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Senseless Acts of Beauty
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WEEK TWO DISCUSSION
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Wow I did NOT like Tess, this tatted up, smart mouthed, nasty individual from the get go and I knew she was an integral part of this whole story and I thought oh Lisa you've done it you've created a character I can't relate/sympathize/empathize with.
BUT then we get to part two and things start falling into place with why Tess is like she is and we start to see a for less of a better term softer side to her and all the pieces finally started falling into place when I learned that Sadie was conceived as the result of a rape, then I had nothing for admiration for Tess and I like Riley wanted to know, How Tess can love this child borne of violence.
So Lisa you once again BLEW ME AWAY with your storyline/character development.
For those of you who didn't see it here is my published review of Senseless Acts of Beauty
Susan wrote: "Thanks Deb I was feeling really bad about not liking Tess, and I did not want Lisa to think I was a nut/crazy/ or rude. More later almost to 20"Susan, same here. I felt bad for not liking Tess.
Okay Dokey, here goes..Not sure how to go about answering the first one, more thought needed!
I actually googled "Palmer Handwriting" also Debbie!! (Great minds think alike aye?)
I definitely find the humour works for me when reading the darker parts of the story. It makes it easier to digest those difficult parts of the story. And adds a lighter feel.
I must admit I was a little disappointed with Claire and Tess's reunion, I found it a little short and sweet. And expect that they would discuss more than what they did. I'm actually going to go back and read that section over again.... so more thoughts to add to this.
I think the ultimatum given by Riley, was because she found herself in a very hard position. Say "stuck between a rock and hard place" because she felt obligation to both Tess and Sadie. As Tess was a long time friend she wanted to stick by her, and because she felt a kinship with Sadie because both of them were adopted. I still think she was trying to please everyone though :)
Hah hah, Susan, I'd never think you were "a nut/crazy/or rude!" for speaking your mind! I love hearing you guys talk about the story--the good stuff as well as the bad stuff. I'm soaking it all up! It helps me understand what worked, what didn't, and what I need to look out for when I'm working on future novels. So please be honest & forthright -- I've been writing for twenty-mumble-mumble years, so I've got a hide like a rhinoceros. ;)
Deb, Ang -- if I managed to change your feelings for Tess over the course of the book, then . . . mission accomplished! This is essentially why Tess was so hard to introduce in this story--to the outside world she puts up a tough face, in fact, she intentionally makes herself unlikeable because then she doesn't have to *care.* I sorta held my breath and hoped that, over time, as she reveals more of herself, folks would warm up to her.
And Deb, that review . . . I had to pick myself up off the floor after reading it. <3 <3 <3
First, BEAUTIFUL review, Deb!!!!! Right out of Rigley field :-)I know Tess. She came through my door many times when my kids were going through their teen years. Huh? you say? My kids didn't bring home lost puppies, they brought home runaways that they would find living under the bridges at the park at the bottom of our road, or from the parks along the Santa Fe River downtown. It became know in the "circles" that if they were tired of running, we were a safe haven. Over the years, we helped many of the lost kids find their way back home or to safe havens with relatives. Nooooo, not tapping a horn, just saying, I recognize Sadie, Tess and yes, Riley too. For quite a few times, it was a Riley that showed up at our door ready to go back home, but not sure how to do it. These little fledglings with broken wings stayed anywhere from one night to five or six years. And there were repeat visitors.
That aside, all I can say is that Lisa has nailed this story to the barn wall. She has captured the very essence of the fear, the anxiety, the confusion, the sadness, the loneliness, and most of all the "lostness" of these kids that just don't feel like they truly belong. There are the lucky ones that are truly loved back at home, but then there are those like Tess that a home was a wrecking derby. Love was a longed for dream that she really did not know what it really was and if and when someone showed her a basic kindness, she ran for the hills because she did not know how to receive or reciprocate those emotions of tender feelings -- they were truly foreign. The one time in her life that she actually found and felt those feelings was with Riley's grandparents.
I love the way Lisa uses words and finds symbolism in imagery. It broadens the visual experience of her novels.. Love Love Love!!!!! I really love it when her "geek" escapes. Lol It sends us all scurrying for the dictionary or google. WTG, Lisa.
Karen said: That aside, all I can say is that Lisa has nailed this story to the barn wall.*choke* *sputter* *sob*
Karen, that was my greatest wish and my biggest fear: That I didn't get it right. Even though I grew up with young versions of Tess (not easy) and bewildered versions of Sadie (gobsmacked, trying to make sense of the world), I always was aware that I was an outsider, someone who saw their pain but could only imagine their inner turmoil. [For those who don't already know--my mother took in foster kids when I was young, so I grew up in safety & love but also among quite a bit of real-life turmoil.]
So that comment of yours . . . I'm humbled, and grateful.
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Yeah Susan I was chomping at the bit to say something but I wanted the time to be right :)
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Not sure how to go about answering the first one, more thought needed!
I actually googled "Palmer Handwriting" also Debbie!! (Great minds think alike aye?)
I definitely f..."
Thanks Ang for your great thoughts on this section. I agree that Riley is still trying to please. But I know how hard it is to say no.
Do you think this is more a gender problem?
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This is essentially why Tess was so hard to introduce in this story--to th..."
Yeah well Lisa I only speak the truth xo
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I know Tess. She came through my door many times when my kids were going through their teen years. Huh? you say? My kids didn't b..."
I'm with Lisa, Karen you humble me too. And you and your family never stopped giving whether it was Fred and you playing Mr and Mrs Claus or your years with Habitat for Humanity. If it weren't for the generosity of people like you this world would have fallen apart long ago.
xo
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And one more thing will you be able to give us any hints about the next instillation of this series?
Deb --Having three girls (and having three female teenagers in the house all at one time) definitely gave me an advantage when writing about Sadie! No question.
Did I mention that my husband took up hunting after daughter #3 turned 13? (poor guy!)
...I'm going to hold off about talking about what's next in the series until next week. I've got some questions for all of you I'd like to pose before I say anything, but I want you guys to be done with the book first!
It seems we are all in agreement that we didn't really care too much for Tess at first. But speaking for myself, Lisa, you did what you set out to accomplish, because I began to warm to her as I continued reading.
I definitely think the humor in the dark places is a plus! The subject matter is serious, but the little bits of humor lighten the intensity just enough without being distracting. I enjoyed this technique in the other two books we read as well.
I was really hoping for a little more involvement from Claire, but I guess she was the star in the last book, so maybe that's to be expected. Perhaps that's just a teaser and we'll hear more from her in a future book?
I did not realize that in thirty-one states rapists can claim parental rights to their biological children. That is one of the things that I googled and found it is a true fact. I was shocked at how many news articles appeared detailing cases of rape victims being sued by rapists wanting partial custody or visitation rights.
I agree that Riley is still trying to please, but she's coming around. I think she probably thought her ultimatum was necessary and maybe her only option considering the difficult position she was put in.
I definitely think the humor in the dark places is a plus! The subject matter is serious, but the little bits of humor lighten the intensity just enough without being distracting. I enjoyed this technique in the other two books we read as well.
I was really hoping for a little more involvement from Claire, but I guess she was the star in the last book, so maybe that's to be expected. Perhaps that's just a teaser and we'll hear more from her in a future book?
I did not realize that in thirty-one states rapists can claim parental rights to their biological children. That is one of the things that I googled and found it is a true fact. I was shocked at how many news articles appeared detailing cases of rape victims being sued by rapists wanting partial custody or visitation rights.
I agree that Riley is still trying to please, but she's coming around. I think she probably thought her ultimatum was necessary and maybe her only option considering the difficult position she was put in.
Ah, uh thanks. Deb, Lisa. I think we all call it as we see it and each of us do what we can in our own little corner. Lisa, I hope you are inspiring people and giving them the courage to reach out there beyond themselves. Your stories inspire the blazes out of me. Riley has always reached out to those that Gran and grandpa brought in, the wonderful lovely families that came and loved the camp like she did. Reaching out to Sadie and Tess was forcing her out of her box. She was already tusselling with her mom over not meeting family expectations, and to reach out to Sadie and Tess, she was really starting to rock that boat.
I think it is going to be interesting to find out why she really decided to dump the chump and go for what it was she really wanted in life. To me it sounded like she was his throw rug that he could walk all over and push around. He obviously was still not listening at that tete-a-tete over coffee (which she didn't even like). MEN!!!!! Well, at least I got a winner. LOL
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Hi TarHeelGirl, yes that was another fact about the rapist being able to claim parental rights that i had to further investigate. UNBELIEVABLE!!!
I actually like the loose connection that Lisa gives us from past to present in her series and maybe you are right and it's a hint to the future too
Thanks for your wonderful thoughts and comments
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Karen, wow I kind of liked Declan and yes he was a bit of a steamroller but I think that was Riley's fault too. I just never saw him as controlling as you seem to. Thanks for the alternative viewpoint :)
I agree with Karen that Declan was still not really listening to Riley during their meeting. Obviously, he still cares since he did make the effort to show up. Yet, they both want different things, and he seems to think his ideas are more important. Riley needs a man who will take the time to really understand her, even when she's having trouble expressing herself, and Declan doesn't fit that mold.
Deb: I never saw him as steam rolling...I call it passive aggressive. What part of "I never want children" did he not get? Or about the part where she did not like her current job or the environment there? He didn't listen. He had his own agenda of what their marriage was supposed to be and his own expectations. he couldn't understand why the goals and wishes that would make him feel complete didn't make her feel complete. okay, rant over. "music to "let me be me" slowly fades in background)
Thank you Tarheelgirl
Karen wrote: "Deb: I never saw him as steam rolling...
I call it passive aggressive. What part of "I never want children" did he not get? Or about the part where she did not like her current job or the environ..."
I agree. He seemed to think he knew what was best for her without considering how she felt.
I call it passive aggressive. What part of "I never want children" did he not get? Or about the part where she did not like her current job or the environ..."
I agree. He seemed to think he knew what was best for her without considering how she felt.
I did notice how Riley associated her emotions with birds. One of the passages I loved and had highlighted was, "Whenever Riley felt like an oversize cowbird in the nest of tiny Crosses, she would retreat to this camp where, for reasons unknown, she always felt she belonged." (pg. 99) It painted a vivid picture to me of how it was to feel like you didn't belong.I did like having humor injected into the story to lighten up the mood. In fact, I feel I tend to do that in my real life. I think that's why I liked Tess' character. Whenever things became too serious she would make a smart-mouthed comment. During her conversations with Officer Rodriguez, I found myself cringing like did you really just say that and at the same time, giggling at her nerve.
I thought Claire and Tess' reunion was cut a bit short. I was glad Claire was able to make an appearance and we were able to get an update on her, but I think I was expecting her to have more of an impact on Tess. I understand the book was focusing on Tess and Riley and adding too many more characters might take away from their story, but I'm hoping for more reunions with all the Pine Lake girls in the future.
I was shocked to hear Riley give Tess the ultimatum. It didn't really sound like the Riley we had come to know. I think part of Riley's threat was based on her own experience with her birth mother. She didn't want Sadie scarred like she was. But I think another part of Riley is emerging and she is becoming able to make tough decisions when she feels she clearly knows what the right thing to do is.
This section completely blew me away. The pieces of the puzzle started falling into place and by the end of Tess' confession of how Sadie was conceived, I had nothing but admiration for Tess and the tough choice she was faced with. While I always liked Tess, I was frustrated with her when it came to her choices involving Sadie, but after learning the truth of what really happened, I could see how honorable her decision was and how hard it had been for her to give up Sadie to keep her protected from the man who raped her. She protected her daughter at all costs, even if it meant never seeing her again. That is the true definition of a mother. And while Sadie may not be able to understand the complexity of the situation just yet I have hopes for the future that someday that will change.
Great analysis guys! I'm soaking it all in!
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Great thoughts April, yes I loved the Cowbird analogy too!
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I call it passive aggressive. What part of "I never want children" did he not get? Or about the part where she did not like her current job ..."
I still don't see the passive aggressiveness either you two. This is my thoughts on the whole Riley Declan relationship.
Riley never made a decision for herself and so that's what Declan thought she wanted. And then he wakes up one day and she says I don't want to be married anymore. And I know many people who cliam they don't want children when they're young. My daughter never wanted children until she turned 30.
I love how we see things differently :)
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Great Susan for being caught up!!
Yeah
And YES to your thoughts about Tess telling Sadie who she is.
But (yeah there's always a but)
What about Tess's insecurities about thinking how Sadie will feel if she does leave some pertinent information off the table then Sadie finds out and hates her. Yikes! What a dilemma all around.
Wow Lisa, this was a real punch in the gut part of the story!!
Hey ladies I'm LOVING this conversation! I just wanted to let you know that I have to bow out of it until late next week. Tonight my whole family is off to Barcelona to visit daughter #2, who is spending junior year abroad in Spain. (SQUEEEEE!!) I'll be pretty much off the grid (no phone) so I'll have to catch up later.Can't wait to see what you all think about the ending!
Have fun, Lisa. take pics, collect notes for new book, and talk to you later
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OOh Lisa, I'm Green. We'll miss you but like Karen said send pics!!!
Have fun!
xo
Lisa, have a fun and safe trip!
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Deb Sadie is just to young and immature to know the whole story, and I think Tess needs some professional help to deal with everything, maybe after she tells Sadie. Tess S..."
Yes I can definitely see this. Thanks Susan!
Wow you guys have been busy in this thread!!
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As bees Ang :)
Well this was definitely a meaty part of the story, lots of discoveries, some of them very dire.
On with the show!!
Lisa has intimated her readers to her characters by her metaphoric analogies like when Riley associates emotions/descriptions with birds.
Have you noticed other analogies?
I also love how she infuses pragmatic facts into her fiction. One I noticed that had me googling was The Palmer method of handwriting.
What about you, have you found something you’ve needed to investigate further?
And since I’ve got Lisa on the hot seat might as well keep her there LOL ☺
She’s also injected humor in critical places to lighten the dark spots.
Does it work for you?
Discuss how you felt about Claire and Tess’s reunion.
And lastly what did you think about Riley’s ultimatum to Tess to tell Sadie or she would?
This doesn't seem like the people pleasing Riley we first met.
Is she finally getting some hutzpah? Is it because she and Sadie are both adoptees, or something else?
As always this is just a helping hand please discuss other things that concerned/ surprised you and also as always Lisa's here too!