Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion
Chit Chat and All That
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It has been sadly quieter than usual around here! The vote gets usually small numbers until the notification goes out--but not THIS small. Reading this post, I could hear the proverbial pin drop ...
I just voted due to the one posted poll link, but I didn’t get a message for the rest of the polls. Thank you J_Blueflower.If others also rely on getting messages in their apps with links to the polls, that maybe the reason so few have voted.
If a message doesn’t come with the poll links, and I go to the website, where do I find the polls?
Participation in the discussion is a fascinating topic in itself, even more so than participation in the vote. I happened to read in a newspaper that the many book-related communities scattered across various social media platforms – including the most recent and popular ones – are becoming less and less frequented.For my part, I have no hesitation in saying that the model does not seem to be in particularly good health. It occurred to me that *high* participation in voting and *low* participation in discussion could be linked: many people vote for a book that they then do not discuss or even read, with the result that the actual participants in the group have less power over the decision of what to read. They end up with a book chosen by others, and perhaps they do not really want to read it.
Today, I believe that a more general disaffection with virtual spaces or even with the art of discussion itself may also come into play.
Terry wrote: "If a message doesn’t come with the poll links, and I go to the website, where do I find the polls? ..."To the right: Group Home, Challenges, .... Polls
These are permanent links
Ascanio wrote: " It occurred to me that *high* participation in voting and *low* participation in discussion could be linked"I agree. Some of those votes are "I should read that book" or "Oh, I know that author". But most of the time it works. Except that non-English authors are under-represented
Thanks, J. I will look for that.For those members who have unfinished challenges, this can be a tough time of year. I know that I have “overbooked” the rest of my year.
I was going to say exactly what Terry said. I've committed to some books I need to finish by December.This has gotten me to think about how I tackle the 2026 challenges so I can leave more time open to join the monthly reads, especially as members are discussing our voting and engagement, and the buddy reads have had some interest. Maybe we can find more ways to "combine them" so to speak. Do you think a second place winner should get to join the poll the following month? Just an idea.
Ack, thanks for this, J_BlueFlower. I confess, I simply lost track of the date!
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Perhaps this is the normal ebb and flow of the group. There is usually a burst of activity in November, December and January.
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The poll message has been sent.
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This has gotten me to how I tackle the 2026 challenges so I can leave more time open to join ..."
In past years we had a "Second Place July" where the second place vote recipients from the Polls Jan-June were the books in the poll. We could think about something like that again.
About voting: I try to vote for the Short story each month and one book. I look at which book from all the polls that I am most likely to read. Some people vote in all polls. There's no one correct way to do it.
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I do also think things begin to slow down naturally this time of the year. More people travel and are involved in family focused activities. As mentioned, many of us are just trying to put the final entries in the challenges before the holidays descend.
Wishing all of our moderators the best with health issues. We love you all!
Kathleen wrote: "Wishing all of our moderators the best with health issues. We love you all!"hear! hear!
Yes, I hope you all will be back on your toes very soon! I found the poll on the homepage and placed my votes.
Kathleen wrote: "Wishing all of our moderators the best with health issues. We love you all!"Yes! Get well soon.
Sara wrote: "...slow down naturally this time of the year. More people travel and are involved in family focused activities. .."Sounds like you have people from the USA in mind? They are about 4% of the world population, but likely a larger part of the group
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Sounds like you have people from the USA in mind? They are about 4%..."
I just meant we're finishing challenges this time of year and November, December we start planning for next year. November and December are exciting for me. I love making and reading lists.
Thanks for the well wishes!
I just wanted to say, I hope that Goodreads and places like it can continue to exist because these sites are a sort of oasis for me. Here, people are thoughtful; it is not those that shout loudest that have the voice but rather those who take the time to understand.There have been times in my life where I have not been on Goodreads as often because of personal challenges or work issues, but I will always be here in some capacity.
I love participating in an online community where people treat each other with consideration, where there is actual real moderation, where people who are doing harm can be removed from the group. It is more like a real community here. If someone came into a group of my friends in my living room and started to behave cruelly and irresponsibly, I would kick them out. Likewise, the moderators here and in the Goodreads groups I participate in actually care about their members and protect them. It's the exact opposite of something like Facebook or X, where mayhem is applauded. On Goodreads, deep and intelligent discourse and rewarding relationships are the point. The point is not to win an argument but to thrive emotionally and intellectually.
I love it here! As long as people are still on this site that enrich my life in this way, I plan to stay. Thanks everyone for being a part of what makes this site what it is! Whether Amazon values us or not, we can still value each other.
You have said it so well, Greg. I so appreciate this community and our commitments to the discussions, the seeking of truth and to the respect of each other.
I also appreciate the community so much as well. I also agree that some social media communities and platforms are not as friendly due to disagreeing with others over beliefs systems, religion, politics, whatever, and lack of self-awareness or moderation. I think the one thing that I love about this community is that we all love books and want to talk about books and want to escape in books. And we can agree and disagree and whatever about a book, but express how we feel, and feel comfortable about it. We can put all other things aside. I echo Greg's sentiments.Oh, as far as the initial topic about the polls. I usually don't check until it is the 16th for the polls to appear, and have sometimes waited a bit to decide later, so I guess I could see how sometimes there are not that many votes early on. Sometimes it seems like the votes come pouring in as we approach the end of the month deadline.
Well said Greg. I agree. Also some groups on Reddit have a extremely low ratio of noise. I guess the text-based format keep the worst types away.I am getting increasing scared of the future of the Internet. A offline(!) journal I read, had looked into internet traffic generated by bots and it was rapid rising. (Not kb, but number of pings). Some scary day the net may become bots talking to bots.
Greg wrote: "... Facebook or X, where mayhem is applauded ..."But how many are real people? My local community have a Facebook page (for like blocks due to roadworks, runaway cats….), so I see Facebook. Some of it is crappy, extremely obvious AI. Why are “people” commenting it like it is real? Maybe they are bots?
I think maybe Facebook and X are killing themselves allowing bots to post. Who is going to be around when 90% of the traffic is bots? Who want to pay for advertisements when they are only "seen" by bots?
J_BlueFlower wrote: "I am getting increasing scared of the future of the Internet."It is worrying, but perhaps even more worrying is the possibility of losing the ability to distinguish between a good model and a mediocre one.
The work of the moderators and the contribution of the participants are invaluable – that is not in question. However, with all due respect and hoping not to offend anyone, I would find it difficult to say that this is a thriving model of communication. This same discussion has been initiated by others who, in their own way, have also noticed a flaw in communication. I perceive this space a bit like the seaside resorts that flourished on the English coast in the 1950s and 1960s: some people continue to frequent them and get what they can out of them, but the progressive state of neglect and the collapse of the entire proposed system cannot fail to strike one.
I just saw a video on AI and the future of the Internet. And it mentioned something I had failed to consider. As more and more AI is used for Internet searches, etc. the AI "chats" will begin to learn on AI-generated content. I don't know if this is the path the programmers will actually use to train future AI, but you'd think they've evaluated how it would affect it.
Greg wrote: "I just wanted to say, I hope that Goodreads and places like it can continue to exist because these sites are a sort of oasis for me. Here, people are thoughtful; it is not those that shout loudest ..."Beautifully said, Greg, and exactly how I feel. So glad to know you're here for the long haul. Me too!
Lots of interesting thoughts stated already. I think there are multiple contributing factors to the decline in participation. One that is not discussed enough is book availability and cost. In my country, library book availability is shrinking dramatically. And the price of books is increasing equally dramatically. I do not know how much this is contributing to the decline in participation, but can see a potential contribution of considerable consequence if the situation worsens or even continues for any length of time.
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I agree. Cost of books is an issue. It influences which books I nominate and which discussions I participate in. I rely on ebooks to find many of the selections or youtube videos. Sometimes the youtube audiobook will have text on the screen to read along.
I feel like time is the other limiting factors. A discussion of two or three texts each month is enough for me. I visit the Bingo and Challenge Buffet threads of members. A lot of good discussion happens on those threads.
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I owned my first computer in 1980. I programmed DOS and Fortran to work on a mainframe. In 1988 I had my first AOL email account and found the AOL chatrooms. These have gone; things change. That's ok. New and better things keep popping up. Plus I can always read at home on my own if I want to.
Lynn wrote: "New and better things keep popping up."I used to feel that way, but I think now, what I see happening is more of what J_BlueFlower sees. Bots and toxic content have completely overwhelmed most online forums; Goodreads is an exception. And to be honest, toxic behavior has overwhelmed many face to face activities as well.
I do have friends that I treasure face to face.
But I think for me, reading is not fundamentally solitary. Yes, when I read, I am alone. But when I think about books afterwards, I do that with other people. And for me, the actual reading time is the tip of the iceberg that shows above the water. The thinking about books is the whole massive substructure underneath the water; it isn't as obvious to see, but it is much, much bigger.
When I was younger, I read for my own pleasure . . . or I felt pleasure just in learning. I enjoyed just cogitating about books by myself. But as I get older, I see that my time on this planet is limited. What matters to me most in this world is other people, and if what I read has no effect on my relationships with other people, I'm finding that I don't see much point to it anymore. Enriching my relationships with other people and with the world is pretty much my main point in reading nowadays.
I suspect that if my offline friends lost interest in reading and if forums like Goodreads dwindled to the point that they ceased to exist, I would probably stop reading. I am sure I would try to get that experience somewhere else, like face to face reading groups, but the quality of discussion is much higher on Goodreads than in most face to face reading groups. And the variety of books that can be discussed is much broader. I can actually discuss the books that interest me, rather than more popular ones that only mildly interest me.
I agree with you Ascanio that Goodreads is not perfect. But I haven't yet found anything better, and I find a lot to cherish in it.
Sam wrote: "In my country, library book availability is shrinking dramatically. And the price of books is increasing equally dramatically. "Sam, that's an interesting point, which I'd love to see explored further. On this side of the pond, things aren't too bad. In Italy, and even more so in France, even technical literature is sold at very reasonable prices. I am an avid library user: because I am interested in titles that have long been unavailable; because I like to compare different editions of the same work and have access to multiple comments and analyses; and above all because I support the vision of shared and collectively cultivated knowledge. How are American libraries doing? The news reports about British libraries are extremely worrying.
Greg wrote: "I agree with you Ascanio that Goodreads is not perfect. But I haven't yet found anything better, and I find a lot to cherish in it.
Greg, I really like your emphasis on sharing experiences, including reading! I completely agree with you on this. My interest is not in perfection – which is not part of this world – but in a very human and reasonable sense of satisfaction. I believe that when we stop questioning an object – a project, a theme, a solution, language itself – that object is automatically anchored to an increasingly distant past that is less and less responsive to the needs and challenges of the present.
I agree with Greg's point about sharing adding so much to the reading experience. Even though I enjoy that part immensely, I know I am selfish enough to keep reading on my own if it all goes away. But I don't believe this will happen, though I do think it will become more difficult. I always keep in my mind the end of Farenheit 451, when people who have managed to hold onto a copy of the burned books are memorizing them to ensure they continue to live.I buy very few new books, but I do frequent library sales and find many new, barely read copies there. I think there must be people buying them, even if they give them away without reading them! I've also noticed that my library's hold shelf is always full with books people have ordered through interlibrary loan, so that gives me hope.
Honestly, I'm not a big fan of technological changes, and am very worried about the future. But at the same time I believe things that society has long known to be valuable, like reading and learning and sharing what we learn, will always be with us. But I think we're coming on a time when we'll have to work harder to keep them.
Kathleen wrote: "Honestly, I'm not a big fan of technological changes, and am very worried about the future."Kathleen, I'm not a big fan of technological changes either— in my case, the reluctance extends to the use of technology tout court. Your final observation seems very lucid. It is precisely the desire to defend what I love that persuades me to make an effort to open up to technological change and the creative exploration of new possibilities.
On the subject of public libraries, I still remember an experience from almost a decade ago, which I perceived at the time as the sign of the change of an era. I was leaving London to return to Italy and had decided to donate my books to the Central Library of my Borough rather than take them with me. It was a large, recently refurbished space, with bookshelves occupying about 15% of the floor space, while the rest was left to socialising and afternoon activities. The choice of books was tragically modest: the number of volumes was what I would find in the library of an Italian village of 1,500 inhabitants, but that London library served 80,000 inhabitants. I was told that the library did not accept donations as it had no space for more books.
To return to the subject of this discussion, my previous comments refer to cases such as the present discussion on Cousine Bette, but also to that on Genji last summer. Based on my personal experiences and on what I can see, the not-so-remote possibility that a discussion might go deserted has made me cautious about changing my preferences to suit group readings. I believe that reflecting on possible initiatives to improve things could restore the confidence and interest of others as well.
Ascanio wrote: "Sam, that's an interesting point, which I'd love to see explored further ...How are American libraries doing? The news reports about British libraries are extremely worrying."
The U.S. libraries are varied, but for the most part were very satisfactory a few years back, meeting most communities' needs for books periodicals, and even DVD's and music CD's. Problems have set in with inflation and Governmental fiscal cutbacks that restrict a library's buying power. So library's are having to pay more for books with less of a budget than before. While DVD's and CD's have faded, most library's are using one of the services that offer streaming books, music and film/tv media. The cost of those services have risen. Also library's have become havens for those without computers usually having several stations for use by the general public.
Along with dramatic cuts in Federal, state and local government funding, library's are also forced to deal with a homeless element in some areas, or to serve the needs as an afterschool shelter for youth. which requires more staffing.
There has been a rise in the attempt at book banning across the country usually provoked by a minority seeking to prohibit access to books based on sex, LGBQT, race, or some other complaint. The complaints can be initiated by a very small minority but can drain funds, time, and morale of the staff having to deal with the issues.
Just a few days ago, the largest business distributor of books to libraries folded, leaving libraries scrambling to find other sources. Until the interruption in supply prompted by that crisis resolves, there will be delays in accessing books for some institutions. And as company's step in to replace the lost services one expects there will be a higher premium charged.
That is just some of what many U.S. libraries are facing right now. Future issues may include security, and more individual fees required for services.
The problem is that certain clientele served by libraries, youth and elderly, and disabled may be most affected by future policies and least able to afford the lost services.
Kathleen wrote: "I buy very few new books, but I do frequent library sales and find many new, barely read copies there. I think there must be people buying them, even if they give them away without reading them! ..."This used to be the source for many people and IMO, helped promote reading. All the thrift sales allowed readers to access books at a bare minimum and many of those readers were kids. I can't tell you how many boxes of books I picked up at auction as a kid or through sales as you mention and parents wouldn't balk at buying the kids a few books at a benefit sale because the cost was minimal. Take a look around you next time you are at a sale and you'll see people with scanners checking the book for resale values and in some cases even preempting the sales through arrangements with the sellers. That practice exploded with Ebay and Amazon type services which has pushed the price of used books far higher than what they were previously.
Sam wrote: "Take a look around you next time you are at a sale and you'll see people with scanners checking the book for resale values and in some cases even preempting the sales through arrangements with the sellers. That practice exploded with Ebay and Amazon type services which has pushed the price of used books far higher than what they were previously."Yes--I've noticed and been infuriated. They are shameless about it, too, giving the excuse that "we all need to make a buck." This, and everything you outlined about what U.S. libraries are facing now has me very concerned.
I will say it's comforting to be able to come here and find others with similar concerns.
Klowey wrote: “As more and more AI is used for Internet searches, etc. the AI “chats” will begin to learn on AI-generated content.”This is called ‘model collapse,’ and it’s been a big discussion in AI-related circles for a little while now. I don’t know that anyone has found anything approaching a solution, but I attribute that to the fact that the AI community is much more interested in producing hype than it is in producing solutions.
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Greg wrote: “I think for me, reading is not fundamentally solitary. Yes, when I read, I am alone. But when I think about books afterwards, I do that with other people. . . . Enriching my relationships with other people and with the world is pretty much my main point in reading nowadays.”
Same, and this is ever more the case for me. Lately it seems like at least 75% of what I read is either for book groups or for a real-life buddy read that I’m doing with someone. The reading is the tree, and the discussions are the fruit. I’m happy with just the former, but really I’m always hoping for lots of the latter.
"Voting started on: Oct 15, 2025 12:00AM PDT"
more than 24 hours ago.... and I am still the only to vote?
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/3...