Works of Thomas Hardy discussion
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The Mayor of Casterbridge
The Mayor of Casterbridge
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The Mayor of Casterbridge: 1st thread: Chapters 1 - 9
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I thought this too, Jean. In fact, this whole scene reminded me very much of the malthouse in Far From the Madding Crowd (which we read together as a group last year). I'm thinking of Joseph Poorgrass, wasn't he the fellow who would tell biblical tales, but always get them slightly wrong. He was funny.
I went back to refer to someone's comment from Chap 7 and completely lost my comments I had already jotted down ARRGH!!OK, I will try to focus again. I enjoyed these last 2 chapters a lot, especially since it reveals a little more about Henchard's character and introduces us to Donald Farfrae. I agree with Bridget that despite Farfrae's protestations that he must stick around.
I was very happy to "hear" the conversation between Henchard & Farfrae, especially when Henchard admits to being ashamed of a past deed and took action to prevent such an error in judgement to occur again. As I was happy over this, I note that Susan certainly had a positive reaction as well. ...the mother's face being strangely bright since Henchard's avowal of shame for a past action. Perhaps she now has some hope about the future? As I say that, I did love Jean's comment comparing the bad wheat restoration to perhaps symbolize a chance for Susan and Henchard's relationship to be restored.
I appreciated Laura's interpretation of Farfrae's character Farfrae believes that knowledge should be free - not hoarded and a price demanded for it. A man of the Scottish Enlightment - notable humanitarian philosophers - David Hume, Thomas Carlyle, Thomas Reid in particular emphasized the importance of knowledge and its accessibility.
Bridget picked the most humorous quote for me thus far in the novel describing Mrs. Stannidge. I loved it so much I must repeat it here: who remained as fixed in the arm-chair as if she had been melted into it when in a liquid state and could not now be unstuck, LOL!
In this chapter, I noticed a sort of intermittent sadness in Farfrae's attitude. He sings Scottish songs passionately and speaks of Scotland to the locals with a "tragic fixity". Meanwhile, Henchard is walking past the inn and perceives from outside some echoes of the conviviality inside. The final scene of the chapter - this man walking alone and hearing/listening to merry sounds he is not included in has a taste of sadness too, particularly when Henchard admits his loneliness. For some reason yet unclear, he feels a kinship with Farfrae and is accordingly frustrated as the young man does not seem to stay in Casterbridge.
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I like all your thoughts, and this is so true. I wonder what it was that made Susan return to look for Henchard. Now she is concerned for her daughter's prospects, which he could improve, but was it just that a friend told her she was still married to him (as Hardy said earlier) or does she still have feelings for him? She had no idea of his wealth before they arrived.
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😂 Farfrae would doubtless says that's very canny! Yes, you must be right I think.
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Bridget said - "I felt quite sad for Henchard when at the end he hears Farfrae singing and feels drawn in by him "I suppose because I'm so lonely"
Yes, it's so poignant. Surely Farfrae has to stay, because everyone wants him to! And I don't think Henchard has an actual friend, does he, but they really seem to get on. As you say "It's interesting though that Henchard is not inside the Inn enjoying the evening with the townspeople." I wonder why that is. Is he an outsider because he has moved from one class to another, so doesn't really "fit" anywhere?
All 4 songs have been traced, according to my edition, and would have been ones Hardy would have known. Two of them were by Robert Burns. Hardy loves putting in these musical details, doesn't he?
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Oh I hate it when that happens! I've been writing everything offline first, as my internet keeps dropping out, but they are coming to fix it tomorrow afternoon. So I'll try to post the summary in the morning!
"...the mother's face being strangely bright since Henchard's avowal of shame for a past action. Perhaps she now has some hope about the future?"
Oh well spotted there! That's a great detail to pick up 😊
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The next morning, Elizabeth-Jane opens their window and overhears a conversation between Henchard, in the street, and Farfrae, at the next-door window. Farfrae is ready to depart, and Henchard offers to walk with him to the top of the town. Farfrae leaves the inn, bag in hand, and the pair set off. Farfrae glances up at Elizabeth-Jane at the window, but does not acknowledge her, which makes the young woman feel slighted, despite reminding herself that they did not know each other.
Susan says she has been thinking of Henchard’s sudden liking for the young Scottish man. She wonders that if he takes so kindly to strangers, perhaps he will respond in kind to his own kin. Five large wagons of hay pass in the street, marked as part of Henchard’s business, renewing Susan’s conviction that she ought to try to rejoin the prosperous Henchard, at least for her daughter’s sake.
Susan decides to send Elizabeth-Jane to Henchard with a note telling him of Susan’s arrival in town, and her status as a sailor’s widow. She tells her daughter that if Henchard does not wish to recognise them, to tell him that they will leave Casterbridge as quietly as they came. If he does wish to acknowledge them, he should arrange a way to see Susan.
Elizabeth-Jane walks up High Street on the busy market day morning. The street is filled with vans unloading wares, shops displaying their items outside, livestock for sale, and farmers and townsfolk in the middle of business dealings.
Casterbridge forms the centre of the surrounding country life. All the signs of country life in this old market town are exciting and fresh sights to Elizabeth-Jane. Elizabeth-Jane arrives at Henchard’s home, one of the best houses in town, and finds the front door open, revealing a passageway leading all the way to the garden at the back of the house. She is directed to an office in the store-yard.
Elizabeth-Jane enters the office to find not Henchard, but Farfrae, pouring over some samples. Momentarily confused, Elizabeth-Jane recovers and asks to see Henchard.
“While Elizabeth-Jane sits waiting in great amaze at the young man’s presence, we may briefly explain how he came there.”
At the moment of Henchard and Farfrae’s parting on the road that morning, Henchard had spoken up again and persuaded the younger man to stay. Farfrae had exclaimed that this situation must be the work of Providence, and had agreed to become Henchard’s manager. Henchard, now confident and extravagant in his kindnesses, had welcomed Farfrae to a second breakfast and insisted the young man live in his house, at least until he could find other accommodation. Henchard then gave Farfrae a tour of the premises and of his business.
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Locations
Henchard accompanies Farfrae along “Chalk Walk” as far as the corner where “a footpath ran steeply down the slope”.
This is a Victorian photograph of the Chalk Walk, Dorchester, actually Colliton Walk, an avenue in the area now called "Top o' the Town", where a steep path still runs down the bank to the Grove at the north west corner of the old walls of Dorchester. From this walk a footpath leads down into the Bath and Bristol Road.
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Why on Earth am I posting a photo of Barclay’s Bank? 😆 Because this building is reputedly the original of Henchard’s House in The Mayor of Casterbridge. It is at 10 South Street (there are 4 streets meeting in the centre of Dorchester) and is a fine 18th century town house. The text says Mayor Henchard’s house was situated in Corn St and “was one of the best, faced with dull, red-and-grey brick”.
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Susan interprets Henchard’s focus on Farfrae as a mark of his newfound kindness. Henchard’s wealth persuades Susan that she needs to reconnect with him. More than anything, Susan is motivated by securing Henchard’s prosperity for her daughter.
Susan does not seek out Henchard directly, but sends Elizabeth-Jane with a note allowing Henchard the option of meeting with her or not. This tentative move allows the decision to be Henchard’s. Susan has followed her husband’s will in the past, and continues to do so here.
The description of Casterbridge on market day demonstrates the key role that farming plays in the lives of these villagers. There is actually a note by Thomas Hardy in the original manuscript next to the part about the recesses in front of houses that were used by pig-dealers as pens for their stock:
“The reader will scarcely need to be reminded that time and progress have obliterated from the town that suggested these descriptions many or most of the old-fashioned here enumerated”.
Of course what Thomas Hardy thought of as old-fashioned in 1886, was very different from what we think as old-fashioned now! He was probably thinking with his architect’s hat on, of what people currently liked, and the pigs in pens in the main street etc. would have been from an earlier time.
Because Henchard is a farming merchant, his economic importance in Casterbridge also makes him important in the social and political community. Henchard’s house is another physical indication of his success and wealth.
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Farfrae’s appearance at Henchard’s is a surprise for both Elizabeth-Jane and for the reader! The novel then moves backwards in time - a flashback to account for Farfrae’s presence - explaining how Henchard had persuaded the young man to stay.
This twist in the narrative emphasises Elizabeth-Jane’s surprise, and hints to us that Farfrae might be a main character in the text who will not disappear from Casterbridge. At least, we hope so!
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I'm really looking forward to everyone's comments and ideas so far 😊
First, I really am enjoying the photos of places that are reportedly linked to our novel. They bring more life to our reading. Thanks Jean.There is certainly much energy that Henchard puts into his pursuit of Farfrae. Clearly, when Henchard initially wants something he can be a very determined man. My mind goes back to the scene in The Three Mariners where Susan and Elizabeth-Jane listen through a thin wall to the conversation between Henchard and Farfrae. While separated, how close these four individuals truly are. I ask myself how eager and persuasive Henchard was in his initial pursuit of Susan? She is presented to us as a shy, retiring person. Obviously, he got want he wanted and they were married. Over time Henchard tired of Susan.
In the recent chapters Henchard is in pursuit of Farfrae. We learn from this chapter that his pursuit of Farfrae is successful. Indeed, Farfrae now lives (even if it is temporary) in Henchard’s home. I don’t see that great a difference between Henchard and Susan’s life together as itinerant people and Henchard’s present success and initial situation with Farfrae. In both cases Henchard’s persuasive character eventually got what he wanted.
Farfrae and Susan have very different characteristics, but they fit a similar pattern with Henchard.
And then, as noted, there could well be emotional sparks between Elizabeth-Jane and Farfrae. Hardy is deepening the plot in many directions.
Thank you Jean for the picture of the Mayor's supposed house! Thomas Hardy's descriptions of the city and the market are very precise and colourful. I too was reminded of Far From the Madding Crowd in chapter 8, as Bridget mentioned. (A pity I could not reread it with you last year as I was engaged in another reading adventure next door.) Thomas Hardy is excellent in his depictions of gatherings, inns, marketplaces.I agree with Peter on Henchard's determination to obtain something - or someone's collaboration "eager and persuasive" were the right words.
There seems to be a stronger reason to it than it first meets the eye. In chapter 7, Henchard compared Farfrae's forehead to his late brother's. Henchard seems to be mutterseelenallein (godforsaken?) on earth.
"Come bide with me —and name your own terms. I’ll agree to ’em willingly and ’ithout a word of gainsaying; for, hang it, Farfrae, I like thee well!”
I was reminded of the well-known beautiful church hymn "Abide with me, fast falls the eventide", and also of Jesus' disciples on their way to Emmaus who do not want the unknown traveler to leave them (Luke 24:13-35).
[Side note: "Abide With Me" is a Christian hymn by Scottish Anglican cleric Henry Francis Lyte (1793–1847). A prayer for God to stay with the speaker throughout life and in death, it was written by Lyte in 1847 as he was dying from tuberculosis. It is most often sung to the tune "Eventide" by the English organist William Henry Monk (1823-1889). Source Wikipedia]
On a more funny note, the carpet-bag, first a long-distance traveler's bag, proved to become Mary Poppins bag (yes Kathleen), full of seed and corn samples, then Henchard's "enemy". The famous carpet-bag is now in a corner of Henchard's room. Roses are gleaming on it!
I am fascinated that readers and scholars have traced so many places in the novel to their apparent physical origins. And then we have the tracing of the songs and even agricultural activities to their origin.What I enjoy most is how Hardy’s various iterations, changes, and the rethinking of his plot, character, and style which can be traced back through still-existing MS, text editions, and other anecdotal information.
How sad it is that so much information is lost to us with the advent of technology. With a simple keystroke a present day writer can delete a word, change a name, and alter entire paragraphs. Indeed, how many entire chapters have been deleted through the ease of a delete button?
I love looking at an author’s scratch outs, X’s, and everything else that shows us, and, indeed, celebrates in real time an author’s mind at work. One example, in ‘A Christmas Carol Dickens originally had the name ‘Little Fred’ for the name of Cratchit’s son. I think most of us much prefer the lovely alliteration of ‘Tiny Tim.’
Peter wrote: "I am fascinated that readers and scholars have traced so many places in the novel to their apparent physical origins. And then we have the tracing of the songs and even agricultural activities to t..."It is fascinating indeed, Peter! I am always puzzled about storage methods and facilities for hay and grains, well described here. Of course, farmers had less acres and cattle than nowadays and no round ballers. (not to mention agriculture in America!)
I hand wrote many notes for the last group reading I was hosting before typing posts. Yes, drafts allow researchers to see much more!
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Farfrae’s appearance at Henchard’s is a surprise for both Elizabeth-Jane and for the reader! The novel then moves backwards in time - a flashback to account for Farfrae’s presence - ..."
The flashback caught my attention too. Hardy breaks the narrative and addresses the reader directly when he says "we may briefly explain". I'm not sure I've seen Hardy do that before. Though, I could be wrong about that. I can't remember half the things I've read now LOL!! When I got to that part though, it felt like a new way of writing for him.
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It felt like Henchard and Farfrae walked the whole town and ended up at a high point where Farfrae can see the vastness of the land around him. Maybe the pull of Casterbridge itself helped in his decision to stay. I really like Peter's comparison between Susan and Farfrae and how they are influenced by Hencahrd. It felt like the town and the county won Farfrae over as well.
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Great point Peter. Henchard is both single-minded and determined, isn't he? I can imagine that he won't take "no" for an answer, but he must have a certain amount of charisma, too.
Bridget, I also loved the descriptions of the market of Casterbridge and seeing it through Elizabeth-Jane's fresh eyes. It made me feel as if I were walking beside her.Peter, I like your observation of the similarities between Farfrae and Susan being influenced or beguiled by Henchard. He's a very convincing and determined man when his mind is set on something.
It appears that Hardy has used these nine chapters to set the scene for what it to come. He's brought all the characters together in one place and now we'll see how their stories evolve. I'm looking forward to what lays ahead.
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"In chapter 7, Henchard compared Farfrae's forehead to his late brother's" - that's a really significant detail to pick out - thanks Claudia! It reveals so much about how Henchard reacts instantly by how he feels. I think he is the sort of person who goes by his instincts and first reactions - he said he can take an instant liking to someone. Perhaps he has brotherly feelings towards Farfrae.
Yes indeed, the "bide with me" is an older English phrase, as you say from the lovely hymn, but also has a very "homey" family feel. It's more intimate than "stay with me" or "lodge with me", so emphasises Henchard's strong urges.
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I feel the same way about the "transitory" nature of our present day lives, Peter. Photographs are another case in point. People take them willy-nilly, photographing their food, or themselves several times a day -and then delete them all after a while! They are no longer precious, but disposable.
Like you I am fascinated by the edits of manuscripts. This is a reminder from an earlier post here I titled "Different Editions, and Hardy’s Writing Method":
Thomas Hardy made notes on the actual text itself, rather than having a notebook for planning. If he had about 10 lines he had changed, then he would produce a fair copy, and throw the previous one away. The complete post is here https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
The Norton edition has a random page with lots of crossings out, but here is the first page from the copy in the Dorset History Centre, Dorchester, with just a couple:
What treasures his waste paper basket must have held!
This chapter was a lot of fun for me to read because I felt that Henchard would somehow manage to keep Farfrae in the village. And already we see an attraction forming toward Farfrae by Elizabeth-Jane. Concerning modifications of manuscripts, I too feel that it is a shame. There should be earlier versions of the printed work (if it gets to that point) but in the case of Kindle (I don't know about other ereaders), Kindle will be able to reach in and modify the earlier version. That is another argument to always have a hard copy of any beloved books you may want to read in the original language.
That was the case after I had read James by Percival Everett, a retelling of Mark Twain's The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn through the eyes of the slave Jim. I couldn't remember actually reading Twain's work so went out to find a copy without the 'cleaning' of Twain's use of certain terms that were common at the time of the first writing. I reviewed several hard copies I found in libraries and used bookstores for a truly unaltered version, and finally did find one.
Bionic Jean wrote: "Peter wrote: "How sad it is that so much information is lost to us with the advent of technology. With a simple keystroke a present day writer can delete a word, change a name, and alter entire par..."I don’t know the price for a page of Hardy manuscript but in case anyone is interested in a single page of Dickens’s ‘Pickwick Papers’ there is one available for sale. 😊
https://www.peterharrington.co.uk/cat...
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Yes, that gave me quite a jolt too, Bridget. I'm not sure I remember Thomas Hardy using this device quite so overtly before, though I do remember him changing tenses sometimes, to "put us in the moment" so to speak.
Now I'm wondering if it was a later insert, when he realised he had not included or explained that scene! Do you remember searching for the "missing chapter" once Bridget, in our group read of Tess of the D’Urbervilles? 😆It was so funny, as there really was an extra one in some editions!
In that later novel he had added an entire chapter (view spoiler). Evidently that one scene had so much dramatic potential, that he expanded the section in later editions, and reorganised the chapter numbering (some ends of chapters were altered too to facilitate this sort of thing).
Here though, the section starting "we [the author] may briefly explain how he [Farfrae] came to be there" seems to be just stuck in randomly, as you might add in conversation, and appears to be an afterthought.
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I've just looked at Christine Winfield's study of the manuscript edition(s). There isn't an actual facsimile of this particular chapter 9, although there are quite a few. (Pam your comment made me realise how interesting it would be if e-reader providers bothered to upload facsimiles of original manuscripts, but I doubt whether there would be enough demand to cover the cost. I suspect they'd need to using image software for each page.)
Anyway back to chapter 9. The original manuscript I mentioned before, which Thomas Hardy himself presented to the Dorset Country museum has incomplete chapters, and this is one. Christine Winfield says there are three "scattered leaves" between chapters 8 and 9, and that "the paper stock, the foliation and a series of alterations suggest that the leaves in question were written at a later date than the rest of the chapter."
She goes into more details about the physical appearance, but her focus is on when exactly "Alan Stansbie" changed to "Alan Farfrae" and then to its final version: "Donald Farfrae", and also Henchard's first name changing from "Giles" to "James" and then to the final "Michael".
So we don't have final confirmation, but I'd lay odds that the final couple of pages beginning "we may briefly explain how he came to be there" were added later. And I'd even venture to suggest that they might have been added by his wife Emma, (since we know that some parts of this novel were, when she produced his "fair copy"). Perhaps she assumed the role of his editor here, and thought it was needed, to make more sense of the action so just did it for him as she had before.
What do you think? Is this theory going too far?
Bionic Jean wrote: "An added section?Yes! I've just looked at Christine Winfield's study of the manuscript edition(s). There isn't an actual facsimile of this particular chapter 9 (although there ar..."
Jean, I don't think your assumptions are going too far. In fact, I find the possibility of Hardy’s wife Emma having a literal hand in the creative process to be very possible. As you have pointed out, Hardy was very active himself in the editing and polishing of his work. If Hardy trusted his wife’s judgement then there is no reason why he would alter some of Emma’s thoughts.
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If you scroll back or LINK HERE, you can see I've added a Victorian photograph of "Chalk Walk", (comment 210) - where Henchard and Farfrae walk.
This is pretty much as it would have looked in Thomas Hardy's time.
Thanks Peter! It seems to be generally agreed that the missing parts in the manuscript donated by Thomas Hardy to the County museum might well be the parts which Emma had written, so I was wondering if this might be one of them. 🤔
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Yes, that gave me quite a jolt too, Bri..."
I do remember the search Jean, but for the life of me I can't remember more details than that LOL!!
As you rightly point out, its common with Hardy for whole chapters to be re-written at a later date. Hardy once wrote to William Dean Howells about TMOC saying that it probably would have been better if he had published in 1884 when it first came out of his head and was put down on paper. But he fiddled with it for another year and half. And he saw novel writing as a "job" at that point, not an art form. He was writing to draw in audiences.
Added to that, I totally agree with Peter you are not over reaching to think that Emma made the change we all noticed. That seems right to me!
Thank you Jean for the additional information about the drafts. It is really remarkable that many writers had a regular, almost calligraphic handwriting: Thomas Hardy as a former architect, Elizabeth Gaskell, who was able to write in her kitchen and anywhere else, left us valuable drafts. Fyodor Dostoevsky's fac similes were more synthetic but also obviously more messy and perhaps less decipherable - beyond the fact that he wrote in Russian, of course. On a different note, I am keeping in mind Elizabeth-Jane's quality as an observer - through the window's curtains this time, and her tendency to act promptly. She seems to have a practical mind, while her mother is more introvert.
I cannot remember if Thomas Hardy used some flashbacks in his other novels I have read, but George Eliot did, especially in Daniel Deronda.
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That's really interesting Bridget! Norton gives me pages and pages on all the edits, and his regrets, but I didn't know of that letter.
Please forgive this long post, but I was away and am now catching up! Chapter 7 - When Peter mentioned there were two men on one side and two women on the other side of the thing wall (msg 189), it made me think Susan and Michael are of the old ways, with emphasis on status, and Susan and Farfrae are younger and perhaps place more emphasis on honesty and straightforwardness. In chapter 8, Farfrae is described as “new but not new,” “the first to articulate what all his listeners have felt …”
Jean, I particularly appreciated your extensive post on Michael Henchard. I am very intrigued by his character--what happened to him in the time before he sold his wife, as well as in this interim.
With Chapter 9, I realized how much I am enjoying the way Hardy is introducing us to these people and their environment. It’s so warm, with the songs and emotions and descriptions of homes and the working animals. So full of life! (I really believe the more I read Hardy the more there is to notice and appreciate.) I wonder if I’m feeling this warmth even more because of its juxtaposition with the cold and harsh beginning?
Jean, I adore the Chalk-Walk photograph and your description that let's us feel we're in the scene! And Claudia, I too appreciated the glimpse of the carpet-bag showing up in the corner in this chapter. :-)
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I particularly liked this: "Susan and Michael are of the old ways, with emphasis on status, and Susan and Farfrae are younger and perhaps place more emphasis on honesty and straightforwardness"
and think it's a great observation. So we have one representing the old ways and one the new, on each side; both coexisting but with a clear division too. I love it! 😊 It's good to have you back.
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Just joining. I'll catch up this week, but I just had a crazy thought. Is anyone else an opera fan ? The Mayor of Casterbridge would be, I think, a wonderful story for a contemporary opera.
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Hi Brian, so glad you decided to join and that you found our discussion. I'm an opera fan and you are right, TMOC would make an excellent opera! So much drama!! I don't want to spoil anything for you, but you will see what I mean as you read.
Feel free to keep posting posting here as you go. We will be happy to see your thoughts, and I'm sure others will respond to them as well.
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I don't think there has been an opera yet, but it was staged in London in 1926, so during his lifetime. It was written by John Drinkwater and Thomas Hardy was able to go to a performance in Weymouth. He received a great ovation, and referred to it in his diary as a:
""flying matinee". Beautiful afternoon. Scene outside the theatre finer than within".
I'm puzzling over what he meant! 🤔
Readers new to Hardy were slyly given a huge gift on page 2. Hestates one of his primary beliefs, one that deeply affects most of his novels:
"...anything (is) possible at the hands of Time and Chance, except, perhaps, fair play."
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The next sentence is even more embittered. The narrator is describing Susan (although she is referred to merely as "the wife" at this point) and says that her expression conveying life's unfairness is the result of civilisation.
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"a road neither straight nor crooked, neither level nor hilly, bordered by hedges, trees, and other vegetation, which had entered the blackened-green stage of colour that the doomed leaves pass through on their way to dingy, and yellow, and red.
This is why I love reading Hardy - his descriptions of the landscape, so vivid that the land itself becomes a character in his stories.
Works of Thomas Hardy
Books mentioned in this topic
Daniel Deronda (other topics)Tess of the D’Urbervilles (other topics)
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn (other topics)
James (other topics)
Far From the Madding Crowd (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
John Drinkwater (other topics)Thomas Hardy (other topics)
George Eliot (other topics)
Thomas Hardy (other topics)
Fyodor Dostoevsky (other topics)
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Here in this scene we see again some of the classism that Laura has pointed out, with the tradesmen getting better seats and the "inferiror set" relegated to benches and drinking out of "cups" instead of glasses (I loved that little touch Hardy added). But there is a conviviality in this scene that maybe transcends some of that class separation. Here, the men are enjoying each other's company instead of some being shut out like they were at the "Golden Crown" dinner.
It's interesting though that Henchard is not inside the Inn enjoying the evening with the townspeople. In fact, I felt quite sad for Henchard when at the end he hears Farfrae singing and feels drawn in by him "I suppose because I'm so lonely".
Farfrae keeps insisting that he is leaving for Bristol. But I feel like he must be staying in Casterbridge because Hardy is spending so much time creating him. And like Pamela noticed, there does seem to be an attraction between Elizabeth-Jane and Farfrae.