Robert E. Howard Readers discussion
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I re-read "Kid Galahad." It was a pretty good story, with a rip-roaring fight, but overall not much different than a Steve Costigan story. It's neat that this character has a steady girlfriend, which Steve did not have, but otherwise, this could have been a Costigan story. Kid's manager leaves town and tells him to stay out of trouble, Kid Allison gets into trouble and into a fight, this upsets his girlfriend, but all is well at the end.The story is also available in The Second Book of Robert E. Howard and Boxing Stories.
Read "College Socks," a rewrite of the Steve Costigan story, "A Student of Sockology" from Fists of Iron: Round 2. It's been a long while since I read the Costigan version, but in glancing over it, it doesn't seem much changed. A fun story - Kid Allison (or Costigan for the first version) is recruited to teach a football player a lesson, for this college player wants to quit the team and be a prize fighter, and his professor and coach don't want him to do so. I did notice REH added one line to the very end of this story that made it a bit better than the original.I don't know that this story, with Kid Allison as the star, has been in any other collections.
Re-read "The Wildcat and the Star." Despite a fairly contrived mistaken identity subplot concerning Kid Allison's girlfriend and a movie star, the story is a fun one to read, with a descriptive (as usual) battle between Kid Allison and a former boxer turned movie star. The fight was on camera and the director wanted it to look real. Not REH's finest tale by any means, though. It was formulaic - and REH even noted the formula - Kid's manager leaves town, tells Kid Allison to stay out of trouble and out of fights because he's trying to promote him, Kid Allison screws up things with girlfriend, gets into trouble and a fight, fixes things with girlfriend, manager comes back but can't be mad because Kid Allison's trouble actually made the news and made promoting him easier. Basically, the same formula from the past few stories.This story was previously published in The Last of the Trunk.
Read (or Re-read) "Fighting Nerves." This is the first time I've read this as a Kid Allison story, but the story also appears as a Jim O'Donnel story in The Last of the Trunk (and later in this very volume). Still follows the formula described above, and adds the formula of the boxer training another boxer ("The Man with the Mystery Mitts" used this plot, too), mixed with "Iron Men" and a few others, to create a enjoyable tale. Not his best tale, but certainly it isn't among his worst either. This story didn't sell, and I'm not sure why. I think it was better than the Kid Allison's that did sell.This is this tale's first appearance as a Kid Allison story, and it works well as a Kid Allison tale because it follows the formula for a Kid Allison tale. With the last of the complete Kid Allison stories, I feel like I am finally getting to know the character and recognize what makes him different than Costigan or some of the others. Too bad this series didn't take off.
Read (or Re-read) "The House of Peril." This is the first time I read it as originally intended, as the editor of the magazine that first printed it changed it into a Steve Costigan story without REH's permission and re-titled it as "Blow the Chinks Down." The editor also added a line referencing Steve's dog.Instead of Steve Costigan, this story was intended to star Mike Dorgan and co-star Bill McGlory. It was a fun little romp, where Dorgan and McGlory unintentionally defeat a jewel-stealing gang, and outwit the detectives looking to trap the gang and recover the jewel. It had some humor and some fighting, and clearly is not in the style of Costigan, although there are similarities.
The edited version can be found in The Complete Action Stories.
Vincent wrote: "Just finished reading "The Man with the Mystery Mitts." As the introductory essay said, it is a bit contrived, but it worked pretty well. Kid Allison seems a bit different than Steve Costigan in ..."I just read this story as well. I didn't want you to be reading and commenting on this by yourself so I am joining you. I've never read this one before. Very different feeling to it than the Steve Costigan tales. In the past I've read almost all of the Costigan and Dennis Dorgan stories and I enjoyed this precisely for the slightly more serious tone. It was different having Kid Allison get on the managing end of a fighter. It was a good yarn even though I pretty much figured out the ending less half-way through the story. Looking forward to reading on.
Thanks for joining in on the read, Michael! I really liked Kid Allison just because it was different than the Costigans. I just finished "One Shanghai Night," which in its published version, "Dark Shanghai," the editors changed it (without asking REH) to a Costigan story. This version starred Mike Dorgan and co-star Bill McGlory again. It was an okay story, with a predictable "twist," but it isn't a Steve Costigan story. It has fisticuffs, but it isn't a boxing match. It really lacks the tone of a Costigan story. Why the editor thought changing the name would work, I don't know.
Anyway, Mike Dorgan and Bill McGlory are more like friends in this one than in previous tales starring them. They are tasked by a mutual enemy to rescue a girl from the Chinese, which they do. And then mayhem ensues. A little contrived in the coincidence hinging on one of Bill's seemingly random actions, but the story had some action. Really, not one of REH's best, though.
The edited version is available in The Complete Action Stories, but I really recommend reading the story in this book as it truly is not a Steve Costigan story at all, not in tone, plot, or characterization.
I just read "College Socks" last night. As mentioned, Kid Allison is very different from the Costigans. He is not so much the "Unreliable Narrator" that makes the Costigan stories so humorous. These have humor but also a slightly more serious tone to them. But definitely not dark at all. Howard has a way with the language of the characters. It's like watching an old movie from the 1930s-40s. I can see someone like Victor McLagen as Kid Allison with maybe supporting actors like Mike Mazurki, William Bendix, Clifton Webb (as the professor). Priscilla Lane in other roles in these stories. As with all Howard's stuff, the stories pull you in within the first paragraph. Never a slow start which made him such a great short story writer.
The Unreliable Narrator. Well said, Michael. That is a huge distinction between the two characters. Kid Allison is definitely not as over-the-top as Steve Costigan, and definitely more reliable as a narrator. Steve sounds like he is telling tall tales about himself, Kid Allison sounds like he is just telling true anecdotes.BTW, great actor choices. Nailed it.
Thanks. I read "Wildcat and the Star" last night. I want to read one story per night. You said it all in your review. Formulaic but still a good read.
I read "Fightin' Nerves" last night. This is the first time I have ever read this story in any version. Vincent, you nail it pretty well with your review. I found Kid Allison to be a little more humorous in this story because of his incorrect word usage like "delirious trimmings" when He describes an alcoholic experiencing "delirium tremens". There were several examples of this throughout the story. The stories are good but formulaic so it is not hard to see where the story is going but it's still a fun ride. Boxing was huge sport back when REH was writing. It was a huge part of Howard's life and I find these stories indispensable to truly understanding him. He seemed to really know boxing and in this story of Kid Allison training Bill Wells he was able to expound on some of the finer points. I have never been a huge boxing fan but these stories are enjoyable. This was the last of the Kid Allison stories. I plan to read "House of Peril" tonight. I've read the Steve Costigan version and I am looking forward to reading this version with Mike Dorgan and Bill McGlory as Howard originally intended.
Finished reading "The Tomb of the Dragon," another Mike Dorgan and Bill McGlory story. This is one I've never read before, and this is the only appearance of this story I have in my REH collection. It was a fun little story, with some good atmosphere. Again, it had fisticuffs, but no actual boxing. Again, it hinged on coincidence and was easily figured out, but it was a fun read. Also, Michael, he used that joke again, using "deleerious trimmings" for delirium tremens.
I read three stories last night. All of the Mike Dorgan and Bill McGlory stories. All fun. It is easy to figure the stories out but fun to read because although we, as the readers, know where the story is going, our heroes are demonstrably dumb and gullible. No boxing matches in these stories per se, but lots of fisticuffs as you mention Vincent. These stories are humorous, almost hilarious at times with the jokes on words as they consistently use the incorrect word usage and are unable to always see their own shortcomings. I also reread Mark Finn's introduction and find It kind of amazing the amount of boxing related stories that REH wrote. Hopefully he will be recognized for it more as these stories get published and can reach a wider readership. As he mentions, stories by Jack London, Damon Runyon, and even Joyce Carol Oates are well known but Howard's stories are virtually unknown. As mentioned he spent a lot of time writing about it in letters (even to H P Lovecraft who wasn't interested in the sport in the least), and on the side it played a big part in his semi autobiographical novel "Post Oaks and Sand Roughs". In the novel he describes a boxing match between himself (under the pseudonym Steve Costigan) and Tevis Clyde Smith (can't remember off the top of my head which name he used). Howard was more of the slugger and Tevis was described as more athletic. They fought to a draw. Of course, REH is so widely known for his Sword and Sorcery characters, particularly Conan, that most people have no idea of what a diverse writer he really was.
Excellent points, Michael. I've read his letters, but I haven't had the chance or opportunity to read Post Oaks and Sand Roughs. I hope the REH Foundation reprints it soon.The Mike Dorgan and Bill McGlory series were fun, and for the exact reasons you indicate. Frustrating that an editor thought they could be converted to a Steve Costigan story just with a name change - the whole style of story is different. It just shows how little respect REH got even in his own lifetime at times. It's on par with the edits L. Sprague de Camp posthumously made turning non-Conan REH into non-REH Conan... and that editor had the gall to do it while REH lived!
Well, you are going to pass me up in this book (I'm reading a story in between other other novels, not a story a day), so I expect you to take lead in this discussion! :)
Re-read "The Sign of the Snake." This was published in Action Stories, but the editor, once again, changed the character to Costigan. This is the first time I read it as a McClarney story. Still a pretty good story. Predictable (all the punches were clearly telegraphed before delivery), but it was still a fun ride, which is all it was intended to be.The usual version of this story can be found in The Complete Action Stories, with the name of the character changed to Steve Costigan.
Just read "The Sign of the Snake" last night as well. I have read the Costigan version but is was a long time ago. I didn't read any of the book over the holiday as I started and finished a short novel. I want to get back to my one story a day though. I loved this story. As mentioned it was fun and predictable. REHs stuff is almost always a great read. It's fun and satisfying. Sometimes I read other authors and love the ideas presented but the delivery is not always as satisfying as Howard's prose. It's easy to understand and pulls no punches. There are no hidden meanings or social commentaries, just pure clean escapism and I find I don't ever have to reread paragraphs because I couldn't understand it the first time. Not to say that harder to read books are not good literature. They have their place but much of the time I just like to be entertained.
I just read "The Fighting Fury" last night. Great story featuring a slow, lumbering, good natured Bill Buckner. This is the first time I have ever read this story although I know it is also in "The Last of the Trunk". Bill is too good natured to be a great fighter unless you get him mad. The only way to do that apparently is to hurt his dog. The only problem is if you do that you could end up incapacitated for life! His manager Foxy Allison has a plan because he knows Bill could be the heavy weight champion of the world! Once again it wasn't too hard to see the outcome of the story but it was grand ride.
I re-read "Fighting Nerves" last night. Actually skimmed would be a better word since I just read the story last week in the Kid Allison version. I found virtually no difference between this version and the Kid Allison version. The only real difference I saw was the name change from Kid Allison to Jim O'Donnel and different names were used for his girlfriend and manager. I did see a couple of words changed in the text but hardly noticeable. I compared parts of it while skimming. I also read or re-read "Fists of the Desert". I read this a few years ago in "Boxing Stories" published by University of Nebraska Press and also several years before that in "Iron Man". This is one of my favorite REH boxing stories. This one lacks the humor of Steve Costigan and company and is a more serious take on the sport and some of the corruption in it. The protagonist, Kirby, an iron man who is discovered and taken advantage of by an unscrupulous manager who uses him as a set-up to make easy money. Later a more honest manager takes him under his wing and great personal cost to himself to makes him into a boxer with the goal of making him a contender for the heavy weight championship. Formulaic but great stuff. This story was originally published as "Iron Jaw" in Dime Sports Magazine in 1936 and in "Iron Man".This is from a Review I read on SF Site about REH Boxing Stories which I think hits the nail on the head: "The tales in Boxing Stories are not stories of today's boxing, with boxing commissions, ring doctors, fighters called out on TKOs at the first sign of a cut or a bout of dizzyness, they're much more primal, more along the lines of Charles Bronson in Hard Times (1975) (especially the Steve Costigan stories), or, if brought up to date, in 1999's The Fight Club. These stories are neither politically correct nor do they pull any punches in terms of graphic brutality. They are, however, among Howard's most personal works and a must read for any Howard fan, for any boxing fan, for anyone who wants to see how a great storyteller weaves his magic."
I read Fists of the Revolution a couple of days ago and enjoyed it immensely. This could have made a great short comedy movie back in the day. The premise is that a fight trainer takes a job in a small fictional Banana Republic in South America training boxers who have no aptitude for the sport. Then he is put between a rock and a hard place by the current regime and the Military opposition who wants to remove the current dictator from power. He either wins a bout with one of his fighters or he faces either the loss of his job or a firing squad. In a panic he finds an American Sailor and schedules a bout between him and a mystery fighter for the opposing general who has found another American sailor to fight him...and it turns out that the fighters are mortal enemies! Parts of the story get downright slapstick as he tries to get his fighter to take a fall in order to save their lives. When he is winning the soldiers raise their rifles at the ringside and begin to aim and when his fighter is losing they lower them again. That concludes all of the complete stories. I will start tackling the Miscellanea next.
Read "The Jinx" last night. This very short story was written in the form of a letter from Kid Allison explaining the most recent trials and tribulations he encountered managing a new young fighter.
I liked the quote from the SF review. Very apt. Thanks for continuing the thread!
Thanks Vincent. I finished reading all of the Miscellanea section last night. Most were unfinished Kid Allison stories. I especially enjoyed one that featured a baseball player turned boxer named Bashful Bart. The title is "The Drawing Card". Howard details a fight between Bart and a football player both of whom lack the finer points of the boxing game while earning huge sums for their celebrity status from their activity in other sports. As the fight progresses we are treated to Kid Allison watching from the sidelines hoping to have an opportunity to fight Bart and get a bigger payday knowing he could easily beat them if they would only fight a real fighter such as himself. We never find out what happens but we know it would have been hilarious. Another title named "Tough Nut to Crack" involves Kid Allison being asked to be a set-up for an emerging fighter from South Africa. He is threatened with stopping his career and becoming a has been if he doesn't play ball. Of course he bristles at this suggestion and his honest manager, Jack Reynolds, is out of town. Unfortunately we never find out what happens but we know Kid would never have buckled under to the hoods. This is kind of a typical and formulaic boxing story showing the corruption that can be involved in the sport. I remember a great movie from 1949 named "The Set-Up" starring Robert Ryan. It is film noir movie that involves Robert Ryan throwing yet another fight to help the career of an emerging young fighter. Ryan rebels and ends up winning the fight but gets beat up by the mob. In the end he gains the respect of his wife and himself by standing up to the fight fixers. Another greater movie involving this is "On the Waterfront" from 1954. This won the best picture Oscar that year. Marlon Brando is speaking to Rod Steiger who plays his brother in the back of a cab and tells him "I coulda been a contenda" if not for his brother working with the mob who talked him into throwing a fight and tanking his career as a boxer. The movie involves Brando seeking redemption from what the corrupt Longshoremen's Union turned him into....an enforcer who tanked his career hopes and made him loath himself. This was based on a series by a journalist who uncovered the corruption, racketeering, and violence that was being done behind the scenes by the Longshoremen's Union.
I finished the book last night. I was able to read a more complete version of "Tough Nut to Crack" with Kid Clarney as our hero. In the Afterword by Patrice Rouinet (Lord of the Ring Part 4) he explains that Howard abandoned the Kid Allison version and rewrote the story with Kid Clarney. Kid Clarney fit the story better than Kid Allison as the stories featuring him normally have more humor than this story did. While the story was still unfinished we did see the end of the fight between he and the "iron man" from South Africa. Patrice also mentions some of the problems that Bob Howard said were inherent in writing these kinds of sports stories.....there is only so many dramatic stories you can tell before running out of ideas. Somehow he found ideas because while he had a bigger output early on (1929-30), he kept writing boxing stories up until his death. REH Foundation published 4 books worth of these stories. The book ends with a page and half synopsis for the Dorgan/McGlory story 'One Shanghai Night" featured earlier in the book. I rated the book 5 stars just because I loved it. Not all the stories were strong or deserve 5 stars but as mentioned above Howard prose is so poetic and visceral. It just keeps moving from the first line you know you are in good hands. No secret hidden meanings here just pulse pounding action and in some cases laugh out loud humor. He did have a way with words. I fell like his stories reach the child in me.
I agree, Victor McLagen would have made an ideal Kid Allison. REH likely would have agreed too. In a September 1929 letter to Harold Preece, Howard actually mentions the actor. He is writing about silent films, the ones he likes, along with a nice upbraiding toward the movies he dislikes: “...drooling, thin-headed toe ticklers, warbling in their soprano yap, and feather-brained flappers trying to be cute and howling vapid theme songs: hell and black damnation. Give me a rough, tough brutal story, quick action and a gang of hardboiled hairy-chested egss: George Bancroft; Matther Betz; Lionel Barrymore; VIC MACLAGEN, who once fought Jack Johnson…."
Brilliant quote find!
Just re-read "The Fighting Fury" (I originally read it in The Last of the Trunk). Michael described it well. I did note in the second and third paragraphs, REH was talking about racial purity, drifts, reversions to type, atavism, and so on (making it almost suitable for inclusion in Swords of the North). I thought it interesting he felt the first pioneers of Texas were Anglo-Saxons - and not the Spanish conquistadors (or the Indigenous population already extant in the region). He loved discussing this stuff in his letters, and his inclusion of it here highlights his passion on the subject, but also how his passion really builds up a blind spot, since the story doesn't need the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs at all (except to establish that Bill Buckner was blonde and blue-eyed).It was a pretty good story. The best thing it does is highlight the boxer's love for his dog, a theme REH hits on a lot. Mostly this story had a lot of recycled ideas and themes and doesn't really break new ground. It was a fun read, but definitely not on par with the material found in the first volume of boxing stories (Fists of Iron: Round 1).
Good points Vincent and that was a great quote O Ruairc! Victor MacLaglen was a favorite of REH's and also was a boxer before becoming an actor. He was part of John Ford's acting troup and appeared in several John Wayne movies directed by Ford. I've wanted to see one of his movies, "The Informer" since finding it in a list of movies that Howard spoke about or was known to like. I have it in my queue on Amazon and plan to watch it when I get a chance.
I just re-read "Fists of the Desert" (I originally read it in Boxing Stories and The Iron Man). A serious story about corruption in boxing, it was quite brutal in its descriptions. One thing I noted was that the manager was John Reynolds and Kid Allison's manager was Jack Reynolds. I wonder if the name "Reynolds" meant something to REH. Although there was little in the way of surprise in this story, it entertained, and I read it quickly (esp. when I compare it to my re-read of the Elric stories, which are, to my adult sensibilities, quite dull). I liked the addition of the corruption angle - the one surprise I had was the amputation of the leg of the manager. I thought that was a particularly realistic touch on the part of REH. I also liked that he took what could have been a standard Iron Man story and turned him into a real boxer.
With his love for Iron Men, I always wondered what REH would have thought of "Rocky" had he lived to see it.
Read "Fists of the Revolution." This was a new story for my collection: I don't have it in any other book. This may have been REH's final boxing story, and you can rather tell he was running out of ideas. Not one of his best, but still quite readable and enjoyable for what it was. I thought it was neat that the main character was the manager instead of the boxer. Also re-read "The Jinx." I first encountered this fragment (it's missing a couple of pages in the middle) in The Last of the Trunk. This was REH's first Kid Allison story, before he really figured out what he wanted to do with this character. Thus, no Franky Jones (the girlfriend) or his manager, Jack Reynolds. It is written in the form of a letter, as though he was thinking of differentiating Kid Allison from Steve Costigan in this manner (much like the difference between Breckinridge Elkins and Pike Bearfield). Clearly he went a different direction with Kid Allison, but it was neat seeing a glimpse of his early idea.
The thing that makes the latter story better in this volume than in "The Last of the Trunk," is that you can read it in context with what he did with the character later. I didn't really catch onto the nuances with the first presentation of the story, but in this volume, the nuances of character differences between this Kid Allison vs. the later Kid Allison was really highlighted.
Vincent wrote: "With his love for Iron Men, I always wondered what REH would have thought of "Rocky" had he lived to see it."Or a real-life fighter like Conor McGregor - the MMA champion from Ireland
Re-read "Fistic Psychology," which was interesting because it mentioned that Sailor Steve Costigan knocked out Kid Allison."The Drawing Card," as Michael said, was interesting because it featured a fight between a baseball player and a football player, but had way too many names to keep track of in the early pages for my taste. Clearly a draft.
The untitled one had a great fight scene, but the final line lacked punch because I have no idea who Jim Ebbets is or was. Couldn't even find him with a basic Google search.
Also re-read "The Drawing Card" with Kid Allison. It had a fair start.
All of these incomplete stories I read originally in The Last of the Trunk. The Clarney version of "A Tough Nut to Crack" was also in that volume, but the Kid Allison version was new to this volume.
I am going to reactivate this thread, since I am currently reading vol. 4 myself! I am just finished reading "Fighting Nerves" and I really enjoyed it. I thought it was the funniest AND the most serious Kid Allison story. The story is inspiring, and the last fight was very satisfying as we finally got to see the Kid display his boxing superiority. This, right there, is a big difference between Costigan and Allison, the first wins because he always gets up and never let's go. His determination and toughness is his best card. Kid Allison knows how to boxe and usually wins his fight without being beaten as much.
The story also had moments that really made me laugh. It also had character development, something which we couldn't see with his shorter Allison stories. The tavern brawls, which were a reason for Sport Stories to ask for a rewrite, were different and refreshing, coming close to a Breckinridge tone.
Overall, I can understand why the Kid Allison series wasn't successful. I think Howard couldn't find a consistant voice for his character. He was sometimes a Costican clone, sometimes not, but most of the time less funny. And by that time, he had a hard time coming up with new situations and would recycle ideas. "Fighting Nerves" did borrow from "The Man with the Mystery Mitts" and "The Wild Cat and the Star", but I think these ideas were more effectively used in this longer story.
I also really liked the idea of a big brutish boxer just wishing to have a hot dog stand on the beach... I can't believe this story is only available in the Fists of Iron series. I think it could have made it in Boxing Stories, from Bison Books. This book is the "Best Of" of REH boxing tales. The one book you bring with you if you are a fan of Howard's boxing output. But maybe the manuscript hadn't been discovered at the time.
That's a good point about it belonging in Boxing Stories. I think you are correct on why Kid Allison wasn't successful as a series. Glad you are joining in!
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This was a new story for me. This has not appeared in any of the collections I have. I don't think it has been in any other book collections since its 1931 magazine appearance (outside of a limited edition fanzine).