How many reviews do indie books need to get random readers?

[Lily]

Then start the topic :P

[Courtney]

I might but it'll get real...

[Lily]

Courtney wrote: "I might but it'll get real..."

Bring it on!

[Tabitha]

In answer to Courtney's original question, as an indie, I know how difficult it is to get reviews, so blogger or giveaway reader reviews are sufficient for me (hell, even the trad. pub's do it!)

But, as Jacek said, when in doubt, read the free sample. Reviewers can make a book sound wonderful, but if they don't share your tastes, you can be in for a rude shock.

[David]

"You can't judge a book by its cover... but most people do."

[Andrew]

I get "passing trade" with just a handful of reviews. Not a great deal, obviously, but it happens.

And I can tell it happens because I sell books in the US, where I have maybe three actual friends. In the UK, more often than not I'll sell a few books and then discover later that it was all thanks to a mate who just bought themselves a new Kindle. US sales are always a great confidence boost for me, because they almost certainly represent a new reader who has just stumbled across my book and bought it on its own merits because they like the look of it. I find that very exciting!

So, yes, I think as long as you have just 2-4 reviews that aren't written by your Auntie Florrie, it's possible to sell Indie books to random readers.

[Yolanda]

The number of reviews doesn't worry me. I'm leary of 5 star reviews so I usually read the 3 star ones cos they give the good and bad. I'll also read the 2 stars. Not all of them, but enough to give me a perspective on the book.

[♥️♥️ Lanae]

I've read books despite the 5-10 people on my friends list giving them bad reviews and on occasion I end up liking the book. Also, when I read reviews on goodreads i use the filter and read the 1 star reviews. If you can distinguish between passionate readers and those just out to "troll" i think the 1-2 stars give the most insight. I ignore reviews that only "GIF" it to me straight with no detail on why they loved OR hated the novel

[Michael]

I believe any reader will make their own mind up on a book, as I do, regardless of reviews. The only thing I would be wary of is a book with a sloppy front cover and bad reviews ( non-troll) which mention poor grammar throughout the book, then I wouldn't buy. The sample chapter is a great feature :)

[Jane]

Lily wrote: "Btw, I never buy any book, no matter what, that has nothing but reviews that read as "Free copy in exchange for free review." That's not an objective review. That's a bribe"

Lily, newspapers and other media outlets will accept books, for free, pre-publication from traditionally published authors and post their reviews before the book is even published. The news outlets (you see them, NYTimes, etc.,) receive these books for free and don't have to indicate "I received this book for free in exchange for this review." These outlets will not read and review indie books.

I know. I've tried. I phoned our local Boston Globe asking them about reviewing my book: The book editor said directly that I can send the book but if she sees it's indie published it will go right in the slush pile. So how are indie writers to get reviews and compete?

We can go through bloggers, giveaways, and so on. But Amazon and Goodreads require this mantra and it looks awful. It's like a Scarlet Letter. So on the one hand they're giving us an opportunity for a public review but on the other hand it leaves a very bad taste, especially when reviewers begin their review with this.

But we're not doing anything that all the big publishing houses are doing. We're sending our books out to readers who are giving it an honest review.
bloggers who review books have it as policy to not even post the review, in respect to the author, if they feel the book deserves fewer than 3 stars. So if you're seeing good reviews, 4 and 5 stars, you can be assured that the blogger/review enjoyed the book, and is giving us indie writers a fighting chance to get our writing to the public.

[Courtney]

Adrian wrote: "Courtney wrote: "Any book with less than 10 seems like it was only rated by friends of the author or blogs they solicited for reviews. It doesn't make a book bad, of course, but it doesn't give muc..."

That's something I've mentioned to authors in different groups - not to confuse readers with reviewers. It seems too many authors get touchy/whiny about what reviews are left or whether any are left at all.

Readers bought a book - that's the end of their relationship with an author. They paid for their entertainment. Money is all a reader owes an author, not feedback to improve or validate a writer's career.

Why should a reader go out of their way to post their reaction/opinions of a story? If they do, it's to express their own feelings or try to entice/warn other readers about a book.

The average reader (i.e. one who isn't an author or aspiring to be one) is just reviewing a story on its merits. They don't care if an authors feelings are hurt or if it's constructive criticism because - honestly - some get pissed about paying for a book that is rushed, boring, absurd or sloppy for other reasons.

And, honestly, we've all read indie books that cut corners or were pushed out too soon so we can't pretend these readers are being unreasonable. Since most readers aren't authors, why should they know or care how hard it is to write a book? An indie author shouldn't expect everyone to grade them on a curve or "understand" how hard it all is - they decided to put a book out there and expected people to pay for a story.

Being a professional author means readers have a right to be offended by the quality of a product they paid for. Nobody likes to feel cheated and authors should strive for an "A". If an "A for effort" or "Pass/Fail" is an author's attitude, I want to know so I can seriously avoid their books. They're not taking writing seriously enough to make a career out of it and I don't care to read "hobby" quality work.

Readers are in it for entertainment purposes and don't want other readers to get burned like they did so, yeah, it makes a lot of sense why readers write reviews for readers and not for the betterment and support of authors.

It's tough, I know, but I think authors might be happier if they remembered a reviewer and reader are not the same thing. Just like a reader and a fan are not the same thing.

[Lily]

Jane wrote: "Lily wrote: "Btw, I never buy any book, no matter what, that has nothing but reviews that read as "Free copy in exchange for free review." That's not an objective review. That's a bribe"

Lily, new..."

I understand that, believe me, I'm indie too and in the same boat. You take what you can get. But the whole "in exchange for an honest review" trend has long since become disturbing. I suspect it started with the best of intentions, but now it's become a disguise for, I was bribed or guilted into giving a 5 star review in exchange for a free book. Not cool.

For once, I would absolutely love to see a 1 star review that says "in exchange for an honest review."

So, to clarify, I meant the ones that have 5 stars and it's obvious this is not an honest review, this is a bribe.

[David]

Jane wrote: ...That's a bribe"

Yeah, I've done a couple of review exchanges - enough to know I HATE them. I always feel compelled to be more positive that I really think a book might deserve and there's always the risk that someone will get pissed because their book is terrible and you say so - so they retaliate by giving your book a lousy review. I don't do them anymore. Swapping beta reads is much more useful - I.e. trading with other authors to get opinions BEFORE a book is published, but all around review exchanges are a bad idea.

[Courtney]

The fallacy of R2Rs is anybody who is an author or wants to be an author feels compelled to be constructive as opposed to simply telling readers whether it was a good story or not.

[Lily]

It's unfortunate. I've done reviews privately where I left it up to the author. I felt it was 2 star book, in my opinion, as a reviewer, for example. Never does an author say, yes please post a 2 star review of my work of genius!

End result, the review exchange isn't for reviews. It's for 5 stars, and that fails. Very unfortunate when so many of us are struggling, just trying to get somewhere. At the same time, there are really amazing indie books that absolutely deserve 5 stars. Yet, that's seen as suspicious.

:(

[Anne]

None. I don't think readers buy books based on reviews. I'm not saying that they don't read them; I'm saying that unless the reviewer is spouting off the lack of skill or quality (and by that I mean typos and grammar), most readers can make up their minds for themselves.
I do, however, think that they purchase based on visibility and word of mouth.

[K.P.]

Ehh it's a minefield either way.

[D.A.]

It is an uphill battle to garner reviews as an Indie Author but not impossible. If your work is excellent AND you work your butt off marketing it(since you are your own PR team) reviews will come. Initially, my first few reviews were family and friends. Then because of positive word of mouth I started to gain reviews from friends of friends. This led to reviews from total strangers. One of them happened to be a book blogger. I used that blogger review to attract other bloggers. This led to a review in Social Life Magazine of the Hamptons. I now have over 70 Amazon reviews, seven blogger reviews (including blog radio)and numerous Goodreads reviews. This past week I was notified by Publishers Weekly that they are reviewing my novel.
Yes, it can be discouraging at first. But if you believe in your book and pour your heart and soul into the uphill climb then you can still reach your destination. Self-published work is judged more harshly than traditionally published work. Because there are so many books being published nowadays negative assumptions are being made before a book is even looked at (if at all). You'll need to bust down the doors because when you approach them...they are locked.
I never approached a literary agent, never wrote a query letter and never sent my book to a Traditional Publishing House. My choice was to keep control of my book and go Indie. This decision was made when I was informed no PR machine is getting behind a debut novelist, lower royalty rates and poor publishing deals that favor the house and not the author are commonplace.
Have faith though the game is changing as it once did in the record industry. Perseverance and great writing can still succeed!

[Tiger]

Honestly? I think it takes at least a hundred reviews before the average person is even made aware you exist. Of course that's not hard and fast, and it is somewhat arbitrary.

[Courtney]

As disheartening as it is, the casual reader probably does need about triple digits to be tempted or impressed.

Imagine if you read 6 novels a year or less - are you going to chance a random book or want to read what "everyone" is reading?

[CC]

Sadly I have to admit that I am swayed by reviews. I think part of the reason is that there are soooo damn many books, I only have time to read through x number of blurbs before choosing, so I read through ones that have a high rating. The more high ratings a book has received means a higher chance of me reading the blurbs and therefore a higher chance of me buying.
Sad right?
I know, but that's what I do when the authors which I read don't have any new material for a while and I'm out hunting.
If I'm just hunting shelves, then the cover definitely plays into it. I think shelf placement does too, because I know I have been intercepted before making it to the fiction isle a few times. If there is a good cover on a special rack or shelf at the front of the store, I get sucked in for a closer look.

Now I feel cheap, but can any of you actually say you don't operate in the same manner? Aren't we all visually oriented and don't we all look for a way to save time?

Don't leave me hanging, lol.

[Wayne]

I can only agree with some of what you say CC, especially about the cover. The cover pulls me in and the blurb finishes me off. I still tend to read authors I know but occasionally will look for something different. I have never used reviews to make the decision before but I am starting to pay more attention to them.

[Justin]

I've been trying to get more reviews since last month. I watched a webinar which stated one of the best ways to get your book recognition is to get reviews for it. Going off Courtney's opening statement for this thread I would like to think that 20 reviews does start to get peoples attention so at the very least I am aiming to get my books 20 reviews so it feels a bit more substantial.

[Ed]

I actually tend to just look at the book's description. The cover does have some play to it, but the title usually gets me to pick it up. I hardly ever read reviews. I look at them like Oscar nominations. I've stood in very long lines to see movies that had no chance of being nominated for anything better than special effects.

[MK]

I read reviews, but I don't know that I've ever looked at the number of reviews per se, I usually just read a handful of random ones to decide if the books seems like something I would be into. Often the reviews will shed light on things that the blurbs can't tell- for example, I'm fairly picky about romance plotlines, and if I see a bunch of people gushing about the sexy love triangle (probably the number one thing I am over right now) or if they are talking about how much they liked the military grit in the story (also something I have a hard time getting into) it lets me know that, while the reviews are good, this book is probably not for me.

[Justin]

Exactly. There are some who read reviews and decide whether or not it makes them want to read the book for themselves and others have other ways of determining whether or not they want to read a book.

[Courtney]

It's best to err on the side of caution and prudence, I think, when it comes to securing reviews for a book.

Some people don't care about reviews, others consult them. And there are readers who won't touch a book if it doesn't seem like it's being read - 2/3 instances where reviews influence.

Thus my mad respect for authors delaying releases by a month or two to accrue a few reviews so readers have something to browse when they finally publish. Not every ARC is a guaranteed 5-star, so it's not necessarily loading it with favorable reviews.

There's a group - Lovers of Paranormal - which constantly have R2R for members. You can volunteer up to 20 books (assuming it's paranormal) and get random reviews from people there. Not a bad deal, especially since everyone is avid readers there.

[Justin]

Courtney,
you raise a good point and remind me of another. I have no issue when people ask to review my book given they don't have a lot to read already. What bothers me is one's who ask to request to read and review my book but then I see them in 5 other threads of authors requesting reviews and its like when do u plan on reading all these and are you going to read em in order?

Sometimes I've never heard back from such people but that's when you just have to cut your losses and move on.

[Courtney]

It's sadly a numbers game - some will let you down while others go above and beyond.

It's better to set you up for a little disappointment than pass on opportunities.

[[deleted user]]

I don't read reviews. It's probably just laziness.

I click on an icon because of the title. I don't care about the image.

I read the description. Honest descriptions count for quite a lot.

Then if I can I download a sample from Kindle.

If after all that I still buy a book I don't like it's on me.

I have to say I don't often spend more than a couple of quid on an unknown.

This is in some ways not a market....

I occasionally write reviews. I don't know who I think reads them when I don't.

I think peer reviews are important and I think in some ways they work. I don't know how they work or what they do.

I think we are still learning how different independent publishing is from the industry and I think it is still working out.

[[deleted user]]

Lily wrote: "Heh, I do too. As a grphic designer, it personally offends me when people complain about bad photoshopped covers. Excuse me! Obviously created with GIMP, which is freeware. That's why it's bad. Obv..."

Hello? Excuse me!

GIMP is Open Source software. Open Source software is a social movement with idealistic principles.

Freeware indeed! Harrumph.