Dickensians! discussion
This topic is about
Martin Chuzzlewit
Current Group Read
>
Martin Chuzzlewit 3: Chapter 21 -
I really thought this chapter emphasized the word "outlook". Mark was keeping what he learned about Eden from Martin and already knew it wasn't going to be pretty. I love the way he turned the dismal looking shack into a suitable habitation and used his positivity to convince Martin that it's all in how you look at it. Mark was encouraging Martin to write letters and make this "season" as well as he can. Basically trying to help him understand that the situation can get better if they make it. This was almost worst than all, for if he began to brood over their miseries instead of trying to make head against them there could be little doubt that such a a state of mind would powerfully assist the influence of the pestilent climate.
And Mark referencing that this is a "season" is biblically referenced from Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 which says "For everything there is a season and a time for every matter under heaven..." The underlying message being that God's sovereignty is over these life events and He is in control.
This is actually my favorite chapter so far.
I enjoyed the chapter too, but the sickness in the area is almost a bridge too far for me. We've heard no one comes back from there alive, and almost all there are sick and so many already buried. It's one thing to face the struggles of survival in a rugged area with little money or prospects. It's another thing to face deadly illness. Are we to hope that they just get lucky and not succumb the way most of the others have? It seems to me they should get out asap!
I totally agree that the death and sickness at arrival is horrifying for them. It reminded me of pioneers who were immigrants who came to America to settle untamed land. So many died but some did survive by the sweat of their brows and through hard work and determination. It seems Mark knows that they must decide now to be positive about this and not be fatalistic. But I’m with you, Kathleen, I’d leave and not stay! But then our hero wouldn’t be able to endure through trials.
I'm going to join in and agree with John and Lori in saying that this chapter is the most memorable one so far.For me, it is a vindication of Dickens' opinions of the depressed, dirty passengers he travelled with on the steamboat down the Ohio River. When we were reading American Notes, I was pretty vocal in expressing my displeasure that Dickens didn't understand what these pioneers were going through.
In reading this chapter, it felt like Dickens was remembering that old woman whose family sat her down in the rocking chair at the edge of the river and who Dickens kept his eyes on until she disappeared from sight. This chapter feels like Dickens was paying tribute to her and to all the other pioneers he met on his travels. He understood that these passengers had also fallen for the promise of Eden and had traded everything they had for the "paradise" Martin and Mark experienced. My heartfelt gratitude to Dickens for writing this scathing chapter on another example of greed in American history!
Regarding Mr. Bevan: Was he part of this land scheme, and would he have received a commission for every trusting rube he introduced to the General?
Regarding Mrs. Hominy: I thought her name was so perfect because, to those who have never tasted hominy, it is definitely an acquired taste. It was a one and done dish for me... kind of how Mrs. Hominy affected other people. I will say that I was surprised that someone with so many airs would be content to live in the ludicrously-named New Thermopylæ. I did find it interesting that the Battle of Thermopylae is described as "the battle that became a symbol of courage, strategy, and resistance against tyranny." That would describe most of these Edenic pioneer settlements.
This was just a great chapter on the American pioneering experiment, and I hope that Mark can figure out a way to either get them out of it or prosper in it!
I suppose the Eden residents were suffering from malaria. I didn't realize that it was still attributed to "night gases" at this time, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. In Dickens' time, many were still getting their medical knowledge by stealing corpses to study and experiment on. Martin and Mark will be lucky indeed if they are able to avoid infection!It will also be interesting to see if Mark's commitment to jollity can withstand this Herculean task! I'm a pretty laid-back, upbeat person, but I have to admit--I would have been on the floor, crying with Martin in this situation!
Does anyone else feel that Mark either knew or had a strong suspicion, from the very beginning, that they were being scammed? I'm just trying to figure out why he wouldn't try harder to stop Martin from committing to the scheme. He does make the sarcastic remark about the buildings "growing spontaneously" due to the fruitfulness of the soil, and he realizes that Martin would prefer him to be a silent and "sleeping" partner. But why does he stand back and let Martin get them embroiled in this? He is contributing the lion's share of the money. Is it due to the class issue and, despite their "partnership," he still feels compelled to defer to Martin, his social superior? Or am I giving him unearned credit for perspicacity? Just curious if anyone else is wondering about this!
Cindy, I don’t think Mark was aware of the scam. However, after they bought the land and he learned that no one came back alive, he became very skeptical. I think this is what he kept from telling Martin. Sadly his skepticism is found to be true. Mark certainly has his work cut out for himself in the jolly department. I think this may be a chance for Martin to learn that hardships can make you stronger. I think we all believe hardships must be coming.
Take Tapley out of the picture, and the place becomes Hades and it might have been the first horror chapter in the history of literature. But there's no denying that Tapley can light up the place.
Cindy, I agree with your questions about Mark... was he suspicious of a land scheme, and if so, why didn't he warn Martin. I also have wondered about this. I do think Mark was suspicious of something when they went to visit Scadder, and Scadder in turn, turned his head to keep an eye on Mark. But I doubt that Mark suspected that Eden would turn out to be something as awful as undeveloped swampland.So the question is "why didn't Mark pull Martin aside and share his suspicions?" I agree with you that it could be a class thing, where Mark deferred to Martin as his social superior. Or, could it be that Mark saw another opportunity to put himself in a position where he could test his ability to remain jolly, as Lori pointed out, through all adverse circumstances. The only misgiving I have about the latter answer is I don't think Mark would deliberately put Martin in a terrible situation for his own selfish reasons.
Hopefully, Dickens will clear this up for us.
Let’s consider two illustrations. First, if we look back to yesterday we see Martin in the land office looking at a map of Eden. The map is large, detailed, and covers much of the wall. The overall suggestion from the illustration is that Eden is an impressive place. We note that Martin is well-dressed. On the shelf above the map is a ledge. As noted yesterday on the ledge we noted a mouse and a mouse trap, duck decoys, and there was a spider web in the upper left corner. These objects were proleptic (a fancy word for images that suggest something to come). Browne created yesterday and today’s illustrations to compliment each other and further evolve the letterpress. Today’s illustration shows the reality of what was projected by yesterday’s illustration. Eden is not as advertised. Martin and Mark were trapped, fooled, taken for fools. We can note that Martin and Mark’s clothes are now in poor shape. The dwellings are ramshackle. While there is a sign that identifies their architectural firm is in business, there is no business. This fact is the architectural implements are found on the tree stump in front of Martin. They sit useless and unattended. In Mark’s hand is an axe. He is trying to hew trees in order to bring order into the chaos of Eden.
John, how interesting to compare Martin and Mark to Dante and Virgil! Thank you for the list of gloomy descriptors :) Indeed, I think this chapter is chilling. Imagine finding yourself in such a place and knowing you have no plan B, this is your home now 😨
Luffy, 'Speaks the Nightbird' seems to be an interesting book, thank you for the recommendation!
Speaking about books with swamps, how about a nice little tarn? (view spoiler)
That's from a slightly earlier story by an American author ;) (Speaking about horror).
Jodi, that's an interesting question! I have not seen it mentioned in literature that the character of Mark Tapley could be traced to a specific person, like some other characters in the book. But thinking about it, his energetic resolve reminds me a bit of young David Copperfield... cf.:
'I wanted to be cutting at those trees in the forest of difficulty, under circumstances that should prove my strength.'
And young David Copperfield tends to remind people of young Charles Dickens :)
Peter, thank you for reminding us of Milton's 'Paradise Lost'; we have already noticed allusions to it earlier, so, given the name of the lovely place :), this is a very pertinent reminder. Indeed, I think one can say that Martin's situation might have something to do with pride, and/or rebellion.Love your comment that Martin and Mark are facing all three conflicts at once, bravo! (And good luck to Martin and Mark!)
Lori, I'm glad you enjoyed this chapter! I said I am generally not a fan of the American chapters, but, like you, I do enjoy the Eden part. Thank you for explaining the Biblical reference to us!🌷
Kathleen of roses, I suppose Martin and Mark do realise they cannot offer architectural services to anybody in Eden, and are unlikely to get rich there, but the thing is, they've spent all their money on the property and on getting there. There is, as of now, no clear way out. That's the chilling part!
Shirley, I'm so glad you enjoyed this chapter, and that it even shifted your attitude to Charles Dickens a bit.Mr Bevan did not know anything about Eden!
Cf.:
"‘I can introduce you to the agent, sir,’ said the General. ‘I know him. In fact, I am a member of the Eden Land Corporation myself.’
This was serious news to Martin, for his friend had laid great stress upon the General’s having no connection, as he thought, with any land company, and therefore being likely to give him disinterested advice."
So, General Choke is part of the scam, as is, of course, Scadder the agent, but Mr Bevan is not!
Cindy, that's right, malaria or something of the kind is heavily implied.
I think Mark strongly suspected Eden to be not what it appeared on the map, to say the least. But remember how he tried to prepare Martin for what was to come, even when passing New Thermopylae, and how Martin reacted to this? Maybe Mark's sarcastic remark at the agent's was his way to check whether Martin was able to think critically, and seeing that Martin was not, Mark decided to just roll with it and hope for the best.
That said, Martin does have a good intuition, only he doesn't listen to it. Every time Mark tried to say something critical about Eden, Martin got really offended. Why would he, if he believed in their bright prospects? My interpretation is, he had his doubts all along, too, but seeing no other options, preferred to stifle them.
But I like the various versions that have been proposed by you and Lori, too: that Mark simply thought it inappropriate to advise Martin and/or to object to his plan, and/or that he thought it would be a really challenging opportunity to be jolly, so why shy away from it. All of these explanations might also be part of what is implied.
Plateresca wrote: "That's from a slightly earlier story by an American author ;)..."I stand chastised. I kind of remembered chronology after I posted, but I am not bothered to be corrected in this friendly and bookish company.
Peter, yess! Thank you for pointing out the contrast between the two illustrations by Browne. Indeed, the title of the first illustration, 'The Thriving City of Eden as it Appeared on Paper', already implies that we're going to see quite a different version of Eden 'in real life', doesn't it? And yes, the deterioration of Martin's style in all the illustrations is drastic. I notice also that poor Martin seems lost in the Eden scenery in the second illustration, it looks like the sedges have more life in them than he does. And yes, (though I am personally not in love with the metaphor), it seems that for Charles Dickens, hewing trees was a symbol for productive activity.
Thank you (once again) for your insightful comments! It's a pleasure to read them :)
We will start reading Instalment/Number X tomorrow, on Wednesday, and meanwhile, everybody is welcome to add more thoughts about what we've read so far.
Luffy, oh no, I didn't mean to correct you, not at all! You mentioned a book about a swamp, and I thought about other books with creepy bodies of water in them and thought of 'The Fall of the House of Usher', that's all :) Sorry if I explained myself badly🌷
Plateresca wrote: "Luffy, oh no, I didn't mean to correct you, not at all! You mentioned a book about a swamp, and I thought about other books with creepy bodies of water in them and thought of 'The Fall of the House..."Well you should rectify stuff if it's erroneous. Nobody in their right senses would take offense. Okay well I'm off to read some more MC.
I find myself wishing to review the chapter in American Notes that had the boat trip. I have lost track of that journey — possibly to Cincinnati, I think — but I would like to note in my mind disparities and similarities. If for nothing else, a view of a mind noting and then creating.
I’m looking forward to whatever comes next in Eden. I’m thinking there’s no where to go but up (hopefully) though I have no idea how Martin and Mark will do it. I have a feeling that Mark will be a power or instigator behind any improvement in their situation.When Martin and Mark left the town of Thermopylae behind on the way to Eden, I was struck by the similarity to Dickens’ mention of the family let off his boat seemingly in the middle of nowhere. I remember that being such a powerful moment in American Notes.
John and Sue, thank you for reminding us of the corresponding part of 'American Notes'. Sure, it's interesting to see how Charles Dickens transformed his factual experiences into fiction. And, of course, we all want to know what happens to Martin and Mark next, but this is not what today's chapter is about %) We open Number X, which was published in October :) 1843, and...
Chapter 24Reports Progress in certain homely Matters of Love, Hatred, Jealousy, and Revenge
Summary
Old Martin is still knocking at Pecksniff's door. Pecksniff sends Tom to his daughters with the message of 'Silence!', and closes the door on Jonas, then opens the door to Mr Chuzzlewit and Mary, pretending he was gardening. They are confused: they thought Tom was to arrive before them and announce their visit; Pecksniff says he sent him away immediately to ask about the health of Charity, who is unwell. Tom enters and is introduced in Pecksniff's 'kindest accents'.
Old Martin says he was shocked on hearing of his brother's death. Pecksniff sees an opportunity to introduce the topic of Jonas, whom he was ready to 'cast overboard', and says that he and Jonas cared for Anthony during his last days. Martin is doubtful that Jonas could be 'a pattern to all sons', as Pecksniff represents him.
Pecksniff goes to fetch Jonas and tries to teach him to produce a favourable impression on old Martin. When Jonas comes, Martin asks him if he had, indeed, been a dutiful son. Jonas suspects some kind of accusation, and retorts that he was as good a son as old Martin was a good brother.
Pecksniff tries to pretend they're all a merry party, but Charity is outraged, Merry is not above provoking her, and Jonas is insolent to Tom and Mary, so it's not easy. After dinner, old Martin wants to return to the 'Dragon' and asks that Tom Pinch light them home. Tom is very nervous to be next to Mary. On their way, Martin asks Tom about Pecksniff; Tom replies in his usual respectful and grateful way, and Martin suspects he is a sycophant.
While Tom is on his way back to Pecksniff's, he meets Jonas. Jonas suspects Tom might have been telling something unpleasant about himself to old Martin. He is insulting Tom and even threatening him, while Tom keeps his dignity. Jonas proceeds to insult young Martin and even Mary, and when Tom tries to just walk past him, Jonas flourishes his stick over Tom's head. Tom apprehends him, and Jonas is hurt.
'He flourished his stick over Tom's head; but in a moment it was spinning harmlessly in the air, and Jonas himself lay sprawling in the ditch', by Fred Barnard
Image from the Victorian Web, scanned by Philip V. Allingham
They walk back to Pecksniff's, where Jonas says he ran against a tree. Pecksniff and Mercy fuss about him.
Balm for the Wounded Orphan, by Phiz
Image from the Victorian Web, scanned by Philip V. Allingham
When everybody retires to their rooms, Charity comes to Tom and asks him if he hit Jonas. Tom says he was 'very much provoked'. Charity says she is his friend from this time, and leaves. Tom is upset that the family is thus divided. He is surprised Jonas didn't tell anybody about their fight. He is sad he hit Pecksniff's friend. Also, he's hopelessly in love with Mary.
Later, he tries to talk to her about Martin, but somehow she always manages to avoid being alone with him, so he's not even sure they're still engaged.
Meanwhile, old Martin asks Merry if she is forced to marry Jonas, and tries to talk her out of it. She is, as usual, giddy and facetious, and repeats that she marries Jonas to tease him.
When old Martin leaves, Jonas finds Merry and questions her about this talk, and whether old Martin is going to give her a nice wedding present. He asks her to set the date of the wedding for next week; she sets it for next month. When she goes away, Jonas promises himself he'll have his revenge on her.
Misc Notes(As you all know), a wife could not appeal to the law to defend herself against her husband because by marriage, the husband and wife were one person in law. A woman's property belonged to her husband, and divorce was virtually impossible.
Dutch drops were an aromatic medicinal preparation applied externally to heal wounds. The ingredients were oil of turpentine, tincture of guaiacum, nitric ether, succinic acid and oil of cloves.
---
Commentary on Phiz's illustration from the Victorian Web:
'Phiz has depicted the room in Pecksniff's house in the little Wiltshire village which serves as the backdrop for the action. We have seen it, decked out as a museum to likenesses of Pecksniff and his architectural drawings, before, in Meekness of Mr. Pecksniff and his charming daughters (initial instalment: January 1843), Mr. Pinch and The New Pupil on a Social Occasion (third instalment: March 1843), and Mr. Pecksniff Renounces the Deceiver (fifth instalment: May 1843). However, each instance seems to reveal another aspect of architectural conceptions of the designing architect — here, for example, images of churches (centre, rear) have replaced those of engines, monuments, and a factory or poor house (Chapter VI, March 1843), as Tom lives the Christian message of forgiveness and charity, even to one's enemies.'
Commentary on Barnard's illustration from the Victorian Web:
'To tighten up the composition, Barnard has placed the fallen Jonas at the base of the stile rather than in a ditch nearby, and emphasized the forest ("a plantation of young firs") backdrop so that scruffy, dark-haired Jonas exemplifies base instinct, whereas blonde, slender Tom, left fist clenched, standing above Jonas exemplifies north European, "civilised" man; however, the picture may also imply a Miltonic connection as the Satanic Jonas seethes with resentment at having been bested by the angelic Tom, as in William Blake's depiction of Satan exposed in his true form by the touch of the archangel Gabriel, in Paradise Lost, Book V, Adam and Eve Sleeping (1808).'
I suppose Philip V. Allingham means this illustration:
(Image from Wiki)
With this, I officially announce the meeting of the Tom Pinch Fan Club open :) As I expect that fellow fans will have a lot to say about Tom's confrontation with Jonas.Non-Pinch comments are welcome, too, of course :)
Plateresca I would love to be part of the Tom Pinch Fan Club. Count me in!This chapter is jam packed with detail, character revelation and development, symbolism, and, of course, wonderful illustrations. I thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated your posting of the ‘Adam and Eve Sleeping’. Just as Campbell’s theory of the Monomyth offers an insightful method to consider how a broad range of Literature can be seen as having similar origins and patterns, so does art, architecture, and music find reverberations throughout history. E. M. Forster’s directive to ‘find connections’ always is in the front of my mind.
And talking about connections and symbols … I’d like to talk about grass and turf. I don’t think it is by chance that Dickens sets the scene between old Martin and Merry in the churchyard. This scene greatly enhances our understanding of both characters. We learn more aboutMartin’s character and discover how distasteful Merry finds Jonas. Her situation, we see more clearly, is because of convention, filial relationships, and her own rather nasty, bitter personality.
We note that Martin ‘took his seat upon the turf beside her.’ As their conversation begins, Martin Sr. probes Merry’s true feelings towards Jonas. We read she nods her head ‘shrewdly’ and ‘[plucks] up the grass’. Next Merry ‘threw the grass about’ ‘and looked another way’
As the revealing conversation continues Chuzzlewit urges her to ‘look about you’ and he then ‘[points] to the graves’. Later, after Chuzzlewit continues to implore Merry to reconsider her decision to marry Jonas, Dickens writes that she ‘pouted, and looked down, and plucked the grass, and shrugged her shoulders.’ The conversation continues and Merry ‘tore the grass up by the roots.’
I see the ‘grass’ scene as one where Dickens portrays the inner turmoil, anger, and frustration of Merry’s position. That the conversation is set in a churchyard is perfect. Both weddings and funerals are conducted from churches. Dickens then has Chuzzlewit leave the scene and Jonas enter.
Merry refers to the approaching Jonas with the name Griffin. Wow! What’s up?
message 75:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Oct 08, 2025 12:14PM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
Plateresca wrote: "Meanwhile, old Martin asks Merry if she is forced to marry Jonas, and tries to talk her out of it. She is, as usual, giddy and facetious, and repeats that she marries Jonas to tease him."I give up!! I'm hopelessly confused as to motives. Why does Jonas want to marry Merry and why is he in such a hurry to set the date for next week? Is he in such dire financial need that the promised dowry of 4,000 pounds is the sole motivation? I'm inclined to believe that Merry's hatred and expressed disgust for Jonas are genuine so why is she so willing to marry him ... eventually? Does she believe that Jonas is the legatee of a major bequest from Anthony's estate?? And, last but not least, why is Martin so keen to dissuade Merry from entering into what will clearly be a loveless marriage?
Peter wrote: "Her situation, we see more clearly, is because of convention, filial relationships, and her own rather nasty, bitter personality...."I agree, Peter, that Mercy does not love Jonas and her acceptance of him is based on more practical reasons. Although she is not without admirers (i.e., her fan club at Todgers), none of those men were as financially desirable as Jonas. The truth was that in that time, a woman's only way to avoid becoming an object of pity and scorn was to marry. Jonas is a nice prize for Mercy (assuming that he HAS inherited his father's business and money, which is still not substantiated) and can provide her with a comfortable lifestyle, which is her main concern. However, like many young, foolish girls, she has mistaken the man's "courtship" behavior for his real personality and believes that Jonas will continue to remain good-natured and indulgent to her needling and insults after they are wed. She is supremely confident of her ability to control him and have whatever she wants. Clearly, Jonas has other ideas!
Martin's intervention in her engagement and attempt to warn her off tells me that Pecksniff's attempt to present Jonas as a "pattern" of an admirable man was not successful. Martin saw through the charade. This is not very surprising, considering how very odd Jonas must have looked when he exhibited "so singular a mixture of defiance and obsequiousness, of fear and hardihood, of dogged sullenness and an attempt at cringing and propitiation" (370). How does one even DO that??? It must have been quite interesting to see!
I would also like to join the Tom Pinch Fan Club! Holy cow, I never suspected Tom of being a ninja!! He's definitely got the moves though--one moment Jonas is standing threateningly over him and the next he is lying on his back in the ditch with a busted head! It was well-deserved and I applaud Tom. I am so glad to see that he can defend himself when necessary, and that he has boundaries. I was worried that he would allow himself to be taken advantage of by everyone!
I am curious about Jonah's silence about the fight. Is he embarrassed that he was bested by such a poor creature as Tom? Does he want to keep his attempt to get information about old Martin out of Tom quiet? I feel like he could have made up whatever story he wanted about the fight, placing all the blame squarely on Tom, and Pecksniff would have sided with him no matter how ridiculous it sounded. Perhaps Jonas does not feel as certain about that.
Cindy, I wondered about Jonas’ silence as well. He’s definitely up to something. I beginning to believe he’s “all show and no substance.” It seems everything he does is for attention. He’s not a catch for marriage and Old Martin doesn’t seem to think he’s worthy either. Maybe he didn’t say anything about the fight because he wouldn’t have been the one seen with the upper hand?One other thing I am wondering about is what Tom Pinch meant when he said he “was under obligations to Pecksniff which the devotion of a lifetime would but imperfectly repay.” I think someone may have brought this up previously, but could this imply that Pecksniff has a hold over Tom? What’s the story here?
And consider me a member of the Tom Pinch Club!!! He was awesome!! I only wish he’d told Cheery proudly rather than apologizingly that he caused Jonas’ injuries. Her reaction helped Tom feel better about it!
Oh my goodness, Tom Pinch! Yes, please add me to the growing list of members in the Tom Pinch Fan Club! Who would have ever suspected what lay beneath the surface of the mild-mannered Mr. Pinch!I do find it so interesting that Phiz has continually illustrated Tom as an awkward, plain-looking young man. And yet, in this chapter, Fred Barnard illustrated him as a confident, virile, handsome young man… almost as Tom’s alter-ego, although I doubt very much Tom would have seen his alter-ego in that light.
Thank you so much, Plateresca, for posting this illustration as well as the commentary about it. They helped me to hope that Tom would mature into a confident young man that Mary Graham could love. This passage made me so sad for Tom, when he was listening to Mary sing one evening, “must not that [friendly] glance have read perforce the dawning of a story, Tom, that it were well for thee had never been begun! It left me no hope for Tom, but hopefully Fred Barnard was subtly telling us “don’t despair for Tom yet!”
I have noticed so many surprising changes in some of the characters so far:
Old Martin Chuzzlewit - from the overbearing miser at the Dragon to a kind uncle who is trying to prevent Mercy from making a bad marriage;
Young Martin Chuzzlewit - from a self-centered, spoiled young man to a more introspective, less confident one;
Tom Pinch - as we have just seen. And Cindy, I LOVED your referring to Tom as a ninja! That was awesome! LOL
So far, all of the changes have been for the good, and it’s something I’m hoping will continue.
Lori, I wonder if Tom feels so indebted to Pecksniff because the latter elevated him out of the servant class (wasn’t his grandmother one of Pecksniff’s servants?) And in the Victorian era, rising another rung on the social ladder would have been huge!
Shirley, that would make sense. I have forgotten that about his relative. Thanks for reminding me. I see his devotion to Pecksniff does have meaning behind it.
Lori wrote: "Shirley, that would make sense. I have forgotten that about his relative. Thanks for reminding me. I see his devotion to Pecksniff does have meaning behind it."His devotion does have meaning, Lori, and sadly, old Martin Chuzzlewit did not understand it and just saw it as groveling for favors.
I had to play catch up again reading 4-5 chaps today!! I felt as dismal (and bored, if I am being truthful) as we traveled with Martin & Mark down the river as Dickens described the increasingly disappointing "shantytowns" & environs. Loved the writing, just this part of the story left me cold. Maybe because there are so few likeable characters to root for. And then we get to Chap 24, and I perked right up as the interesting relationship dynamics unfolded and back to my (& s many others) favorite character- the surprising Tom.I wish Merry DID feel she had a choice not to marry Jonas. She's a twit but even a flighty girl doesn't deserve a husband who is eager to put her in her place. Unhappiness and misery would surely follow. Martin C Sr's attempts to dissuade Merry from this marriage did seem out of character for him. That entire scene puzzled me.
And what DOES Jonas have up his sleeve that he didn't take the opportunity to accuse and disparage Tom in front of the family?
Peter, thank you for mentioning E. M. Forster, another favourite author of mine! You've made many interesting observations here. Indeed, the scene between Old Martin and Merry is poignant. He's giving her a chance to reconsider, while she pretends not to understand his meaning. She is, after all, a young and silly girl who does not know much about life :( It's sad how everybody more or less understands where this is going, and still she's going to marry Jonas. And we're not even talking about her being the star of Todgers's, and him looking like he could be her grandfather.
Here is an illustration of this scene by Fred Barnard:
Image from the Victorian Web, scanned by Philip V. Allingham
Allingham's headline for his notes (which contain spoilers) is 'Memento Mori'!
Jean, exactly :) I expect there to be a correlation between Betsy Trotwood's fans and Tom Pinch's :)
Paul, those are all valid questions, and we've thought about them, and the honest answer is, we can't be sure. But here is what we've come up with so far...
Why we think Merry and Jonas are marrying each other, recap
Merry: Tired of living with her father and sister; not sure anybody else will want to marry her soon, given her situation; is likely sure that any marriage is better than none. Again, if her father remarries, who knows how the new stepmother will treat his daughters? And judging by Pecksniff's drunken behaviour at Todgers's, this is not an impossibility.
Remember how Mercy is never above teasing her sister? It looks like she marries Jonas partly to spite Charity. She's young and silly, she really doesn't understand that Jonas won't be as obedient to her after the marriage as he is now.
Jonas: It is highly unlikely he will find another father willing to pledge his daughter to him. He is rich, but also greedy, so getting more money is always on his mind. Now that the courtship has gone so far, he is likely seeing this as a challenge and is probably very looking forward to getting even with poor Merry after the marriage. The way Jonas treats Tom (I mean, not only the attempted attack, but also how he is contemptuous to Tom at dinner), and Chuffey reveals he might have sadistic traits.
So, why does Jonas want to set the date for next week? I think he's tired of being on his good behaviour and wants the farce to end.
Old Martin warns Merry against the marriage, why? I think it's because he views the situation more or less as we do: a silly young girl is marrying an uncouth, cruel, limited man her father's age. (Pecksniff is not stupid, and he's at great pains to conceal the real nature of Jonas; but old Martin is not stupid either).
Old Martin wants to know to what extent Mercy is influenced by Pecksniff in all of this, and to what extent she understands what will happen after the marriage; he tries to make her see that this is a bad decision, but it's not too late to change it. So, I'd say he is moved by pity and compassion.
I hope this helps :) Cindy has explained many of these points very well, and if I've missed anything about the motives of these characters, please, feel free to add to the list!
P.S. Re: loveless marriage. Well, we often say that Dickens is as much a Romantic as a realist, and here's a case in point: in his novels, people often marry for love. Nevertheless, this was not always the case in Victorian society, as I'm sure you well remember. Mutual respect was considered good enough or even better, but even the absence of it was not a barrier to marriage. But we really don't know how these two characters, Mercy and Jonas, feel about each other. Mercy is flirting with Jonas, is it possible that she is, at least, not repulsed by him? Is Jonas physically attracted to this young girl? Possibly.
Count me in for the Tom Pinch fan club. I’m looking forward to his future interactions with Jonas. Some surprises for me: Cherry’s confrontation with Tom about the wound on Jonas’s head. And then her obvious pleasure and silence. A new and unexpected person in Tom’s corner. Then Old Martin’s talk with Merry about her planned marriage. The Martin of the first chapter did not seem like a man who would have cared one way or another about Merry’s feelings or future. Now he seems to have her wellbeing high on his agenda…or perhaps he has concern about a newly liberated Jonas.
Cindy, nice point about the commercial gentlemen. I will only add that apart from their being less financially secure, there's another argument against all of them: none of them has actually proposed.And yes, thank you for mentioning Tom's self-defence! Like you, when I read up to this point, I was afraid Tom was going to succumb, and was happy Charles Dickens let him stand up for himself. Tom is non-violent, but firm and dignified.
As to why Jonas does not tell the truth about the fight: that's an interesting question, too! Again, we can't be sure, but what I think is this: yes, I'm sure he doesn't want to admit before Pecksniff and his daughters that he was bested by somebody as contemptible (in his eyes) as Tom Pinch, as Lori says, too. Also, I think he doesn't have enough imagination to invent a plausible story about Tom. If he were to start recounting the events, it would probably be obvious to everybody that he was threatening Tom, thus, that he is unsure of his position, and all of this would run contrary to the image of himself that he wants to preserve for now.
Lori, re: Tom's relationship with Pecksniff. The real story is this: Pecksniff led Tom's grandmother to believe that he would make Tom an architect, and pocketed a large premium for that. Pecksniff manipulated Tom into staying forever in his employment as his assistant, knowing that Tom was efficient and produced a good impression on people. But for Tom, it's quite another story. In his worldview, the great architect Mr Pecksniff took him in for less money than he could have got or that was due to him; educated him; gave him a nice job; and has always treated him kindly.
Here's a quote from Chapter Two:
‘What in the second place?’ cried Pinch, in a sort of desperation, ‘why, everything in the second place. My poor old grandmother died happy to think that she had put me with such an excellent man. I have grown up in his house, I am in his confidence, I am his assistant, he allows me a salary; when his business improves, my prospects are to improve too. All this, and a great deal more, is in the second place. And in the very prologue and preface to the first place, John, you must consider this, which nobody knows better than I: that I was born for much plainer and poorer things, that I am not a good hand for his kind of business, and have no talent for it, or indeed for anything else but odds and ends that are of no use or service to anybody.’
So, you see, Tom thinks very highly of Pecksniff, but is too humble and shy about his own merits. I suppose Pecksniff has consciously cultivated this attitude in him over the years. NB how Tom says Pecksniff allows him a salary!
Lori wrote: " I only wish he’d told Cheery proudly rather than apologizingly that he caused Jonas’ injuries."But, you see, he's not proud of that, because he is really, honestly, sorry to have hurt a friend of his beloved Pecksniff. He did what he thought was right, defending himself and the honour of Martin and Mary, but he never wanted to hurt Jonas. Oh, he's so noble, our Tom :)
Shirley, I was wondering if somebody would comment on Tom's good looks in the Barnard illustration, thank you for bringing this up!
Now, you see, Tom is really not good-looking in the book. More about it, no spoilers:
(view spoiler)
If Charity came to the conclusion that Tom had inflicted the wound to Jonas’s head, then I’m pretty sure Pecksniff must also suspect that. Merry might be too silly to pick up on what really happened, but I don’t think Charity is especially more intuitive than her father. This whole thing of Jonas lying about what happened, and Charity figuring out the truth worries me for Tom. I feel very uneasy about the whole situation.I think Jonas is more rotten than we know at this point. He’s cruel to Tom, I fear what he’ll do to Merry, and I’m pretty sure Dickens has been laying clues that Jonas is somehow responsible for his fathers death. He is a baaaaaad man!!
Tom's grandmother was ‘a gentleman’s housekeeper', so not just a servant (and not in Pecksniff's employment, I think), but the person who supervised other servants. NB: Dickens's paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Ball Dickens, was a gentleman's housekeeper.Theoretically, yes, if Tom became an architect after his apprenticeship with Pecksniff, he would have risen a class, exactly, Shirley. But, and this is an important but, he is not an architect (and we can suppose that he might have become one if he chanced on another tutor). Moreover, remember how Pecksniff sends him for the snuffers? It might be that Tom is often treated as a servant; and we can be sure that he's never treated as Pecksniff's equal.
So, you see, I think Victorian readers would not have thought Tom Pinch's situation terrible. But I also suppose they would have seen that Pecksniff is tricking him into believing in his own inferiority and in Pecksniff's greatness, while in reality it's quite the reverse.
Chris, I suppose (and hope) that all the rest of the book will be more interesting for you! Thank you for the effort to catch up, too!
I agree, Merry is silly, but nobody deserves to have Jonas for a husband.
Re: Old Martin. You see, we don't really know a lot about this character. He doesn't speak much on the pages of the book. Remember, in the very beginning, we were told he was often heard talking to Mary, and Pecksniff was trying to overhear their conversations, but did not succeed? So, what were they talking about? We don't know. Then we know he was friendly with young Martin until he was not; again, they must have talked about something. Then when we see him with Pecksniff, Pecksniff is usually doing most of the talking. Old Martin is often reticent.
So he has really gone out of his way to talk to Merry.
Re: Jonas's silence, I've written down what I think about it in msg 85. I've also mentioned somewhere that Jonas displays signs of sadistic behaviour. It might be that he expects to quietly get his revenge on poor Tom at a later point (the way he expects to get even with Merry after their marriage) and thus hurt him more than a reprimand from Pecksniff would... Which is an uncomfortable thought for us Tom Pinch fans.
Sue, of course, Cherry is happy that Jonas got hurt: he wounded her pride.Bridget, I agree 100%, Jonas is bad news for anybody!
The meeting of the Tom Pinch Fan Club has been delightful, as has been dutifully recorded in the minutes :) I knew you would love this chapter, and it was exceedingly pleasant to read all your lovely comments (I'm afraid I begin to sound like Tom's grandmother :)).
And now for something completely different :)
Chapter 25Is in part Professional; and furnishes the Reader with some Valuable Hints in relation to the Management of a Sick Chamber
Summary
Mr Mould the undertaker is relaxing at home, with his wife and two daughters. Tacker [Mr Mould’s chief mourner] comes to ask if he wants to take a cheap funeral; Mr Mould refuses. Tacker thought so much, but it's the beadle's son-in-law. Mr Mould agrees to do the funeral if the beadle attends it in his official uniform.
When he leaves, Mrs Gamp comes in. She compliments Mrs Mould on her youth, and remembers a talk she had about age with Mrs Harris. We are told by the narrator that Mrs Harris likely doesn't exist.
Mrs Gamp is offered a glass of rum. She goes on to explain, via another reference to Mrs Harris, how little she drinks, and then drinks the rum.
"Whether I sicks or monthlies, Ma'am, . . . . I do require it, which I makes confession, to be brought reg'lar and draw'd mild." — By Fred Barnard
Image from the Victorian Web, scanned by Philip V. Allingham
The reason she has come to see Mr Mould is this: her friend, a day nurse called Mrs Prig, has a patient in need of a night nurse, and Mrs Prig has recommended Mrs Gamp, but if the latter accepts, it means she would have to leave old Chuffey alone at night. Mr Mould sees no problem in this arrangement, as long as Mr Chuzzlewit doesn't know about it. Mrs Gamp is grateful; she assures him she will recommend him if this new patient dies. When she leaves, Mr Mould contentedly observes that she's the sort of woman 'one would almost feel disposed to bury for nothing'.
Mrs Gamp, meanwhile, is somewhat tipsy. She goes to the Chuzzlewit house and goes to sleep. In the evening, she wakes up, persuades Chuffey to go to bed, and goes on to her new job. It's at an inn called 'The Bull'. The sick gentleman is a former schoolfellow of John Westlock, but the latter knows very little about him. The patient is delirious. John promises to pay his expenses.
Mrs Gamp meets Mrs Prig. She is 'of Gamp build, but not so fat'; she also has a beard. She is in a hurry to leave. Mrs Gamps asks for instructions, and Mrs Prig tells her that pickled salmon is good at this place. She mentions the medical part 'cursorily' and leaves.
Mrs Gamp can't resist the temptation to see how her patient would look if laid out as dead. He is a young man.
Mrs Gamp orders some food and drink, has supper, and is very content. She makes herself a kind of bed in an easy chair and goes to sleep. During the night, the patient starts talking. She is angry with him. She prepares tea, while he continues raving. Finally, Mrs Gamp goes to sleep again, until she is awoken another time by the cry of 'Chuzzlewit'! The sick gentleman goes on to pronounce the name of 'Jonas', too.
When the doctor comes in the morning, Mrs Gamp says the patient talked 'middling', but 'nothing to the purpose'. When Mrs Prig comes to relieve her, Mrs Gamp recommends her to try the cucumbers.
Misc NotesThomas Moore:
'Every leaf was at rest, and I heard not a sound
But the woodpecker tapping the hollow beech tree.'
Mrs Mould changes the word 'beech' for 'elm'. Elm coffins were 'the most common item on the undertaker's bill', according to Nancy Aycock Metz.
---
According to the same source...
'Before the introduction of the Lucifer match in the 1830s, the production and sale of matches was confined to the children of the poor. The matches themselves were notoriously shoddy goods, made under grim circumstances from cheap materials. Typically, children worked late into the evening splitting strips of deal for dipping in pennyworths of brimstone. During the day, they hawked these matches about the streets. In contrast, the new Lucifer matches were factory-made. Only 'the best Norway deals' were used, and machines cut them cleanly into square-edged splints. Bundles of splints were transported to the dipping-house, where the tips were coated first with sulphur and then with phosphorus or chlorate of potash.'
---
"Contemporary advice literature stressed the importance of ventilating sick chambers thoroughly, warning that 'nurses... are often inattentive... to the regulation of their temperature, keeping up the fires, and especially at night; this fault often increases a patient's fever, which it puzzles the physician to account for'."
---
'<...> when Mrs Gamp, who partly earns her living watching over recently dead bodies, enters the premises of Mr Mould, the undertaker, 'a peculiar fragrance was borne upon the breeze, as if a passing fairy had hiccoughed, and had previously been to a wine-vaults'. The fantasy creatively participates in Mrs Gamp's endless fictionalising of herself. To be plain, she is an alcohol-saturated fraud, but Dickens would like to make something better of the evidence for this.'
From The Artful Dickens: The Tricks and Ploys of the Great Novelist by John Mullan
As Jean has mentioned earlier, Charles Dickens was known for his propensity to introduce new characters at various stages of his novels; and 'The Bull's Patient', as he is called in the running head, is not the last character we are introduced to in 'MC', as you might have guessed. Still, he is an intriguing one, isn't he? I suppoge you'll have something to say about this chapter, so, over to you!
Plateresca I enjoyed reading all the comments from yesterday’s chapter and must say three things. First, and foremost, what splendid preparations, research, and then follow-up to each of our comments you offer. You respond to each of us with grace and insight. Thank you. Second, what an incredible group of people are participating in the reading of MC. I am gaining insights into the novel every day. And, of course, Jean who is both bionic and magical. A tip of my hat to you all.Barnard’s illustration of Mrs Gamp captures her very well. With a glass in her hand, a smile on her reddened face, and a word or two from and to Mrs Harris, who could possibly be a better sick nurse? Another example of how good Dickens was at creating secondary characters in his novels.
We are left with the name of Jonas Chuzzlewit spoken from an invalid’s lips. Who exactly is this sick gentleman, how and why has Dickens introduced him into the story?
Dickens does know how to end a chapter, doesn’t he! I was glad to see John Westlock again. His presence gives me a more grounded feeling in questionable situations. I did wonder why he was at the place where the sick man was living since John didn’t know him. Does he do good works for people in need?
A mysterious chapter in which Dickens is keeping us in the dark about the sick man and how he is connected to the Chuzzlewits. Mrs. Gamp is an odd character for sure. Was she supposed to stay awake all night? I was unsure about that. She made up a bed for herself in the chair and promptly went to sleep! She’s definitely frightened by hearing the name of Jonas.I was also wondering what the big joke was at the beginning about the elm so I’m glad you cleared that up, Plataresca!
I have finally caught back up to the group and read all the comments. Too much ground to cover, so I will refrain from adding my thoughts on what has already been covered. I will say I find the American chapters (excepting the one in Eden) hard going and the ones in England enthralling. I am over-the-moon that Dickens allowed Tom to boink Jonas. And, I have developed hopes that Mary will decide she wants the finest soul on the planet and fall for Tom--sorry, Martin.
Peter, you are very kind, thank you! 🌷I absolutely agree, this group is special, thanks to Jean and to the wonderful people here :)
Mrs Gamp is the character Dickens intended to make a mark with! Here's another depiction of her:
Sairey Gamp by J. Clayton Clarke ("Kyd") for the watercolour series (1910): reproduced on John Player cigarette card no. 24
Image from the Victorian Web, scanned by Philip V. Allingham
The caption for this card reads: 'The greatest of all Dickens' great creations <...>'.
I don't really know if she is the greatest character in all of Dickens, but she definitely is picturesque! I'm happy to say we'll see more of her in the novel :)
As for the sick gentleman, well, we've often noted Dickens's wonderful coincidences; wherever they go, his characters are likely to meet somebody they know — an example of that was Martin bumping into Tigg on his arrival in London. Now it so happens that Mrs Gamp knows somebody who knows Jonas and also knows John Westlock! It's a small world :)
Sue, this is how John explains his connection to the sick gentleman:'I really know very little about him. We were school-fellows together; but since that time I have only met him twice. On both occasions I was in London for a boy’s holiday (having come up for a week or so from Wiltshire), and lost sight of him again directly. The letter bearing my name and address which you found upon his table, and which led to your applying to me, is in answer, you will observe, to one he wrote from this house the very day he was taken ill, making an appointment with him at his own request.'
So the sick gentleman knows John, but they're not close. Apparently, he wanted to talk to John about something, but then he got sick, and now we don't know what he wanted to tell John, or whether he will get well enough to tell this at all.
Lori, well, Mrs Gamp is hired to look after this patient, so, of course, it's expected that her attempts will be directed at making him comfortable, not herself. I guess nobody would mind her dozing off for a couple of hours, but generally, yes, she's supposed to look after the patient, probably administer medicine to him, try to alleviate his suffering, try to make the room temperature comfortable for him in his condition. Which is not quite what she's doing :)
Yay, Sara, I'm so happy to see you here again!
I do think the rest of the book will be an easier read, since there is more plot development from approximately these chapters.
Chapter 26An Unexpected Meeting, and a Promising Prospect
Summary
It was mentioned before that Mrs Gamp is renting an apartment from somebody who is a barber and a seller of birds. We are now told that the two occupations often go together. The name of this person is Paul Sweedlepipe, but everybody calls him Poll.
There are many different birds in Poll's house. He himself is a little elderly man with a shrill voice; he is compared, in turn, to various birds.
As he finishes his job and goes down the street, he runs into a young gentleman in a livery, who turns out to be the boy Bailey, who has left Todgers's and is now in the employment of somebody with dyed whiskers. Bailey looks very smart and is extremely proud of his new situation.
Paul says he is to fetch home his lodger: now that Jonas Chuzzlewit has married, he doesn't need the services of Mrs Gamp anymore, and Paul is to help her move. Bailey says he knows Jonas's wife, expecting her to be Charity.
When they arrive at Jonas's house, Bailey meets Mrs Gamp, and they seem to like one another. They have to wait for the couple to arrive. Bailey learns that Jonas has 'been and married the merry one', i.e. Mercy instead of Charity.
"There's nothin' he don't know; that's my opinion," observed Mrs. Gamp. “All the wickedness of the world is print to him." (1872). — By Fred Barnard
From the Victorian Web, image scanned by Philip V. Allingham
At last, the couple arrives. Merry seems tired, Mrs Gamp doesn't think she looks 'much like a merry one'. Jonas asks Mrs Gamp to leave. She does so, but first leaves her card to Merry, who is almost crying, hinting that Merry might soon need her assistance as a midwife.
Mrs. Gamp Has Her Eye on the Future by Phiz
From the Victorian Web, image scanned by Philip V. Allingham
Mrs Gamp leaves with Bailey and Paul. Merry is depressed by the atmosphere of the house; Jonas threatens her it'll get worse if she 'gives [him] any of [her] airs'. He tells her to ring for supper and leaves the room. While she does as he said, she is approached by Chuffey, who asks her if she is married. She says she married Jonas a month ago. Chuffey turns away, raises his trembling hands above his head, and says, 'Oh! woe, woe, woe, upon this wicked house!' This is her welcome home.
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
Martin Chuzzlewit (other topics)Martin Chuzzlewit (other topics)
Bleak House (other topics)
Little Dorrit (other topics)
Oliver Twist (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
John Dryden (other topics)John Forster (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
John Forster (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
More...
I’m glad Plateresca has reminded us of the concept of the Monomyth. Martin and Mark are certainly in the bowels of despair now, and much will be placed on the shoulders of Mark to move us along to the next stage. We should keep our eyes on the coming stages of Campbell’s Monomyth.
There is great irony with Dickens calling the end point of Martin and Mark’s minor odyssey by the name Eden. In John Milton’s ‘Paradise Lost’ Book One lines 254-255 Milton writes “ The mind is its own place and, in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven.” For Mark, Eden is a supreme test of his good humour and jolly nature; for Martin, the time in Eden could be the hell that breaks his spirit. Both men will face their greatest trial to date. Here, of course, Campbell’s Monomyth can be seen to be in play. How this trial is resolved may well determine how their future lives will be transformed.
In literature there are three major areas of conflict/test. Man vs Man; Man vs Nature; Man vs Himself. Here, in a place called Eden, Mark and Martin are facing all three conflicts at once.