Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
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Debra,Can I borrow your 26-hour clock too? I've done better lately about getting back to my writing. I finished two whole chapters!
I'm still struggling with the marketing part; I'm just no good at it.
There's only so much 'marketing' a writer can do. - Most of it, in the long term that is, is really done by readers and their word of mouth!
I agree Magda. No one can predict if a book will became popular until it;s out there on a shelf somewhwere. I may think my book is good, but it's not nesesarly the opinion of the readers. Marketing can only do so much for the writer.
And also, there's so much luck involved. Think of poor Herman Melville and his Moby Dick!!
Oh the real marketing is definitely word of mouth from readers. A good story will get noticed and passed around.
In this day and age, an author should do just as much marketing as s/he can, as long as s/he does not sacrifice the writing.
Bridget: I'd love to lend my 26 hour clock to you, but as you can see from my inability to get online to post on Goodreads or to do very much else this week, it seems to have gotten stuck at about 11 hours.
Susan wrote: "You know, it's really sad to have to use the phrase, "rival authors." There are an awful lot of readers out there, and more being formed each day. Why are we fighting over them so nastily?"
Agree entirely! And I've made some fabulous friends from some of these 'rival authors! Other writers (and readers)read our books too. I don't think you can be a writer without reading. Maybe I've been lucky, but so far I've only crossed words with a couple of other writers, and the subject matter wasn't worth worrying about. We have one life, make it good for you and the next person, there's no need to be petty. (Crikey I send like an aging hippy!)
I have met really lovely people on Goodreads. A strong percentage of them are authors and I get along with them just fine. You have discussed the business side. It's true that we need to promote our books. That is when it gets sticky for me. I do it as gently as I can yet really want that "hello" with the readers. I have been criticized for"spamming" which I thought was really harsh. I have asked some readers I know on twitter and they say they don't want to be "solicited" on Goodreads. They felt that any mention of author's books was intrusive... That leaves me mystified as how to proceed.
I understand there's been an authorly catfight here but can't spot it. - Would love to read it!!!
Agree. Goodreads is welcoming some level of self promotion because they can start to make money from it, but they and thread managers want to maintain the fine line so that readers continue to be the primary customer. I can see where readers would be turned off by writers promoting their books. And yet, we're going to be accused of spamming in some instances. It's kind of a no win situation.
Mod
Promote away. (I only ask that you post in the right genre folders.)
-Vince
I've been reading through the thread (hi, newbie here!) and there's some really interesting points of view here.re: marketing. I find the best way to do it is give of yourself first, then hope karma comes back to you. Ex: I follow over 100 book blogs that I visit weekly. I read their reviews and other posts, then try to leave short by insightful comments about what they posted. I rarely mention I'm an author unless the post is specifically about a writer's life.
This way, I'm not spamming anyone's blog, yet building positive relationships with those bloggers. Several of them have followed me on twitter and we've already begun chatting about possible guest posts/interviews/reviews on their blogs.
I guess the most important thing I've learned about marketing is to not make it all about you. People tune out during commercials, after all, unless they already have a personal tie to the product. If you let your audience know you first, and give something to them first, they become more receptive to you and your product.
Also, don't rush it! I've been working my marketing plan since June and have seen a steady response which increases every month. If you bombard people with a too heavy-handed campaign, they're more likely to shut down and stop listening, like when a telemarketer calls your house during dinner.
And that's just my two cents!
(OH! If anyone's planning on going to the RT conference in Chicago this year, I'll be doing a presentation on Building a Better Blog Tour, if you wanted to come check it out.)
Smiles!
Lori
hehe, yeah, maybe not "karma," but more like seeing things go full circle, as they tend to do in the industry.How I manage...well, sleep's been off the table for a while now. ;) Seriously, I just keep myself on a very tight schedule with Wed and Sun reserved for blog-o-thons. It's do-able, so long as I keep the TV off, don't visit tumblr (b/c omg that thing is a time suck!), and manage to involve my cat in an activity outside of lounging on my keyboard.
Smiles!
Lori
re: marketing. I find the best way to do it is give of yourself first, then hope..."
Lori - great post, great advice. I agree. The key is interaction and meaningful offerings. Can you tell me more about this RT conference? What is it? I want to go - I'm from Chicagoland.
Thanks!
Glad it was helpful, Suki!RT (or Romantic Times) is hands-down the best conference I've ever been to. It's April 11-15 at the The Hyatt Regency O'Hare Hotel in Chicago. Don't let "romance" scare you off though, if that's not what you write. There are TONS of genres represented, and a fantastic YA track of programming hosted by Melissa Marr. Dozens of agents, editors, and publishers (even the biggies) come, too, and I walked out of my first RT with a two-book deal, so the networking opportunities are incredible.
Plus, you really need to bring an extra suitcase for all the free books they throw at you because WOW. I must've come home that first year with three dozen free books.
PLUS, there's an ebook/indie book fair on Thursday afternoon, then a MASSIVE bookfair on Saturday that's open to the public, so lots of chances to meet your readers and make some new ones.
Here's the link for the conference site. The programming list is fairly up to date, and you can also check out all the authors scheduled to attend (like Charlaine Harris, Stephanie Perkins (who is the most adorable person ever!), Carrie Ryan, and J.R Ward: http://www.rtconvention.com/
I hope you can make it! It's a bit pricey, but one of the best moves for my career I've ever made.
Smiles!
Lori
Hi I'm Martin Renaud. I want to let everyone know about my new book series. I have just released the four books of Socialite 1 at the Amazon kindle and Apple's iTunes site, though Good Reads readers can download the first book, from within Good Reads, for free (search Bees to Benny or my name to find it.)
The Socialite series begins as an offbeat love story set in the small town of Mission, British Columbia, then develops into a global battle between members of an alien species.
Each book contains elements of mystery, humour, drama and music (2 songs for each book.) I plan on releasing some of the music on my fan site (Facebook.com/socialitebooks) soon.
thanks for reading!
I need your feedback. My blog, Everyday Heroes, presents real heroes who perform courageously. They are everyday people (a black bear in one instance) who don't leap tall buildings in a single bound. I write about such people because they inspire the rest of us. The protagonists in my novels are also such people. Would you be kind enough to go to my blog and give me your opinions?
Thank you.
Http://www.josephbadal.wordpress.com
Great blog!Personally I like both- real life heroes and fantasy heroes. Our culture can use sense of the heroic in whatever form.
Thank you, Masha. I appreciate the feedback. Please let your friends know about my blog. I post a new blog every month so hope you will subscribe.Joe
Hello,My name is Marla Blowers.
I published my first book in August in paperback. By October it was available in ebook. Young And Naive, Learning To Fall.
http://amzn.to/uwTpTX
http://amzn.to/ts0zB7
My second book is currently at the editor and I should get it back before the end of the year. This time around I am publishing the ebook first and hope to have that out by the second week in Jan. Paperback by spring.
I have at least one more to get ready for the editor as well. I wrote these books back in the 90's. The first one was at the editor when the company went bankrupt. I put everything in the closet and just last March pulled them out and decided I really needed to do something with them.
This sale will continue through the end of the year.
Young And Naive
Holiday Sale, use discount code 6FQN5QRD and get $4.75 off
https://www.createspace.com/3608228/
I hope this is an appropriate place to post this update: due to whatever mysterious Amazon algorithm, the paperback edition of my science fiction novel Twin-Bred is on sale for $9.35, down from $12.99 -- at the moment, at least. . . .
Carrie wrote: "Nanette wrote: "Hello. I don't know where to post this. I will start by saying that we all get bad reviews. I expect that. But I would like to know what to do when someone posts a review on Amazon ..."I once had my brother's ex-girlfriend go on Amazon and post a horrible review of my memoir. She signed as if she was a male and used a different town. It took me awhile -- couldn't figure out why the review was so different from others -- but then I caught something in the review and figured it out. Sent an email to her to see if she had written it. She fessed up, so I contacted Amazon and they took it down. Crazy nutters indeed.
Good Day! I'm MK McClintock, a new author and look forward to meeting other authors and readers. I've just published my first book, Gallagher's Pride and I am fairly new to Goodreads, so this is doubly fun for me! http://www.mkmcclintock.com
http://mkmcclintock.blogspot.com/
And as a late addition to the topic by Susan and Kgcummings about rival authors - couldn't agree more. I don't know what I'd do if new authors weren't constantly filling the shelves with great books for me to enjoy!
Please check out my friend Patsy Rivera's facebook fanpage, She is an author and she is doing wonderful and amazing things!!! She is in the process of writing a Children's book/she also writes adult books. and she has vowed to donate books to the St. Jude Hospital for sick children every time she reaches 500 fans on her facebook page. Here is the link: http://www.facebook.com/authorpatsyri...
Hello! I am Lauren Gilbert, author of HEYERWOOD: A Novel. My book is a historical novel (with romantic overtones!) set in late Georgian/Regency England. This seems like a great forum for authors to introduce themselves to each other!http://www.heyerwood.com
Lauren wrote: "Hello! I am Lauren Gilbert, author of HEYERWOOD: A Novel. My book is a historical novel (with romantic overtones!) set in late Georgian/Regency England. This seems like a great forum for authors..."Lauren - Heyerwood looks wonderful! Just the type of book I enjoy most.
Thanks, M.K.! I'm so proud of my cover-I think it fits my book so well.
Okay where exactly ARE these categories?
Hi everyone,I'm really excited to be a part of this group. Thank you Vincent! It's great to have a place where you can connect with readers and other writers. That is my favorite thing about Goodreads :)
I'm a fantasy writer, chips and salsa-aholic, and I'm not ashamed to admit my Mini-Schnauzer has me well-trained :)
My first book, The God King, was released in November 2011. If anyone out there likes apocalyptic epic fantasy, please feel free to check it out!
You can use this Smashwords coupon to get it for free:
NY35B
It's really nice to meet everyone, and I look forward to making a lot of new friends.
Best wishes,
James
PS-
Vincent, I introduced myself and my book here and I also posted my book in the fantasy folder. I hope that is okay! I can remove it here if you need me to. I don't want to put stuff in the wrong place :)
Hi James!Wow, we can get the book for free? Thanks!
Zee wrote: "Hi James!Wow, we can get the book for free? Thanks!"
Hi Zee,
You sure can! I'm happy to share with all my Goodreads friends :)
Best wishes,
James
Magda wrote: "Boyd wrote: "I am wondering which the was most difficult, writing my book or promoting it. Boyd Lemon-author of "Digging Deep: A Writer Uncovers His Marriages," a memoir about the author's journ..."
Personally I find writing to be by far the easiest part. I love writing, but I have to avoid the temptation to spend all my time creating, and instead focus on promoting what's already written. I don't feel like I'm making any progress with that yet!
Joseph wrote: "The problem for most authors is trying to divide their time between their passion (writing) and the business side of being an author (marketing, selling, social networking, etc.). But I have come t..."I agree Joseph that it takes budgeted time for both -- doesn't make me happy but certainly a necessity. I guess there's no perfect world???
Hi all,I'm the author of In Dire Straits: Keeping Spirit Alive When the Wheels Come Off. I would love to get a review from someone on Goodreads.
book info:
http://www.prlog.org/11360368-savant-...
I think the best way to introduce myself is to ask readers to look at my most popular blog post and hope they will further explore the fiction works I have available. Reflections from an Aging Writer:http://www.randyattwood.blogspot.com/...
Hi Jaq,Boy, I don't think I could credibly review something in this genre, since I would be hard pressed to come up with a fantasy novel I've read since childhood.
Would the Hobbit now be considered fantasy fiction? I'm glad you posted, however, because I think your note helps illustrate the point that reviews are best made and most credible when people come to a subject and book out strong interest and background.
I would likewise feel a little uncomfortable with a review of In Dire Straits if someone didn't have a strong interest in the genre or the subjects, which in this case relate to healing, the environment, the post-911 world, and the other subjects mentioned in my press release.
Maybe writers in this group have some suggestions about reaching others on Goodreads who share a particular reading or writing interest.
Cheers
One other note: I do have a strong interest in imaginative illustration and am always interested in hearing about books that an author both illustrated and wrote (which was the case with In Dire Straits).Can anywone think of examples of this that I could add to my list? Henry Miller was allowed by his publishers to include his drawings in several of his last few books.
We do know that there are books on Blake as well as Leonardo (if not by them) that contain their illustrations as well as text. One of the things I am rather proud of is that my own publisher accepted my cover, which included original artwork. In my case, a contributing factor was that I was trying to illustrate the powers of imagination in all kinds of important problem-solving.
I have noticed that "illustrated novels" are a developing niche, but that they aren't what I first expected--pretty much cartoon books with a more elaborate storyline. When I first heard the term I was hoping that people like Gunter Grass, Umberto Ecco, Pat Conroy, et. al, were now including revealing illustrations. Sad disappointment.
Thanks for the reply. How could I have overlooked Alice in Wonderland? From Wikipedia: The manuscript was illustrated by Dodgson himself who added 37 illustrations—printed in a facsimile edition in 1887.[15] John Tenniel provided 42 wood engraved illustrations for the published version of the book. The first print run was destroyed at his request because he was dissatisfied with the quality. The book was reprinted and published in 1866.[15]
John Tenniel's illustrations of Alice do not portray the real Alice Liddell, who had dark hair and a short fringe.
Alice has provided a challenge for other illustrators, including those of 1907 by Charles Pears and the full series of colour plates and line-drawings by Harry Rountree published in the (inter-War) Children's Press (Glasgow) edition.
HI,I'm fairly new here. So new I can't remember if I posted her a few months ago or not.There are so many other sites an author tries to keep up with;sorry if I seem to be having a senior moment. I'm the author of "Next Time Lucky: Lessons of a Matchmaker". A real story experienced and written by me a former matchmaker in Ireland. Not a real romance novel but definitely very sexy...as sexy as you get it on internet dating sites. You find me under my name and under the title of my book on Facebook too.If you're interested there are always book give always...on FB and other sites. In fact, I'm going to do one here soon..as soon as I figure out how to do it.Because I truly want to share my witty, saucy story.Siggy Buckley
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fall-Grace-Ho...David Menon
Hi!
I recently published the first in my detective series featuring my fictional Manchester DCI, Sara Hoyland, and it's called 'Fall from Grace'.
In it, Sara has to investigate the alleged crimes of a Nazi war criminal who's been recognised today by a survivor of a Nazi atrocity in Poland at the start of World War Two. The man concerned is of course very old now and he's given sanctuary by an aristocratic Nazi sympathiser of the same age. Sara uncovers piece by piece a line of crimes dating back to 1940 and is undeterred by the age of those she's investigating.
Also part of the story is a social worker in modern day Salford who's trying to make a difference with a tough love approach to his clients. But what links him to the octegenarian Nazi sympathiser? And what's happened to his soldier lover Jake out in Afghanistan and who he hasn't heard from in weeks? And what is the secret that his beloved but dying father needs to tell him and why has he waited until now?
As the two strands of the story come together in a controversial conclusion, Sara has to confront demons from her own past and the father of the child she gave away for adoption without telling him she was even pregnant.
I got the idea for the book after watching a documentary on TV about how much of the British aristocracy during WW2 actually sympathised with the Nazi's.I wondered what would've happened if the appeasers had got their way and how closely would they guard a secret that could've meant the difference between war and peace for the allies. I also wanted to show how this could've come down the years and affected those living today.
I also wanted to create a police detective character who despite having a bit of a past, is not some emotionally damaged alcoholic who never sees their family. Sara is close to her parents and brothers and has a healthy interest in wine, men, and sex.
Above all, I wanted to write an entertaining story that will keep the reader guessing until the end and make them keep turning over the pages. by the reviews I've had I think I've succeeded but you must judge for yourself. The link to purchase the book on the amazon kindle store is above. It's also available on ipad, bn.com,smashwords, kobi, and as a paperback from next month.
The second in the series, 'Beautiful Child' is also now available as an ebook and I'm busy writing the third which will be called 'Outside the Rain'.
I hope I manage to entertain you and if you do read my work, please would you post a review here on goodreads and on amazon? Thank you.
This might be totally off topic, but could someone explain to me what Listopia is? I keep seeing it but can't make sense of it. Sorry to be so dumb.
I want to make this absolutely clear to new authors.There are cheap hucksters passing themselves off as "legitimate writers" when in fact they are not writers at all but clever marketers using cheap tactics to sell a million copies of a poorly written book while shredding the ebook field for the rest of us, who are "legitimate" authors.
I do not consider John Locke or Sevastian Winters writers- they are "cheap hucksters. It's not about perfecting the craft with these sleazy snake-oil salesmen, it's about the "Get Over," the marketing, lining their pockets while ruining the market value for the rest of indie authors who are "legitimate authors and who work at perfecting their craft. Sevastian Winter's has the pomposity to dare write a book for new authors when he is a new career author himself with no following or established reputation and not even an author at that- a cheap huckster, a marketer. Shouldn't he be writing a book on how to sell snake oil or something?
If you are a new career author and are selling your book for .99-cents- you are deceived or a fool. Every new career author should not follow the example of Locke who only cares about himself - not the rest of the indie author community. You should sell your ebook, starting at $2.99-$9.99. Nothing less. Unless you are doing a "limited time" promotion. You should never give your book away for free unless you are doing as "limited time promotion."
New authors are like recent college grads. You can;t tell them anything they think they know it all, Locke and Winter's are hucksters, not mentors, not writers. Winters has to give away 10,000 copies of his book for aspiring writers because no one will buy it.
If you want a truly good book on writing I suggest Stephen King's book, "On Writing." King who is a masterful storyteller. But do not be fooled by these online con artists who pass themselves off as legitimate writers. Their only intent is to sell as many books as they can, line their pockets and shred the ebook field for everyone else in doing so.
This is the last comment I make on this subject. I am a journalist/writer/editor with over 30-years experience and I support new career authors- not cheap hucksters like Locke or Winter's. If you are a new ebook author and want a free plug on my many web sites- contact me. I'm only too happy to do it.
But, the line in the sand has been drawn. If you are a cheap huckster or marketer passing yourself off as a legitimate author and luring new authors with your line of bullshit- be warned. You're just a cheap, pretentious ass who belongs in the .99-cent pool. You've soiled the ebook field with your .99-cent stench and indie authors deserve a better reputation and a fair market price for their wares than this.
Very emotional comment but very true too. But to tell the truth, I wouldn't mind selling as many books as Locke and still find the time to improve as a writer. I'm still hoping it's possible but I fear I'd have to get rid of my family, my dog, my house and garden and -- most of all-- my health to do that. So I'm sticking to what I can do in the little time I have and aim for better books with every project. I hope that'll be enough to draw readers.
Kilburn wrote: "I want to make this absolutely clear to new authors.There are cheap hucksters passing themselves off as "legitimate writers" when in fact they are not writers at all but clever marketers using che..."
I appreciate your position and impassioned argument, Kilburn. I even agree with you for the most part. I just want to add a few of my own observations as a newbie indie.
First, in early 2011 I started using the Kindle reading ap on my laptop and downloaded some 99 cent eBooks. I liked a few of them, but not many. It was after reading a particularly poorly written 99 cent zombie book that I remember getting mad and saying to myself, "I just paid a buck for that?! I can write a MUCH better book!" So I did. What I'm saying is that reading a few cruddy 99 cent'ers was really what convinced me to take the plunge and start writing fiction myself.
While writing my first book I also bought Locke's book on how to sell a million ebooks. I read some of it and got some ideas, but I didn't agree with much of his philosophy. He does come off as more of a marketer than an author and I don't agree with his 99 cent approach -- especially since he was selling his "how to" book for $3.99 at the time. LOL.
Nevertheless, my first release was 99 cents, but it was a 30,000 word cliffhanging teaser for my first full book. I wanted the teaser out before Christmas and used it to test the waters, so to speak. I also enrolled it in KDP Select and gave away a thousand copies over Christmas. As a brand new author I had nothing to lose and everything to gain from the exposure. After all, the teaser was just intended to entice people into buying the full book. It worked.
I released the 100,000 word book in January for $2.99 and it has done well (for an unknown indie release) with over twenty 5 star reviews from four continents and steady daily sales.
On April 1st I released the sequel. Most of it had been written before I released the first book. It had actually been part of the first book until I decided to split it. That was partly a marketing decision, but also a gut feeling that I would do better selling two 100,000 word books for $2.99 each than one 200,000 word book for $5.99 -- especially since another 100,000 word sequel is in the works. Steven King might be able to sell 900 page books by the truck load, but who am I? Right?
The sequel is also doing well and selling better than the first one at the moment -- which only proves that people who read the first book want to buy the second book too. Getting good reviews also helps, but that's not why I wrote this post.
The really interesting thing is that my $2.99 books are selling MUCH better than the 99 cent teaser. I'm selling 30 to 50 copies of the $2.99 books a day now, but only 4 copies of the 99 cent teaser so far this month. So I think readers know that they get what they pay for. Of course it might help that I warn them to save a buck and buy the full version in the product description of the teaser too. :)
On the other hand, I wouldn't want people to think that all 99 cent books are trash. I've read some really good ones, especially short stories and novellas. There is a place for them in the legit market. The same is true for free/give-away promotions.
As mentioned above, I used the free promo days of the teaser to promote the release of the full first book. Then, in Mid-March, I gave away a couple thousand copies of the first book to promote the release of the sequel. I have not enrolled the second novel in any giveaways and don't plan to, but the use of free promotions to introduce readers to a series makes sense. Not just from a marketing standpoint, but as validation of an author too. I do value my work, but the best confirmation of that is seeing so many people buying the sequel, even if they got the first book for free.
David P. Forsyth
Kilburn wrote: "I want to make this absolutely clear to new authors.There are cheap hucksters passing themselves off as "legitimate writers"
If nothing else, I bet that felt good when you hit the 'post' button. Well said.
David,I completely agree with you. There is definitely something to be said for a writer who can also do a little marketing on their own. The market definitely can easily become overrun with nonsense, as Kilburn explained, so it does take a little marketing ingenuity to get noticed.
Kindle gives self-published authors the chance and the tools to do just that. The readers will ultimately decide if it the books are worth the price or not. Some people, though, just have a story to tell and they want it out there in their own words. They might not want to make money on it and they might not care if a lot of people purchase it or not, and they might not care about being "legitimized" or anything either.
Interesting discussion, I must say.
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Thanks for letting me do this Goodreads; here’s my pitch:
“If Dad finds out about this, he’ll go crazy. If he goes crazy, he’ll end up in the nuthouse and we’ll a..."
Is this autobiographical? - Whether it is or not, it's interesting to study whether someone's lack of awareness they are a victim makes them act less like one and therefore enables them to recover better.