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What should narrators improve?
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"Shoshana wrote: "Characters can be very difficult, and, I have found that each narrator has his/her own style. Being too dramatic can also be a trap, unless you have strong theatrical experience. R..."I have listened to samples of the narrators that have been mentioned here. It has been extremely helpful to have specific narrators mentioned. From what I have heard of them, I agree that they all possess an effortlessness in their narrating style that is very listenable.
Steelwhisper wrote: "I would like more narration which is simply a clearly enunciated reading of the book text. No music, no acting (at all), just the words and slowly and clearly enough so they are easy to follow. Tha..."You might try books by Joe Hempel. I found his narration rather flat & it sounds as if that's what you're looking for. He was technically very good, I think.
I've listened to lots of audiobooks, I buy a lot of my own and I also listen to many which are offered free in return for a review. I now make sure I listen to the sample! I'm afraid that some recordings are of such poor quality and editing so bad that no matter how good the story or narrator, the whole experience is marred.These days, listeners expect a high quality recording. I often wonder who has the last word on what is suitable for final release, can't they hear the sibilance and other faults? These make a narrator sound bad, very bad,
Who does have the last word on quality control, anyone know?
I found Bossypants seemed to have too much of the pauses removed, so it sounded like there was no breathing breaks between sentences, which was distracting. I found Happy Accidents was narrated perfectly. Felt natural.
Steelwhisper wrote: "I would like more narration which is simply a clearly enunciated reading of the book text. No music, no acting (at all), just the words and slowly and clearly enough so they are easy to follow. Tha..."Isn't this problematic in a dialogue?
I listened to someone like this and couldn't tell when someone was speaking vs when it was narration, nor if it was a male or female character talking.
Steelwhisper wrote: "The best way to separate dialogue, and to allow for the meaning of a sentence to settle, is slow reading, with pauses where they belong and between sentences and dialogue. Natural voices also help. "I understand the feeling. For me, sometimes I simply have to "get used" to the narrator's speaking/reading speed -- after an hour or so, my ear "tunes in". I'm sure you have, but I will ask all the same. Have you toyed with playback speed? Some people on this forum use devices that allow for speeding up or slowing down the narration. Some devices, I understand, allow for this option without a significant change in pitch of the narrator's voice.
John wrote: "Foyer: It's pronounced ˈfȯi-ˌ(y)ā."What?
John wrote: "Foyer: It's pronounced ˈfȯi-ˌ(y)ā."That's the British English pronunciation, which is also used by many Americans, particularly those who are well read, educated, traveled, etc. Nonetheless, the official U.S. English pronunciation is foy-er with a distinct 'r' sound, and should be expected from a character or 1st person narration where that character is from the States and NOT liable to use the British pronunciation.
Which, actually, leads to an entirely different conversation, about whether narrators should use "common" pronunciations when they differ from "proper" pronunciations - especially with things like, say, Julius Caesar.
That's the British English pronunciation, which is also used by many Americans, particularly those who are well read, educated, traveled, etc. Non..."
And French, I believe. Although you can say it ˈfoiər, it came to use from the French and, in my opinion, we should pronounce it as if it did.
Steelwhisper, you have a really good point. The original "talking books" were for the blind and now all kinds of people are using audiobooks, but I don't think any particular attention has been paid to the audience with hearing issues. It will include many of us as we get older. Recordings with lots of voices and sound effects are entertaining for some people but could be totally indecipherable for others.
John wrote: "And French, I believe. Although you can say it ˈfoiər, it came to use from the French and, in my opinion, we should pronounce it as if it did. "I think it depends on who is speaking in the book. Americans don't pronounce 'impossible' like the French do IIRC from my French class 40 years ago. The town of Versailles is pronounced 'ver-sail-less' by native Kentuckians. I don't expect every character to have a perfect or distinct accent, but it adds to the story to get some of the more obvious pronunciations correct.
John wrote: "And French, I believe. Although you can say it ˈfoiər, it came to use from the French and, in my opinion, we should pronounce it as if it did. "I think it depends on who is speaking in the book. Americans don't pronounce 'impossible' like the French do IIRC from my French class 40 years ago. The town of Versailles is pronounced 'ver-sail-less' by native Kentuckians. I don't expect every character to have a perfect or distinct accent, but it adds to the story to get some of the more obvious pronunciations correct.
John wrote: "And French, I believe. Although you can say it ˈfoiər, it came to use from the French and, in my opinion, we should pronounce it as if it did."Funny thing--I am like that about many French words. I grew up with a French mother and grandmother, and in certain cases, I learned a word as a French word before I ever head it used as an English word acquired from French. I cannot even bring myself to use "lieu" as an English word (like "in lieu of") because to me "lieu" is NOT "loo." So I just won't use it unless I am speaking French and get to say it properly!
However, "foyer" is not one of these words to me. When I hear an American speaking English and pronouncing "foyer" as "fwah-YAY," it sounds pretentious to me. The same goes to me for narrators who have American accents and use a "yod" pronunciation for words like "student" ("STYOO-dent") and "Tuesday" (TYOOS-day). I don't mind hearing this type of pronunciation from someone with an English accent, because to me, that's expected.
I've only read a few of the responses but I LOVE when a narrator performs a book instead of just reading it. IF the book says the character moans then I want to hear a moan. If the character laughs then I want to hear a laugh. There is a fine line between overacting and performing and when it's done right the experience is golden for a reader.
Steelwhisper wrote: "Taria wrote: "I've only read a few of the responses but I LOVE when a narrator performs a book instead of just reading it. IF the book says the character moans then I want to hear a moan. If the ch..."I am a blind audiobook consumer and prefer that the narrators interject some life into the book rather than make it a dull reading--like "Talking Books" used to be. With technology I can use my computer to read text in a straightforward delivery and I am happy to have the option of a real person reading with feeling--not too much though.
I certainly sympathize with anyone who has a disability that limits access to certain audio. I'm afraid the majority of audiobook readers nowadays prefer the differentiation of character voices and a reading of the text that reflects the emotional content. It's one of the reasons audiobooks have been growing exponentially since the advent of people like Jim Dale, Simon Vance, Katherine Kellgren, etc. who elevated narration to a performance art. Few of us like lots of background music or sound effects though.
Other than the few books that still come out as straight readings or the backlog of older audiobooks that typically were that way, perhaps a good text to speech technology solution will work for you? Unfortunately, there is no one style that suits everyone and we in this group prove all the time that people have different tastes. So far, the marketplace is responding to what the majority wants. I do wish you luck in finding more of what you want though.
Steelwhisper - Can you provide some examples for me/us of audiobooks where the performance of the text makes it difficult for the hearing-impaired to understand?When the perform v. just read debates pop up - and it happens a lot - I often get the sense that people are in greater agreement than they think they are, because language gets ambiguous fast.
My suspicion is that the sort of narration that presents a challenge is when it's over-acted to an extreme and ESPECIALLY when conflicting sounds are introduced - music and sound effects, radio drama style.
I have a hard time with the concept that character differentiation and intentional emphasis would present a challenge to any listener. I recognize, however, that I do not have a hearing impairment so will not make claims regarding things I can't and don't experience myself. Hence the curiosity.
As a largely secondary note, there's a big difference between character voices and inflection being a problem, and BAD or INCORRECT character voices and inflection being a problem. A lousy contractor may install a door crooked, but that doesn't mean that all contractors are making a mistake by installing doors.
For those who have trouble with audiobooks that have a lot of acting, have you tried Braille audio? There's a person in my real life reading group who has processing issues that prevent her from absorbing what she reads in print. Her vision is fine, but she uses Brsille audio for all her reading. I took a look at their library and saw that none of the books I looked at had been narrated by the same narrators as the commercial editions. I bet they'd work great for people with hearing issues.
How narrators are picked for narration of a book.After listening to audiobooks for 20 to 25 yrs. I've come to the conclusion that being a NARRATOR is just as much of a SKILL, ART, and GIFT as being an actor, writer, or an artist.
Just because a narrator is an ACTOR doesn't mean He/She can NARRATE a book.
Derrick wrote: "Steelwhisper - Can you provide some examples for me/us of audiobooks where the performance of the text makes it difficult for the hearing-impaired to understand?Derrick, I'm so glad you asked this, because I have been wondering the same thing. I would think that more emphasis and variation in delivery to differentiate characters' voices, etc., would make for easier listening, but like you, I don't have a hearing impairment, so can't rely on my own experiences.
One thing that really bothers me is when a narrator only has one voice for the other gender. I was reading a book recently where the female reader had many different voices or intonation styles to differentiate the female characters, but all of the male characters sounded identical. If she'd used her own natural voice for the male parts that would be fine, but she didn't, she used this very particular imitation of a male voice (with a particular accent) for Every. Single. Character. If there was more than one male character in a scene it was honestly hard to tell who was saying what. I realise that reading the lines of someone of the opposite gender can be difficult. I don't need or expect a female narrator's male characters to sound convincingly male, or a male narrator's female characters to sound convincingly female. (For many performers, it's honestly better if they don't even try, since some male narrators will do screechy falsettos, and some female narrators will do bass-heavy swagger). I want voices that sound convincingly human, not convincingly gendered. As long as they bring the same intonation, variety and emotion to the opposite-gender characters as they do with same-gender characters, I'm happy.
Briar Rose wrote: "One thing that really bothers me is when a narrator only has one voice for the other gender. I was reading a book recently where the female reader had many different voices or intonation styles to ..."I hadn't noticed this as much until you mentioned it, but it is one of the things that's really bugging me about the latest Jane Whitefield novel I'm listening to, The Face-Changers. The narrator is a woman & fine for Jane, but her male voice is driving me nuts. It's also difficult to hear at times while her female voices are easy.
My pet pet peeve that will take me right out of a story's atmosphere is the mispronunciation of common words. If you don't know for sure how to pronounce it (and I am not talking potAto potAHto) you should take a break and ask. KNOW what you are reading. It really is distracting!
Jim wrote: "Bruce wrote: "As a producer / sound editor I've worked with about a dozen different narrators with all different levels of experience. So here's some thoughts..."Thanks! That was incredibly inter..."
Bruce wrote: "As a producer / sound editor I've worked with about a dozen different narrators with all different levels of experience. So here's some thoughts...
1) Breathing - don't open your mouth on the in-b..."
Well as one who reads with the audio I am discussed with many who pervert the text. North becomes south, right turn becomes left, Sam becomes Sue, 3 becomes 4, I've fell like they've stolen my money !
I have a question (I am a narrator). How do people feel about sound FX and music added to an audiobook? Do they add to the overall atmosphere, or are they distracting? For example, His Dark Materials audiobooks have music from a full orchestra, and I personally think it's amazing and really adds a lot of feeling. But I've heard some listeners don't like sound. For me, I only add music to the credits, and FX very rarely, and only if I believe they are warranted. Thanks.
I guess there's a fine line between "audiobook" which is a narration by one or more voiceovers, and "radio drama" which DOES have sounds FX and music? Thoughts would be appreciated.
In unabridged audiobooks I don't like music or sound effects once the reading has begun. Sometimes they may work, but so rarely that I'd rather have none than take the risk of cheesy additions.Radio plays can be distinguished from unabridged audiobooks by the very nature of the production... condensed from another work, most text other than dialogue removed, multiple narrators, and effects and mood music. It's a performance of a play, even if condensed from a book. If the original source material is rendered word for word and not originally characterized as a play, then it's an audiobook--even if cheesy sound effects are added.
Anna wrote: "I have a question (I am a narrator). How do people feel about sound FX and music added to an audiobook? Do they add to the overall atmosphere, or are they distracting? For example, His Dark Materia..."If done well and doesn't interfere with the text it's fine; music lead-ins can be very effective. The radio dramas are great as long as if it says unabridged, it really is.
I agree pretty much with Jeanie. Music is OK with a play, generally not with a straight read. It can be OK as a lead-in to chapter breaks, but then it should be the same or of a lower volume than the text & also be used for other section breaks. All too often neither is true. Sound effects generally work even less in a straight read for me unless they're very short & just for chapter/section breaks. If I had a choice, I'd say leave music & sound effects out of straight read. It doesn't add much & usually detracts. I recall one book that used a water drip for chapter breaks. That was very good & provided a clear cue for the change which was otherwise unmarked since there were no chapter numbers or titles.
They did nothing for section breaks, though. These were shorter which usually seems to be the case. I don't understand it. Could you explain the reasoning, Anna or any other narrator reading here? It's a logical break on the page & often means changing the point of view. Usually the narrator is several sentences into the new section before I realize it's a new section & then my mind has to scramble to catch up. Often enough, the pause is actually shorter than that between some paragraphs, so I wonder if it isn't something the sound engineer did. If so, they should be spanked.
I think it's a question of personal taste whether you like sound effects, music, etc. I don't like them, but I'm also not a fan of the "just read the words without interpretation" school. It helps if the audiobook is clearly labeled as to what kind of experience it is, so listeners can choose what they like.
Re: mispronounced words. YES.This is very irritating, and as Joyce says, it takes you right out of the immersion. I know it's extra effort, and time is money, but it's a big deal.
Another comment along the same lines is character names. If you're narrating a series, and it's been a few years since the last installment, please listen back to the last recording to refresh your memory about how you pronounced characters' names.
Someone mentioned music, and I think music, when done well, can be an amazing enhancement to the audiobook. The edition of Insomnia read by Eli Wallach is an example of it done right, in my opinion. However, there is a real possibility of the music making it harder to distinguish the narrator's voice - even if the music is low in volume. So you have to test it with a few listeners to determine whether it's too distracting.
Lastly, the volume of the narrators voice should stay within a normal speaking range unless really necessary. If a character is yelling or whispering, fine, but don't alter the volume too much just for dramatic effect. The reason is that if the listener is in a place with ambient noise - say, driving in the car, or hiking, the low volume words will be drowned out, and turning up the volume to hear them makes the normal speaking parts uncomfortably loud.
One example of this problem was a narrator who had a tendency to fade out at the ends of sentences, for dramatic effect. I couldn't listen to that narrator in that car as a result.
Definitely pronunciations of names & places. I listened to The Thorn Birds by Colleen McCullough a book set in Australia by an Australian author & the narrator mispronounced the names of some of our native birds & one of our main cities.
Anna wrote: "I guess there's a fine line between "audiobook" which is a narration by one or more voiceovers, and "radio drama" which DOES have sounds FX and music? Thoughts would be appreciated."Good topic.
I'm not sure the line is fine, they are two completely different productions. For myself, I prefer just a single narrator to read a novel. However, if I were to listen to a radio drama then I would expect the experience to be like listening to a play.
Derrick wrote: "Steelwhisper - Can you provide some examples for me/us of audiobooks where the performance of the text makes it difficult for the hearing-impaired to understand?When the perform v. just read deba..."
You've summed it up in a nutshell. Overacting is bad, awful and intolerable
Jim wrote: "I agree pretty much with Jeanie. Music is OK with a play, generally not with a straight read. It can be OK as a lead-in to chapter breaks, but then it should be the same or of a lower volume than t..."As to music, sound effects, etc. -- I stay away from it all in my productions. For one thing, I don't have the technical chops or the rights to anything to use so I suppose it's not really an option for me anyway - but even if I could, I generally wouldn't. I'm a young man with keen ears and I still have trouble following narrations when there's music in the "background." Sound effects are fine in a radio drama or similar production where the script calls for them - adding them in to a read title is just...weird and not right to me.
As to section breaks -- what I generally do in my recordings is add a significant pause, usually 2.5 seconds in length. This is longer than any dramatic or natural pauses elsewhere in the narration, but hopefully not so long that the listener freaks out/thinks the audiobook stopped working. I basically learned that from listening to other audiobooks. For chapters I've always used chapter headings...I've yet to do a book that didn't at least have a number at the head of the chapter.
Kristie wrote: "Mispronunciations of names or city names. For example, in a book that took place in North Dakota, the narrator kept referring to the capital of South Dakota (Pierre) as pee-AIR (the French pronunci..."This is a frustration for narrators who must do their own research, Kristie. It's hard enough to search for geographical references, industry acronyms, foreign words, etc. But when we don't have any way of KNOWING that a name has a regional pronunciation, like Pierre, it really stings. I narrated a book that contained three different towns named "Minot," and they each had their OWN pronunciation! If the author hadn't included that information within the text, I would have had to research them myself. Sometimes I call a local library; once I called the Nigerian Embassy in NYC!
Rosemary wrote: "This is a frustration for narrators who must do their own research, Kristie. It's hard enough to search for geographical references, industry acronyms, foreign words, etc. But when we don't have any way of KNOWING that a name has a regional pronunciation, like Pierre, it really stings. I narrated a book that contained three different towns named "Minot," and they each had their OWN pronunciation! If the author hadn't included that information within the text, I would have had to research them myself. Sometimes I call a local library; once I called the Nigerian Embassy in NYC!"Is it typical for narrators to be left doing their own research on pronunciations? I've often wondered about the direction (or lack thereof) narrators are given.
What a great resource for narrators. We really take to heart-and benefit greatly from!- honest critique.A few responses: it is very rare to find a narrator (and very expensive!) who can do every accent needed perfectly, in exactly the right regional dialect. Since most of us can't a local will recognize the errors. But most of the time we merely try to "suggest" the accent; just as it is pretty impossible for a female narrator to actually sound like a man (and some go way over the top trying to be deep, raspy, whatever and it turns into a character voice rather than a person...I know...I did that in my first few books!)
Most publishers, and even ACX, have their own specs as far as how much space between chapter titles and text, and between chapter credits, etc.s and we as narrators/producers have to adhere to these specs.
We are usually hired for our "signature narrator voice" which is distinctive and recognizable to our listeners. So the negative comments about a narrator sounding the same in different non-series books is possibly misunderstood. It's kind of expected of us!
And one last comment about contractions and non-precise diction...with a blue-collar character from the deep South, for instance, it would be jarring to have him pronounce every "ing" ending or not slightly contract common word combinations, so look at the character first and then decide whether it is believable as such.
Our books are always proofed, whether by the author, the publisher, a director, a QC team before being published. Many of our directors and publishers do research for us on pronunciations, styles, accents, but even if we do our own, it should be caught by the final proofers. Most of us do hours of research before we start narrating and if an author intends a non-standard pronunciation, it behooves them to tell us prior to beginning a narration.
This isn't really a narration problem, but the book I am listening to now, The Girl You Left Behind, has crazy changes in volume. Most of it is normal volume, and then the character will yell or something and the narrator will do that as well. Yikes. You don't have to blow out someone's eardrums to get your point across. If the story says there is "a deafening roar," no one really expects that to happen on the audio.
Dave wrote: "This isn't really a narration problem, but the book I am listening to now, The Girl You Left Behind, has crazy changes in volume. Most of it is normal volume, and then the character..."I noticed that in a book narrated by Harlan Ellison. I mentioned it to the production company & they were surprised. I listened to the second in the series - all else the same - & the volume was fine. Ellison still did his whoops & whispers, but the sound was very well equalized. I wonder if it was just the file? I asked, but never got an answer. Anyone else know?
Janny wrote: "Here's a look from two sides, because we listen to a lot of audio books of every genre.The things that mattered most:
When a narrator suits the book, and they can do voices of both genders with ..."
You sound like my dream author! I love it when an author gives me notes on pronunciations, unusual names and places, and character differentiations! Saves me a lot of research time and endears you to most narrators! :-)
Pam Almand
Audiobooks
Books mentioned in this topic
The Girl You Left Behind (other topics)The Girl You Left Behind (other topics)
The Face-Changers (other topics)
Happy Accidents: A Memoir (other topics)
Bossypants (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Joe Hempel (other topics)James Clavell (other topics)
MaryJanice Davidson (other topics)
Nancy Wu (other topics)
Rob Inglis (other topics)
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Shoshana wrote: "Characters can be very difficult, and, I have found that each narrator has his/her own style. Being too dramatic can also be a trap, unless you have strong theatrical experience. Really great narra..."
I'm going to have to listen to more of Scott Brick. His name frequently comes up as one of the best.
I would never think of doing a falsetto for a woman character. I don't know how anyone thought that doing so wouldn't sound comical and silly.
Someone else narrated one of my books and he made the women sound small, demure, and weak. I wondered if he'd ever spoken to a female before. I had to coach him and point out that the women he was making sound like babies were kick-ass, heroic, strong characters. So not only did it sound ridiculous, it was as if he had no concept of what he was reading. I chose the guy because he had a great-sounding voice, but unfortunately, he had zero acting skills.
I guess I can record it myself in six years when the contract runs out. :(