"The Incandescent" Discuss Everything *Spoilers*

[SFFBC, Ancillary Mod]

A few questions to get us started:


1. What did you think of the world?
2. What did you think of the characters?
3. What worked or didn't for you?
4. Overall thoughts

[Melanie, the neutral party]

Bonus Questions:
Now that you've read it, critique the book's recipe.
How would you modify the recipe?

[Netanella]

Possession, a cocktail

If I could modify the recipe, I would add some bitter orange, for the illicit fling and the poor character judgment.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

I really liked this! I have a special edition of the book and it has a letter from Tesh in the beginning in which she talks about how she wrote this with children in mind and how strange it is when they first get to school - this institution in which they have no context for and no choice in attending and no choice in what they are learning and how much like a cage it must feel. Which I think we see reflected a little bit in Nikki, and maybe somewhat in the Phoenix although that’s probably being used more as a metaphor for Walden’s past mistakes.

I really liked the characters. Thought they were fleshed out. Competent but flawed. I very much enjoyed the awkward attraction between Laura and Saffy. I thought that was a fun dynamic you don’t see often.

I think the only critique I have is that I felt like it was pretty obvious who was causing all the chaos. I don’t think it was really supposed to be a surprise, but it was hard to watch Walden not put it together sooner.

(No critiques on the recipe but I think Netanella’s addition is good!)

[Olga]

For me it was 3.5 rounded to 4. Maybe because overall Dark Academia is not exactly my cup of tea, I didn't like The Scholomance series at all, so was afraid this would be more of the same. Glad I was wrong.

A story told from POV of 38-yo teacher with virtually no love life, how could I not relate. The last part felt a bit off though. I get why the 'you' perspective was used, but the whole thing felt like a brief retelling of events, it broke the flow for me.

Plus Mark's intentions were not clear to me in the end, apart from his role in unleashing the Phoenix. It felt like he was more of a tool for some ends (both for Walden and the author) rather than a full-blown character - scratch an itch, enchant an umbrella that unleashes a demon. What was his aim in weakening the wards? What was his end game? Why did he do that? It seems that the only answer the author gives - because he was a bastard. Or did I miss something?

[Netanella]

Nice call, Olga! The question of Mark's purpose in the story? Perhaps Mark was a tool, literally and figuratively. He certainly had no scruples, and he did serve as a romantic distraction for Sapphire. I remember that he was hired as a "consultant" to test the security measures and possibly to assist in setting up new measures. But what he really did was ensure that more security measures were needed - almost like a fireman who sets fires, perhaps?

The other ulterior motive I considered was that he was trying to get Sapphire to move over to a military/governmental contractor role, with her strong powers of invocation.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Oh yeah that’s a good point - I was also looking for a motive for our villain and am only just now realizing we never received one.

[Ellen]

What I understood is that Mark and whoever he was working with (the good guys) were trying to weaponize the technique Saffy used with the phoenix. It was never explained but I do know Saffy was 38 years old.

[Lori]

Overall, I enjoyed listening to this book (I rated it generously at 4 stars), however it's always hard for me to rate a book that seems to end on a more lackluster note than it maintained through most of the tale. The ending felt rushed and didn't fully satisfy as a conclusion. I think there were broader implications to keeping the phoenix around that were just glossed over or ignored in the wrap-up. I agree with Olga that Mark was the most one-dimensional "speaking part" character and I agree with Sarah that we could have had a reasonable expectation that Saffy would put the clues together a good bit sooner - she's smart and experienced, and this is an inexplicable "blind spot" on her part (since we as readers spot it).

[BJ]

I really enjoyed the book! I thought it was a lot of fun, and that there was a lot to think about. Unlike some of you, I really liked the shift in point of view at the end. I thought it worked, and although the change in tone was kind of abrupt, I think if the book had gone on as it had much longer it would have worn out its welcome.

There were a few things that didn't work for me, though. One was the romance. I get that they were supposed to be awkward, but I just felt like Saffy and Laura had no chemistry at all. I read a lot of sapphic romance, and there's definitely a way to do awkward that still has a pulse, and I just didn't see it here. Then, on top of that, I felt like Mark and Saffy had weirdly real chemistry, and it sort of threw me off.

The other thing that really, really bugged me was Laura's decision to try to fight the Phoenix alone in order to save Saffy, instead of calling for help. I mean, I understand why the entire plot of the novel absolutely depended on her making that decision. But within the story's own logic, it was incredibly arrogant, selfish, and stupid. She put 400 kids' lives in danger and bet everything on her being a match for Phoenix, which was absolutely not a safe bet.

[Becky]

I just finished this, and I liked it quite a bit overall, but I agree with most of the others who felt that the ending was weak. I’m usually vehemently opposed to reading 2nd person POV, but I thought it worked here, and felt appropriate, given the lesson on how referring to something as “you” can invite possession, and the question on demonic personhood. I thought it was clever to use 2nd that way. BUT, I still always have the same questions around that narrative style, which is namely, WHO is observing and relating this? (Also, you don’t know me, don’t tell me what I did or didn’t do! :P)

So I thought it worked in a way, particularly effective as a delineation between pre-possession and post, but some of the things related were specifically mentioned as being below the demon’s notice. But then, again, who is relating them?

I also feel that Mark’s involvement/motives were missing, and that it was not clear what his goal was. He clearly knew about the Phoenix (and announced it to the staff), but his actions seemed more shady and nefarious than trying to recruit her. Now that I think about it, it seems like he was calling the demons to the school to tempt the phoenix into coming forward, but to what end? I really don’t get that aspect of it. I was very surprised that it took Walden as long as it did to realize Mark’s role in the things going wrong at the school… but then nothing, until we see him come back after whatever the demon had done to him.. which was… what? And then what happened to him after? Were there any repercussions for him?

I also didn’t like how little accountability/repercussions there were for Walden after the possession situation. I know that Walden can’t be held responsible for what happened while she was possessed, but surely she should be held accountable for taking the demon into her body in the first place. She was able to control it for a long time, but every time she called on it, she fed it, even if she didn’t let it FEED like it wanted, and it gained power. She should have realized that, and should have known that it would outgrow her eventually.

Oh, and I just thought of this too - what happened with the ice demon that she “captured” in her left arm? I totally thought that was being set up for a big fire and ice kind of situation. But then nothing at all.

I did like the characterization of Nicki and Walden though, and I particularly liked the counseling session conversation that they had. It was honest and vulnerable and I thought it was perfect.

In the No Spoiler thread, there was mention of Walden not liking children - I never got that impression. Quite the opposite in fact. I thought she liked them well enough to respect them as people, and treat them fairly and directly. She criticized their work, but never THEM. Even the commentary about Will’s privilege and manner was observational - she never held that against him, just as she never held Matty’s situation or fear against him. She went to bat for them and defended them, and I liked that quite a lot.

I am not a romance reader as a rule, so I don’t know any of the tropes or whatever of that genre so if there were any, I didn’t pick up on them. I quite liked the awkwardness and off-kilter feeling of Saffy and Laura’s attraction to each other. To the point where I disliked Mark immediately simply on the notion of him coming in as a love triangle 3rd. But then I quickly started disliking him for something being simply off about him.

I didn’t like how Laura was out of the picture so much. Another thing that I just realized is that she happened to just show up exactly when needed all the time. It felt like a bit of a red herring - like we were supposed to believe that she was behind the demonic incursions. But I never did. There was no question about her ever in my mind. I was fine with them getting back together at the end, but it did feel a bit rushed. I said in my review that I wouldn’t be mad if we got a companion book from Laura’s POV.

I did like the worldbuilding and the magic system, and I would have liked a bit more characterization for more of the staff and students.

I rated it 3 stars, and will definitely read her other work.

[BJ]

Love your connection of the second person perspective to the idea of referring to something as you inviting possession from earlier in the book, I hadn't made that connection myself, and it really is clever, both on the author's part and on yours for catching it :)

Becky wrote: "BUT, I still always have the same questions around that narrative style, which is namely, WHO is observing and relating this? (Also, you don’t know me, don’t tell me what I did or didn’t do! :P)"

But isn't that equally true of all close-but-also-omniscient perspective, even when it's written in the third person?

I also don't like second person. It feels, like you say, presumptuous! You don't know me! But I'm trying to think of other novels that use the second person directed at a specific character before... it's very effective here.

[BJ]

Becky wrote: "I am not a romance reader as a rule, so I don’t know any of the tropes or whatever of that genre so if there were any, I didn’t pick up on them"

There aren't any that I could spot! This is a novel with a romantic subplot, but doesn't bear anything more than a passing resemblance, if that, to a wlw romance novel (and I've read quite a few!) Honestly I can't even *conceive of* a queer romance novel where the bi main character sleeps with a man at all, let alone that being the only sex in the novel! Romance readers would *not* like that, lol.

[BJ]

Becky wrote: "To the point where I disliked Mark immediately simply on the notion of him coming in as a love triangle 3rd. But then I quickly started disliking him for something being simply off about him.

I didn’t like how Laura was out of the picture so much."

All other problems (and pleasures) aside, the core problem with the book for me is the combination of these two things. Laura and Mark were both just not strong characters. Mark's motivations were extremely confusing. Mark seemed like he was going to be... at least a little more complicated than simply evil and opportunistic. Because he was totally flattened out by the end of his arc, Laura's relationship with him didn't *mean* anything. She didn't grow, she wasn't challenged. She just stupidly slept with the villain and learned nothing from it, not even "trust your gut," because her gut was obviously deeply conflicted. Which *could* have been interesting. And then Mark was, apparently, brutally punished... but there was no sense of justice in it, because we never *really* understand his crimes with any specificity. And he also doesn't grow or change. And so in the end that whole arc is just meaningless, other than giving Mark access to the magical engines or whatever.

And then Laura is also not fully characterized. Like you say, she shows up and saves the day, than disappears. Her and Saffy obviously could and should have quite a bit of tension to work through, but they just... don't. And so the whole love triangle just feels peripheral to what the novel is actually interested in...

[Becky]

BJ wrote: "Becky wrote: "BUT, I still always have the same questions around that narrative style, which is namely, WHO is observing and relating this? (Also, you don’t know me, don’t tell me what I did or didn’t do! :P)"

But isn't that equally true of all close-but-also-omniscient perspective, even when it's written in the third person?"

That’s a good point, actually. I don’t think I’ve ever thought about WHO is narrating a 3rd person POV. Funny enough though, I have thought about this when it comes to 1st person, because a book I read a while back made it so overly descriptive that I couldn’t wrap my head around it. Like, was she RELAYING all of this to the reader, or was it just character observation & knowledge? Neither really worked because there was far too much detail to be something that someone would actually tell someone else, but the reader wasn’t privy to all of the knowledge the narrator had either. I DNF’d that book. It was making me crazy. LOL

I guess when it comes to 2nd POV, it just feels personal because it’s directed AT the reader in a way. Though, I guess it could be seen as directed from A to B, like me talking to you with C (the reader) observing that interaction. But still, there needs to be an A if there’s a B, right? How can a “you” be addressed if there’s no addresser?

With 3rd person omniscient (or even limited) it feels like we are the direct observer, like a bird’s eye view. But that’s not really entirely right either. This is a really interesting question!

[Juliana]

I just finished the book and it was a diferent read, sometimes interesting, sometimes too descriptive.
I found the world quite good, the mix of magic and contemporany day, the references of historical facts but in a world with magic.
The POV of a 30 somenthing year old teacher was refreshing to an extent.
I really liked Saffy's interactions with Nikki too.

But the story laked somenthing for me, it had the events there to be dramatic with high stake situations and epic battles/moments, but at the same time, the way it was narrated quickly brought the events back to a "cozy feeling".

And I agree with the points talked in previous post about Mark and the ending being kind of rushed.

It was good to read it mostly because was outside of what I normally read but it doens't leave me wanting more of the story or the author.