Is it Ethical to Do Testing on Human Prisoners Rather Than Animals?

[clown_the_basking_shark]

ray pines ✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆ wrote: "clown_the_basking_shark wrote: "ray pines ✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆ wrote: "clown_the_basking_shark wrote: "ray ✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆⁺₊ ✩ wrote: "clown_the_basking_shark wrote: "No, never, people are people. Animal testing is bad..."

Human testing is bad, it causes death, it is a death sentence. A very cruel death sentence. You didn't answer my question, Who decides what's bad enough to warrant testing? Also, the prison system is racially charged. Due to the amount of mistakes our prison system makes, there should never be any process causes something as permanent as death.

[clown_the_basking_shark]

ray pines ✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆ wrote: "clown_the_basking_shark wrote: "ray pines ✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆ wrote: "clown_the_basking_shark wrote: "ray pines ✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆ wrote: "clown_the_basking_shark wrote: "ray ✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆⁺₊ ✩ wrote: "clown_the_basking_shark w..."

Yes, and we'd hold who lives and dies to a vote? Have you seen our election results?

[clown_the_basking_shark]

ray pines ✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆ wrote: "Yes lol I’m trying to play a bit of devil’s advocate lmao
also so that was a yes to being against the death penalty right?"

Yeah i'm against the death penalty, I just think that due to all the mistakes our prison system makes that we shouldn't do anything that could permanently alter someone's health (mental or physical) as punishment, I'm very pro prison reform

[Isabelle]

Hmmm I’ve never thought about this… 🤔 interesting.
My first reaction was def not… like they’re in jail/prison already, why put them through that? Also what if they are on drugs or had been, that means they won’t be a good control group because they could have other factors that could mess up the tests. But… that is an interesting idea…
Maybe if they had it as an option, if they wanted to do that to earn a small amount of money or some kind of gift as a thank you for being a test person for the experiment? 🤷🏻‍♀️😅

[gia]

like, what would this be a penalty for? shoplifting or murder? how severe?

[✰ g i g i - jisung season ✰]

gia ꪆৎ wrote: "like, what would this be a penalty for? shoplifting or murder? how severe?"

Imo, things that are serious, or at least caused serious bodily harm to people (ex: rape, manslaughter, infanticide, etc, so just crimes that could permanently cause irreversible mental or physical harm) should be the only things that seem fair. Like if someone is caught doing copious amounts of cocaine and giving it to a child, I'd count that, because that's seriously altering their mind and the child's. That only seems like the fairest circumstances for testing on prisoners.

[⯌Sky⯌ ~take from you like you took from me~, Assistant Moderator]

Well, as I suggested earlier, there should be a kind of range for that. The people who did really bad crimes such as r@pe or murder, they should get a higher and/or more dangerous dose of whatever product is being tested, and those who did less severe crimes such as shoplifting would get a smaller and/or less dangerous dose.

[gia]

yeah i agree, but who knows what ppl will decide tbh

[gia]

Skybird (Nickname Sky) wrote: "Well, as I suggested earlier, there should be a kind of range for that. The people who did really bad crimes such as r@pe or murder, they should get a higher and/or more dangerous dose of whatever ..."

should be up to the judge or jury in court, so many factors of a wide variety that go into this

[⯌Sky⯌ ~take from you like you took from me~, Assistant Moderator]

gia ꪆৎ wrote: "Skybird (Nickname Sky) wrote: "Well, as I suggested earlier, there should be a kind of range for that. The people who did really bad crimes such as r@pe or murder, they should get a higher and/or m..."

Agreed.

[Sai :), Assistant Moderator]

✰ g a g e - bbnotestosterone ✰ wrote: "gia ꪆৎ wrote: "like, what would this be a penalty for? shoplifting or murder? how severe?"

Imo, things that are serious, or at least caused serious bodily harm to people (ex: rape, manslaughter, i..."

agreed, as long as we keep it a last resort (though maybe not always manslaughter)

[sara]

prisoners are still people, even if they have done bad things, they are still humans like you and i. doing them on SPECIFIC prisoners is also just as unfair, because you think people should be tested on? have their lives even more unsufferable, while also being in prison is absolutely awful.

prisons are an awful experience, imagine human testing on top of that.

[Barnette ⋆˙⟡ (my girlfriend's version), Creator, Head Moderator]

I recently listened to a podcast episode on the MKULTRA experiments, and after that, I'm almost completely against it being legal to test on human prisoners (of course other people were used in the MKULTRA operation but there were a lot of prisoners/criminals used). I think it's incredibly unethical to test on humans for things such as developing drugs, testing toxins or radiation, developing biological/psychological warfare, etc. If this testing is done with consent, the person is fully aware of what's being done, and the person's life isn't at risk and they aren't in danger of lasting health consequences, that's a slightly different story that I don't really have a stance on. But being tested on without consent and full transparency is extremely unethical (in my opinion).

I'm also against animal testing, and I don't think there's a comparison of ethicality between using animals and humans - both concepts are awful, in my opinion. Especially as an animal cannot give consent for the testing, and it's often a lot easier for people to do absolutely horrible things to animals without legal consequences because there are fewer laws protecting animals, animals don't have families that will wonder where they went and can do anything about it, and the public (generally) cares less about the wellbeing of animals being tested than humans.

I think there are other ways that we can test products, drugs, concepts, war weapons, etc, than using animals or humans, criminal or otherwise. Scientists are developing fake skin that acts pretty much the same way as human skin, and that can be used to test topical products/drugs/etc. Bodies donated to science, with the full consent and knowledge of the family (and even better, consent from the person when they were alive) can be used for experiments, though that raises other ethical questions. Lastly, with the development of AI and computers, models can be made to demonstrate how things would act in real life, without having to physically test them. There are alternatives to harming real people and creatures, and more laws should be set in place to protect both. We need to look past the goal of money and success, and realize who's lives we're shattering and live beings we're hurting.

Thanks for reading, sorry it's a bit messy, it's late lol. Let me know what you all think.

[Sai :), Assistant Moderator]

Barnette {#rememberalexei} wrote: "I recently listened to a podcast episode on the MKULTRA experiments, and after that, I'm almost completely against it being legal to test on human prisoners (of course other people were used in the..."

yes love this sm!!!

[Barnette ⋆˙⟡ (my girlfriend's version), Creator, Head Moderator]

Sai :) wrote: "Barnette {#rememberalexei} wrote: "I recently listened to a podcast episode on the MKULTRA experiments, and after that, I'm almost completely against it being legal to test on human prisoners (of c..."

Thank you!!

[Barnette ⋆˙⟡ (my girlfriend's version), Creator, Head Moderator]

Barnette {#rememberalexei} wrote: "I recently listened to a podcast episode on the MKULTRA experiments, and after that, I'm almost completely against it being legal to test on human prisoners (of course other people were used in the..."

No one countered my debate 😔 I spent a while writing that

[Tessie, Assistant Moderator]

I misread the title oops

I was reading about mkultra too.
It’s insane but very interesting.w

[Barnette ⋆˙⟡ (my girlfriend's version), Creator, Head Moderator]

Tessie wrote: "I misread the title oops

I was reading about mkultra too.
It’s insane but very interesting.w"

No worries!

Frr

[Hazel (my girlfriend's version)]

Barnette {#rememberalexei} wrote: "Barnette {#rememberalexei} wrote: "I recently listened to a podcast episode on the MKULTRA experiments, and after that, I'm almost completely against it being legal to test on human prisoners (of c..."

I agree with you tho 😔

[Barnette ⋆˙⟡ (my girlfriend's version), Creator, Head Moderator]

Hazel wrote: "Barnette {#rememberalexei} wrote: "Barnette {#rememberalexei} wrote: "I recently listened to a podcast episode on the MKULTRA experiments, and after that, I'm almost completely against it being leg..."

Fair 😔