April 2025, Prelude, Spoiler thread

[☯Emily , The First]

This thread made contain spoilers, so the reader needs to be careful before reading!

[Nidhi]

I have this story but it's title is The Aloe.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Nidhi wrote: "I have this story but it's title is The Aloe."I'd never heard of the Aloe before yesterday, but it is a longer version of Prelude. Her husband had it published after her death.

I don't know if I'll get it read this month, but i certainly will read it at some point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aloe

[Nidhi]

It is long for a short story. I like Mansfield's stories. Her story The Garden Party is very good.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Nidhi wrote: "It is long for a short story. I like Mansfield's stories. Her story The Garden Party is very good."

Yes. I would love to know the history of Prelude/The Aloe. Maybe Mansfield couldn't originally quite come up with the content for a novel & published what she had. The ending for Prelude is quite abrupt.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

& this is a short story which is based on KM's childhood memories. The Beauchamps (Mansfield was KM's middle name) did move from central Wellington to Karori- which would have been quite rural in those days.

Some things sound very authentic - like she & her sister being left with a neighbour as there wasn't room for them in the buggy.

[Ginny]

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: Yes. I would love to know the history of Prelude/The Aloe. Maybe Mansfield couldn't originally quite come up with the content for a novel & published what she had. The ending for Prelude is quite abrupt."..."

I tracked down an interesting essay comparing the two versions.

In April 1917, for Hogarth Press publication, Virginia Woolf asked Mansfield for a story and was offered The Aloe. Mansfield spent the summer re-writing the long short story, which came out entitled Prelude in July 1918.

It seems a well-based supposition that Mansfield re-shaped her story at Virginia Woolf's advice and request, as Mansfield was not in the habit of re-writing her stories. But it is also possible that the recommended changes coincided with her own better judgement . [.....]

The effect of these wide-ranging alterations brought about a thematically and stylistically more coherent short story [...].

From "THE DETACHED EXISTENCE OF A WORK OF ART:" MANSFIELD'S "THE ALOE" VERSUS
"PRELUDE" AND WOOLF'S THEORY OF FICTION
Author(s): Nóra Séllei

So The Aloe came first. This writer thinks that Prelude is an improvement.

[Ginny]

This is from the introduction by written by her husband, John Middleton Murray, to the posthumous edition of The Aloe.

It could not, however, fairly be included in the ordinary edition of Katherine Mansfield's work, because it repeats, in a less perfect form, the material of prelude. Nor was it possible to separate the additional matter , which needs the context in order to be properly understood. On the other hand there were two cogent reasons for printing it: first, because Kegia and Lottie and Linda and the Burnell family as a whole have become so dear to admirers of Katherine Mansfield's work that it would be ungenerous to withhold from them these further particulars— for instance, the account of Linda's father and her courting by Stanley Burnell, or the description of Linda's sister, Mrs. Trout, at the sewing party; secondly, because a comparison of The Aloe with Prelude gives the more critically-minded a unique opportunity for studying Katherine Mansfield' s methods of work.

From https://archive.org/details/aloe0000m...

[Ginny]

What do you think is the significance of the title? Prelude. The Aloe is much easier to understand.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Ginny wrote: "What do you think is the significance of the title? Prelude. The Aloe is much easier to understand."

I've always thought it was meant as an introduction to the Burnell family who appear in some of Mansfield's other work.

[Sara]

It seems this story is awash with thematic threads, most of which do not seem to me to connect to a central idea. There is the move itself, which is an adjustment for all of the family, but clearly shows the relationships and how they bounce off of and hide from one another.

Linda is, outwardly, a contented and spoiled wife, but we are made to understand as the story progresses that she has a deep resentment of her husband and his use of her as a sexual object and also to produce children. There is apparently danger in her being pregnant, they have the three girls, and she obviously wants no more children, but when she visits the aloe tree it becomes apparent to me that she is pregnant again. My mind flashed back to the scene where the girls are having tea and he stands looking at them and thinking of “his boy” there.

Stanley has an on-going flirtation with the sister, Beryl, and the inherent danger in having a sick wife who doesn’t want you and a young vivacious sister-in-law who is champing at the bit to get a man, is obvious. This home, for all its idyllic exterior, is a powder keg.

The second thread is the story of the children. They are almost a world unto themselves, but their games are full of views of the adult world, reflections of what they observe around them. The episode with the killing of the duck threw me a bit. Is this a symbol for how difficult life is? How suddenly the placid life (of the duck or of the children) can be shattered and ended? The children scream when the head is removed, but they recover almost immediately…what does this say about life and their ability to adjust?

Finally, there is Beryl and her “fake” personality. Even she knows this person she pretends to be is a sham. She has a hard time distinguishing her true self from her fake self, but she knows that she is not what she pretends to be. Is this a foreshadowing of the plight of most women in this society? She will need these skills when she marries. Her sister uses them, but in a much more subtle and less egotistical way–but she is also pretending to be a happy wife and mother, when in fact she would like to give Stanley a present of her hate and watch the surprise with which he opens it.

Is the main theme here that we are all isolated? In our own little bubbles? Pretending to be connected to those around us–our families, our husbands, wives, mothers, daughters–when in fact, we have no idea at all who lives behind the facades we are presented with?

It is a very complicated and nuanced story and I can certainly see how Virginia Woolf’s influence is present.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Sara wrote: "It seems this story is awash with thematic threads, most of which do not seem to me to connect to a central idea. There is the move itself, which is an adjustment for all of the family, but clearly..."

Lots of thoughtful analysis, Sara!

The story seems to be to be a combination of KM's childhood memories (Lottie & Kezia being left with a neighbour they hardly know, the duck) & the three women (Linda, Beryl, the grandmother) living quite stifling lives. The childhood parts seem so vivid that I am sure they were drawn from Km's own memories.

For Linda & Beryl they are stifled, the grandmother seems outwardly content.

[Sara]

Interesting to know that so much of it is based entirely on childhood memories. The children do seem much better drawn than the adults, at least more thoroughly drawn. I wondered if Mansfield was saying we know even less about who we are as we mature and become lost in the way others define us or in the roles we assume for our mothers, our children and our husbands.

[Jan]

Sara wrote: "Interesting to know that so much of it is based entirely on childhood memories. The children do seem much better drawn than the adults, at least more thoroughly drawn. I wondered if Mansfield was s..."

Good points

[Jan]

I think she had some vivid scenes. It seems the Prelude was a setup for more to come. Something to pull it together.

[Ginny]

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Ginny wrote: "What do you think is the significance of the title? Prelude. The Aloe is much easier to understand."

I've always thought it was meant as an introduction to the Burnell family who app..."

Of course. The most obvious meaning. Apparently, the family is featured in The Doll's House and At the Bay. It would have been convenient if these two stories were included in my little edition of Bliss & Other Stories.

[Ginny]

Sara wrote: "The episode with the killing of the duck threw me a bit. Is this a symbol for how difficult life is? How suddenly the placid life (of the duck or of the children) can be shattered and ended?."

Given the times, this would have been really quite an ordinary event in rural areas. It was a regular occurrence when I was a child, although it was always disturbing. It was a job Pat had to do, and he thought it would be interesting for the children. And then the duck is served up for dinner. Part of the detailed picture of their family life.

[Ginny]

Sara wrote: "There is apparently danger in her being pregnant, they have the three girls, and she obviously wants no more children, but when she visits the aloe tree it becomes apparent to me that she is pregnant again. ..."

I'm not sure that Linda is already pregnant, but her becoming pregnant and the meaning of all that is very much the centre of the story. I had not especially noted this until you mentioned it: '“That’s where my boy ought to sit,” thought Stanley.'

It seems she is still debating resuming sexual relations, although she has a legitimate fear that another pregnancy could kill her.

And why this mania of hers to keep alive at all? For it really was a mania, she thought, mocking and laughing.

“What am I guarding myself for so preciously? I shall go on having children and Stanley will go on making money and the children and the gardens will grow bigger and bigger, with whole fleets of aloes in them for me to choose from.”

[Jan]

My husband grew up on a farm, so it was normal for him. I did not, so it would have freaked me out. It would probably been traumatizing.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Ginny wrote: "Of course. The most obvious meaning. Apparently, the family is featured in The Doll's House and At the Bay."

I blush to say I don't remember At the Bay that well, although I have visited it's setting.

The Doll's House is a wonderful story & stands out for me for two (off topic) reasons.

1. Waaaay back when I was in Form 2 (Year 8) I had a teacher who thought it was shocking that there was so little short story appreciation in the NZ Intermediate curriculum, so she used to read us short stories when we had the time & I loved this one. I guess KM was considered too scandalous a figure to be taught then, because NZ's greatest writer wasn't taught at secondary school either.

2. When my daughter was very young & we were on holiday in Wellington, we went to Katherine Mansfield House & the Custodian let my daughter play (briefly) with the Doll's House! She was a very careful child fortunately.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Ginny wrote: "Given the times, this would have been really quite an ordinary event in rural areas. It was a regular occurrence when I was a child, although it was always disturbing. "

Yes, I think I have already shared my traumatic childhood memory in another discussion in this group! I was a city child & my Canadian grandfather was a farmer. One of the reasons this story has always resonated with me.

[Kathleen]

Fascinating research everyone! As a work of art, I can understand how this sculpted version could be an improvement. But as a story, I think I’d prefer the original, longer version. I’m very intrigued by the details her husband gave, Ginny!

As Carol says, it is easy to believe these are childhood memories, as they ring so true.

Maybe the title “Prelude” alludes to the abbreviated version of this. One definition of the word = a preliminary event. Perhaps it’s Mansfield’s way of saying that she’s sharing early events and impressions that shaped her.

[Charlene]

I wasn't expecting it to be as scattered as it was.