The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
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Pride and Prejudice
Pride and Prejudice
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Pride and Prejudice: Week 1
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Mrs. Bennett isn’t the brightest character (she has been compared to Catherine in Northanger Abbey, but as an adult, without the excuse of inexperience). She has a good grasp of some hard realities for women, and a sense of the ends to be pursued. Unfortunately, she is hopeless on the best means to be employed in the case at hand.
A couple of friends of mine have argued, one online, but unfortunately not accessibly (https://www.proquest.com/docview/2309...), that Mr. Bennett’s quality and interest as a father can be traced pretty straightforwardly in his children. Jane, although perhaps a disappointment, was a much-loved child who grew into a sunny and calm adult. Elizabeth was a bigger disappointment, but blossomed when he discovered and nourished her natural intelligence and sardonic wit. Mary failed to be Elizabeth, and was soon ignored, but continued to seek his approval. He washed his hands of Kitty and Lydia.
Mod
The first sentence sets the tone which we later hear from Mr Bennet and from Elizabeth. I think this is why he favors his second daughter, she thinks the most like him. Mrs. Bennet is totally oblivious to irony. Jane is too kind to think that way, Mary too abstract, and Kitty and Lydia just too silly and soldier-crazy. One of the earliest lines we have from Elizabeth is at the beginning of Chapter IV.
Jane says of Bingley, "He is just what a young man ought to be, sensible, good-humored, lively, and I never saw such happy manners!" Elizabeth replies, "He is also handsome, which a young man ought likewise to be if he possibly can. His character is therefore complete." A bit later she says, "I always speak what I think".
The social world is introduced from the very beginning in the discussion of Mr. Bennet calling upon Mr. Bingley, and the other opportunities the family might have to meet him. It is a closed community of local families. Then at the ball, there are the unspoken messages of who dances with whom, in what order, and how many times.
The first words about Mr. Darcy are that he is handsome and very rich. But soon, popular opinion, not just that of Elizabeth, who overheard his comment about her, is that he is cold and unfriendly. He doesn't dance much, doesn't laugh, doesn't chat, doesn't flirt. It's a great contrast to Bingley, who is outgoing, fun-loving and an admirer of pretty women.
There's an interesting passage between Elizabeth and her friend Charlotte about whether a woman should, in modern terms, play hard to get. They are a bit sorry that Jane is too honest and modest to play any such game. That's a contrast with Miss Bingley, who in several scenes, speaks only to manipulate or to get attention.
Mrs. Bennet is presented as foolish, yet in her way she shows the skills of a business manager or even a spy. She has a goal of marrying off her daughters and she goes about it strategically. She deliberately sends Jane off, knowing she could get sick, then does everything she can to extend the visit - and the ploy actually works. Elizabeth really cares for Jane and is someone who takes action, even if it involves walking through rain and mud.
While Elizabeth is at Netherfield, there are several scenes with Darcy. Austen has let us know that he is interested in her, but Elizabeth has no idea of that. She assumes he has maintained his scornful attitude. And he himself struggles with it, he doesn't want to be attracted to her. Miss Bingley sees it and makes sure to joke with him about it and about the in-laws he would acquire. We'll see later that this is a legitimate concern. Darcy is a snob, and he insists his pride is well deserved.
The Bingley sisters are instantly recognizable to any of us women who once went to school with "mean girls". There is no physical violence, only cutting remarks, disparaging looks, and exclusion, while at the same time claiming they are friends who care about you.
Mrs. Bennett is taking a real risk if she assumes that Jane will get sick, the “modern medicine” of circa 1800 being what it was. It has been objected that in reality Jane would not “catch a cold,” modern science telling us that these are due to viruses and not temperature and wet. Of course, what matters in the book is what was believed at the time.Anecdotally, I was attending UCLA while Southern California was being soaked by El Niño rains for several years, and I routinely came down with bacterial, rather than viral, infections when I got drenched. Fortunately, I had the advantage of antibioticss
Mod
Back then almost any illness could turn nasty. Bleeding was a preferred treatment, and the only genuinely effective medications were purgatives, emetics, opium, and quinine, not that a good deal more wasn’t being confidently prescribed by upper-crust physicians, and down to local apothecaries. In the later nineteenth century much of the traditional pharmacopoeia was discarded under the motto of “first, do no harm.”
One thing that strikes me about the opening chapters of Pride and Prejudice is how closely it resembles a play. The opening paragraph is like a prologue and then it launches straight into dialogue. Each chapter at the beginning is a single set-piece scene, with stage directions sketched in but most of the information coming through the dialogue. Jane Austen was an avid fan of the theater, and she is drawing on that tradition, both in her methods and in her approach to her subject matter, which relies a lot on epigrams and characters’ self-revelation though the absurdity or sense of their words.Her approach to the Bennet parents seems quite clever. As readers we are encouraged to find Mrs. Bennet ridiculous and to ally ourselves with Mr. Bennet because of his wit—but the alert reader may notice that in the context of an entailed estate, Mrs. Bennet is right and responsible to focus on getting good marriages for her children, and Mr. Bennet is sometimes cruelly clever at the expense of them (“While Mary is adjusting her ideas, let us return to Mr. Bingley”). He is also indolent where he should be active on their behalf.
For those who have seen the filmed adaptations, one thing to notice is that Mr. Bingley is often portrayed as something of an idiot in them, but in the book he is far from it. What I see most in these early chapters is his emotional intelligence, which is set up as a contrast to Mr. Darcy’s withdrawn behavior. One of the signs of a true gentleman in Austen’s day was a gift for appearing pleased with any company, for making others feel comfortable and welcome. Mr. Bingley excels in that way.
The resemblance to a play seems to me a very good observation.However, besides the the fact that the Austens themselves indulged in amateur theatricals, much reading then, and well into the nineteenth century, was reading aloud to family or friends: especially of books from rental libraries, so all could inexpensively share. Good readers aloud were highly at all levels of society. A German visitor in the eighteenth century was amazed by the literacy of the London public, and noted that the oft-widowed landlady of his boarding house planned to choose her next husband for his skill in reading aloud.
By the way, the same traveler was impressed that English authors had to worry about cheap pirated editions of their works. That market apparently didn’t exist yet on a major scale in his part of Germany.
Getting back to topic from local color: those of us, practically all moderns, for whom reading is a mostly solitary and silent experience, are probably missing things that were put there with deliberation and care.
Mod
Ian wrote: "the oft-widowed landlady of his boarding house planned to choose her next husband for his skill in reading aloud."... and the matching reference to Jane Austen - Mansfield Park this time. Remember how Fanny's opinion of Crawford improved significantly when she heard him read aloud? So ... that German gentleman's observation was not that far-fetched.
His observation was of how far down the social scale this had gone when a mere boardinghouse keeper considered a good foundation for a marriage: one would have expected it in the gentry.
Mod
In yet another reread of this novel I was looking forward to frequent chuckles and the not too infrequent laugh out loud, and in these opening chapters I wasn’t disappointed.The early chapters read more like a dysfunctional family ‘sitcom.’
As a dysfunctional family, the Bennets wouldn’t be too much out of place today. The only difference today would be that all the girls would have phones and Mr. And Mrs. Bennet would have even less control of their children.
My favourite episodes/situations were:-
a. The big house’s reaction to Eliza arriving at Netherfield with dirty stockings and a dirty petticoat. Her tramp across muddy fields to arrive like a scarecrow didn’t stop her behaving like a ‘mouthy madam’ once she had settled in.
b. Miss Bingley constantly fawning around Darcy and seemingly not getting the (often rude) message that he wasn’t interested.
c. Mrs. Bennet trying to describe to her husband the dancing exploits of Jane/Mr. Bingley at the ball and her husband’s reaction’s.
’ “If he had had any compassion for ME,” cried her husband impatiently, “he would not have danced half so much! For God’s sake, say no more of his partners. O that he had sprained his ankle in the first place!”
Darcy’s initial appearances were with his nose so high in the air that the Hertfordshire rooks must have been considering nesting on it. Having stood on his self styled pedestal, he seems to be there to be knocked off and really, the only way is down.
Bingley’s defence of Darcy’s character was so weak, I was surprised that none of the Bennets questioned Bingley’s judgement. No doubt it was due to his close attentions towards Jane. It was only the other aspects of his character that redeemed him.
Despite the Bennet’s making me laugh surely it was a dereliction of duty for Mr. And Mrs. Bennet to allow Kitty and Lydia into the lions den of the officers lodgings. The pretext of visiting the officers’ wives was so lame when in fact the girls were flaunting themselves in front of the soldiers. They were children after all and the soldiers would have taken no prisoners given half the chance. Captain Carter? No doubt there were dozens of Captain Tilney types waiting to devour them.
The precociousness of Lydia, both in her dangerous attitude towards red coats and the way she demanded a ball from Mr. Bingley, needed correcting by her father. He may be a comic but surely he knew that he couldn’t rely on his wife to look after his daughters? Calling them ‘silly’ was just not enough and had no effect on Lydia.
’ The two youngest of the family, Catherine and Lydia,……..their minds were more vacant than their sisters’, and when nothing better offered, a walk to Meryton was necessary to amuse their morning hours and furnish conversation for the evening.’
JA might well have been hinting that the youngest Bennet girls were rather below the top of the tree when it came to intelligence but what about the fact that they were so very young?
Mr. Bennet has been the most interesting character for several re-reads now. He is so life-like in his contradictions. On the one hand, I love his humour and his satirical outlook, on the other, he shirks his duties and, it seems, anything that costs him an effort and takes him away from his books. (I wish I knew what he was reading in all those hours he spent in his study ...) - I consider him more of a cynic than a comic. what about the fact that they were so very young?
that's an interesting point, and a bit confusing for our era, I think. One aspect is that for all their being so young, they were considered of marriageable age or close to it. So in a sense they were considered near-grownup, and not as mentally/emotionally immature as today's 14/15 year olds. The other aspect is that they act just as immature as a modern day teenager. It does not really add up - but I think that, just as with Mr. Bennet, Jane Austen does not hesitate to confront us with contradictory characters. It makes them more interesting, although the reader is never much invested in Kitty & Lydia.
(... just rethinking the contradictions in other JA characters throughout her novels: there are lots. Among them those where I get the impression that JA was herself undecided which aspect to develop & let carry the day, or rather the plot)
sabagrey wrote: "Mr. Bennet has been the most interesting character for several re-reads now. He is so life-like in his contradictions. On the one hand, I love his humour and his satirical outlook, on the other, he..."Yes Mr. Bennet’s cynicism is almost his substitute for astute parenting (and husbanding (if thats a word)). But he makes me laugh, that's why I call him a comic. I also find him the most interesting character, probably because of that contradictory element you mention. I can never be sure what his reaction will be so I look forward to his next involvement.
Mrs. Bennet's main failing is that she failed to give birth to a boy. Marriage is the only (respectable) career option for a girl, and her main function in that career is to produce a male heir. Imagine poor Mr. Bennet as daughter after daughter arrived. As Ian has pointed out, the first two daughters were more welcome, because surely a son was still a possibility. But with every new baby, disappointment turned to despair. And now that the hope of a boy is gone, he has retreated from taking any responsibility.
If we take a late dating for the action (close to time of revision for publication), Mr. Bennett has been in a hard place for a long time. Taxes and wartime inflation are taking the income he needed to provide for so many daughters, but drastic economies are going to reduce the family’s standing in the eyes of neighbors, damaging their chances of good marriages in another way.He is apparently a fairly small landowner, without the means for “improvements” to increase production, and so can’t take much advantage of the enormous demand for grain and.cattle to feed the army and especially the Navy.
Mod
I was also surprised by how much liberty the younger girls had, and agree that this is a failing on their parents part-while we can blame the father I do think that this role would in general have been left to the mother to instruct her girls in proper behaviour/decorum, but she clearly lacks the ability to do this properly for the younger ones. What led to the older ones being so much better? Perhaps Mrs Beneett wasn't quite so tired and worn out at that stage and by daughters 4 & 5 was simply exhausted with the effort.
Mod
Did the girls have a governess, I wonder? Emma certainly did, in her book. Possibly they couldn't afford one, or not after the girls got older.
Robin Wrote:“A good thing about rereading a book when you already know the plot and some of the lines is being able to focus on how the author uses language, how characters are depicted, etc”.
My sentiment exactly!
I don’t care about the plot or who the protagonist(s) are (if there are any).
I am really enjoying the read this time around.
There are a couple of well bread rich guys in town which causes a bunch of girls and their mothers to hang around them like flies around a chamber pot.
Then the writing gets wonderfully descriptive - Plenty of sarcasm and jealousy between the women, especially behind their backs. I felt that they all ought to be wearing stab proof vests, it was brilliant.
As for the males, I’m beginning to love Darcy on the way that his impertinence is managed, carefully reserving his model answer should he be challenged.
I can’t wait for next week’s read.
Mod
“A good thing about rereading a book when you already know the plot and some of the lines is being able to focus on how the author uses language, how characters are depicted, etc”.
M..."
Your summary shows how easy it would be to update this story to modern times. Maybe the rich guys would now be tech bros, rock stars, or athletes. And the younger sisters would be totally into internet culture.
The film Bridget Jones' Diary, is one of many based on P&P. But I don't think it captured the society mores and snobbery the way the movie Clueless did for Emma.
I suspect that there is a City/Country division in the background of some scenes that we may be missing, especially with the Bingleys. Elizabeth making a long, apparently unescorted, walk through muddy fields (or roads) to visit her ailing sister is a country solution to a problem. A long, and unescorted, walk would be unthinkable at the gentry level in London, and the physical exertion probably beyond anyone unaccustomed to traversing long distances between dwellings.
(Georgette Heyer had some fun with a reverse situation, country girls in London, in “Frederica”. Expectations of safety also figure in “Venetia”.)
I have spent some time thinking about the “Mean Girls” description of the Bingley sisters, and it fits pretty well. But there is something beyond a high school clique involved. They are exalting themselves over members of the landowning or otherwise established local gentry, and I can’t help thinking that this is supposed to reflect anxiety over their social standing, the family being so recently connected to (shudder) Trade. Their brother seems to have adapted much better. Although it should be said that he focuses on not just the prettiest girl, but the eldest daughter of a landowner. He doesn’t need to marry for money, but class may be important to him.
More on the Bingley sisters: sometimes seems to me that their disposition to manage others, not only their brother, in whom they have a vested interest, but Mr. Darcy, was cleaned up and repurposed for Emma Woodhouse. Emma is out to manipulate everyone around her, in the conviction that she understands their best interests and is bound to advance them.In this she manifests her father’s interfering, but limited, concern with others, which makes him a comic figure, instead of self-seeking. And she probably has experience managing her father for his own good: a country gentleman who worries about the safety of a walk in his own garden clearly needs guidance!
Ian wrote: "I have spent some time thinking about the “Mean Girls” description of the Bingley sisters, and it fits pretty well. But there is something beyond a high school clique involved. They are exalting th..."Totally agree with this take on the Bingley sisters. They are only one or two generations away from the taint of manufacturing, so they embrace a caricature of aristocratic gentility. Their anxiety is betrayed by their eagerness to align themselves with Darcy and his sister.
Interesting speculation that Darcy is jealous of Bingley for dancing with the prettiest girl in the room, but read on—the reasons for his mood become clearer at the halfway point.
Speculation over Mr. Bennet’s role as a father is interesting (at least to me), but I suspect his involvement wasn’t all that great until the older girls began to talk. As for Mrs. Bennett, she may not have been quite as worn out by five small children as one might think. Jane Austen’s own family followed the widespread practice of putting infants “out to nurse” in other households, naturally of a lower class, and they may have had limited contact with their actual parents until they were toddlers, at least. The psychological effect of this has apparently never been studied, but one wonders if the girls had different nurses as well as different personalities.
In passing: sending newborns to a country cottage may have made a great deal of sense. Even in the late nineteenth century the child of a farm laborer, at the bottom of the social scale, had a better chance of surviving infancy than the child of a rich urban family (notably London, but the new industrial cities were also notoriously dangerous).The change to modern patterns of preferred urban survival may not have been related to medical practices. It has been argued that the critical factor was the motor vehicle, which replaced innumerable horses, tons of manure, and ubiquitous flies, with relatively healthy petroleum byproducts.
oops, I think the children smothered in smog like in, say, Delhi might not fully agree with your "relatively healthy petroleum byproducts".
I agree. I spent my early childhood in Los Angeles before smog control. I was being slightly (and probably obscurely) ironic about the difference between infectious diseases and the first appearance of automobile pollution. But for many decades London coal smoke was probably still more of a hazard than gasoline and diesel fumes. In fact it was a main ingredient in the Killer Smog episode, and eliminating it helped banish the infamous London fogs.
This is my first reading of Pride and Prejudice, but I certainly recognized that famous first sentence. So far, I’m enjoying this delightful froth as a story of manners, money, and marriages. Mr. Bennett is my favorite character, a quiet man in the whirlwind of a house of females. The Bingley sisters are two-faced snobs, Mr. Bingley is a sweetheart, and Mr. Darcy is one big puzzle. It’s hard to imagine him as a romantic hero, what with his aloof and cold nature; but obviously he is attracted to the more down-to-earth (and beautiful) Elizabeth. Mrs. Bennett sometimes makes me cringe with her tactlessness and scorn of anyone she perceives as a rival for her daughters, but I admire her single-minded pursuit of what she perceives as the main goal in her life.
Mod
Week 1: Volume I, Chapters 1-14
Discussion Questions
1) The novel opens with the famous line, "It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife." What does this line tell us about the society and the expectations placed on women? What does it tell us about Austen's narrative style? What tone does she establish from the beginning? How does humor play a role in shaping our first impressions?
2) How does Jane Austen introduce the social world of the novel in the first chapter? What do we immediately learn about the Bennet family and their priorities?
3) How is Mr. Darcy presented when we first meet him? How do the other characters’ opinions influence the reader’s view of him? What is the initial impression of Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth, and how do their first meetings at the Meryton ball and during the Netherfield visit cement Elizabeth's opinion of him?
4) What are your first impressions of Elizabeth Bennet? How does she differ from her sisters?
5) How do the contrasting personalities of Mr. Bingley and Mr. Darcy become clear through their dialogue and actions in the first few chapters?
6) What does Mr. Bennet's character reveal about his view of his daughters and his marriage? How does he interact with his wife and the other children? Does his wit make him sympathetic, or is it also somewhat irresponsible? What do we learn about Mrs. Bennet in these chapters? Is she merely comic relief, or does Austen use her to make a social point?
7) Mr. Collins is introduced near the end of this section. What is your first impression of him, and how does he add to Austen’s critique of marriage and social ambition?