Week 5: Tablets IX & X

[Tamara]

Tablet IX
Enkidu’s death has made Gilgamesh afraid of death. He weeps as he journeys through the wilderness in search of Utnapishtim to ask how he achieved immortality. He prays to Sin for protection, after which he slaughters lions that block the mountain pass and dresses in their pelts. Shamash warns him he will not find everlasting life. But Gilgamesh is undeterred and tells Shamash he is absorbing sunlight because he knows there is only darkness in the underworld.

Gilgamesh reaches the Twin Peaks, mountains guarded by the Scorpion People. He tells the Scorpion man and his wife he seeks Utnapishtim to learn the secret of everlasting life. He has to go through the dark tunnel between the mountains to get to the jeweled garden of the gods. The Scorpion man warns him this is the same tunnel the sun takes on its nightly underground journey. If Gilgamesh doesn’t exit before the sun enters the tunnel, he will be burnt to a crisp. Gilgamesh sets off in a race against time. Each hour brings more darkness. He emerges just as the sun enters the tunnel. The garden of the gods is a place glittering with trees of carnelian, lapis lazuli, crystal, coral, agate, and hematite.

Tablet X
Shiduri (Siduri), the tavern keeper for the gods, sees Gilgamesh coming towards her and bolts her door out of fear. Gilgamesh identifies himself. She asks why he looks so wretched if he is the hero he claims to be. Gilgamesh explains about the death of Enkidu and how he mourned him for six days and seven nights. He tells her he is afraid of dying and seeks Utnapishtim to learn the secret of everlasting life. He asks for directions. Siduri says he has to do what no one other than Shamash is able to do: cross the Waters of Death. The only way to do so is with Utnapishtim’s ferry man, Urshanabi.

Gilgamesh creeps up on the Stone Ones (Urshanabi’s assistants) crushes them, and throws them in the water. He identifies himself to Urshanabi, repeating the same words he used with Siduri. Urshanabi tells him the Stone Ones, which he destroyed, are the only ones that can touch the Waters of Death unharmed. He suggests an alternative for crossing the Waters of Death. He tells Gilgamesh to cut 300 long and straight punting poles to ferry them across. He cautions him not to touch the waters or he will die. They cross the waters and arrive at Utnapishtim’s island.

Utnapishtim asks the same question of Gilgamesh that Siduri and Urshanabi asked. Once again, Gilgamesh identifies himself, tells of his exploits with Enkidu, describes the death of Enkidu, admits his fear of death, and explains his quest. Utnapishtim reminds him of the advantages he has as king. He tells him sorrow will only accelerate his death and cautions him of the futility of his search for eternal life since all humans die, the gods having reserved immortality for themselves.

[Tamara]

Gilgamesh reveals he would not let Enkidu be buried until he saw a maggot falling from his nose. It’s a sobering image. What does this reveal about Gilgamesh’s attitude toward death?

Gilgamesh’s appearance terrifies Siduri so she locks her tavern door. He threatens to break her door down. Then he bashes the Stone Ones for no apparent reason. This is counterproductive, especially since Siduri has already told him his only chance of crossing the Waters of Death is with Urshanabi and the Stone Ones. Urshanabi claims Gilgamesh’s aggressive behavior is his own worst enemy:

“ Gilgamesh, your own hands are holding you back.
You crushed the Stone Ones and threw them in the river.”

Is Urshanabi correct? Has Gilgamesh consistently hurt himself with his aggressive behavior?

Gilgamesh tells Siduri he wept for Enkidu for six days and seven nights. The time-frame echoes Enkidu’s initiation into civilization which begins with non-stop love-making for six days and seven nights. Enkidu goes from wilderness to civilization; Gilgamesh reverses that by going from civilization to wilderness. To become human, Enkidu has to be clothed; Gilgamesh clothes himself in animal skins. Enkidu has to learn to eat bread and drink beer; Gilgamesh eats animal flesh. Enkidu transitions from animal-like to human; Gilgamesh transitions from human to animal-like. The suggestion is the two are making the same journey but in opposite directions. Why? How can this be interpreted?

Gilgamesh enters the pitch-black tunnel and emerges into the dazzling light of the garden of the gods. An emergence from darkness into light generally signifies some sort of awakening, rebirth, or acquisition of higher knowledge. Does Gilgamesh show any indication of acquiring wisdom?

What do you make of Utnapishtim’s speech to Gilgamesh about life and death?

[Roger]

I've been thinking about Gilgamesh's lament over Enkidu, and how it compares to Achilles' over Patroclus in the Iliad. Gilgamesh misses his friend all right, but mostly his grief seems to come from having it driven home to him that he too will die, and not necessarily in glorious battle. I don't remember that element with Achilles, who is mostly just filled with grief and rage at losing his friend. And Gilgamesh doesn't have the anger, does he?

[Tamara]

Roger wrote: "I've been thinking about Gilgamesh's lament over Enkidu, and how it compares to Achilles' over Patroclus in the Iliad. Gilgamesh misses his friend all right, but mostly his grief seems to come from..."

Interesting comparison, Roger. Both Gilgamesh and Achilles have in common grief over the loss of their respective friends. I think they may have one other thing in common: an inability to take some measure of responsibility for the deaths since both contributed either directly or indirectly to the deaths of their mates.

Achilles is full of rage and wants revenge. He's out for blood. He's not satisfied with simply killing Hector. He drags his body around the walls of Troy to parade the corpse. There's no fear--just a lot of anger and grief. It's been a while since I read the Iliad, but I don't recall Achilles taking even the slightest blame on himself for Patroclus' death. After all, it was his withdrawal from the battle field that was the catalyst for Patroclus' decision to enter the fray.

Like you, I don't sense any anger in Gilgamesh. He grieves for Enkidu, but almost immediately, he thinks about himself and his own death. I see a lot of self-pity and a crippling fear of his own death. I don't sense any acknowledgement he and Enkidu brought this on themselves.

Whereas Achilles is consumed with rage and thirst for revenge, Gilgamesh is consumed with fear and self-pity.

[David]

Gilgamesh seems determined to reverse the Journey Enkidu took toward civilization. Shamhat clothed Enkidu in clothes fit for society seems to correspond with Gilgamesh's, not going naked, but clothing himself in lion skins. I am looking for more symmetry between Enkidu and Gilgamesh's arcs. Is there any correspondence between Shamhat having sex with Enkidu for 7 days and Gilgamesh's grieving for Enkidu for 7 nights?

For the space of seven days and seven nights did Enkidu lie with the temple priestess,
Davis, Gerald J.. Gilgamesh: The New Translation (Tablet I)

For the space of six days and seven nights did Gilgamesh mourn Enkidu, and he would in nowise suffer his friend to be buried, until, at last, a maggot crawled out of his nostril.
Davis, Gerald J.. Gilgamesh: The New Translation (Tablet IX)

I can only think the former marks Enkidu's transition into society while the later marks Gilgamesh's transition away from it.

[David]

The Lombardo translation ends Tablet IX with Shiduri watching Gilgamesh. The Davis Translation ends Tablet IX with Gilgamesh's response to Shamash with

Whereat Gilgamesh did make reply unto glorious Shamash in this manner, “Shall I, after I have roamed hither and thither across the expanse of the wilderness as a wanderer, lay my head down within the bowels of the Earth, and slumber throughout the years forever and ever? Let mine eyes behold the Sun, and be sated with the light. Yea, let the darkness be banished, if only for a brief moment. For when shall the man who is dead ever gaze upon the light of the Sun?”
Davis, Gerald J.. Gilgamesh: The New Translation (Tablet IX)

First I think even in his grief this shows Gilgamesh has is gaining some awareness, however dim, that life is brief and death is final. Secondly it sounds very Shakespearean. I thought of both the "To be or not to be" speech from Hamlet. and the "Out out brief candle" speech from Macbeth.

[Tamara]

David wrote: "I can only think the former marks Enkidu's transition into society while the later marks Gilgamesh's transition away from it..."

Agreed, but I'm wondering why does Gilgamesh transition away from society.

If, as we said in an earlier post, the wilderness represents raw nature, chaos, the dream realm and is the domain of the feminine, maybe what is suggested here is Gilgamesh has to cast off the trappings/support structures of society; go back to being primitive, animal like; and stand naked and raw like a new born babe before he can rebuild himself and experience transformation.

[Tamara]

Something interesting happens when Gilgamesh explains to Siduri and the others his exploits with Enkidu:

“Enkidu and I
It was we who joined forces, climbed mountains,
Grappled and killed the Bull from the skies,
Crushed Humbaba, who lived in the Cedar Forest,
And butchered lions in the mountain passes.”

Gilgamesh messes up the sequence of events. They kill Humbaba before they kill the Bull of Heaven. And Enkidu wasn’t with him when he killed the lions in the mountain pass because Enkidu was already dead. I think this is supposed to reflect Gilgamesh is confused and disoriented. He is vulnerable, afraid, and has lost his bearings. It's a very effective way of showing his state of mind.

[David]

Tamara wrote: "Gilgamesh messes up the sequence of events. "

I noticed the sequence was out of order but thought it was either poetic license, or they were listed in some order of Mesopotamian importance. I like the idea of it being a demonstration of Gilgamesh's confused state.

Lombardo matches what your translation has.

Then Gilgamesh said to the tavern-keeper:
“My friend Enkidu and I, we teamed up,
We climbed mountains, we caught and killed
The Bull of Heaven, killed Humbaba too
In the Cedar Forest, and lions up in the high passes.”
Beckman, Gary; Lombardo, Stanley. Gilgamesh (Tablet X)

Davis is a little different because Gilgamesh speaks of himself alone doing these things without mentioning he teamed up or joined forces with Enkidu.

Gilgamesh said unto Siduri, the Maker of Wine, “I am Gilgamesh, King of high-wall’d Uruk, who vanquished Humbaba, Guardian of the Forest of Cedars. I am Gilgamesh, King of high-wall’d Uruk, who seized and slaughtered the Bull of Heaven. I am Gilgamesh, King of high-wall’d Uruk, who put to rout and smote lions in the mountain passes.”
Davis, Gerald J.. Gilgamesh: The New Translation (Tablet X)

The difference in translations suggests that Gilgamesh is even more confused than either translation alone. In addition to the confused order, he is a "we" with Enkidu in one and but he is an "I", in the other. Is he having an identity crisis as well? An Identity crisis is also supported in all translations by the mix of accomplishments he did with Enkidu and the lions which he killed himself without Enkidu.

[David]

He seems to have recovered some of his senses and identity when he tells Utanapishtim of his trials by getting the order of events correct and what he did alone and what he did together with Enkidu.

. . .And should I not wander the wilderness clad in lion skins in pursuit of the wind? My friend, Enkidu, my comrade, who hunted the swift wild stallion of the hills and the panther of the plains, has met the Fate of all mankind. We together overcame all manner of hardship and travail, and ascended the mountain. Together we vanquished and killed Humbaba, Guardian of the Forest of Cedars, and together we seized and slew the Bull of Heaven. But then did untimely Death take him from me. So I did mourn him for the space of six days and seven nights, and did not consign him to the tomb until a maggot crawled out of his nostril.
Davis, Gerald J.. Gilgamesh: The New Translation (Tablet X)

[David]

Tamara wrote: ". . .but I'm wondering why does Gilgamesh transition away from society.

If, as we said in an earlier post, the wilderness represents raw nature, chaos, the dream realm and is the domain of the feminine. . ."

I must have missed the part where nature corresponds to the feminine domain. I would have thought it would be the other way around with Shamhat's orders to, Give him to know the wiles of a woman to start his transformation from the wild.

I don't know if Gilgamesh has to travel from the wild back to civilization or just experience the wild to balance himself out with the civilization experience he already has by finding his place in civilization.

[Tamara]

David wrote: "He seems to have recovered some of his senses and identity when he tells Utanapishtim of his trials by getting the order of events correct and what he did alone and what he did together with Enkidu..."

Another difference in the translations. The Helle translation still has him mixing up the order of events when he talks to Utnapishtim:

"It was we who joined forces, climbed mountains,
grappled and kill the Bull of Heaven,
crushed Humbaba, who lived in the Cedar Forest,
and butchered lions in the mountain passes."

It's interesting to compare the translations. The differences lend themselves to different interpretations of the epic.

[Tamara]

David wrote: "I must have missed the part where nature corresponds to the feminine domain. I would have thought it would be the other way around with Shamhat's orders to, Give him to know the wiles of a woman to start his transformation from the wild..."

I see Shamhat as the vehicle that brings about Enkidu's transformation. In a sense, she is like a midwife: she helps Enkidu give birth to his new identity as a man of the city.

I associate the wilderness with chaos, forces that are not amenable to logic, a place where rules and regulations don't apply. I also see it as a psychic space, the dark recesses of the mind, the subconscious, the dream world.

I associate it with the feminine because Shamhat is in charge in the wilderness. She is the vehicle of Enkidu's transformation which occurs in the wilderness. She takes second-place as soon as they enter Uruk by walking behind Enkidu. I see the city as masculine space.

Also, it is women and Enkidu (because he was born and lived in the wilderness and, therefore, has access to that realm) who are familiar with that realm and, therefore, capable of interpreting dreams.

[Tamara]

We know from the opening prologue that Gilgamesh returns from his trip to the wilderness a changed man. What we don't know yet is what precipitated that transformation. He is still the same aggressive Gilgamesh he was before. He threatens Siduri and bashes in the Stone Ones. He still wallows in self-pity and is afraid of death.

Strange things happen to him while he is in the wilderness. He is stripped of the support structures and rules and regulations of civilized society and goes back in time, becoming almost animal-like with his animal pelts and eating animal flesh. It's as if he has been stripped down to the essentials of what it means to be human.

He encounters weird creatures and unusual places while in the wilderness: the scorpion people who are half scorpion, half people; the Stone Ones. He enters the dark tunnel, which I think can be read as equivalent to the birth canal. He emerges in the garden of the gods. Emergence from darkness into light usually signifies an awakening/a transformation. But this hasn't happened to Gilgamesh yet because we still see evidence of his aggression. He crosses the Waters of Death. Water is associated with birth, but these are the Waters of Death which suggest to me his old self has to die before he can be re-born. And now he ends up with Utnapishtim to learn his secret of immortality.

I think what is happening here is the groundwork is being laid for Gilgamesh's transformation. It has yet to occur. But we know it will occur in the wilderness (his immersion in the chaos and dark realm) because the prologue has told us he will emerge from this experience a changed man.

Thems my thoughts.

[Lily]

(Just lost my post -- so will just say thanks for your fascinating explorations of meaning, of "reality", of scholars, of "story telling," of....

[David]

Well, what do you know? Siduri, tells us the answer to the meaning of life over 4,000 years ago, and yet, we never stopped trying to make 6x9=42*. Maybe the real mystery is why have we not just accepted this and moved on?

“As for you, Gilgamesh, let your stomach always be full.
Be of good cheer each day and each night.
Fill each day with merriment.
With dancing and rejoicing let every day be abounding.
Fresh and clean should be your raiment.
Aye, let your hair be clean washed.
Bathe yourself in pure water.
Cherish the little child who holds your hand.
Bring joy to the loins of your wife.
This, then, is the work of man.”
—Davis, Gerald J., Gilgamesh: The New Translation (Tablet X)

Note: I cannot find a corresponding speech in the Lombardo translation.

*Adams, Douglas. The Restaurant at the End of the Universe. Random House Worlds.

[Tamara]

David wrote: "Well, what do you know? Siduri, tells us the answer to the meaning of life over 4,000 years ago, and yet, we never stopped trying to make 6x9=42*. Maybe the real mystery is why have we not just acc..."

Siduri's lines are from an Old Babylonian poem. They show up in some translations, but they're not included in the Standard Babylonian Gilgamesh. The Helle translation doesn't include them.

I've read them before. I like the emphasis on personal hygiene. And I love the lines where she tells him the work of man is to cherish his child and please his wife sexually. The first part is basically telling him to eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow you may die.

[Chris]

David wrote: Well, what do you know? Siduri, tells us the answer to the meaning of life over 4,000 years ago, and yet, we never stopped trying to make 6x9=42*. Maybe the real mystery is why have we not just accepted this and moved on
I was struck by the similar lines that Mitchell has as well in his version. It does require maturity to accept that death is our future and with that acceptance we should and can appreciate and enjoy life while we can. I think we agree that Gilgamesh has not reached that maturity yet. He is driven by fear at this point and continues to behave in an aggressive and impulsive way as is seen with his attack & destruction of the Stone Men.

[Tamara]

I found Utnapishtim's musings on the nature of death very effective.

The quality he emphasizes is its suddenness. He says it "snaps" mankind. It abducts us. It is quick, sudden--not slow and lingering. He characterizes it as "savage" death. We can't see death or hear it. And we can't predict its timing. Death causes a sequence of events: the house we built may lead to bitterness and feuding among our heirs after we're gone.

The image of the mayfly floating down the river is particularly telling. The fragile mayfly captures our fragility as humans. Just as the mayfly is carried by the river, we are carried by time towards our own death. And just like the mayfly "could see nothing," we cannot see when or how we will end.

What we are left with is the certainty we will die; what we are also left with is the uncertainty of when, where, or how it will happen. So the only thing we can possibly know about death is its certainty.

Utnapishtim's musings on death are effective. I find them deeply moving.

[Michael]

I'm still digesting these tablets and don't have a take yet.

- Thank you, Tamara, for calling out the inverted process Gilgamesh takes compared to Enkidu's civilizing. Also, for making clear he had to get through the tunnel in 24 hours. I think the Helle translation calls out that he travelled for 24 hours but I didn't make the connection. If I recall correctly, the Dalley translation measures his progress in leagues travelled so the urgency is lost I think.

- Thank you, David, for the excerpt with Siduri's life advice.

- Thank you, Roger, for bringing Achilles in as a foil.

[Tamara]

Michael wrote: "I'm still digesting these tablets and don't have a take yet.

- Thank you, Tamara, for calling out the inverted process Gilgamesh takes compared to Enkidu's civilizing. Also, for making clear he h..."

You're more than welcome, Michael. I'm glad you've caught up with us. I'm really enjoying your insights and comments.

[Tamara]

There is so much I love about this epic, including the language. I offer this as an example:

Utnapishtim notices something isn’t right when he sees Urshanabi and Gilgamesh approaching on the boat. The Stone Ones are missing; there’s a new rigging; and a stranger travels with Urshanabi. I love the lines describing Utnapishtim’s thought process. I get such a kick out of them:

Utnapishtim was watching them at a distance.
He conversed with his heart, speaking to himself,
Taking counsel in his own mind:

“I’m conversing with my heart and taking counsel in my mind,” is far more delicious than saying, “I’m thinking.”

[Michael]

Tamara wrote: "I’m conversing with my heart and taking counsel in my mind,” is far more delicious than saying, “I’m thinking..."

Let me noodle on that :)

[Tamara]

Michael wrote: "Let me noodle on that :)"

That's almost as delicious as conversing with my heart!

[David]

I noodled over that and decided that David Hume would approve.

Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office than to serve and obey them.
Hume, David. A Treatise of Human Nature

Utnapishtim isn’t merely thinking—he is letting his heart guide his motivations, as only the passions can, while allowing his mind to act as the guardrails, determining the best course of action. This perfectly aligns with Hume’s argument: reason alone cannot drive action; it serves the passions by helping us pursue what we already desire.

[Tamara]

David wrote: "Utnapishtim isn’t merely thinking—he is letting his heart guide his motivations, as only the passions can, while allowing his mind to act as the guardrails, determining the best course of action. This perfectly aligns with Hume’s argument: reason alone cannot drive action; it serves the passions by helping us pursue what we already desire.."

Great point.
I like that it gives primacy to the heart, the seat of compassion.

[Michael]

Susana - Absolutely, gods meddle in our business because their bored and have nothing better to do :)

[Michael]

I'm trying to work out a geography of this place.

- We have the mortal living world
- A magic forest where some gods like to hang out sometimes and people aren't supposed to go to
- The underworld which seems dreary and is nearly always a one way trip (Ishtar being an exception - you can read The Descent of Ishtar for an account)
- this "heavenly" place full of light with crystaline and jeweled fruits that humans aren't expected to be able to travel to... but there is an ale-maid (does heaven require an ale-maid?)
- and, I'm not sure where it is that Uta-napishti stands. I believe it is a specific area of this special place.

In the Helle translation, Uta-napishti seems to suggest that Gilgamesh, as 2/3 god, has a place there.

Why, Gilgamesh, do you always chase grief?
You, fashioned from the flesh of gods and men,
made to be like you mother and father!
Gilgamesh, when were you ever mindful of the fool?
They placed a throne in the assembly and told you: 'Sit!'

[Tamara]

Michael wrote: "- and, I'm not sure where it is that Uta-napishti stands. I believe it is a specific area of this special place.."

Utnapishtim is on an island called Dilmun.
To get there, do the following:
Cross the waters on the shore of the garden of the gods until you get to the Waters of Death.
Cross the Waters of Death but make sure you don't touch a drop or you're gone forever.
The Waters of Death will get you to the island of Dilmun where Utnapishtim and his wife reside.

[David]

Michael wrote: "In the Helle translation, Uta-napishti seems to suggest that Gilgamesh, as 2/3 god, has a place there."

The Davis translation is expressed this way:

At this did Utanapishtim say unto Gilgamesh, “Why, O Gilgamesh, are you so wretched? Such self-pity is unseemly. You were formed from the flesh of Gods and men. The Gods did favor you as if they were your fathers and mothers. Have you ever, O Gilgamesh, compared your lot with that of a fool? For you did the Gods set a throne in the Assembly and suffer you to rule. The fool is given remainders of unfermented yeast in the stead of butter, coarse bran and offal in the stead of fine bread. The fool wears sackcloth in the stead of splendid apparel. In the stead of a magnificent sash does he wear an old rope. Since no advisors counsel him, he knows not what to do. Think on the fool, O Gilgamesh, and compare your lot to his.
Davis, Gerald J.. Gilgamesh: The New Translation (Tablet X)

I see a very strong correspondence to Shamash's reminder to Enkidu when Enkidu cursed Shamhat.

When Shamash, the Sun God, heard these words of Enkidu, he did call out to him from the Heavens, “O Enkidu, why curse you the temple harlot Shamhat? Bread fit for a God did she feed unto you. Wine fit for a King did she pour for you. She did clothe you in splendid raiment. And, for a comrade, she did give unto you well-favored Gilgamesh. Now shall Gilgamesh, your friend and your brother, grant you to lie down upon a magnificent bed. Gilgamesh will have you rest upon a bed of honor near unto his left hand. And then shall the Princes of the Earth kiss your feet. The dwellers in Uruk will bewail and bemoan and lament your Death. The pleasure-seeking people of Uruk will be overcome with woe. And, after you are dead, Gilgamesh will let his hair grow long and matted, and will don the pelt of a lion, and will wander throughout the length and breadth of the wilderness in mourning.”
Davis, Gerald J.. Gilgamesh: The New Translation (Tablet VII)

Utanapishtim advises Gilgamesh, as Shamash advised Enkidu to shift their perspective by taking things by the smooth handle. The lesson from both seems to be, instead of resentment for what is lost, appreciate what you have had, or did not have to suffer like the fool does.

[Tamara]

David wrote: "The Davis translation is expressed this way:At this did Utanapishtim say unt..."

The Davis translation you cite is more elaborate than the Helle translation.

One difference between the advice to Enkidu versus the advice to Gilgamesh is that Enkidu heeds the words of Shamash and is consoled by them whereas the words of Utnapishtim have no impact on Gilgamesh. They go in one ear and come out the other--just as did Siduri's words.

[David]

Tamara wrote: "whereas the words of Utnapishtim have no impact on Gilgamesh."

Davis (Tablet X) ends with the rest of Utanapishtim's advise. So I don't really know how Gilgamesh responds yet But I am not surprised that Gilgamesh would require a little more convincing. 😉

[Michael]

Tamara - Is Dilmun a separate place from this region of light or is it a place within it? If we call this region of light, heaven, is Dilmun a neighborhood within heaven or not in heaven at all?

In the map I have in my head, the Cedar Forest is a sub-region or the place inhabited by living mortals. I think I'm imagining Dilmun's relationship to this new place Gilgamesh has accessed in a similar way.

----_
David - That Davis translation is beautiful and I think you are right about it being counsel to change his attitude.

[Michael]

The description of the jeweled garden reminded me some of Plato's Socrates describing the true surface of the earth in the Phaedo. It is the place or heaven he believes true philosophers should aspire to go to; the place he hopes to go to after he drinks poison (his death sentence for corrupting the youth of Athens) at the end of his story.

we live round the sea like ants or frogs round a swamp... but the Earth's true surface is as pure as the starry heaven in which it lies... we are living in its hollows... we assume we are living on the surface... we are too feeble and sluggish to make our way out to the upper limit of the air... this earth and its stones and all the regions in which we lie are marred and corroded

The earth's true surface is adorned not only with all these stones [referring to gemstones mentioned in a part I ommitted] but also with gold and silver and other metals... communion with the gods occur there face to face... they see the sun and moon and stars as they really are.

[Tamara]

Michael wrote: "Tamara - Is Dilmun a separate place from this region of light or is it a place within it? If we call this region of light, heaven, is Dilmun a neighborhood within heaven or not in heaven at all?

I..."

Dilmun has to be separate from the garden of the gods because Gilgamesh has to cross waters to get there. And if you recall, Siduri tells him that only Shamash can cross the waters. In any case, the geography is not intended to be realistic. It's not mapped out in a way that we think of as a map. I view it the same way I view the poem's references to size, distances, and time. I don't take them literally. I see them as metaphors--as non-literal ways of communicating ideas, concepts, truths, etc.

BTW: Utnapishtim is known as Utnapishtim-the-Far-Away because he is located far from anywhere else. This will become clearer in Tablet XI.

[Michael]

Tamara wrote: "Utnapishtim is known as Utnapishtim-the-Far-Away because he is located far from anywhere else..."

Thanks, good point.

I am a visual thinker and do have a diagram of sorts in my head that represents the relationships between all of these places. I can't help it. :)

[David]