To Facebook or not to Facebook

[Owen]

We have been encouraging people to follow us via our Amazon author pages, but no telling how successful that's been.

[L.]

I imagine that a lot of the same people who are on FB are on Twitter...so a lot of messages are repeating thesmelves. On the other hand, there are so many messages that they disappear very quickly. So I'm thinking the best strategy is to promote at a different place each day.
If there is a best strategy, that is. Since publishing my book 2 weeks ago, I've become aware of myself as a tiny molecule in a vast ocean. My odds of being heard are molecular.

[L.]

So I have done promo on Facebook Twitter and here. What about Pinterest?
I get the feeling that the same folks who are active on one are active on all of them. So I don't know if you are just repeating yourself being on all of these.

[L.]

QUOTE: I've seen no firm evidence that good reviews are important to selling books, and I believe that is a common misconception (and pitfall) for new authors.
END QUOTE

You have a point. If a book has 200 5-star reviews, that suggests it might be a good book. If it has mostly one-stars, I'll skip it. But the majority of books are somewhere in the middle and I suspect many writers swap reviews with each other, and how honest is one writer going to be if they know the other one is reviewing *their* book? So, a couple of 4's and 5's are good for a writer's ego, but that alone isn't really a convincer.

So what is the real convincer? The sample. It is really true that your first few paragraphs make or break the book. If the first page turns me off me with bad writing, or bores me with a mess of facts, or grosses me out with too much violence...forget it. But if it intrigues, fascinate and hooks me...sold!!

[G.G.]

L. wrote: "QUOTE: I've seen no firm evidence that good reviews are important to selling books, and I believe that is a common misconception (and pitfall) for new authors.
END QUOTE"

But I'm willing to bet that the more reviews a book has the more likely it will show up early in a search. (First 10 pages instead of the last 10,000.) In the end, reviews are still important.

[Owen]

G.G. wrote: "But I'm willing to bet that the more reviews a book has the more likely it will show up early in a search. (First 10 pages instead of the last 10,000.) In the end, reviews are still important. "

That may depend on where one is searching. My suspicion is that's not the case on Amazon. The key thing is: where do people go to find a new book? That's different for everyone and different for different genres. In some cases, reviews may help visibility, but overall, it's dubious.

The key distinction, of course, is that reviews for new authors are one thing, and reviews for established authors are another. So the real question, as it relates to new authors trying to get visibility for their first book, is this: For a first book by a new author (first 3-6 months after release), is it possible to predict the book's sales performance with reasonable confidence based on the number reviews and overall rating?

In looking at Amazon (only) for 2 years, my conclusion is no. That conclusion is not iron-clad, as I haven't done a rigorous analysis, but it's a fairly strong impression. I have a weaker impression that reviews that were solicited actually hurt sales, at least in some genres.

I do agree that reviews can be important, at some point, but the question is complex and they important may well more as a negative influence than a positive one. So I consider reviews a two-edged sword, to be handled with care.

[L.]

The helpfulness of reviews: why do you feel they can hurt? You mean if they are bad reviews? Yes, that can definitely hurt.

I published on April 29 and am struggling for those first handful of reviews. Why? Because a lot of promo sites require you to have 7 or 10 reviews before they will even take your advertising dollars.

[Linda]

I agree. Facebook isn't the best social media tool for authors. I set up an Author Page a few months ago only because I felt readers expected me to have one (most visitors don't 'Like' the page; they come to look at pictures). It appears that readers want authors to be on the top social media sites (Twitter, FB, Goodreads, Google+) as well as the top book selling sites (Amazon, B&N, iBooks, Kobo).

[L.B.]

Hello! I'm fairly new to using social media. I've only recently been active on Twitter, FB page, Goodreads because I want to be active in promoting my book. Although I don't have years to analyze which social media tool works best, out of the three I've been using, Goodreads and Twitter have been most useful. However, you never know... I think the reason I'll keep my FB page going is only because there's a chance (as small as it may be) that it may be helpful in some way in the long run... I'm willing to continue to work on it and find out. It's free to have one and takes only a little extra time to manage, so why not? :)

-Happy reading & writing!

[Linda]

<...out of the three I've been using, Goodreads and Twitter have been most useful.>

For me too.

[Owen]

L. wrote: "The helpfulness of reviews: why do you feel they can hurt? You mean if they are bad reviews? Yes, that can definitely hurt.

I published on April 29 and am struggling for those first handful of rev..."

My info is to a degree anecdotal, so take that into a account. I feel good reviews can hurt if the reader perceives them as not being credible. Consider: a reader sees a book, buys it, reads it and is motivated to review it. That review is likely to have credibility.

Now this: "I was given a free copy in return for an honest review." What does this say? First, the reviewer did not choose this book. They did not pay for it. They were asked to review it and agreed. Does the book represent what they read of their own free choice? Do they even like the genre?

Right there, the reviewer has put themselves outside of the set of people who bought the book because they wanted to. And that means the reviewer tends to lack credibility with that group compared to a reviewer from within that group (real customers).

Next: why did the author have to give the book away to get reviews? Doesn't the author believe that book is good enough to merit reviews on its own? Obviously not. So the author is seen as trying to manipulate the reader by giving away their work to get "honest" reviews. If the reader feels manipulated, they aren't likely not to believe that positive reviews are honest either. So if there is a one negative review, that single review is given enhanced credibility by all the positive reviews that reader is suspicious of.

Reader do not think like authors. They have not been told incessantly that reviews are important; they are not aware of the dogma that reviews are vital to sell books. They do not appreciate that review swaps and circle might be good-faith marketing efforts (and many probably wouldn't believe it). They don't know (or much care) what Bookbub requires to accept a book.

About negative reviews: yes, negative reviews can sell books effectively. It all depends on what they say. If they are complaining about the content (as often happens with books that contain sex), they are basically ads. If they are especially mean-spirited, people might buy the book to see what the deal is. There are many things a negative review might say that can intrigue a reader. So it is not a simple question.

But the crux of the whole situation is this: We are not marketing to other authors. We are marketing to readers. But who do we talk to? Authors. Who do we get advice from? Authors. And deep in the fish bowl with other authors, we get these ideas about reviews, about FB, about Twitter, and free book promotions.

And much of that is valuable, but some does not apply. We authors are not trying to sell the same thing to the same people. Your readers and mine may be very different types of people. If we want to sell books, we need to study and understand what readers want, how readers they think -- not in general, but the readers who might be interested in the specific book we have to sell. We need to get to know them.

Selling a story is entering into a personal conversation with a reader. If you wanted to invite a person to sit down and listen to your story, how would you go about doing that? Who would you expect this person to believe? Another reader like him or her? Or some person you whom you gave story to "in return for an honest review"?

[Owen]

L. wrote: "I published on April 29 and am struggling for those first handful of reviews. Why? Because a lot of promo sites require you to have 7 or 10 reviews before they will even take your advertising dollars."

PS: Your book has barely been out 2 weeks then. Reviews take a lot longer than that. This is a long game: success is measured over months and years, not weeks. Promo sites often want to see that an author has a proven track record, and they are in fact doing new authors a favor: ad dollars spent on a first book by new author usually have a poor return. It most often takes a long to time (years) to build a readership that makes paid advertising feasible. The best way to build readership is another book, and another, and...

It's most often best not to rush. The reviews will take care of themselves, in time.

[Rachael]

It's odd: a few of my Facebook posts for this month have disappeared and I don't seem able to recover them. Has anyone any ideas?

[Claudine]

I set up a facebook page for my children's book series https://www.facebook.com/lucylickmenot I like it as a way to let people know when the next book will be out, or a review is available to read on the website and other promotions. I've paid for a couple of ads and I did get a few sales, nothing major, but I think it has been more helpful than the Goodreads ad which didn't do anything for me. When I release the second book in the series I'll be paying for another FB ad and will hopefully see if it helps again.

[Diana]

Dwayne wrote: "Ken wrote: "Is anyone getting anything at all out of an author's page on Facebook?"

Other than occasional support from individuals, no. I'm kinda over Facebook. I'll keep the account open a while,..."

Facebook has weird algorithms about what it shows in your newsfeed. It has a lot to do with what you like. If you go to the link on the left side for pages feed, then you see pages that you otherwise didn't see. If you like something, or comment on something, then posts on those pages or people are more likely to show in your newsfeed.

That is why you have to be very active on facebook with lots of different stuff, so people like it and it keeps it in their newsfeed to see the next things.

I can't stand how facebook decides what is important enough to show. I even miss out seeing pictures of my great neices, unless I go to my neices' pages, because they don't often post. I love facebook for keeping up with my authors, but even if a page is active, I often don't see the posts. Facebook is pretty evil.

[Diana]

Ken wrote: "It's this person—Shhhh...https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=......"

I recognized her immediately, but I'm 55. Young people have probably never seen her, since I don't think she was an activist for anything. I think more people still recognize Audrey Hepburn, because of all the good things she did after retiring from acting, so you can find purses with her image, and stuff like that.

[Diana]

Ken wrote: "Lately I've been tweeting pictures of my paperback books with overlays of excerpts from the books. This overcomes the character limits of Twitter. While I can't say the mini-ads have been success..."

Use the facebook like button to post your book cover on facebook from amazon--it is on the right, below the buying options.

Make sure your security on your facebook pages for promotion are set to allow everyone to see, not just friends. Unless you sell erotica, then make a separate closed group page, so dirty pictures don't upset the trolls.

[Diana]

Christina wrote: "Okay, I'm pretty sure I remember the picture of Lauren Bacall, but going back through my page feed, I can't find it, but I noticed something else that is irksome and definitely puts me closer to ca..."

On facebook on the top left, there should be something that says "newsfeed." Click the down arrow next to that and change it to "Most Recent" instead of "Top Stories." Beware, after a few days facebook changes it back to "Top Stories," because they are jerks, so you have to watch that and change it every few days. Then you see more, but not everything, with chronological order maintained.

[Christina]

Diana wrote: "Christina wrote: "Okay, I'm pretty sure I remember the picture of Lauren Bacall, but going back through my page feed, I can't find it, but I noticed something else that is irksome and definitely pu..."

It works differently for an author page using Page Manager. I don't have a personal Facebook account, so I am barred from a great many things. My page likes do not count, I actually have to jump through hoops just to like a page and now, I can't use the app to like posts. I have to go to the website, which is cumbersome.

It almost feels as if they are actively discouraging my use of a service they freely offer because I will not pay to promote with them. (And their promotion scams are another diatribe for anoter day.)

[[deleted user]]

Diana wrote: "I recognized her immediately, but I'm 55. Young people have probably never seen her, since I don't think she was an activist for anything..."

I write classic Science Fiction for readers who, like me, loved that stuff. I assumed my audience was older, but I'm really not sure. As for Lauren Bacall, I probably respect her more for not being an activist for anything. I think celebrities who use their fame to push a political agenda have an unfair advantage over us "regular" citizens and effectively drown out our voices. As a result, we end up with a skewed government that reflects what Hollywood wants instead of the common sense of the average person who has to live with what they give us.

Diana wrote: "Use the facebook like button to post your book cover on facebook from amazon--it is on the right, below the buying options...."

Unfortunately it doesn't work for an author's page, only the personal page.

[Diana]

Wow, sounds like facebook has messed with authors too much. No wonder a bunch of the authors I follow have two accounts.

[Annie]

I've been sucked into the black hole that is Twitter. Love it! How useful it is, I don't know. Just another app to be addicted to....!

[Ross]

I'm starting to wonder if FB really deserves the hype and respect it has gotten, at least in terms of promotion for indie authors.

Perhaps I'll put up a promo post once a week for my novel Child of Privilege, but mostly I'll post pictures shared from the Writers United and IAuthor sites. I don't have enough likes yet to access the detailed Page Insights stats from FB, so I really no have idea how many people I'm reaching. Frankly, I'm starting to lose interest in it.

I spend most of my time on Twitter now @rossponderson and seem to be doing much better there in attracting followers.

Once I get my blog going (soon!), I'll be spending a great deal of my time there. I've thought about shutting my FB down completely, but I think (as has been mentioned here before) that it is expected even for unknown authors to have an FB page. I've encountered some reviewers who won't review your book unless you can provide an FB link, perhaps for whatever "credibility" it may impart. Who knows?

Writing my book was easy compared to selling it!!

[Hayden]

I gave up on FB. I post stuff to my personal one but the Books page just never did anything. I think FB is overrated for most of it;s advertising claims. What few results I get seem to be from Real World friends.

[Owen]

Ross wrote: "I've encountered some reviewers who won't review your book unless you can provide an FB link, perhaps for whatever "credibility" it may impart. Who knows?"

One has to wonder what credibilty those reviewers have. We've never had any presense on FB. This has not only not hurt us, it's helped by removing a distraction.

My point is not to bash FB. My point is thsat if you can't tell is FB is helping, it's not helping. Many people use FB simply on faith -- it's a "thing" that "everybody" does, so there must be some point to it? Well, no. Materially, FB benefits very few people; this especially applies to indie authors.

If FB is not putting money in your bank account that you can measure, your efforts are better spent elsewhere.

[Ross]

Owen wrote: "Many people use FB simply on faith -- it's a "thing" that "everybody" does, so there must be some point to it? Well, no. Materially, FB benefits very few people; this especially applies to indie authors. ..."

Point well taken, Owen.

I think reviewers interpret FB as a measure of "validation" for indie authors: a serious indie author will have an FB page. Not that I agree with this premise because I don't. It wouldn't take much for me to close my FB page down altogether. I simply maintain mine for the sake of appearances, and, as you succinctly state: because "everybody does."

As for reviewer credibility, that's an issue I can't address. But, let's face it: we need the reviewers far more than they need indie authors. They have an ample supply of blog material reviewing "household name" writers, best-selling authors, and the authors of books readily available at B&N and other stores. Consider the growing number of them who won't even consider reviewing self-pubbed books.

If they mandate an author having a FB page in order to be reviewed, it's their ballpark; if you want to play there, you must play according to their rules.

Again, not that I like it; nor does it strike me as logical. But that appears to be the way it is...at least from my vantage point.

[[deleted user]]

I still have my author's FB page, even after questioning it initially when I started this thread. I no longer post as often as I used to. Now and then, when I have something to post, I'll try to update. Not serious about it now, though.

[Owen]

Ross wrote: "But, let's face it: we need the reviewers far more than they need indie authors..."

Those are valid points. I'll just add this. In poking around, I've noted that a lot of what I see about marketing, and especially reviews, has it's roots in 2012. My impression is that's about when the emphasis on reviews really got going. But things have changed a lot from 2012, and the "conventional wisdom" does not seem to have caught up.

"Conventional wisdom" is inherently conservative, but the book market is changing rapidly. By the time we see a shift in the "conventional wisdom", it's already outdated and may be devalued.

As always, there are institutions that have a vested interest in promoting the "status quo" to defend and support their position and make themselves appear relevant. Telling which are actually are relevant and beneficial is aiming for moving target in a morass. And by the time you get it figured out., the game may have changed.

It's a tough business we're in.

[Ross]

Owen wrote: "It's a tough business we're in."

I will gladly drink to that, sir.

[Ross]

Ken wrote: "I still have my author's FB page, even after questioning it initially when I started this thread. I no longer post as often as I used to. Now and then, when I have something to post, I'll try to ..."

That's pretty much how I see it, Ken. If I see an intriguing picture or inspirational graphic on pages like Writers United or Iauthor, I'll share it perhaps with an added comment. I'll still post promos there pro forma, but I have grave doubts about their effectiveness.

[Ross]

Hayden wrote: "I gave up on FB. I post stuff to my personal one but the Books page just never did anything. I think FB is overrated for most of it;s advertising claims. What few results I get seem to be from Real..."

Hayden, somehow I think you have a great deal of company there ... myself included.

[J.M.]

Facebook has not generated one sale for me. Neither has twitter, linkedin or pinterest. The countless hours I spent on social media building a platform were a huge waste of my valuable time. Sure, lots of people "like" my facebook author page and I have tons of followers on twitter, 99% of whom want to sell me a service and I get messages on linkedin regularly from lonely businessmen looking for a relationship. Does anyone from all my efforts bullsh^^ing on social media even have the slightest interest in my novel? Nope. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00T3T3P1A

[J.M.]

L. wrote: "QUOTE: I've seen no firm evidence that good reviews are important to selling books, and I believe that is a common misconception (and pitfall) for new authors.
END QUOTE

You have a point. If a boo..."
It's been my experience that good reviews are the only thing that is actually generating sales. If your reviewer is well known and places a review on multiple sites and blogs, people do trust their opinion and want to read the book too. Their presence online is currently more well known than most fledgling authors. In saying that though if your novel isn't professionally edited and polished with no typos and perfect structure you will suffer the consequences.

[Owen]

J.M. wrote: "L. wrote: "QUOTE: I've seen no firm evidence that good reviews are important to selling books, and I believe that is a common misconception (and pitfall) for new authors.
END QUOTE..."

Just clarify (that quote is from me), "good" in the original context meant just 4 or 5 star reviews, not well-written and informative reviews by a credible source. "Good" in that latter context, especially in a well-trafficed blog or site, will sell books. But they are also uncommon.

The thing that I've observed to be the most powerful driver of sales in Amazon is the "Also bought" list. If you book ends up high on the "also bought" lists of other books that are selling well, that has a powerful impact. And it grows: the better your book sells, the more lists it appears on. That gives your book a degree of credibility, which influences how readers intrepret your blurb and your reviews. But like most things in this business, it's not really subject to our control.

[Erin]

I don't think my Author page on FB is doing that well for me either. I have one person who's a fan who checks in via that page, but no one else (even though 290 people liked it). Once I ran a giveaway for 3 free ebooks and I had no response. Then, the day before it was to end, I got something like 4 people who posted. I just don't know. Been trying to post stuff that's interesting and relevant to what I'm doing, but it doesn't look like anyone is interested.

[Ross]

J.M. wrote: "Facebook has not generated one sale for me. Neither has twitter, linkedin or pinterest. The countless hours I spent on social media building a platform were a huge waste of my valuable time..."

J.M., our author experiences seem to parallel each other rather closely.

Our novels Child of Privilege seem to be roughly similar in genre and content (dark psychological thrillers). Our reviews (and I readily recognized one of your reviewers) are nearly alike in number and quality.

Our experiences with social media (and resulting attitudes) are also very much alike.

The only avenue that has worked for me to any degree has been direct solicitation of blogger/reviewers. It sometimes helps a little if a blogger really takes an interest in your book and invites you on for a spotlight feature or interview.

But, as we all know, most reviewers are swamped. Just this week, I received three very nice query responses stating that they would love to review my novel, but were simply too swamped to take on any more commitments. And many, many more simply refuse to even consider self-pubs.

I truly don't have any expectations anymore. Anything good that comes my way in terms of reviews, sales, or publicity is a blessing and I savor it.

I can tell from the tone of your post that you are truly discouraged. I also know that feeling well. Unfortunately, we indie authors have jumped into a very large and waaaaay crowded ocean.

The only encouragement I can offer (and I know it sounds trite) is to just keep plugging along and working the social media machine, taking maybe one baby-step a day if that's all you feel like doing on any given day.

We're all trying to attract that proverbial lightning strike; sadly, on most days, there doesn't seem to be a cloud in the sky.

I hope this helps a little. And hang in there.

[Ross]

Erin wrote: "I don't think my Author page on FB is doing that well for me either. I have one person who's a fan who checks in via that page, but no one else (even though 290 people liked it). Once I ran a givea..."

Erin, if I may ask, how heavily did you publicize your giveaway?

[Lisa]

Has anyone tried using targeted facebook ads to get potential readers to visit their website where they sell their books or use ads to gain readers for a mailing list (by directing them to a page that would give them a free download of their book in return for entering their email or something like that)?

I have been watching a series of free videos by Mark Dawson about it and it sounds interesting. I've only watched the first couple of videos so far, but they are very informative.

http://www.selfpublishingformula.com/

I can't remember where I originally found the link. I don't know Dawson personally or anything.

[Justin]

I've had my Facebook Author Page for a few years now. I almost have 600 followers but not even a quarter of them see most of my posts. Usually when I post text statuses they don't generate any likes or comments. If I post images some tend to get more views than normal but it varies. Where I get the most views, comments and likes is when I share someone else's content or image. The sad part is I can reach people with other peoples posts but yet when it comes to my own, I barely get anything.


The reason nobody sees my posts is because of Facebook algorithms. Facebook algorithms are a very strange and screwy system. I actually wrote a post on it which you can read here, http://jbienvenue.webs.com/apps/blog/...-
Basically, Facebook determines who they believe will like and see your posts. One reason you don't get a lot of views or likes is because people don't see and why don't they see? Because Facebook wants you to pay them to boost your posts. It's all about money.

I myself have ran one ad with FB back in 2013 and while it got me followers and interest at the time, the interest did not translate to sales and after the ad ended everything went back to normal. It's all quite a process, is it worth trying to work to your favor? That's really up to you but the best bet is to see if there's a pattern or loophole in Facebook's algorithms and do your best to work off it.

[Michael]

I certainly don't see any sales from Facebook, but I really believe it's a vital part of my platform. I treat my Facebook and Twitter as methods to show my personality, be open and friendly and a little irreverent. For me, making all those little connections are important. Also, in terms of marketing my book, it at least looks good to have all those venues available.

[T.L.]

Yeah, if you're looking for sales fb is fairly useless.

However, I have found some really nice and helpful author groups on there, and it's great to have some moral support. Things can get tough when your books aren't selling as well as you'd hoped, and to know others are going through the same thing, and can perhaps offer advice is great.

I'm sort of hoping fb is at least helping to get my name out there a bit. Every little helps, I guess.

I linked my fb & Twitter so I don't have to do x2 separate posts.

xx