Support for Indie Authors discussion
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PIRACY - What's In It For You
V.M. wrote: "Update: Here are some additional tips on how to handle the situation!http://badredheadmedia.com/2014/07/09..."
Thank you! =D
When I google my books, I see several results that go back to what appears to be Google. The site begins with https://www.google.com/fusiontables/D.......Does anybody know what that is? Maybe Googledocs?
I also found a search result that led to somebody's wordpress account.
Mod
Fortunately, it is run by Google, so shutting them down is easy and happens really quick once you submit a complaint to Google Service. I've done it... well... too many times...
Mod
http://www.whoishostingthis.com/
It allows you to find out who is web hosting the pirate sites where your book is. That way you can go over their heads and send the take down notice directly to the web host provider instead.
This allows you to avoid all those sketchy links on the sketchy websites! Website providers need easier to find links for reporting though... it is a bit of a nightmare depending on the host.
It seems that you're all ignoring the real piracy sites. Those that aren't hidden behind a paywall, that don't require sign up. Torrent sites. Anyway, I have a much different take on piracy. 95% of the people who get your books through this method will *never* read them, and they definitely would not *ever* pay any money for it. The other 5% will read it. Some of them will even review it, believe it or not! Some of them will like it enough that they will BUY your other books. Generally, this group wouldn't have paid for your book either, unless it was offered free on "legitimate" distribution channels.
So, in all honesty, you're not losing anything here. Yes, it sucks to see your hard work being given away for free, but those are sales that will never happen anyway.
So, I guess what I'm getting at is this, would you rather spend your time writing your next book and get the sales you WILL get or would you rather spend your precious writing time policing every download site on the 'net?
I agree with Courtney. It's a losing battle, and one that's barely worth fighting. I hate lost sales, but if those sites lead to some sales, all the better. Or even reviews, for that matter.
Courtney wrote: "It seems that you're all ignoring the real piracy sites. Those that aren't hidden behind a paywall, that don't require sign up. Torrent sites. Anyway, I have a much different take on piracy. 95% o..."
I have a twist on a twist here...and a completely different view from what's been talked about.
Now I'm not saying piracy is right, because it's not--we all agree on that, but I conducted a personal experiment on myself and took the first 2 books in my series a couple years ago and signed up to a Torrent site and uploaded MY OWN BOOKS under fictitious name (hey, I'm a fiction writer, so why not, eh?).
What i wanted to know was if that would spark any interest.
Crazy, I know, but think about this--I like to think *most* people are honest at heart. I don't ever have DRM on my books and when I sell novels from my site, I give 3 versions (epub, mobi, pdf) of all works....then I tell readers to give the other two away to friends.
Back to Piracy: I had a LOT of people contact me through the forum, asking if I had access to any of the other books in the series...because, and I quote, "they rock".
I told them 'no, sorry,' and you know what? My books actually had a spike in sales. No, it wasn't a lot, but my point is, the whole piracy thing, IMO, is a lot like publicity...good or bad, it's still publicity and we can use it.
Also, I can't remember who does this--as it's been a while since I saw it on a website--but there are Indie Authors who just say, on their own websites, "If you already own a copy and need to pay for it, you can do it here..." and people DO.
So, just another perspective.
All joy and happiness in my book (grin).
Jaime wrote: "Also, I can't remember who does this--as it's been a while since I saw it on a website--but there are Indie Authors who just say, on their own websites, "If you already own a copy and need to pay for it, you can do it here..." and people DO."I remember now...it's Hugh Howey ( http://www.hughhowey.com/books/ ) at the bottom of the page:
"Already Read It? Donate Here."
Ellen wrote: "Last year when I just published my novel through CreateSpace and put it on the amazon market I was curious after a few weeks to see if it popped up on a google search. All of a sudden I was linked ..."Wow, I can't believe people can have the audacity to do something like this!
We should all not be surprised. It is the normal course of business. They are indirectly buying from you and selling it on. That is how all businesses work. There are many people who do not carry stock neither do they manufacture anything.
They advertise your product in their websites, when they have a buyer, they buy from you and ask you to deliver to the buyer. This is the business model Amazon uses except that Amazon sell at the price you set. It is the same business model Ebay uses.
My books have been advertised in sites without my knowledge. When they have a buyer, they sell it on at a profit.
Tickets for sports are sold all over the world like this. It is legitimate business model.
Anyone ever heard of this site? http://obewgobol.ru/mybov.pdfThey say that they have my book, but I am too afraid to click further. Even my tech husband said "I wouldn't enter your info."
Can I request a takedown for this site? They say it is my book, they even list me as the author. But they don't have my cover and without actually opening it, I don't know that it is my book. Part of me wonders if I should do anything, but it is showing 2000 downloads... That's a lot of money :(
I wouldn't open it! I'm not even going to click on your link. But Googling it will give you useful info, I suspect. I'd also take the 2,000 downloads with a pinch of salt. Even if it were true, those people probably would not have bought your book.I'll leave it to those who know more to answer the takedown question.
Anna, Thanks, that was kind of where my husband and I were sitting yesterday when we were looking at it.
I went and did a search, and fortunately no shady sites show up on the first three pages. I guess I have been doing such a great job with my social media and blog marketing that I am in the clear ;)
We have decided not to pursue a take down request, given that it doesn't seem ranked very high on Google pages. Weird that it came up as a Google Alert, though.
Heidi wrote: "Anyone ever heard of this site? http://obewgobol.ru/mybov.pdfThey say that they have my book, but I am too afraid to click further. Even my tech husband said "I wouldn't enter your info."
Can I..."
I have had google alert send me alerts for my book. One of them was the strangest thing. It was a page talking about my book. Offering it free, and telling us how many times it had been downloaded etc. The funny thing is that every time I would refresh the page another title would replace mine. :P
Most of these things (Not the Ebay one but piracy websites) are just faked to make you go there and maybe try to get your credit card or something...
Courtney wrote: "It seems that you're all ignoring the real piracy sites. Those that aren't hidden behind a paywall, that don't require sign up. Torrent sites. Anyway, I have a much different take on piracy. 95% o..."
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My book appeared on piracy sites less than two weeks after publication - the last time I looked it had been downloaded a couple of thousand times. I must say I have to agree with Courtney here. I guess if I try to take on these people it will be like playing 'whackamole' therefore I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
Also, keep in mind that these download counters on pirate sites are fake.Nobody will click on a book with 3 downloads, so the counter will ALWAYS say 2,165 or 5,759 or whatever. It's not true. Ever.
Yes it might be meant to tempt people who want a free book to go to the site and then have some JavaScript package or other dodgy malware installed on their machine to then rip off their financial details etc. Wouldn't need to have copies of any book, just pretend to have them.
One scam my computer has often fallen prey to on sites like these is a virus that instantly locks up your browser. You can't delete it, and all you can see is an announcement telling you that a virus has been detected in your computer. Sometimes it's accompanied by a Darth Vader-like voice confirming it. They give you a number to call, and no doubt they'll demand money to "clean up" your computer.
I keep my browser enclosed in an app called Sandboxie, and when something like this happens it's just a simple procedure of "emptying the sandbox," and it all goes away. I suppose you could try to reboot, but I'm not sure that would get rid of it. It might require a complete reformatting. It's best to stay off these sites unless you have a very good anti-virus protection. In any case, you should never call that number. I have anti-virus, but it never catches this particular scam.
I keep my browser enclosed in an app called Sandboxie, and when something like this happens it's just a simple procedure of "emptying the sandbox," and it all goes away. I suppose you could try to reboot, but I'm not sure that would get rid of it. It might require a complete reformatting. It's best to stay off these sites unless you have a very good anti-virus protection. In any case, you should never call that number. I have anti-virus, but it never catches this particular scam.
I have started a campaign to put all of these PIRATES out of business. I am exposing their names on Twitter. I have also created some special artwork for them.I wonder if there could be a class action lawsuit can be launched against one of these sites. I'm game if anyone else is.
https://twitter.com/RaquelZepFitz/sta...
In all honesty, Raquel, as has been mentioned above, most of these sites exist to lure YOU into giving your information. A class action lawsuit will only work if you have an actual name to sue. You're better off sending a cease and desist letter if you suspect actual piracy. For the phishing sites, our mod Riley has found a chrome extension called Blasty. You can use it to remove these sites from Google searches when people look for your book. Calling them out on Twitter probably won't do a whole lot.
You don't think those names are acquirable????? Okay. I am a paralegal and have over twenty years of civil litigation experience. Maybe you know something I don't. I just know that one of those sites seems to have thousand of books. I doubt that all or any of these authors gave their permission. Oddly enough, one of those sites removed my book after my twitter post. This is after I'd written them the cease and desist in September.
thanks for your advice.
Hi Raquel,The names may be acquirable, but the thing about pirates is they usually hide, very well, behind VPNs, proxies, and other programs that work to keep their identity from you. The Feds have had a hard time with tracking 'owners' of even some of the biggest sites, and even then many true pirate sites are in another country so our jurisdiction is out the window. When they are successful in taking out leaders, new ones step into place.
If something has been pirated, nothing will stop it because the pirate community is large and crafty. The music and movie industry has been trying to tackle pirating for many, many years now and pirating has just become stronger. For us authors to try and go up against a community that is dead set on pirating things, we really don't have much hope. Yes, this sounds awful and disheartening, but it's a reality we have to live with. Our efforts would be better spent pushing forward and writing for the people who want to pick up our work honestly.
Don't let pirates get to you. There are a lot of honest people in the world when it comes to legally obtaining copyrighted works. We're a consumer society and many people spend their hard earned money on products instead of steal or pirate.
Mod
The only way to combat pirates is to make ebooks harder to copy. There is scarce little we can do about that since it is really more of a flaw of the file type than anything else. It is too easy to copy.
Even then, the tightest of tight ebook files will still get the fake spam clickbait sites targeting you, the author. That is really what happens more to us than actual pirating. Don't click that crap!
I read that the best way to check for actual pirating is to search for an entire paragraph of your book and see if that shows results.
C.B. wrote: "I read that the best way to check for actual pirating is to search for an entire paragraph of your book and see if that shows results. "Oooh! Clever!
This thread has been fascinating. I had another situation that I'm not actually sure if it was piracy or not. My books are on Amazon, and I keep finding people who slightly undercut me. I contacted one of the sellers and they said they were getting the copies from Ingram, and that's why they could undercut the prices I had set. This would be almost like piracy if I didn't get the royalties, but I honestly don't know if I would actually see the royalties or not. Does anyone have experience with this?
(On the matter of piracy, I'm coming down on the side of free downloads actually being somewhat like publicity, because people wouldn't have bought my books anyway.)
Those sellers are legitimate and not pirating. I'll use my pricing and book size as an example for the numbers here.I was incorrect in my numbers, I took the wrong side of the percentage when calculating. Correction is:
So let's say you list your book for $14.99. That's the retail price you want to get out of it. But if you list it as the industry standard discount for stores of 55%. That means they're getting your copies for $6.75 (because it's been discounted 55%).
Because they purchased it for $6.75 instead of $14.99, your cut is $6.75 - Cost to print a copy. Ingram states that selling 1 of my books at the 55% discount will giving me $0.13 as my cut.
However, those sellers don't order your stock until they sell one, even though those sellers say "in stock". They're just a virtual middleman/woman.
Interesting. So if they did sell one, I'd get a bit from it probably a couple of months later. Cool, thanks for the clarification!
Updated my post. I was incorrect in my original math.
Sadly this isn't a problem that will go away anytime soon. Piracy sites will just keep popping up. There are too many people who don't think downloading your book for free is wrong, and others who simply don't care. There are even some people who argue that piracy helps authors because it gives their books more exposure. The problem is that the author should have control over what kind of exposure their book gets. It's definitely a loosing battle, but I disagree that it's one we shouldn't fight. I give away my books for free all the time, but I choose to do that. Letting other people give your book away for free isn't right. (And it's not the same as re-selling a book they bought.)
If you find your book on a pirated site you can make the site take it down by filing a DMCA complaint. (I've done this before so if anyone wants, you can DM me and I'll explain more). I usually do a google search for my book titles or search a paragraph from my books every so often to see if anyone has it out there for free.
Justin wrote: "For the most part I think piracy is bad however can be embraced as long as the person pirating it is getting nothing our of it. To me there's two types of book pirating:1.The ones who put your bo..."
I don't understand why you think it should ever be embraced? Just because the pirate isn't making money off a book that isn't theirs doesn't make it okay. If I wanted my book to be given out for free I would post it on a pirating site myself. Even if they "set the prices so high that you know there's no way they are making squat off your book" they're still benefiting from something that isn't theirs.
Rohvannyn wrote: "This thread has been fascinating. I had another situation that I'm not actually sure if it was piracy or not. My books are on Amazon, and I keep finding people who slightly undercut me. I contacted..."This is interesting. I assume you use Createspace? I panicked when the resellers poppd up, even though I hadn't sold a paperback copy yet. After an hour of annoyance at the idea that I could be being undercut myself, I came to the same conclusion that Thomas made. Actually--I'm really glad to see Thomas' comment because it confirms my suspicions.
Those resellers appeared the same day I published on Ingram.
I actually think this is a good thing. Resellers give the feel that your book isn't just an Amazon/Createspace book. It also gives credence to the possibility that your book is popular enough that bookstores are shelfing it--even if they haven't actually stocked it yet. Resellers from Ingram would have a tough time pricing your books cheaper than you without taking a loss.
Lauryn wrote: "Justin wrote: "For the most part I think piracy is bad however can be embraced as long as the person pirating it is getting nothing our of it. To me there's two types of book pirating:1.The ones ..."
I don't think it should be embraced but when you can't always fight it sometimes you have to learn to work with it. It's something the entertainment industry has had to learn to deal with and authors have to as well. In other words, I think "embrace" is the wrong word. I'd go with "cope" or "adapt."
But I agree that there are two types of pirating. Other people reproducing and selling your work is not okay.
There can be upsides to pirating, only in the sense that it gives your work exposure. People might get a book for free, but it doesn't erase the possibility of the author profiting from it. For example, a person might decide they love your book so much, they buy the book or other books later even though they got it for free because they want the real copy and they want to support you. They might become a fan and follow your works over time, go to your signings, buy related merchandise. They might spread the word about you.
In the mean time, take precautions necessary to avoid the problem.
Plagiarism to me is MUCH worse. There is no forgiveness for that as there is no tangible benefit.
I've self-published loads of ebooks on Amazon and always tick the box saying I hold full publishing rights to the content. Yesterday I was surprised to get an email message - 'information needed about your KDP book' - asking me to verify that I am indeed the author of a particular title because they have found similar material elsewhere on the web. I searched myself and found that some phrases I'd used were in wikipedia, because of the subject matter. I also found the whole work was advertised on a site called FictionDB so I contacted them and they assured me they were not selling pirate copies. I hope Amazon will respond to my request for more specific information, but hope this will not be a precedent for Amazon querying authorship of my other books. So far they have only flagged up this one book.
I have found my books on thousands of pirate sites. I now use Blasty. You enter your book information, and it looks on the web and lets you know when it finds a site with your books available for free.
I have 'blasted' lots of sites. My books have been taken down from something like 6,500 sites. I have seen an increase in sales since I started keeping a better eye on pirate sites.
Basically, when you confirm that it's your book on the pirate website, Google is notified that your book is being pirated and the site is either closed down, or your book is taken off of it.
It only takes a few minutes a week. I'm not sure if there is a cost involved now, I signed up while it was still free.
A lot of these book pirating sites, which I have found a few of mine on, don't actually have a copy of your book. They download meta data and say they do and end up infecting people with malware and trojans
Sheila wrote: "I have found my books on thousands of pirate sites. I now use Blasty. You enter your book information, and it looks on the web and lets you know when it finds a site with your books available for..."
Thanks! I was just asking the question elsewhere and now I see that you have a solution. This thread was started two years ago when the internet was not at fast to have such pirates. Now it's important to keep an eye out.
Guys, I would recommend reading the whole thread before posting. The topic of what pirate sites actually are has come up at least twenty times already. Yes, most are phishing attempts that target you as much as readers, so proceed with caution. Do not assume you are safe to visit any of these sites without tight security on your computer.
Blasty.com worked well for me. It was recommended to me by another author. You just find them and 'Blast' them. They flag them with Google
Christina wrote: "Guys, I would recommend reading the whole thread before posting. The topic of what pirate sites actually are has come up at least twenty times already. Yes, most are phishing attempts that target y..."That's the beauty of Blasty. You don't really have to visit the pirate site. Your home screen on Blasty shows the information they think applies to you. Virtually all the time, you can see without ever leaving the Blasty website -- the name of your book and the fact that it is a free download or something else that has been flagged.
If you do not recognize the site (I do not have any free books so it's easy for me) you can Blast it from your homepage.
Thanks, I discovered them in a Google search. I will not click on their link. Is there any point to filing a copyright infringement claim with Amazon?
Mod
Not really, they don't have the book so it really isn't a copyright claim.
I had luck at the beginning using a website that told me what their website hosting services were, then going above their heads and telling the host it was a scam page full of viruses. That normally got them taken down pretty quick.
Honestly though, I gave up on it. A new one will be back as soon as the old one is gone. It hurts emotionally.
There are services that do this for you as well. I am sure they are in this thread already.
C.B. wrote: "Stephen wrote: "Thanks, I discovered them in a Google search. I will not click on their link. Is there any point to filing a copyright infringement claim with Amazon?"Not really, they don't have ..."
I signed up for Blasty and enrolled in their $9.99 "quick access" option (one-time fee for beta service; one month free after app comes out of beta) because it looked very efficient. I was impressed that in short order, the site administrator sent me a personal note thanking me and asking why I had chosen to pay for Blasty's premium service. Blasty, still in beta, is otherwise free.
Ian wrote: "Mysti wrote: "Pirating is a sad fact of the digital publishing business. You can issue DCMA takedown notices. It may work. You can report pirate videos on YouTube. They may take them down. But they..."Even offering it fraudulently is qualified as piracy in that they are illegally using your name, likeness and copyrighted material without your consent to illegally obtain personal information on others for profit and this makes it a double crime because their intentional selling of the personal information a person gives them is a clear violation of that person's privacy rights and it is as if they are putting your face on the front of their crime and THAT my dear friends, is just plain BAD for your business.
Charles wrote: "I wish I had a basement to write in. :( That would be the perfect atmosphere for me. Scratch that, I need a secret lair somewhere in the bowels of a cave deep beneath the earth.
In the spirit of..."
As a complete unknown who can't EVEN afford cottage cheese, I find that piracy has not deigned me unworthy of its filthy grasp...
So far 13 sites have posted my stories in those pirated pay-to-read sites mentioned in other places in this topic thread.
This is the point where some place we need to locate an attorney willing to work on this and shut this down with the help of the FBI's IC3 internet crimes department.I have repeatedly reported about a dozen floating dynamic and burnable subdomains all leading to or referencing to tzarmedia in the past few years so that I now feel it necessary every few months to do another search to root out all of the new piracy links.
I am pretty certain that not a single title in their list is not pirated, and as such, it is a sore grievance that the FBI has not forthwith completely shut them down and sent them to prison.
That said, it is going to take a comprehensive movement of authors together to make anything happen.
If need be I can locate one [or more] of the hundreds of IP attorneys in my contact list and initiate discussions for the group.
I don't see how you all are checking for your books. How are you doing it? I don't see a Search box in which to type the name of my books.
Looks like they've been at it a while too, it says my book has been downloaded over five-thousand times. =(