Fringe Fiction Unlimited discussion
Group Questions?
>
How many reviews do indie books need to get random readers?
Mod
Any book with less than 10 seems like it was only rated by friends of the author or blogs they solicited for reviews. It doesn't make a book bad, of course, but it doesn't give much confidence people who read a book are persuading other readers to pick it up, mentioning it in groups, etc
I can't really separate this for myself. From my experience (with my own books)...I still don't know. I sell so few that I can't say how many of them are actually "pulled in" by the number of reviews.Sorry.
Mod
All I was thinking is if people were voicing their theories and suspicions with some reasoning behind it there might be some insight or perspective to help authors work towards goals.
As a reader/book buyer, my eyes tend to glaze over after 10 reviews. I mean, I doubt I'm the only one who doesn't read every single review before deciding to buy. In truth, I'll read the first 3 reviews. If I'm still undecided, I might look through a few more.So, strictly from a reader's perspective, I would say about 3 positive objective reviews (and not just "I loved it"), and a total of 10 reviews, whether they're good or not, to let me know this book has actually been read. And... not just free copies to friends and family.
Btw, I never buy any book, no matter what, that has nothing but reviews that read as "Free copy in exchange for free review." That's not an objective review. That's a bribe,
Mod
I'm not about reading every review myself but multiple reviews with varied reactions make me confident it's not all a promotion tool or puppet theatre.
I honestly don't read reviews almost at all, unless I have a reason to. I look at the aggregate score, the blurb, and then the sample (which I've had to train myself to look at, honestly). Most of the time I'm turned on to the book by either a review request on my blog or a recommendation/posting over here or on another site. Often, I've talked to the author, in some capacity.So my "random reading" is at an all-time low, is what I'm saying.
Yeah, I'm with Jason. Reading reviews isn't something I do all that much. I'd rather save my reading energy for the book.I think a variety of reviews is most helpful for me as a book buyer. Also, reviews that talk about the story, not the author.
I saw one indie book on Amazon, 1 5 star review, no sales. The 1 review talked about how the author creates really good music. The book was post-apocalypse thriller, and nothing to do with music.
Mod
Courtney wrote: "Excellent point about reviews fixated on the authors talent for telling a story. It's worth mentioning but I'm buying a story, not a prolific author."Exactly. I'm buying a book not an ego.
Mod
Well, I don't think there's one magical number for everyone.
As a reader? One. If it's intelligently written and isn't simply random gushing or bashing.
Yes, a bad review that tells me what the reader disliked might be the one that makes me buy the book. Often, what someone else dislikes is exactly what I DO like.
Pity there aren't more intelligent reviews. One has to dig through so much hyperbolic juvenalia to find them.
Renee makes a good point. One very well-written objective review is pretty much all I need.It is a pity so many so-called reviews are rather badly written.
I still think reviews are overrated. Unless something just has overwhelming negative reviews along the lines of "this is unreadable" I pay very little attention. Gushing positive reviews usually seem a little contrived.
As far as I can tell, loads of gushing reviews only ever worked for Romance or Erotica books, becaus in those genres, there's most definitely a club. A romance reader likes to feel as if they're joining a club. It's a social thing. That's my impression.And then there's fandoms. That's a completely different story. Fans will buy the next book no matter what, and reviews tend to be used as a flag to show this person supports thee fandom.
Now, having said all of that, reviews have their usefulness. If you have a club or fandom, reviews can be a good form of communication. So, in my opinion, unknown indie authors rushing to collect reviews before establishing a platform or audience fo any kind, is kinda shooting themselves in the foot. Reviews are nice, but there's a lot of other thing that need work before you get a bunch of reviews. If you're still an unknown author, with no weebsite, no fans, the number of reviews won't really make a difference.
Mod
Just the presence of reviews, though, is worth something. I absolutely won't gamble on a book with friends and family reviews or none whatsoever. Any indie book I've ever read with only a handful were either a r2r or something personally recimmended to me - totally different animal there.
Otherwise I might add it to my to-read and see what reviews say in a few months. I just can't take the same chances on random books these days due to my strapped schedule :)
As strange as this might sound, I don't care if the book has 1000 reviews or none. If the blurb entices me and I feel I'd like the story, I'll buy it. Sometimes by the time I get to read it, it earned reviews,but they don't make me change my mind. For instance, I just finished a book I liked. After posting my review, I noticed a few people mentioned typos. The thing is the kind of typos they mentioned are usually the ones i don't miss, yet while I've seen a few, I haven't noticed any of the ones noted on these reviews. Meaning if they were indeed there (big if), they must have been rare or in places where the story was too captivating to notice (maybe).
Maybe if I had read the reviews before hand, I would have skipped the book, and I would have missed on a good read. And that's why I don't care about reviews. I'll mostly check them if the blurb doesn't tell me what I want to know.
That kind of phenomenom I've experienced many times. Posted a review of a book I really liked, see other reviews and wonder... did we even read the same book...?
I think that happens to everyone Lily, just goes to show how varied peoples tastes are I suppose.
Quentin wrote: "I think that happens to everyone Lily, just goes to show how varied peoples tastes are I suppose."I guess so, but sometimes it's really weird.
The number of reviews isn't a big deal to me. What's the difference between 10 or 40? If the synopsis entices me, I'm going to give it a try based on two things: 1.) I generally look at the low reviews to see if they are pointing out an unreadable/unedited book with a ton of errors. Though if the review itself has errors, I take it worth a grain of salt. And I'm referring to a consistent number of low reviews addressing errors--not just one or two reviews about it (since some readers are notorious for picking apart a book even if there isn't something to pick apart).
2.) Also, price is a factor. A book with tons of reviews but is too expensive I'll pass on. A book with few reviews but in my price range I'll take a chance on.
I think the goal isn't about soliciting reviews but writing a polished book and setting a price that will entice.
A lot of books have free previews - for me that's what makes me want to buy a book or not. To be honest, I've never really cared about the amount of reviews or notes. Because, let's be honest, there's so few people that rate books or write reviews and there's even less people whose so-called reviews are actually worth something.I tend to omit books that have only 1 or 2 notes or "Very good book!"-like kind of reviews though. I'd rather go for something completely unrated than that...
Mod
A blurb is generally too vague to indicate whether a story will be halfway as exciting as it's hooks and lures - assuming the blurb even is special. Even if it makes a great pitch, any author - regardless of talent - can make two paragraphs sound thrilling.
At least when real, random people are cheering or jeering I have a sense of what the author put out there - truly - not just what they want readers to see.
Mod
Reviews are most useful and accurate in aggregate. All books will have a few people who think they're the best thing since sliced bread and a few who think their the biggest waste of paper ever attempted. It's really much more about where the majority in the middle fall. I would venture that at about the time you score 30-50 reviews (assuming they are not by 30-50 of your closest friends and family) that you will have a pretty good indication about how in general readers are likely to regard your work. The only caveat to this that I can think of could be mistakes in marketing that cause your title to be rated lower than it deserves (i.e. are you getting it to the right reviewers - people who generally like and appreciate your genre when confronted by quality works from that genre or are a bunch of YA reviews opining about how they don't get your novel that really should be aimed at middle aged readers).
I will add though that unless your work goes viral for some reason (advertised on Ellen, Retweeted by some celebrity with a couple million followers, etc.) my experience has been that you still have to fight and market for every sale. I generally get a few additional sales after a good review, but the number is very much dependent on how many followers the reviewer has on their site and even then, those sales spikes tend to be short-term - within a day or two and certainly not any more than a week after the review is posted. Until you get picked up by a major publisher with a marketing department I think you can expect to do most if not all of the promotion yourself if you want to maintain sales.
Mod
Not every reader is a reviewer and not every reviewer decides on whether they wish to read a book based on reviews. A reader decides if a review will influence their choice on wanting to read a book.
How are reviews not for the author? It's their book for one and two if they go out and get those potential readers or even reviews how are the reviews not for them? Authors can also use reviews as possible testimonials to help promote to get what...? oh right more reviews.
So yeah, I've always hated that statement.
I know it's a bit off topic but still...I believe the real question should not be How many reviews do indie books need to get random readers? But rather How many reviews do indie books need to pop in front of potential readers who can then decide how many reviews it takes to coax them into buying the book. :p
The thing is, when you search Amazon, you can only buy the books that are shown to you. If the indie books is on the 1,200,387 page, the chances that someone will find it and buy it are zero to none.
Or there's the question about using the qualifier "indie." Remainder bins are full of traditionally published books, some by known authors, that most readers have never heard of, so the original question could well be "how many reviews do books need?"
Mod
Maybe it's just me but I'd rather stick to a SINGLE review by someone whose taste I trust than a dozen of random reviews by random people.Because, let's be honest, vast majority of "reviews" are just opinions and it's pretty hard to tell if we're really looking for the same things in books. So it might be useful, of course, but just to some degree. And in my case, this degree is pretty low. But like I said, maybe it's just me...
Mod
Reviews remark on the quality of book and are rated to reflect what that reviewer felt. If the author finds valuable feedback there, great, but it's not submitted generally in the hopes an author will improve or feel validated. Reviews are advising readers on what books should be read (in their opinion) and which might not be worth their time or money.
In author-heavy groups I frown a lot at the perception of reviews. Maybe it's because nobody has been strictly a reader for quite a while. Authors forget how about ten years ago average, random readers weren't reviewers also.
Readers (people who haven't published and may never intended to) review a book to express their feelings. They're in it for themselves - catharsis, gratification, attention - and want to validate their opinions, not an author's career.
Maybe some want to support authors who impressed them but I think more are just thinking "as a reader" and what "readers deserve".
From that position - readers deserve a good book more than author's deserve a good review. Why else do they take it so personal when an author writes a "bad" story? The author wasted their time and took their money for something that wasn't done well, rushed out, a carbon copy of a more famous book...
The list goes on and on. It's not always gracious or constructive but readers aren't reviewers. They're people who love books and have opinions about them.
I think one of the biggest pitfalls self-published authors succumb to is believing every reader is a reviewer. Reviewers have blogs and followings, readers read and some like telling people what they thought of a book.
I feel this topic question can only be fairly answered from a personal readers' perspective, in which case, you're going to get a variety of answers, and all of them will be right.From an author's perspective, impossible to tell. One? Ten? 100? Who knows? Only time will tell.
From my perspective, random readers have always come from friends of friends, type of thing. Word of mouth. Having at least a few decent reviews for friends of friends to check out before making a buying decision, helps a lot. It's not the end all, be all, but it does help.
Let's say I happen to be a friend of that reviewer who praised the author's music that I mentioned earlier. The reviewer (a friend of the author) says, check out this book! My friend wrote it! I go, okay, I'll check it out! And then I read the one review.
Game over. I don't buy. And I avoid this friend of the author like the plague.
Reviews aren't laws. They're not how to manuals, no matter how well-written. You can't make anyone. But you can certainly work hard on building a decent enough lure, and reviews are one clear-cut way to do that.
So, question truly is, as a reader/buyer, how many decent reviews would entice you to buy a book from an unknown indie author?
Mod
I'm not as picky lol 3 reviews for me. Of course, that's after I'm intrigued by both the blurb and genre.
Barring a personal recommendation or review request? Three decent reviews would get me to look at the sample.
Courtney wrote: "...From that position - readers deserve a good book more than author's deserve a good review...."FTW.
Readers deserve a good book.
Authors earn a good review.
Are we talking legit reviews or the common opinion-reviews?In most cases, three reviews would get me to look at the sample. In some cases one might be enough if I found there something that really caught my attention.
Mod
Courtney wrote: "I love that five makes me so picky lol":D
Actually, I'm much more likely to be put off an indie book if it has a really bad cover - the title in neon green or whatever - rather than if it doesn't have many reviews. But assuming the cover is fine (I'm shallow, okay?) and the blurb looks good, for me to buy a random indie book, it'd either need about twenty or so reviews giving it a range of ratings (so you know they're not from the author's mum/nanna/best friend) or just one review from someone who I really trust. There are a few people on Goodreads who share an almost identical taste in books with me, so a good rating from one of those people would put a book on my radar.
Having said that, I just bought an indie book on Amazon with no reviews at all purely on the basis that it has my name in the title (first name and surname - both spelled correctly). I'm the main character - I couldn't not buy it!
Mod
Nobody ever passed on a book because it's cover was too professional, posh and/or pretty. Anything less is like playing Russian roulette with prospective readers and pointing the gun at your foot.
Claire inspirate me to start a new topic. This should be fun...
Courtney wrote: "I'm going to say this about covers then shut my face:Nobody ever passed on a book because it's cover was too professional, posh and/or pretty. Anything less is like playing Russian roulette with..."
Yup. I'm more likely to consider a book that has a plain white cover with the title and author name in black ariel 12pt than some fussy thing with millions of colours.
Mod
Mod
Heh, I do too. As a grphic designer, it personally offends me when people complain about bad photoshopped covers. Excuse me! Obviously created with GIMP, which is freeware. That's why it's bad. Obviously.
HELLO! "Don't judge a book by its cover!"Now, see, that's funny because when you're talking about people it's true. When you are actually talking about books, sometimes you CAN in fact judge by the cover lol.
Ok I think this topic has been hijacked but this would make a great topic of its own.
In your professional, "thinking as the average reader" opinion - how many reviews do you suspect an indie book need AT MINIMUM to get walk-in business from random readers?