The Seasonal Reading Challenge discussion
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Caveat: I don't have any trouble with the current system (well, the new "use pb" still makes me stumble because I forget). I just consider it part of the "challenge." So, I'm fine with status quo; but, it's obvious that many struggle with parts of the rules.So, here's my take on some of the comments above, if we are changing:
1) Use the edition you read for print pages. For ebooks and audios, I like Fly's idea of just using the top-rated edition and leave it at that. It seems much easier to remember and find.
2) If the majority doesn't want tasks calling for specific numerals, we could, instead, write more with page ranges (based on #1) like 100-215, etc. OR, the less than or greater than type.
3) Cover tasks are difficult at times; the thumbnails on the TBR lists at GR are small, so I often have to click in to the main page. Even then, I sometimes still need to find a cover elsewhere to enlarge when I'm planning. (Yes, if you have the book in hand, it's pretty cut and dried...)
In summary, the easiest (lowest common denominator) answer seems to be to just use the highest rated edition, period.
I'm sure I may think of something I forgot, but that's an issue for another time...
I don't like "use the edition you read" because that means that a specific title may be used for a task by one person but not by another. I often find books to use by looking at what has been posted. It's frustrating to see that someone used a book for a task but the edition I get from the library or on my Kindle has a different page count or different cover that doesn't fit the task. I would like the rules to change so that if a book is accepted for a task, that should apply to all editions.
I don't know whether it would be better to say that a book is acceptable if any edition fits the criteria or whether it would be better to say that a book is acceptable if a specific edition (highest rated, highest rated pb, etc.) fits.
Dumb question- is the first edition listed on GR the highest rated? Does that mean the most rated? I don’t see how different editions can have different star ratings.
There have been lots of suggestion posted, so perhaps this is a repeat.My suggestion is that if any English language edition fits, then it works regardless of what edition you read/listen. Post the edition that works.
Exceptions:
You can never use the large print edition.
If you read a non-English edition, you can use it or not -- it's your choice.
Abridged Audio editions can't be used.
The book must work entirely for your task. For example, let's say you read a book with several editions. One has a blue cover and is 98 pages. All of the others are over 100 pages with yellow covers. You can't claim this for a blue cover task. You can claim this for the yellow cover task.
I agree with Julia. It's frustrating to see that a book claimed by someone else doesn't work for me because of edition issues.
Ultimately, I think it has to be whatever is easiest for the moderators, even if it is harder for individuals. They check a few thousand posts per quarter, so making it easier for them should be the priority.
Mod
My suggestion is that if any English language edition fits, then it works regardless of what edition you read/listen. Post t..."
I think you hit a lot of the things here. The only reason we are weary of if an edition fits it fits- read whichever is because of another language having a higher page count- Or the cover issue you mentioned. I think this would be a fair way of doing things.
and thank you for thinking of us reviewing mods. :)
Mod
Highest ratings = the book with the most ratings given by readers.
JennRenee wrote: "Robin P wrote: "Dumb question- is the first edition listed on GR the highest rated? Does that mean the most rated? I don’t see how different editions can have different star ratings."Highest rati..."
Sorry, I still don't understand. I have looked at several books and under each edition it lists the same number of ratings. For example, Murder on the Orient Express has many many editions, with lots of different covers, languages, and page counts, but every one shows 707,239 ratings.
Robin, that number is the total sum of ratings for that book, all editions. On the editions list if you click 'more details' you can see how many times each individual edition has been rated and what the average rating is for each edition.
Fly wrote: "Robin, that number is the total sum of ratings for that book, all editions. On the editions list if you click 'more details' you can see how many times each individual edition has been rated and wh..."Thanks for posting this. I didn't know this.
Is this how GR determines the default edition?
Robin P wrote: "JennRenee wrote: "Robin P wrote: "Dumb question- is the first edition listed on GR the highest rated? Does that mean the most rated? I don’t see how different editions can have different star ratin..."On the main GR page, scroll down to "Show all ... editions" and click it.
Above the individual editions listed you will see three boxes with drop down options. The top on the right says begins "Sort by." By default it shows "num ratings". So the top listed edition has the most ratings...
Two possible things you MIGHT need to do:
1)On the main page, sometimes the editions line doesn't show, but you will find something like "Book details and editions" to click first (I can't find an example right now...)
2) On the editions page, you may need to use the dropdown box if "Num ratings" isn't listed.
Susan A wrote: "Fly wrote: "Robin, that number is the total sum of ratings for that book, all editions. On the editions list if you click 'more details' you can see how many times each individual edition has been ..."It usually defaults to the one with the highest number of ratings, but not always. There's something wonky going on there that I haven't figured out.
JennRenee wrote: "Robin P wrote: "Marie (UK) wrote: I have been having to swap books through tasks because the book I get is not the one with the right cover. I am not saying you are right or wrong, as you say they ..."I think changing the page numbers rules works because unless you are reading an abridged version everyone is reading the same words it is just the printing that is different
However I think changing cover requirements t goes against the idea of finding a particular image on the book you read. I feel we might as well stop setting cover tasks if you can just trawl through any number of editions to pick the one that suits. I admit to being disappointed when a book appears from the library with the wrong cover but still think this is change too far.
I must admit that this has been going through my head while reading all of the above..."It's supposed to be a CHALLENGE..."
Mod
Its not always the same number of words. if you are reading English then yes, but many other languages have more words in their books. Sometimes you can see that another language doubles the amount of pages.
I don't mind having to do a little extra work to find books that fit tasks. Part of why I started doing this challenge was in the hopes that it would help me branch out with my reading and find some books that I might not have tried otherwise. That being said, I find the different page count requirements confusing to the point that I try to avoid them when possible. I agree with everyone saying that the mods should do whatever makes life easiest for them. I can't believe what a huge time commitment it is to run this challenge, and I so appreciate that all of you are willing to do this with your free time.
I don't think tasks requring a specific cover should be able to use any edition. I agree that it's frustrating to order a book from the library and get a different edition than you ordered. I would suggest looking at the editions on the GR page to see how many different covers there are, and only ordering books with few variables in covers to reduce the chances of ending up with the wrong cover. Another suggestion: ask your librarian if you can order more than one copy of the same book! That way when they come in you can select which edition/cover you want to read. As someone who's worked in a public library for several years, even us librarians can have trouble getting a specific edition, because the library catalogue often doesn't have a lot of detail about editions.
One last suggestion: would it be possible to have a section in the rules that explains the different tickets? It's laid out very well in the Rewards of the Challenge thread, but it would be nice if there was at the very least a link in the rules. (Unless there is already and I'm just missing it!)
Katrisa wrote: "I have one thing that we might consider as far as any qualifying edition goes. I think if you are reading a book in English that was published in English, then your qualifying edition should also b..."I've wondered about that, too. I usually post both the top MMPB and the top English edition when the MMPB comes up as not in English.
Marie (UK) wrote: "However I think changing cover requirements t goes against the idea of finding a particular image on the book you read. I feel we might as well stop setting cover tasks if you can just trawl through any number of editions to pick the one that suits. I admit to being disappointed when a book appears from the library with the wrong cover but still think this is change too far."
I'd agree with Marie, here.
Fly wrote: "Robin, that number is the total sum of ratings for that book, all editions. On the editions list if you click 'more details' you can see how many times each individual edition has been rated and wh..."
I never knew that.
Mod
I can add a short description with a link to the Rewards thread in the next update.
Mod
Please visit Rules of the Challenge for full information.
Most important changes:
1. You may use the link to any qualifying English edition of the book you read in your completion posts. You do not have to link the specific edition that you read. We want everyone to be able to use the same book to complete a task and not have to depend on the specific edition they can obtain if they are reading the same book.
2. Books will be verified according to the link used in the completion post, especially in the case of page numbers. If you read audiobooks, please use or include a link where a qualifying page count is listed. Only audiobooks that DO NOT have a print edition and ebooks that DO NOT list a page count will need to be verified for the 100 page minimum.
Please feel free to ask questions if you are unsure of anything.
Thank you for being part of this group.
how does this affect BB tickets? do we still go off of the MMPB or do we use the edition linked?also, just double-checking, linking any qualifying edition also works for cover tasks, right? ...it's going to be a while before I can do this without it feeling like cheating 😂
KmarieD wrote: ". You may use the link to any qualifying English edition of the book you read in your completion posts. You do not have to link the specific edition that you read. We want everyone to be able to use the same book to complete a task and not have to depend on the specific edition they can obtain if they are reading the same book."So to clarify, if the kindle edition I read is a qualifying edition in any respect - cover, page count, etc - I can just use that and forget about a link to a physical copy? Or would I still need a link using the the Top MMPB/PB/HB progression, with the difference that it can be an English edition if a non-English one comes up top?
And tangental to Fly's question, what if there's a big difference between the kindle page count and the physical page count. For example, Coming Up Short has a kindle page count of 571pg, and thus would be a big book; but the only physical copy - a hardback Coming Up Short has 416pg and therefore wouldn't be. Which would I use?
Seperately, I was looking at the "Rewards of the Challenge" thread. The Golden Oldies paragraph has been updated to 1970, but the Best Review one still talks about the old system of one review per peson and a poll.
Mod
also, just double-checking, linking any qualifying edition also works for cover tasks, right? ...it..."
We finally decided that no process is going to be perfect and it would be easier to just have one process to verify books rather than different ones depending on what element is being verified. So all verification is going to rely on the book that is linked in the completion post.
To help those who have trouble obtaining the specific edition they found that qualifies, even though they are reading the same book, we have allowed flexibility in choosing which edition is linked in the completion post. You are still welcome to link the edition that you actually read.
Page count for the book will be determined by the edition that is linked in the post, so if you are claiming a BB make sure that the edition you use has the correct page count. We won't be looking at a specific format to verify this.
Yes, it will apply to covers as well, and will also be hard for me to adjust to. But I have also found recently that sometimes the cover that shows on my kindle icon is not always the cover that shows when I open the book.
Mod
Yes, the kindle edition can be a qualifying edition in any aspect so you can just link to that, there is no more need for the Top MMPB/PB/HC process.
If you read in another language besides English, you can still link to the edition you read and that edition will be used to verify the book.
For ebook page counts, we feel that most of them are now close enough that we can just use the page count on the book page for verification. We realize that there may still be some outliers, but the benefits of a streamlined process outweighs that issue at this point.
We are working on getting all the Rules, Rewards, etc updated and it has been a slower process than originally intended. I will go and quickly update that Review part though with the Raffle.
well, this certainly makes things easier on the posting side :)(I'm anticipating tasks becoming more difficult to compensate haha)
I hope it lightens the load on the verification end!
I think these changes are great! Thanks for all your time and effort.
Christine wrote: "I think these changes are great! Thanks for all your time and effort."Hear! Hear!
The changes are welcomed and should make it easier for everyone, most importantly the mods. Thank you.
These make a lot of sense and will make it easier for new members to participate without a lot of questions or problems. Thanks!
Whether I agree or not, I believe I'm beginning to understand how to proceed. I, too, will have to work to stop thinking about books for tasks as I have the last 10 years.But, I DO have one question that I didn't see discussed, so want to verify. In message 70, above, it says, "Only audiobooks that DO NOT have a print edition and ebooks that DO NOT list a page count will need to be verified for the 100 page minimum.}
The old rules said we could NOT use an audiobook that didn't have a print version. So, it appears that it's now replaced with "A) Audiobooks without a written word equivalent, either physical or digital, MUST get the book pre-approved by a moderator in the topic "Book verification-no print edition" in General Help." and that it. Right? (If so, I can finally use that one I've had in my TBR for several seasons...!)
Mod
But, I DO have one quest..."
Yes. We feel that if we have a process to approve an ebook or an abridged audiobook to be a certain length so that it qualifies for the minimum 100 pg length of a book, we should be able to do that for an audiobook that doesn't have a print equivalent. They still won't be eligible for a task requiring a higher page count because we have no way to accurately guess an actual page count. We are going with the same 2 hour requirement of an abridged audiobook for those without a print equivalent.
Did I explain that OK? I am trying to make that clearer in the rules.
KmarieD wrote: "Yes, the kindle edition can be a qualifying edition in any aspect so you can just link to that, there is no more need for the Top MMPB/PB/HB process."Cool. Thank you.
That'll certainly make things easier. Like KmarieD said, it'll be a bit of an adjustment after so long!
KmarieD wrote: "Kathy KS wrote: "Whether I agree or not, I believe I'm beginning to understand how to proceed. I, too, will have to work to stop thinking about books for tasks as I have the last 10 years.But, I ..."
OK, that does clarify that part and I have another eligible book on my TBR now! Thanks.
The Seasonal Reading Challenge
Books mentioned in this topic
Coming Up Short: A Memoir of My America (other topics)Coming Up Short: A Memoir of My America (other topics)
Murder on the Orient Express (other topics)
Crazy Rich Asians (other topics)
Crazy Rich Asians (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
David Grann (other topics)Simon Winchester (other topics)
This also will affect the tasks that require 501 minimum pages and BB tickets.
We also don't want to restrict a creators on the rules or creativity they put forth in their tasks.
We are working really hard to find a common ground between what is fair and easier for task creators, finding books, claiming books, and for the reviewing mods.
we really do appreciate your input and patience as we work through this and we hopefully get this sorted to be in effect for the Fall season.