no matter how much we try to hide our pain or mistakes, or try to blame them on someone else, the truth always comes out one day. The real cure is not in running away, but in facing the truth."

My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...