The Debate Group discussion
LGBT etc.
>
How many genders are there?
Mod
Like?
Mod
maybe i missed it (sry im busy) but i didnt see that you answered it and i didnt see any so..."
https://www.ese-hormones.org/media/ei...
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles...
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles...
"This feels like a good place to quickly skim over trans scientific research. I
say skim not because I want to rush over it (I did a PhD: I love a good bit of
science), but because, as trans people, we don’t need to rely on peerreviewed papers to know who we are. However, it can sometimes be
reassuring to know you’re not alone or ‘weird’ for feeling how you feel.
Many papers support that socially and medically transitioning reduces
dysphoria and increases the wellbeing of trans people.fn1 Some papers
strongly support a biological basis of gender identityfn2 and suggest that
being trans is a result of hormone exposures when you’re developing in the
womb.fn3 Some scientific research has found similarities in the brain
structures of trans women and cis women.fn4 Not to toot my own horn, but
my own research supports this pattern too, where trans men’s arousal
patterns were more similar to what you’d see from cis men rather than cis
women.fn5 That’s all pretty cool if you ask me! But again, scientific papers
aren’t the golden nugget you need to fully understand who you are (sorry).
It’s more of an internal research process that you have to carry out for that
one." - Jamie Raines, The T in LGBT
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles... - Fn1
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25667... - Fn2
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21334... - Fn3
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10843... - Fn4
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33635... - Fn5
AND, if you want to debate about intersex folk:
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-h...
https://www.aclusocal.org/en/news/we-...
https://healthlaw.org/surgeries-on-in...
https://www.aafp.org/about/policies/a...
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/04/04/u...
https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/07/25/u...
Faith wrote: "what about puberty blockers? what about giving testosterone to very healthy young girls? what about the harm done in chopping off body parts? yeah id say bad things ARE happening to childreni don..."
People don't take those things unless they're old enough to decide for themselves. No parents go "oh hey I want my young child daughter to act like a boy let's give her testosterone." NO. People take testosterone when they're old enough to choose and accept any consequences. Again, no one goes and chops off children's body parts. So stop making these wild claims.
just because you're prejudiced against them doesn't mean they have to be forced to live their lives as someone they're NOT. Sometimes you just have to deal with things that don't actually affect you so that other people can have better lives.
Mod
i don..."
Puberty blockers are used on cis children as well, and are COMPLETELY irreversible. And what's your source for that? NO CHILD is going through surgery. And one of my sources proves that gender affirming surgery saves lives.
Mod
ok, first of all, chill out, im not trying to insult you, i asked some pretty basic questionsbiological women in mens sports is pretty wacko, but since men are naturally stronger than women, it affects people a lot less
➶ ｡˚ ° Pierce Samuel ˋ°•*⁀➷ wrote: "Faith wrote: "my personal reasons come from the Bible, but there are plenty of reasons outside of that"Like?"
i already listed them...?
ray ⋆☾⋆ wrote: "Faith wrote: "and literally everything anyone on here has said agrees with the fact that is is purely mental"mental does not equal “just a feeling”"
sure, but its not necessarily true or reality. if someone is having a hallucination, it doesnt mean the hallucination is not happening, but it doesnt mean whats going on in the hallucination is real. idk if i explained that the best lol
ray ⋆☾⋆ wrote: "Faith wrote: "so if i can be whatever gender i feel like at any given time, can i also choose my race and age depending on how i feel? i identify as black today, also im 35, respect that or its hat..."i didnt see anything... im sorry lol
genuinely want to know the answer, could someone explicitly and directly answer this quesiton
Mod
mental does not equal “just a feeling”"
with your logic, then autism,..."
Me when I pull up to the psychiatrist "feeling" autistic so I get a diagnosis (That's not how it works)
Nah but fr, for example: I have a diagnosed stutter. It is COMPLETELY mental. Like nothing physical is restricting me from speaking. I DO have physical affects from my stutter (Like muscles in my neck tensing when I have a block), but it is COMPLETELY mental. That DOES NOT mean I feel like I want to have a stutter, I just DO. I speak differently then the majority of people. It makes a lot of folks uncomfortable, I am taken less seriously, and have lost points in things like Speech & Debate for my stutter: Something I have NO control over.
I was born transgender, it is completely mental. It has affects like gender dysphoria and what not with it. I didn't choose this. I was born transgender. I simply don't align with my sex. I don't feel transgender, and I definitely don't want to be transgender. I was born transgender. This makes people uncomfortable, I'm taken less seriously, and I have been verbally, physically, and sexually harassed because of this.
Mod
Like?"
i already listed them...?"
Not any sources, so they're just claims.
forgive me for not having time to read all 7 million of your sources, im very busy and doing the best i can just to respond
➶ ｡˚ ° Pierce Samuel ˋ°•*⁀➷ wrote: "You're one to talk about sources. I have genuinely lost respect for you."i mean, not gonna lose sleep over that lol
Mod
biological women in mens sports is pretty wacko, but since men are naturally stronger than women, it a..."
I will not "chill out" as you're literally claiming that people like me are people who are indoctrinating children, when the only thing I was indoctrinated with as a child was a quite frankly cult-like church. (No offense to Mormons, but I do NOT vibe well w/ the church)
Actually, people being so against trans women in sports (Stop calling them men.) has actually effected CIS women, and have made athletes go through invasive experiences just so they can compete. So you're NOT against it being unfair, you are against us. Michael Phelps have a HUGE biological advantage, so we should disqualify him!! Oh.. no? Because he's cis, so it's okay. Right.
https://media.hhmi.org/biointeractive...
ray ⋆☾⋆ wrote: "Faith wrote: "ray ⋆☾⋆ wrote: "Faith wrote: "so if i can be whatever gender i feel like at any given time, can i also choose my race and age depending on how i feel? i identify as black today, also ..."im so sorry ray i totally missed that😭thank you for responding again
Mod
mental does not equal “just a feeling”"
sure, but its not necessarily..."
You didn't!! Read my sources. It's not something we just feel one day, it's something programmed into us.
Mod
I literally have eight about being transgender. You're using a hyperboble.
➶ ｡˚ ° Pierce Samuel ˋ°•*⁀➷ wrote: "Faith wrote: "ok, first of all, chill out, im not trying to insult you, i asked some pretty basic questionsbiological women in mens sports is pretty wacko, but since men are naturally stronger th..."
i mean im not at all a fan of mormonism either personally
im also against women in mens sport, as i mentioned earlier, i just think that men in womens sports is a much bigger issue
➶ ｡˚ ° Pierce Samuel ˋ°•*⁀➷ wrote: "Faith wrote: "ok, first of all, chill out, im not trying to insult you, i asked some pretty basic questionsbiological women in mens sports is pretty wacko, but since men are naturally stronger th..."
cult-like *sniff sniff * (jk lol)
Faith wrote: "➶ ｡˚ ° Pierce Samuel ˋ°•*⁀➷ wrote: "Faith wrote: "ok, first of all, chill out, im not trying to insult you, i asked some pretty basic questionsbiological women in mens sports is pretty wacko, but..."
hold up. What do YOU have against "mormonism" (which is not what we're called. We are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints)
❀Em°❀⋆.ೃ࿔*:･ wrote: "➶ ｡˚ ° Pierce Samuel ˋ°•*⁀➷ wrote: "Faith wrote: "ok, first of all, chill out, im not trying to insult you, i asked some pretty basic questionsbiological women in mens sports is pretty wacko, but..."
sorry em, not tryna be rude 😭💖
Faith wrote: "❀Em°❀⋆.ೃ࿔*:･ wrote: "➶ ｡˚ ° Pierce Samuel ˋ°•*⁀➷ wrote: "Faith wrote: "ok, first of all, chill out, im not trying to insult you, i asked some pretty basic questionsbiological women in mens sports..."
well no ik but I'm genuinely curious cuz you're Christian and "Mormons" are Christian too so like what do you have against us...?
Faith wrote: "is this @ me or pierce lol"you. ik what Pierce has against us lol he used to be Mormon
Mod
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/..."
Both are .com, and the former was rated the lest credible source in NY, and was taken 6 years ago.
As for the latter, it doesn't really support your claim...?? Like, it uses the umbrella term "6-17" but doesn't specify what age they specifically were when they went on HRT, and in most states you have to be 16 to go on HRT.
And also top surgery is also used for cancer treatment...? Like for breast cancer...? And the site specifically said w/o a diagnosis for gender dysphoria, and you can't get HRT w/o a diagnosis/actively seeing a therapist, and so I DOUBT you can to get surgery.
❀Em°❀⋆.ೃ࿔*:･ wrote: "Faith wrote: "is this @ me or pierce lol"you. ik what Pierce has against us lol he used to be Mormon"
well from what I understand (correct me if im wrong:) Mormons believe we can become gods and that God kind of "evolved" to be God, He was not always God. They also believe in the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith and such which isn't from God. They also deny Jesus Christ was a full deity and don't believe in the trinity. thats about all i know:)
➶ ｡˚ ° Pierce Samuel ˋ°•*⁀➷ wrote: "Faith wrote: "https://nypost.com/2024/10/08/us-news...https://www.reuters.com/investigates/..."
Both are..."
6-17 are both minors and it implies that children as young as 6 are getting such treatment
top surgery for breast surgery is because of tumors and cancer. top surgery for trans people to knowledge is the removal of healthy breasts to look more like the opposite sex
Mod
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar......"
Yeah people give Lia Thomas CRAP, but NO ONE is giving Michael Phelps crap for literally having such a big genetic advantage?? Imo, Lia should compete with girls her height tho. And also your source is not credible and is legit just a magazine. Oh and I KNOW you did not read that unless you have a subscription to that magazine, because you can't read more than like a minute before it asking for you to pay, so!
As for the other, that is legit 1 (one) person, and that was extremely rude of them to do. But I bet if they weren't trans, they'd just be labeled as horrible for doing that. But now we gotta categorize ALL trans people as horrible because a TEENAGER acted horribley.
Mod
biological women in mens sports is pretty wacko, but..."
Again, so it's not about being fair?
And gender them correctly.
➶ ｡˚ ° Pierce Samuel ˋ°•*⁀➷ wrote: "Faith wrote: "➶ ｡˚ ° Pierce Samuel ˋ°•*⁀➷ wrote: "Faith wrote: "ok, first of all, chill out, im not trying to insult you, i asked some pretty basic questionsbiological women in mens sports is pre..."
i did "gender them correctly"
➶ ｡˚ ° Pierce Samuel ˋ°•*⁀➷ wrote: "Faith wrote: "https://www.businessinsider.com/trans...https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar......"
somehow i was able to read it? like actually?
Mod
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/......"
Well, 6 year olds legit can't because they're not in puberty, so!! And unless you have a source that specifically sites that 6 year olds are going on testosterone or estrogen, I don't wanna hear it. Also it doesn't put the influx of ages, because I BET that the majority of them are 16-17.
It's the same operation. Like the medical term is LITERALLY called the same thing.
Mod
biological women ..."
Oh I have something against all organized religion, LOL. It's just Mormonism is what I was raised in, so I specifically have something against that. But I think all organized religion is cult-y
i have to go ill come back later and see if anything was directed at me:) have a great night y'all
Mod
biological women in mens sports is pretty wacko, but..."
I'M SORRY ILY <333 I just have something against organized religion, it's wack
Mod
I AGREE BTW!!
Mod
bi..."
No you didn't. You said men is women's sports, and vice versa.
with under 18 not getting surgery i mean😭
Mod
In my humble opinion
Mod
I just have ezema and really stretchy & tearable skin due to my hEDS
Faith wrote: "❀Em°❀⋆.ೃ࿔*:･ wrote: "Faith wrote: "is this @ me or pierce lol"you. ik what Pierce has against us lol he used to be Mormon"
well from what I understand (correct me if im wrong:) Mormons believe w..."
ok I know this is not what this debate is about lol but yeah, ig we believe we kinda become lesser gods when we go to heaven. but no we don't believe God ever "evolved" to become God. We still believe in the Bible, yk. God never changes and never has.
Also, why is it so unbelievable that after the Bible, God would keep sending us revelation? Why would He stop sending prophets to the earth to lead and guide us? It doesn't make sense that revelation would just stop.
We DONT deny Jesus Christ was a full diety. He came down to Earth and chose to be human, yes. How else would he have been able to die? He could have stopped himself from dying, of course, but he didn't. He was human whilst on Earth (or at least as human as he could be) but he is still a full diety.
And it actually baffles me that people believe in the Trinity. In the Bible, we see God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit in 3 different places while Jesus is getting baptized, correct? Jesus was on Earth, God spoke from heaven, and the Holy Spirit was in the form of a dove. Also, if Jesus and God are the same person, how could Jesus be the Son of God? They are one in PURPOSE, not literally the same being. It logically makes absolutely NO sense for them to be the same.
Mod
you. ik what Pierce has against us lol he used to be Mormon"
well from what I understand (correct me if im wrong:) Mor..."
Honestly I've heard differing opinions from a bunch of different members NGL. If you want I can PM you like my entire opinion on it?
➶ ｡˚ ° Pierce Samuel ˋ°•*⁀➷ wrote: "❀Em°❀⋆.ೃ࿔*:･ wrote: "Faith wrote: "❀Em°❀⋆.ೃ࿔*:･ wrote: "Faith wrote: "is this @ me or pierce lol"you. ik what Pierce has against us lol he used to be Mormon"
well from what I understand (correct..."
lol that happens. your entire opinion on what? like, on the LDS religion or what?
Mod
you. ik what Pierce has against us lol he used to be Mormon"
..."
Yeah lol
Oh oh oh I know this one!! I was indoctrinated into Mormonism as a child!! I was NEVER told to be transgender by ANYONE, and guess what?? I still am. But I'm not longer Mormon!! And what is your source for that anyway lol? AND WHAT IS YOUR SOURCE BAHAHAHA?? The only chemical being pumped into me is my asthma medication. No child can legally go on HRT till they're 16 WITH parent consent, and again THAT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. And biological men competing in women's sports #1) STILL DOESN'T"T AFFECT YOU, and #2) If they're on HRT, HRT literally lowers their testosterone. And what about biological woman in men's sports? No one bats an eye at that. You're not worried about it being unfair, you're worried about us having rights. And they aren't valid reasons.
WHAT ACCOMMODATIONS ARE WE GETTING??? No seriously. One of my friends needs to use the nurse's bathroom because he'd get beat up in the regular ones. That isn't an accommodation, that's a cry for help.