How many genders are there?

[Ethan]

actually, Oxford does have a history of activism. look it up.

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Yes! I say this as a person who identified as transgender when I was younger

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Ethan wrote: "actually, Oxford does have a history of activism. look it up."

Lol, I'm from the UK Ethan, I am aware. I have multiple friends at Oxford and (almost) would've gone but my place was given to someone who paid more than me smh 😪 it's okay lol

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

The multiple friends are doing Masters though, and are nearly all international or like, kids of politicians lmao 😭

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Some oxford colleges are more activist, some aren't. Oxford isn't just one college, lol.

[Ethan]

oh interesting

[Ethan]

yes, but the vast majority of oxford is still liberal, if not activists.

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Ethan wrote: "yes, but the vast majority of oxford is still liberal, if not activists."

Well, define liberal for me

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Because most ideas are liberal. America existing is liberal.

[Ethan]

The argument is if the majority of Oxford is liberal, and it is, overwhelmingly. You know exactly what I'm talking about.

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Liberal is the wrong word. I just don't like it, because like Ronald Reagan was a liberal. The word just doesn't...work and is being misused.
Anyway, no I wouldn't say the majority, no, the vast majority of people at Oxford are just the children of so-and-so and international students. There is an activist population, as with 99% of unis, but yeah

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

I think American unis have a significantly more worrisome "liberal" to use y'all's wording atmosphere that inhibits...freedom of speech which is a..liberal idea..... see what I mean?? Liberalism doesn't work to mean what you want it to mean lmao.
Anyway, Ethan, even Bates Technical College: For every one conservative student, there are roughly 14 liberal students. 25% of students say they have self-censored on campus at least once or twice a month.

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Americans (and now Brits, because they're influenced too easily!) using conservatives/liberals as meaning opposites of what they truly are will always bug me
I'm making an entire episode on that

[Ethan]

As for Bates Tech, that's a different issue.
Maybe the word you would like more is radical progressive, or at least progressive.
We are talking about modern liberalism and conservatism. It really does depend on the time. Most people would agree that liberalism has not been the same as it was throughout the years.

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Lol, i was just informing ya ;)
Yeah, that would be slightly better, yes.
Well, neither has conservativism, haha, I don't like these labels because they are all a little bit silly, but if I were to force myself into a box I would be more conservative, but economically "liberal", because I'm a...neoliberal. Which is a branch of conservativism.

Yes, I'm a politics student. Yes, this is partially what I study.

[Ethan]

oh cool! gotcha I do have a grandpa who is kinda like that as well
also thx for informing me Ig it would be different in the UK

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Lol a grandpa like what? XD I'm now your grandpa 😂😂
Yeah, I mean, I do think that American education including higher ed is a bit uh crap no offence lol

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

ray ⋆☾⋆ wrote: "MidnightButterfly ~ exam semi hiatus wrote: "ray ⋆☾⋆ wrote: "MidnightButterfly ~ exam semi hiatus wrote: "oh wait my bad
there are transagers ofc"

which is dumb because those people are a mockery ..."

Well, they may be TERFs, but many wear that badge with pride. Many do feel that, hey, women did all this, and now biological men can just sweep in and take all this too?

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

ray ⋆☾⋆ wrote: "MidnightButterfly ~ exam semi hiatus wrote: "Yes! I say this as a person who identified as transgender when I was younger"

that doesn’t mean that you know everything about how trans people work or..."

I didn't say that, I'm not transphobic, I'm trans-skeptic, mainly because of I don't care if you act or dress or sit like society dictates women to do, you are biologically a man, or a trans-woman, if trans means acting like. Acting like or thinking like doesn't mean you *are*

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

ray ⋆☾⋆ wrote: "there are children that think they are trans by saying they identify as “dog boy gender” or “pastel goth girl gender” I’m pretty sure not all people who label/or have labeled themselves as trans ac..."

How does it work if the rules are personal

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Okay, but for austism it means "your brain is wired differently", and it is. For transgenderism it;s "my brain makes me act as though I were a man/woman/any other one of the infinite genders" but just because you act as such, even if your brain is making you act as such, doesn't mean you are
Like autistic people don't even fit into this argument, because autistic people aren't claiming they have a neurotypical brain or whatever

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

ray ⋆☾⋆ wrote: "MidnightButterfly ~ exam semi hiatus wrote: "ray ⋆☾⋆ wrote: "MidnightButterfly ~ exam semi hiatus wrote: "ray ⋆☾⋆ wrote: "MidnightButterfly ~ exam semi hiatus wrote: "oh wait my bad
there are trans..."

But it is impossible to learn about it when it is an internal identity. Like I could go around claiming I;m a socialist, who knows, if I'm a socialist. I could wave around a socialist flag and whatever, and act as if I were, does it mean I am? I can't verify it.

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

ray ⋆☾⋆ wrote: "I’ve explained this idk how many times now? gender is a psychological phenomenon. we may not fully understand how it works but it is real and it is more than “just a feeling” or something “imaginar..."

Yes, gender is in the brain, that is what I said.

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

Your brain makes you act like you were a different gender to what you look like, yes?

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

yes, your brain is different. So, the brain makes you act different than what your sex is, what did I say that disagrees with you lol

[butterfly is back (barely, mostly on insta)]

But what is more important? What sex you are or what gender you are

[Pierce Samuel ✞︎ (My Girlfriend's Ver.)]

MidnightButterfly ~ exam semi hiatus wrote: "➶ ｡˚ ° Pierce Samuel ˋ°•*⁀➷ wrote: "Faith wrote: "so if i can be whatever gender i feel like at any given time, can i also choose my race and age depending on how i feel? i identify as black today,..."

So I actually already made an argument against this! This is because biologically, neurologically, and scientifically trans people are created transgender.

[Pierce Samuel ✞︎ (My Girlfriend's Ver.)]

ray ⋆☾⋆ wrote: "it would be SO much easier to not be offended by trans people using “man” and “woman” in their labels if people would just use the terms “cis” and “trans” properly 💀 atp people have just made thing..."

RIGHT?? Like I'm sorry, but if you call me slurs and I barely flinch, I do NOT need you playing the victim over me calling you cis. Bsfr.

[Ethan]

but why would we need to stand being called cis if we don't even agree with your views?

[Emma Klingler]

Ethan wrote: "but why would we need to stand being called cis if we don't even agree with your views?"

cis isn't an insult 😭

[soph ₊˚ෆ (joey's version) 🍉]

Ethan wrote: "but why would we need to stand being called cis if we don't even agree with your views?"

lmao it's not an insult bestie, ppl just get so offended by it

[Ethan]

we prefer just being called man and woman, so don't get so butthurt if we call you something you don't like(excluding insults)

[Emma Klingler]

Ethan wrote: "we prefer just being called man and woman, so don't get so butthurt if we call you something you don't like(excluding insults)"

and guess what, THEY prefer just being called man and woman (or anything under non-binary that they are) so how about just do that?

[Pierce Samuel ✞︎ (My Girlfriend's Ver.)]

Ethan wrote: "but why would we need to stand being called cis if we don't even agree with your views?"

Cis is a scientific term...

[Pierce Samuel ✞︎ (My Girlfriend's Ver.)]

That's like an able bodied person getting mad because they're called an able bodied person and not just a person... It's literally just an adjective to elaborate on someone 🙏

[Ethan]

ok, well then I will call you by what your chromosomes are. that's scientific.

[Ethan]

well, I mean, that's the debate, right? If gender and sex is separate. That's what we discussed previously, anyway.

[Pierce Samuel ✞︎ (My Girlfriend's Ver.)]

Ethan wrote: "ok, well then I will call you by what your chromosomes are. that's scientific."

Actually science backs up being transgender, nice try though. Get your facts right before being a dick.

[Ethan]

Science backs up chromosomes. Plus isn't that what we're doing in a debate? Arguing for the sake of finding out the facts? If you're xy, I'm calling you a man. If you're xx, I'm calling you a woman.

[Pierce Samuel ✞︎ (My Girlfriend's Ver.)]

Ethan wrote: "Science backs up chromosomes. Plus isn't that what we're doing in a debate? Arguing for the sake of finding out the facts? If you're xy, I'm calling you a man. If you're xx, I'm calling you a woman."

Ohhhh, but science also proves that sex DOES NOT equal gender!!! So I'll send this 1 (one) more time for you:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science....

https://www.ese-hormones.org/media/ei...

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles...

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles...

"This feels like a good place to quickly skim over trans scientific research. I
say skim not because I want to rush over it (I did a PhD: I love a good bit of
science), but because, as trans people, we don’t need to rely on peerreviewed papers to know who we are. However, it can sometimes be
reassuring to know you’re not alone or ‘weird’ for feeling how you feel.
Many papers support that socially and medically transitioning reduces
dysphoria and increases the wellbeing of trans people.fn1 Some papers
strongly support a biological basis of gender identityfn2 and suggest that
being trans is a result of hormone exposures when you’re developing in the
womb.fn3 Some scientific research has found similarities in the brain
structures of trans women and cis women.fn4 Not to toot my own horn, but
my own research supports this pattern too, where trans men’s arousal
patterns were more similar to what you’d see from cis men rather than cis
women.fn5 That’s all pretty cool if you ask me! But again, scientific papers
aren’t the golden nugget you need to fully understand who you are (sorry).
It’s more of an internal research process that you have to carry out for that
one." - Jamie Raines, The T in LGBT

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles... - Fn1

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25667... - Fn2

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21334... - Fn3

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10843... - Fn4

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33635... - Fn5

And stuff sources intersex folk:

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-h...

https://www.aclusocal.org/en/news/we-...

https://healthlaw.org/surgeries-on-in...

https://www.aafp.org/about/policies/a...

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/04/04/u...

https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/07/25/u...

[Pierce Samuel ✞︎ (My Girlfriend's Ver.)]

Don't be a dick just because you can be. Be respectful for the sake of seeing yourself being respectful.

[Ethan]

dude, I'm not just conforming to an idealogy that I don't believe in. I have trans friends, too, and we get along just fine.

[Pierce Samuel ✞︎ (My Girlfriend's Ver.)]

"I have trans friends" I feel bad for them?? Because saying that you'd misgender them just because you CAN is CRAZY.

You can deny SCIENCE all you want, but just know you'll be on the wrong side of history.

[Jeremiah (Rest in peace, Charlie Kirk!!) (GFB)]

@Pierce could you not use words like d*ck?

[Pierce Samuel ✞︎ (My Girlfriend's Ver.)]

Jeremiah (Kinda Smitten Cowboy) wrote: "@Pierce could you not use words like d*ck?"

Yeah sorry I gotchu

[Ethan]

Yeah, science doesn't say you are what you feel. Just cause you have less testosterone doesn't make you less of a man. The same goes for women.
Ik that we'll never agree with each other, but I hope we are able to get along!

[Pierce Samuel ✞︎ (My Girlfriend's Ver.)]

Okay, so actually READ my sources if you're going to debate. And also, I don't "feel" transgender, that's an uneducated mindset. I wouldn't say I "feel" like someone who stutters, I just DO. It's neurological, and I DIDN'T CHOOSE IT. Oh my GOSH. You think I would choose to be verbally, physically, and sexually assaulted JUST so I can say "I changed my name and pronouns 😝" NO??? That's idiotic of me to do. Hence, why that's why that's NOT what happened. There is research linking being transgender and development in the womb.

Like objectively you're wrong here.

Right! Just because my T is less than most men, doesn't mean I'm less of a man than them.

[Ethan]

Dude. First off, chill. You actually need to calm down.


We're debating. We're not just arguing like kids. Be professional about it.

I did read your sources. I'm still debating you because I believe they are wrong.

[Emma Klingler]

Ethan wrote: "Dude. First off, chill. You actually need to calm down.


We're debating. We're not just arguing like kids. Be professional about it.

I did read your sources. I'm still debating you because I be..."

you believe scientific sources are wrong...and yet you're trying to use SCIENCE to argue...you have a problem here dude

[Ethan]

No, I think their research is wrong.