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Martin Chuzzlewit 1: Chapter 1 - 10
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And I also like the idea that Robert William Buss may have had the Martin Chuzzlewit frontispiece in mind where he created it! Good thought Plateresca!
I think someone can be intelligent yet not know the ways of the world. My brother is a person like that and that is attributed to the singular way we both were brought up. I have found a way, but previously I was like Tom Pinch.
Sara, this is all very true! I find it sweet, though, that Tom doesn't notice either the inconveniences Martin puts him to or the Pecksniffs' begrudging him the wine :)
John, indeed, Bridget has suggested that one can go to Tom in a pinch, and I think one of the possible interpretations might also be 'a pinch of salt'-->'salt of the earth'.
I am afraid Tom has to be frugal: he would have loved to be able to buy a book, but he can't afford it; so it looks like he's not very well paid.
Shirley, I agree, Pecksniff's comments about Tom are condescending and disrespectful, and encouraging Martin to be the same with this very kind new friend.
I think Tom is definitely not stupid... We know he is observant (he enjoyed looking at people in the streets, and he also noticed the fact that there must be some Chuzzlewit-related intrigue); and yes, he plays the organ; and he thinks about others (he thought Martin might enjoy driving, among many other things). I guess he supposes the best about people, does not attribute any base motives to them, and some of them take advantage of this.
Paul, the elder Chuzzlewit is not present in this chapter, I suppose you mean Mr Pecksniff.
Otherwise, I partly agree with your interpretation. I mean, I still consider the instances Shirley mentioned as selfish, but maybe young Martin's selfishness is more easily atrributable to his youth and carelessness than to callousness, as in some other members of the family. And I certainly agree that we are in the very beginning of our acquaintance with all of these characters :)
Cindy, oh wow, in your dining room! What a splendid idea! How big is your poster?And oh yes, I certainly agree that even if we didn't like Tom from the start, we couldn't but fall in love with him after the bookshops scene :)
Jean, if this painting belonged to the 20th century, it surely would not have looked as incomplete. For the 19th century, this would certainly be very avant-garde, but then it does happen sometimes that an artist anticipates some tendencies by a century, so if art experts say (probably by the finishing of the layers, or something like that?) that it is complete, I can easily believe this, and thank you for this info!
Luffy, it's touching that you compare yourself and your brother to Tom :) I hope, then, that your kindness is more easily recognised and better appreciated.
Thank you for your lovely comments, everybody! I am really enjoying our discussion. I see that all or most of us agree that Tom is a darling; we feel protective of him and do not want him mistreated. We are not that united in our interpretation of young Martin, though, but we will know him much better in the chapters to come...
Time flies, though! It is already March 1843, and we crack open the third instalment...
Chapter 6 SummaryIt is the morning after the day of the new pupil's reception at the Pecksniff household. Tom is shocked by the Pecksniffs' unusual generosity at breakfast. Mr Pecksniff announces that he's going to London on business for a week, and he's taking his daughters with him. Mr Pecksniff, knowing that Mr Pinch received a letter from John Westlock [his former pupil, the one from Chapter 2], alludes to this person as 'an ostrich, and not a human pupil'. He tells Martin to design a grammar school building as his home assignment. He then talks to Martin in private about something personal, and Martin seems saddened by this conversation.
Tom asks the Pecksniffs to give a letter to his sister to save on postage expenses. Mr Pecksniff agrees, while his daughters make fun of Miss Pinch, unbeknownst to Tom; he thinks their merriment is a sign of their favour, and he also thinks he's lucky to be on such good terms with the new pupil.
When the Pecksniffs go away, Tom reveals to Martin that he's happy to have received that letter from John. Martin rains on his parade by saying that John is only being kind to Tom out of politeness, and can't really mean what he says.
At home, they finish the remains of yesterday's dinner and sit before the fire; again, Martin is occupying most of the space, and Tom isn't complaining.
Mr. Pinch and the New Pupil on a Social Occasion, by Phiz
From the Victorian Web, image scanned by Philip V. Allingham
Though the food and the wine are subpar, Tom is enjoying them so much that even the most cynical person in the world would smile upon seeing him. Martin laughs at Tom, and Tom is glad that Martin seems to be cheering up.
Martin tells Tom that he was brought up from childhood 'with great expectations'; it was supposed that he would inherit his grandfather's money. We learn that Martin lost his parents when very young; Tom empathizes with this, as this is his own case, too, but Martin says he's not particularly sentimental about this point. He was brought up by his grandfather, whom he considers obstinate and selfish, unlike himself, according to him. Nevertheless, the two men seemed to have been attached to each other until Martin fell in love with a beautiful girl entirely dependent on his grandfather [we can deduce that he's talking about Mary]. The grandfather demanded that young Martin renounce Mary, or else be disinherited; but the more he urged, the more his grandson was determined to oppose him, partly because of his love for Mary, and partly because of what Tom calls obstinacy, and young Martin calls firmness. So the grandfather turned young Martin out. Young Martin found Pecksniff's advertisement without knowing that Pecksniff was a distant relative; but when he learnt who he was, he was even more intent on staying with him, because his grandfather hated Pecksniff, and he wanted to pique the old man. Martin expects to be able to afford to marry Mary at some uncertain point in the future.
Both young men understand that the beautiful girl who liked to listen to the organ is the same girl that Martin is in love with.
"It was she", by Harry Furniss
From the Victorian Web, image scanned by Philip V. Allingham
Martin asks Tom to read out loud to him so he can go to sleep. Tom is happy to oblige and brings a volume of Shakespeare. Martin soon falls asleep in front of the fire, and Tom sympathises with his troubles and reads on. He gets lost in the story and forgets to keep the fire up, so eventually Martin wakes up because he's cold and reproaches Tom.
A one-eyed almanac//calenderA calendar might, indeed, be similar to an almanack, but a calender, or qalandar, is a dancing dervish. You will remember how Dickens enjoyed the 'Arabian Nights' :) Mr Pecksniff probably means the tale where, left alone in a mysterious house, the hero is tempted to open a forbidden chamber, 'whereupon the powerful steed concealed within strikes out one of his eyes. He is thus reduced to the condition of the ten one-eyed men he had encountered earlier, about whose injuries he had been so curious.' (I am quoting Nancy Aycock Metz's 'The Companion to Martin Chuzzlewit').
Postage: until the rates were standadrized in 1839–1840, postage expenses depended upon the distance and the length of the letter, and were to be paid by the recipient. The Penguin Classics notes suppose Tom's letter could have cost him about nine pence, a significant sum.
I wonder if the currant wine of which Pinch drinks so much can be classified as grape wine.
I think I should change my moniker to "Chris, who is always behind"Chap 4 was hilarious to me with all the descriptions of the Chuzzlewit relatives and their incessant bickering.
Chap 5. I also was taken with the description of the horse in the beginning of the chapter. And this chapter placed me firmly on team Tom Pinch. His kindness and generosity of spirit, his joy in playing music, his appreciation for the small things in life and he's a reader! I hope that we find that he has a strength of will that we glimpsed when he stood up for Mr. Westlock in Chap 2; and that he is not just the doormat that Mr. Pecksniff seems to think of him.
Like Sue, I mentioned in a previous post that I thought we had been introduced to the protagonist when Old MC was introduced, so it was a surprise to me to read that the new pupil was named Martin Chuzzlewit!!
No comments on Chap 6 as I need to read today!! But as always enjoy the summaries and all the added information about the culture and references of the times.
Luffy, this was wine made from white, red, or black currants, and Metz comments that it 'could easily go awry in the fermentation process' %) If I understand your question correctly, no, this probably wouldn't be called wine nowadays if it were commercially produced, but this was something people made at home. (And Pecksniff 'knew the vintage'!).
Chris, actually, we keep coming back to the chapters we've read, so nobody really notices if one is behind; it's more important not to jump ahead :) Thus, I cannot comment on Tom's strength of will... but welcome to Tom's fan club, and my hunch is, you won't be tempted to leave it ;)
There is so much to enjoy and reflect upon when we look at this illustration. There is also the cleverness of this illustration’s content when compared to the analepsis that occurs with the earlier illustration titled ‘Meekness of Mr Pecksniff and his charming daughters. In this illustration we see young Martin sprawled in front of the fireplace, the dominant position in the room, a symbolically significant position in all of Dickens’s novels. Behind him, sitting on Mercy's stool is Tom. The stool, and Tom’s position, reminds us of the cart ride home where Tom was also inconvenienced and forced into a rather squished position in contrast to the comfort of Martin Jr. Note also the height of Pecksniff’s comfortable chair when compared to Pinch’s stool. Chairs tell us much about the meaning of any illustration/painting.
In the earlier illustration of the same room we see Pecksniff in his chair, and his daughters assuming an inferior position to both the fire and their seated positions. The room bears witness to Pecksniff’s ego. A picture of him and a bust all face his chair. Architectural renderings that are not his dominate the walls. Thus, it is possible that our early impressions of Pecksniff can be projected, at this point in the novel, to that of Martin Chuzzlewit Jr. While at times being gallant, we have already seen how Martin has disrespected Tom Pinch on more than one occasion. Perhaps this is partly due to Martin's youthful age, but a gentleman is a gentleman, regardless of the situation, his station in life or his title.
Martin is sitting Chuzzlewit’s chair. Early symbolism of what is to come?
I think the difference in attitude between Martin and Tom has a lot to do with their positions in life. Martin has been brought up in a wealthy household. The wealthy often assume that their comfort will always be attended to by others, without having any thought of what those others may be feeling. Tom, on the other hand, is used to being in the position of having to consider the needs of others before himself. This however, is not a denial of his kind nature. He could just as well be resentful of his position.I laughed at the mention of obstinance versus firmness. This is very human. Martin and his grandfather are both alike in this, but how a person views a trait often depends on which side they are on.
I am curious to see how young Martin's character develops. In this chapter, the thoughtless selfishness we discussed previously becomes even more egregious. As Peter points out in his comment on the illustration, Martin not only takes the most comfortable seat in the room, but also limits Tom Pinch's access to the warmth of the fire as he is forced to perch on a small footstool. Ultimately, Martin takes that away, as well, when he "makes himself as comfortable as circumstances would permit, by constructing before the fire a temporary sofa of three chairs with Mercy's stool as a pillow, and lying down at full length upon it" (105). I believe Tom struggles a bit in this chapter to fully support everything his new friend says. When Martin explains to him how his reaction to his grandfather's ultimatum was indicative of "a most determined firmness" and not obstinancy, Tom readily agrees, but sits "staring at the fire for some minutes with a puzzled look, such as he might have assumed if some uncommonly difficult conundrum had been proposed, which he found it impossible to guess" (102). He is willing to believe but struggles to make sense of it.
Even more hesitancy is expressed when Martin points out how undesirable it would be for him to be "plunging [himself] into poverty and shabbiness and love in one room up three pairs of stairs" (103). It is apparently only Tom who realizes that it would be unpleasant for the lady, as well. Martin explains that actually, it wouldn't be as hard on her because of her overwhelming love for him and because Martin is doing her such a tremendous favor in choosing her because he "might have done much better." Tom's difficulty with this arrogance is clear when "it was a very long time before Tom said 'Certainly'; so long, that he might have taken a nap in the interval, but he did say it at last" (103). This was a hard one for him to swallow!
Apparently, he does overcome whatever momentary doubts arise, because he is all sympathy for Martin's trials at the end of the chapter, but I'm curious to see how this plays out. I can still see Martin's selfishness and arrogance as a result of his upbringing but the question is whether he can change. We shall see!
I'm back! I agree with Peter about young Martin and was also struck by the illustration which was the second time in the short relationship between he and Tom that had hm in the more comfortable or dominant position than Tom. And I do think Katy's comments about their stations in life has a lot to do with Martin's behavior. Plus we have discovered that Martin had no other role models through childhood than his grandfather, and thus even though he doesn't think he has taken on any of his grandfather's traits or behaviors, he has. Or it could just be the blindness of youth.I do feel sorry for Tom who is constantly looked down upon, yet his nature seems to keep him from feeling that from those who do. He seeks the good in all and is grateful for what he has in the most positive way. If only we could all be that way. I certainly am a work in progress when it comes to giving grace to others instead of judgement!
I think I was writing at the same time as Cindy,. I appreciate the specific comments and actions made by Martin that supports your assessment of his character. I also am eager to see how his character matures.
I think Martin as a character is a bit of a problem, and the problem is how to make him loutish yet (view spoiler)Martin apparently in Chapter 6 shines by his cocooned aloofness and selfishness. Yet we are to believe he is redeemable.
The reason maybe why some people will expect Martin Jr. to turn over a new leaf is because it can be posited that the book is named after (for?) him.
He is handsome, talented, shows some signs of goodness. Yet his obtuseness sometimes rivals with that of Tom Pinch himself.
In fact, I find John Westlock more of a fascinating character than Martin Jr.
Given his future entries in this book that I'm rereading for the 4th time, I'd rather follow him as the main character.
I think Dickens painted Martin Chuzzlewit in a corner. But Martin Chuzzlewit cannot be a villain because I don't think Dickens has it in him to name his book after one. Dickens is 1980s Spielberg to what Shakespeare is to Tarantino, if such anachronistic similes are okay.
Luffy Sempai wrote: "I wonder if the currant wine of which Pinch drinks so much can be classified as grape wine."I actually enjoyed the subtle statement by Dickens that the currant wine could go easily, if unfortunately, to something like vinegar. I recall reading somewhere that old prized French wines, when opened at an expensive auction, actually tasted like vinegar.
John wrote: "Luffy Sempai wrote: "I wonder if the currant wine of which Pinch drinks so much can be classified as grape wine."I actually enjoyed the subtle statement by Dickens that the currant wine could go ..."
As a noob regarding wine, I did hear that older wine bottles didn't have the type of corks to seal the content better.
I also read in a book that there was a time when English wine actually had more prestige than French wine due to the climate at that time (maybe 13th century?).
Cindy - thank you for adding page numbers for the Penguin editions
Luffy Sempai wrote: "John wrote: "Luffy Sempai wrote: "I wonder if the currant wine of which Pinch drinks so much can be classified as grape wine."I actually enjoyed the subtle statement by Dickens that the currant w..."
If you want to read a fascinating old detective type story — actually a true account of old wines possibly fake — The Billionaire's Vinegar: The Mystery of the World's Most Expensive Bottle of Wine — is really good. I read it while on a trip to Albuquerque, New Mexico, fifteen years ago and enjoyed it.
Jodi wrote: "Cindy - thank you for adding page numbers for the Penguin editions"No problem! As a retired English teacher, I'm inordinately fond of text evidence and am completely subservient to MLA rules! This compulsion may ebb with the passage of time, but it's still strong at this point. :)
Question: are Tom and Martin the same age?
Having finished six chapters of our novel, I am having a hard time understanding why Dickens is making some of the authorial decisions he is making in this novel and I fear for us Dickens' fans that we might just start defending his writing rather than seek answers to what he is doing and why he is doing it. At present though he has changed several things that were previously effective in earlier novels and substituted in their place stuff that I feel is not working and the challenge right now for me is to try and see why he might be doing so. It may be too early in the novel to discuss this but I think it worth all our efforts to note and consider why certain choices are being made. Luffy's words about Dickens painting Matin into a corner are exactly my thought, but I see numerous examles of this and other what normally might be considered authorial missteps that challenge me to try and answer why is Dickens choosing to do this? Earlier I had mentioned wanting to pursue a theme that linked Dickens' villains with selfishness. That is a bit difficult here because almost every character is practicing a form of selfishness. It will be interesting to see how Dickens' gets around some of these early choices. Btw, is anyone noticing a surprising lack of warm sentimentality in the novel so far? That is a characteristic I find to ignore.
John wrote: "Luffy Sempai wrote: "John wrote: "Luffy Sempai wrote: "I wonder if the currant wine of which Pinch drinks so much can be classified as grape wine."I actually enjoyed the subtle statement by Dicke..."
Thanks for the rec. I will try to find an e-book version.
Sam wrote: "Having finished six chapters of our novel, I am having a hard time understanding why Dickens is making some of the authorial decisions he is making in this novel and I fear for us Dickens' fans tha..."Without going into spoilers, I think you are right about the lack of warmth among characters. Mr Micawber from DC probably lives in an alternate Victorian universe.
Peter, thank you for the detailed analysis of the latest illustration! (And, of course, you're very welcome to analyze the future ones, too :)).I agree, young Martin does not produce a favourable impression in this chapter :(
Katy, I agree with what you're saying about the Chuzzlewit character traits: it is obvious that both old Martin and his grandson are obstinate. It's interesting that Tom understands this immediately, too (another sign that he might be kind and meek, but not stupid!).
Cindy, oh yes, very well noted. Indeed, Tom seems to be more concerned for the young lady than Martin.
And, indeed, you're posing an excellent question: can Martin change?..
Chris, very perceptive! Indeed, this novel is concerned with nature & nurture, with how society generates its problems through bad upbringing, among other things. Even as early as these chapters, we're invited to notice the correlation between the grandfather's and the grandson's characters.
Luffy, while I cannot agree that Tom is obtuse, I cannot deny that Martin does not seem very sensitive at this point, at least not where it concerns others. It's an interesting point about John Westlock, though! Indeed, with his attack on Pecksniff and his attempts to raise Tom's self-esteem, he reminded me somewhat of Nicholas Nickleby.
Re: wine, to John and Luffy: My husband and I are wine lovers, so we've opened a lot of bottles, even not that ancient, that tasted like vinegar; storage conditions are very important to wine ageing, and even in the age of air-conditioned strorerooms, wine does go bad. But technologically, most wines that are produced nowadays are safe to drink when they're bottled.
Wine Storage 101: (view spoiler)
What I mean is, even now, even wine produced commercially is easily spoiled by improper storage and transportation; imagine then. I suppose a lot of what people were drinking would be considered undrinkable by modern standards.
A lot more things can go wrong with homemade products, at the production stage already! My understanding is, they were letting Tom drink that wine because they wouldn't want to risk drinking it themselves.
John, your question about age is not an easy one, because it seems Dickens himself was unsure of Tom's age throughout the novel. Cf. Metz: "[T]he manuscript shows that he was originally 'five and twenty'." In chapter 39, his age is either thirty-five or thirty-two, in different versions of the text. Pecksniff confusingly calls him 'Old Tom Pinch', although this might be just Pecksniff.My understanding is, in the original illustrations, Tom is older than Martin. Another indication that he might be older is this: he must have been apprenticed to Pecksniff as a young man, and then he saw other young men apprenticed, John Westlock one of them; so he must be older now than the usual young apprentice, including John and Martin.
Sam, why Dickens is not following the schemes that had worked so well for him earlier is another interesting question. What do you think of Arthur Quiller-Couch's attempt at explaining this? (Not spoilers, quotes from Q):
(view spoiler)
He then talks about how 'The Pickwick Papers' were an 'overwhelming success', and that Dickens felt 'a responsibility to improve, and how he always 'strove to make himself a better artist', so 'Oliver Twist' and 'Nicholas Nickleby' are quite different.
(view spoiler)
And yes, I agree that so far the novel is much less sentimental than many of Dickens's other works.
In this chapter, Dickens has given us many hints of what's to come, and we have picked up all or most of them. Once again, thank you, everybody, for your comments. Please don't be shy about adding your thoughts about the previous chapters!Also, people who have read this before, thank you for avoiding spoilers.
So, what happens next?! :)
Chapter 7 SummaryMartin enthusiastically works on his homework, an architectural project for a grammar school. He and Tom Pinch have become very friendly; they are both comfortable with Martin 'patronising' Tom.
While Martin and Tom are busy working, they are visited by Mr Tigg. Tigg says that Pecksniff was supposed to leave money for him and Chevy Slyme; Tom knows nothing about this. Tigg and Slyme need the money to pay the bill for their stay at the 'Dragon', otherwise Mark Tapley [whom we met in Chapter 5, when Tom was driving the gig] and Mrs Lupin [the owner of the 'Dragon'] won't let them go. Mark is invited in and confirms what Tigg has said, adding that Tigg and Slyme have been unpleasant guests, so he and Mrs Lupin want them to go, but, of course, they're not happy to let them go without paying. Tigg and Slyme said Pecksniff would pay their bill, but it is known that Pecksniff is away, so naturally, Mark and Mrs Lupin doubt this.
The debt is three pounds, which is a lot of money for Tom [see note below], and he doesn't have it. Nevertheless, Martin suggests they promise Mrs Lupin to repay this debt later on, to get rid of Slyme and Tigg.
They all go to the 'Dragon', and the business is soon settled, but Tigg insists that Martin and Tom meet Chevy Slyme. Slyme is drinking and being maudlin. He does not want to be 'obliged to two strangers for a tavern bill' and talks himself into a rage about this, ending by saying that he actually hates them 'to preserve [his] self-respect'. Tigg admires his 'independent spirit'.
Montague Tigg and Chevy Slyme, by Sol Eytinge, Jr.
From the Victorian Web, image scanned by Philip V. Allingham.
When Martin and Tom are leaving, Tigg detains Tom and asks him for an [additional] loan of three half-crowns (again, see my 'monetary speculations' below). Tom only has one coin, a half-sovereign [which is more], and it's all he has until the next payday [and paydays happen four times per year!], but he believes the loan will soon be repaid, so he lends the money and only worries that Tigg shouldn't forget the courtesy of 'esquire' when addressing his letter to Pecksniff.
Mark is leaving the 'Dragon', and Mrs Lupin wants to talk to him one last time about it. He is reluctant, knowing that part of him wants to stay. She is lovely, and he's tempted to stay, but he tells her plainly that although he likes her, he is also fond of change, so he is not sure that he can settle forever at the 'Dragon', and he doesn't want to make her miserable by marrying him and later suffering from his subsequent boredom. She understands his reasons and, although she's sad to let him go, she's also grateful for his honesty.
He goes away the next morning, trying to be jolly and being proud of it.
Note on MoneyNo spoilers, but maybe not everybody is interested. The gist of it is, what Tom and Martin promise to pay, and what Tom lends Tigg, is a lot of money for Tom.
(view spoiler)
---
Lord Wittington
A popular cameo in Dickens's novels; again, no spoilers here, but you don't have to read this.
(view spoiler)
'<...>I deeply appreciate his talent for the organ, notwithstanding that I do not, if I may use the expression, grind myself<...>'
This is probably evident, but I wanted to draw your attention to this, just in case. Tom plays the organ at church in their little village; but since the Salisbury Cathedral, also mentioned in the text, has a website, and we can actually see a photo of their organ, here's what it looks like:
Here's how it sounds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eytzl...
'Grinding the organ', however, refers to another instrument: a barrel organ.
Here's what it looks like (Wiki link):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_...
And this is how it sounds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zLU_...
Barrel organs used to play popular tunes on the streets of London. The organists would move from place to place, often playing as they walked with the instrument strapped around their necks. The organ was operated by turning the crank that rotated the wooden cylinder inside. Sound was emitted from the organ pipes. There was a crude volume control on the side of the case. Later in the Victorian period, middle-class Londoners campaigned against street organ music, which they regarded as noise pollution.
(According to London Museum).
So, you see, this is something much less respectable. I wonder if this is Tigg's sarcasm, or if he is, indeed, confusing the two instruments.
Further Notesprofessor of Taste
Not an academic title; this means 'Victorian influencer', somebody like John Ruskin... Slyme does not look like a Ruskin.
pink and pine-apple
Mrs Malaprop from Sheridan's 'Rivals' says: 'He is the very pine-apple of politeness!', meaning pinnacle. And Miss Nevill in Goldsmith's 'She Stoops to Conquer' says, 'She has been saying a hundred tender things, and setting off her pretty monster as the very pink of perfection.'
Peter the Wild Boy
Peter the Wild Boy (1713—1785) was a German boy who was found in 1725 living wild in the woods near Hamelin. He was of unknown parentage and had been living an entirely feral existence for an unknown length of time, surviving by eating forest flora; he walked on all fours, exhibited uncivilized behaviour and could not be taught to speak a language. It's been speculated that he suffered from the very rare genetic disorder Pitt–Hopkins syndrome.
Peter was found in the Hertswold Forest by a party of hunters led by George I while on a visit to his Hanover homeland and brought to Great Britain in 1726.
Wiki link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_t...
It seems an offhand remark, but scholars think it is not. We remember that Chapter 1 ends with an allusion to theories of Lord Monboddo and J. F. Blumenbach (Monboddo anticipated evolutionary theory by classifying human beings and 'ourang-outangs' as members of the same species, and Blumenbach drew comparisons between men and swine).
Nancy Aycock Metz, nature & nurture again: (view spoiler)
Mark Begins to be Jolly Under Creditable Circumstances, by Phiz
From the Victorian Web, image scanned by Philip V. Allingham.
Commentary on the illustration from the Victorian Web (no spoilers, but very detailed analysis):
(view spoiler)
And now I've finally added everything that I wanted to share :) Please forgive me if this is too much info, and, on the other hand, please don't be shy to ask questions; we'll try to unravel obscurities together (in fact, many readers here could write their own books ;)).So, over to you now: what do you make of this chapter?
Plateresca wrote: "John, your question about age is not an easy one, because it seems Dickens himself was unsure of Tom's age throughout the novel. Cf. Metz: "[T]he manuscript shows that he was originally 'five and t..."Thanks Plateresca. The conversations between the two seemed like conversations between contemporaries in age.
I felt like a bit of foreshadowing with a plant called “the American aloe.” Aloe does remind me of softness, which seems the opposite of Slyme. And Tigg does some sort of “ballet action” — apparently mimicking a flower? It seemed a hilarious action when hearing someone rail about having the worth of fifty uncles but cannot pay a tavern bill. I’d like to think all were aware of Christopher Marlowe’s fate over a tavern bill.
Hello Plateresca. Thanks for your copious notes on Chapter 7. Glad I know more about wine, and the delicateness of its storage.I think that as someone who until a few years back was socially inept in a way that reminds me of Tom Pinch, the drawbacks of being naive or call it what you will is a real disadvantage. I see Pinch as inept because he could not decipher the obvious glee and condescension of the Pecksniffs, nor could he interpret the reasons for the lavish meals and so forth.
In fact Pinch has some things going for him. Just as Pinch plays the organ, I too used to play the keyboards. But though he is not hamstrung in the way I was, I can't help but calling Pinch heavily disadvantaged socially.
Luffy, you're welcome! 🍷Having read a few articles on 'MC', I'm sure of one thing: whatever one thinks about this novel, one can find critical opinions both to support and to disprove this outlook. So whatever I say, feel free to disagree with me, please :) With this caveat, I'm afraid you're being a bit too hard on yourself, and on Tom as a result. Why, yes, the Pecksniffs do not treat Tom the way he deserves, I think we all agree on that. Still, Tom doesn't suffer because of this because he doesn't notice this; I don't think this is necessarily bad. And he has friends (we know of John, Mark, and the Salisbury organist's assistant); he is well-liked by people (e.g., the tollman and his family); and, however underpaid his job might be, it's still better than having no job at all. So his position is not perfect, but one can easily imagine worse, especially in the times we're reading about.
Which is not to say that we do not wish him a better job and a better boss, of course! :)
Now, the Tigg situation is another matter; I wonder what he would have done if Martin hadn't been there to give him advice.
Plateresca wrote: "John, your question about age is not an easy one, because it seems Dickens himself was unsure of Tom's age throughout the novel. Cf. Metz: "[T]he manuscript shows that he was originally 'five and t..."To go back to the previous chapter for a minute, I so appreciate the discussion of Tom's age, and that Sam brought up Dickens' authorial decisions and possibly different style in this novel.
I wondered about Tom's age when the illustration of him with Martin by the fire in Chapter 6 showed him bald! Thank you Plateresca for explaining the discrepancies within the novel.
And also thank you for sharing Arthur Quiller-Couch's explanation regarding novel-writing versus drama. I couldn't agree more! I was thinking earlier, but was hesitant to say, that I don't like the "dramatic Dickens" as much as the novelist Dickens. I do appreciate that he was always trying to improve, and of course we know he did! But too much of the overly-dramatic scenes and characters wear a little on me--his descriptions are so vivid, he really only needs a touch of this. But when he goes back to a focus on characterization and story, he wins me over again.
You can almost feel him experimenting as he writes this one.
Plateresca What a chapter and what wonderful additional information provided. First, the sound of the Salisbury organ. It must stir the souls of all those who have ever sat, looked around the cathedral, and heard its majesty. Much different from the barrel organ. Their presence on the streets of London added to the cacophony of every other sound. So much so, that one of Dickens’s other illustrators, John Leech, who did the illustrations for ‘A Christmas Carol,’ is thought to have committed suicide because of the incessant noise of the streets.
What a diverse group of characters we come across in the chapter. From the Pecksniffian Slyme world to the boyant positivity of Tom Pinch and Mark Tapley. Good verses evil in its raw form. When we see Mark Tapley, a symbol of good go forth into the world it has slight tinges of myth. A man of good entering the world of evil. The concept of good verses evil seems to be slowly integrating itself into the novel. Dickens is planting a major theme in our minds.
I agree with Kathleen that the chapter is rather over-the-top ‘dramatic’, and certainly too much is sometimes wearying, but I can imagine this chapter performed on a Victorian stage. I picture the Slyme and Tigg characters worming their way into the generosity and naive characters’ minds and wallets and then the excessive saccharine goodbye of Mark Tapley. What grand theatre. That said, I’m with Kathleen , please, Mr Dickens, not too much.
Finally, thanks for the link to the ‘Victorian Web’ commentary on the illustration. In detail, we see there the close link between Browne and Dickens and see a detailed analysis of an illustration.
John, I agree, it's not apparent that Tom is older, and it's probably because he wasn't always meant to be so.American aloe is, in fact, spiky (Wiki link):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agave_a...
But it looks like a bit of foreshadowing to me, too...
It blossoms once every eighty years!
Re: ballet of action. Metz: '<...> the manuscript has a phrase that was omitted in the published text: 'and I'll attack 'em in print somewhere' <...>. Tigg makes the motion of a boxer challenging his opponent to a fight, an allusion which makes more sense in the context of the unadopted phrase.'
Kathleen of roses, I also prefer Dickens the novelist to Dickens the dramatist.
Yes, one does feel he was experimenting... I also think, one feels he was having fun, too, and sometimes, it's contagious :)
Peter, I love your idea that Mark begins his hero's journey like a mythical figure! So true!
What do you think of Tigg so far, everybody?
Monod: '[O]ne finds an admirer and defender of Tigg in the person of Steven Marcus, who writes of him as 'one of Dikens's most seductive and amiable scoundrels' <...>. From his very first appearance in chapter IV, Tigg shows extraordinary verve and verbal gusto, almost to the point of appearing as a minor Dick Swiveller (of The Old Curiosity Shop). Also, Tigg's first name is suggestive of Shakespeare, and his treatment of Shakespeare is splendidly glib and offhand.'
Frankly, his garbled Shakespeare gets on my nerves %) But what do you think?
PlaterescaToo often I wonder why I had never thought of something before. I think it will be fun to see how comfortably Mark Tapley fits into the Jung/Joseph Campbell concept of the Monomyth. Maybe, maybe not, we shall see.
Cindy wrote: "I am curious to see how young Martin's character develops. In this chapter, the thoughtless selfishness we discussed previously becomes even more egregious. As Peter points out in his comment on th..."A further comment on Chapter 6:
From a previous sequence, I recall Tom's disclosure that part of his joy of playing the organ for no compensation, beyond the simple pleasure of playing and hearing the music, was his hope to see the young woman who entered the church. Quite clearly (to me, at least), he had done the head-over-heels-love-at-first-sight thing and was simply bonkers over the possibility of seeing her again. Accordingly, he gladly played the organ in hopes that she would return to the church.
Surely this notion must have been painfully obvious to Martin and yet he, in turn, disclosed that the girl was the young woman that he was in love with and intended to marry in due course without any thought that such disclosure might have broken Tom's heart. Martin proceeded without giving a thought to Tom's feelings about the girl and Tom, deferentially, made no further reference to his feelings for the as yet un-named girl.
Martin's character so far seems to oscillate like the mood swings of a manic-depressive.
Plateresca wrote: "What do you think of Tigg so far, everybody?..."Tigg comes very near the top of my smarm-meter. His devotion to Slyme appears to be predicated on that gentleman's possession of a wealthy relative. Slyme, "so abject and so pitiful was he--at once so maudlin, insolent, beggarly, and proud" (112) is clearly incapable of mounting any effective campaign for a portion of the inheritance they are clearly after. It is apparently Tigg's relentless begging from everyone that supports them as they pursue this dream. Their relationship is defined when Slyme angrily orders Tigg to "do your duty" and "borrow money for travelling expenses" (113). Slyme's unique attitude toward the people who donate to support him is encapsulated in the sentence, "How dare they oblige me!" This made me laugh, as did Tigg's slimy (pardon the pun) glorification of his friend after he passes out in front of them, culminating in praising him for "a toga-like simplicity of nature" (114). Still chuckling over that one!
They seem to be ignorant of young Martin's identity, and I was on pins and needles that someone would mention his name in front of Tigg. I wasn't sure how the two men would react if they knew that they were in the presence of the old man's grandson. Even though young Martin and his grandfather are on the outs, I could see Tigg thinking it a rare opportunity--and a possible bargaining chip!
Poor Tom's trusting nature is being imposed upon left and right. He offers his last penny to the unctuous Tigg upon promise of repayment (pretty sure that won't happen). On top of that, his new friend has put him on the hook for three pounds to the Dragon Inn for that erratic pair's tab. Martin includes himself in the plan for repayment to Mrs. Lupin, but since he has no money and no employment at this time, it is unclear how he intends to uphold his share of the debt.
This chapter had me cringing so badly, I had to stop and walk away a bit. I just knew Slyme and Tigg (Slimy - as Cindy pointed out - and the Tick, as I see them) would suck every penny out of poor Tom, as they indeed did. Based on your calculations, Plateresca, Tom will be out a whole month's wages because he listened to Tom and followed Tigg back to the inn. Oh, and how noble of Slimy to bite the hand that fed him in order to preserve his self-respect. I hope we won't be seeing too much more of this pair of charlatans.As to their ages, Dickens tells us that Tom is "perhaps about thirty" (Chapter 2), while Martin "was young - one-and-twenty, perhaps" (Chapter 5). So Tom was quite a bit older than Martin; but I don't know that either one of them was wise about the world as Martin, too, had led a sheltered existence.
I am loving all of the side discussions (organs vs. barrel organs - how tragic about John Leech -, wine, and Peter the Wild Boy). I can see Dickens' fascination with Peter - he seemed to me to be drawn to the odd and unusual.
Plateresca wrote: "John, I agree, it's not apparent that Tom is older, and it's probably because he wasn't always meant to be so.American aloe is, in fact, spiky (Wiki link):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agave_ame..."
Yes, his overcooked sentences got on my nerves. I could not help but think, and mentioned it earlier, that Dickens seemed to be having some fun with both Shakespeare and his rival Christopher Marlowe. Marlowe did not have a good end because of non payment or disagreement about a tavern bill.
This chapter may have been somewhat over the top in some ways, but it would be difficult now to forget the true natures of Tigg or Chevy Slyme or Mark Tapley. They have been so well presented in word and deed. And Tom, well I do want to shake him a bit so he takes in what’s really happening around him. But perhaps a lot of his happiness is based in the way he sees and interprets the world. If he saw people as we are seeing them, would he be able to manage his feelings and interactions as well as he does? We know that he recognizes some slights and bad behavior from his personal asides, but he doesn’t let them affect his behavior. I wonder if he ever will (in the course of this book)?
Plateresca wrote: "Luffy, you're welcome! 🍷Having read a few articles on 'MC', I'm sure of one thing: whatever one thinks about this novel, one can find critical opinions both to support and to disprove this outloo..."
Okay I am posting a last text on chapter 6 and Pinch. I think ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance is the major reasons for dysfunctions everywhere. Pinch gets shortchanged in his victuals. He would have been so much better off if he could make a distinction between Pecksniff's brand of empathy and the real deal, that of say, Westlock. We must not forget that Pecksniff cleaned up Pinch's grandma's savings. Life savings at that.
I think lens that offer different realities are welcome. That does not mean that we cannot make distinctions between different scenarios. The most common ambivalence in literature is whether a scene is real or a dream or a simulation etc.
E.g. I have read classics whose literary analysis threw up a Marxist, feminist, queer, psychoanalytic etc versions of the same book. E.g. a literary analysis of, say, The Great Gatsby can eke out a queer analysis of the book. That doesn't mean there are gay characters in that book.
Similarly, Dickens left notes of his entire career as an author. Maybe there exists a note saying that Pinch is unaffected by being in Pecksniff employ and his house. But even if that were true, it does not mean that the consensus, along with a Marxist analysis of MC cannot affirm my positing of Pinch's situation. I normally, for the reading of a book, won't bring in the author's intent. But the nature of our interaction certainly brings Dickens from the death-of-the-author philosophy.
Sue wrote: "And Tom, well I do want to shake him a bit so he takes in what’s really happening around him. But perhaps a lot of his happiness is based in the way he sees and interprets the world. ."Sue, I think you are right about the way Tom sees the world. He has an innate happy outlook that keeps all the negativity around him at bay. I think its a lovely way to live. Sometimes I wish I had blinders to put on as I walk around in the world.
Tom and Mark Tapely are interesting contrasts. I've thought so since the moment they were riding in the carriage together on the way to Salisbury. Tom is jolly without trying and without seeking (or seeing for that matter) out anything bad. Whereas Mark seeks out the bad and forces himself to be jolly. But both men seem to be popular and well-liked by the people they encounter, so they have a lot in common.
I found the over-the-top stuff in this chapter quite funny. Tigg dancing and kissing his hand made me laugh. Mark seizing Mrs. Lupin around the waist because "once he looked up there was no looking down again" was precious!
Thank you Plateresca for the money tutorial. I knew Tom had been taken, but I didn't realize by how much!
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
Martin Chuzzlewit (other topics)Martin Chuzzlewit (other topics)
Martin Chuzzlewit (other topics)
Dickens and Phiz (other topics)
The Turn of the Screw (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Charles Dickens (other topics)Fred Barnard (other topics)
Hablot Knight Browne (other topics)
Robert William Buss (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
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I love that you posted this picture--I have it hanging in my dining room!
I, too, thought that young Martin seemed rather selfish in his outlook, but I can see this as a by-product of youth, as Paul pointed out. He seems genuinely nice aside from that, and to a person like that, sometimes all it takes is being around someone unselfish like Tom Pinch to influence a change in their behavior. Hopefully, Tom will be the role model young Martin needs--especially if he is going to be hanging around with the Pecksniffs! If for nothing else, I love Tom for being a reader! :)