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This topic is about
Call Me Joe
New School Classics- 1915-2005
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Call Me Joe - Moderators Run Amok
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Gandalf Grand Master of Fantasy (1978)
Hugo Award (seven wins)
John W. Campbell Memorial Award (2000)
Inkpot Award (1986)
Locus Award (41 nominations; one win, 1972)
Mythopoeic Fantasy Award (one win (1975))
Nebula Award (three wins)
Pegasus Award (best adaptation, with Anne Passovoy) (1998)
Prometheus Award (five wins including the Hall of Fame award as well as Special Prometheus Award for Lifetime Achievement in 2001)
SFWA Grand Master (1997)
Science Fiction and Fantasy Hall of Fame (2000)
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Key points about science fiction:
1. Speculative nature:
It explores hypothetical scenarios based on scientific possibilities, even if they are not currently achievable.
2. Futuristic setting:
Most science fiction stories take place in the future, allowing for the exploration of advanced technology and societal changes.
3. Themes of human impact:
Sci-fi often examines the consequences of technological advancements on humanity, including ethical dilemmas and societal shifts.
4. "What if" questions:
Authors frequently pose hypothetical questions about potential scientific breakthroughs and their implications.
5. Unfamiliar worlds:
Science fiction stories may feature alien planets, parallel universes, or drastically altered versions of Earth.
Poul Anderson also wrote The Broken Sword, a book with an heir and a broken sword that must be reforged, and elves and magic, the same year as LoTR by Tolkien, although a few months later.
Lynn wrote: "I am trying something new. I was going to put this in my own words, but instead thought it would be fun to use AI. I asked what makes Science Fiction unique as a literary genre. AI saysKey points..."
The other day I was watching Al Gore talk and it was how uncanny robotics have become, to the point of imitating humans.
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There are several things you will not find in most Science Fiction stories. Science Fiction tends to focus on one innovation or problem to be solved without side stories the way other forms of writing will do. You rarely see deep character development outside of the core issue the story is investigating. Many readers find the characters flat for that reason. I prefer the writer focus on the core issue without the distractions.
The stories will reflect the time period in which they are written. The first story was published in 1957. It has a post WW2 feel, in my opinion, where the future is optimistic. The post-apocalyptic atmosphere of an author like Philip K. Dick hasn't arrived on the scene yet.
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I am glad to see you comment so quickly. I know you are a fan. The Broken Sword is still on my to-read list for this year.
"What does it mean to be human?"Humans. Sigh. Once, about a million years ago, the forests of some part of Africa were receding, leaving the more exposed Savannah, which contained much less food. Some stronger apes pushed and drove the weaker apes of the same species, from the bountiful forests to the more exposed land.
To see above the tall grass, these loser apes had to stand upright. Boom, humans.
Among all mammals. apes are the exceptions in the way that we see the world. Most mammals, dogs, cows, etc see the world in lesser colours. It is only due to the fact that humans needed to see reddish fruits or juicy green leaves did we (us?) get a gene that allowed us to see in more colours than our ancestors. Our eyes became trichromatic. Many apes of the New World are still dichromatic though, except for the Howler Monkeys.
One in 12 women are tetrachromatic, because one of the colour genes are located in their X chromosomes. Women are XX, men are XY. Contrastingly, 1 in 12 men are dichromatic.
Finally, it is weird how humans exist. We are 75 % water, we are blobs of wet flesh with electricity powering and running through our fleshy and sweet brains. Each 7 years of our existence we lose all our previous atoms that made us up. So a 7 year old child is literally distancing themselves from their mother by ditching all their atoms that they inherited from birth. For kids it might be less than 7 years though.
Lynn wrote: "Luffy Sempai wrote: "Poul Anderson also wrote The Broken Sword, a book with an heir and a broken sword that must be reforged, and elves and magic, the same year as LoTR by Tolkien, although a few m..."Thank you. Hope you read it. It is much less weird than Dhalgren e,g,, possibly because of Tolkien's influence and popularity.
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Humans. Sigh. Once, about a million years ago, the forests of some part of Africa were receding, leaving the more exposed Savannah, which contained much less food...."
Luffy your last paragraph makes me think of They're Made Out of Meat by Terry Bisson. Bisson writes with a unique combination of Science fiction and humor.
Lynn wrote: "Luffy Sempai wrote: ""What does it mean to be human?"Humans. Sigh. Once, about a million years ago, the forests of some part of Africa were receding, leaving the more exposed Savannah, which cont..."
Thanks for the rec! Bisson is not mentioned in my YT circles of tired recommendations. So thanks for pointing me in his direction.
Great pick, Lynn! At your recommendation I read Call Me Joe last year. It made me want to read more of Anderson's writing! I think this group will enjoy it. Also, I really liked They're Made Out of Meat! So interesting!!
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Luffy Sempai wrote: "Poul Anderson also wrote The Broken Sword, a book with an heir and a broken sword that must be reforged, and elves and magic, the same year as LoTR by Tolkien, although a few months later."There were some really interesting elements in The Broken Sword which, if they had been explored further, I felt it could have really been something special. However, the story became so unremittingly bleak that everything that befell the main characters felt quite predictable to me.
But no book will be perfect for all readers and I have been wanting to read more by the author and look forward to reading this short story! :)
Erin wrote: "Luffy Sempai wrote: "Poul Anderson also wrote The Broken Sword, a book with an heir and a broken sword that must be reforged, and elves and magic, the same year as LoTR by Tolkien, although a few m..."Glad you did not dislike TBS entirely. Most original work can be very forbidding for the author to put even more effort for the nitty gritty of the process. To be honest I don't like most of his sci fi novels.
I read it, after it was recommended in the nomination tread some years ago. I realised how much of the classical sci-fi I was missing, and ended up reading all threeThe Science Fiction Hall of Fame, Volume One, 1929-1964
The Science Fiction Hall of Fame: Volume II A and
The Science Fiction Hall of Fame: Volume II B.
The first book is chronological. The last two are alphabetic. I rebelled and read the stories chronologically. I can recommend doing that. There is a clear development from psychology to nuclear.
I love this idea, Lynn. I'm not usually motivated to read sci-fi on my own but I often like it when there is a group read. I'm Looking forward to this.
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[book:The Science Fiction Hall ..."
You're right about the Hall of Fame books. They are a great overview of the "Golden Age" Sci Fi. They also give a variety of authors. I have read a story in a Hall of Fame book then searched for more from the author; repeat, repeat.
This looks interesting and I love sci fi, so I'll be in for this one for sure. Have not heard of this author, so I'm intrigued. I'll join in!
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Lynn, New School Classics
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On that topic (robots that are uncanny in their similarity to humans), isn't it ironic that contemporary stories written today contain elements that would have qualified them for the Science Fiction genre if they had been written 75 years ago? Or the corollary to that idea would be that when reading a Science Fiction story from the early 20th Century we might think that everything in it seems quite normal to us now.
Lynn wrote: "Luffy Sempai wrote: "Lynn wrote: "I am trying something new. I was going to put this in my own words, but instead thought it would be fun to use AI. I asked what makes Science Fiction unique as a l..."This is true! I was reading The Machine Stops and everything seemed quite normal with the main oddity to me being characters using buttons instead of touchscreens — then I looked at the publication date (which I’d forgotten) and was blown away! It’s one of my favorite short stories and so prescient in more than only the technology!
Reading Lynn's comment I also immediately though of The Machine Stops. That story is crazy seen with today's eyes. I wonder what people though of it in 1909.And it is not unlikely that we will live to see people living in a colony on Mars.
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My husband and I just finished listening to it from the Science Fiction Hall of Fame Volume 2A. (That's what version my library had.) We really enjoyed it. It brought my husband to mind of another, older story which we then dug up & read. It's my understanding that we're supposed to save stories that influenced or were influenced by for later.
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LOL Sara. I hope I haven't led you astray.
Lynn, this is a great choice! "Call Me Joe" isn't just about futuristic technology, and there is a wonderful human element to it. The emotional outlooks of Ed and Joe, and the understanding attitude of Jan Cornelius make it a memorable story.
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“The wind came whooping out of the eastern darkness, driving a lash of ammonia dust before it.”
“Lightning cracked, immensely far overhead where clouds boiled with night."
" As if to reply, thunder toned in ice mountains and red gout of flame jumped and a hillside came booming down, spilling itself across the valley. The earth shivered.”
Jupiter doesn't sound like a fun place to visit.
Those are powerful descriptive passages that you have chosen, Bob, and sound dangerous for a human. Since Joe is not human, he does not have the same fears and sees the beauty in the wild, colorful environment. It's interesting that Ed has had to change his thinking away from a human reaction, enabling Joe not to fear his environment and instead look for ways to work with his surroundings.
Agree Bob about he vividness of the descriptions. I just started this one last night and seeing where it is headed. I heard there are a lot of similarities of this story and the film Avatar, a film I never saw.
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Sara wrote: "Interesting, Franky, but I thought of Avatar immediately. I would be very surprised to find that Cameron was not well acquainted with this story before he wrote his."Sara, I have found a few videos on You Tube dedicated to the similarities of the two. I started watching one last night, but I stopped a little early because I think there are some spoilers.
Has anyone read Desertion by Clifford Simak? I am not widely read in sci-fi but Simak's could have influenced Poul Anderson.
I just finished this story. I enjoyed it. As others have mentioned, it's a very clear influence on the film Avatar.My favourite part was not the interactions between Ed and Joe, but the conversations between Cornelius and Viken. For me, that's where the heart of the story lies. Those conversations get at the philosophy and psychology behind what's occurring in the story.
I'm not sure I agree, Sara, that Ed is no longer human at the end of the story. I agree that the story makes the case that humanity is about the mind (thoughts, feelings, perhaps soul). Ed still has that, so in the context of the story he is still human. Whether the definition of humanity would extend so far in real life, I couldn't say. But I think it would. It actually kind of reminded me of an anime TV show I quite like: Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood. A young boy loses his body, and his mind/soul is bonded to an empty suit of armor that he can use to move around; he is still considered human by those around him. After all, if someone is still themselves, how can they no longer be human (I think I'd feel this way if something like this happened to a loved one).
At the same time, I have also heard a species defined as (here from Wikipedia): the largest group of organisms in which any two individuals of the appropriate sexes or mating types can produce fertile offspring. This is a purely physical definition of species, and by this definition, Ed is clearly a different species (and therefore no longer human): in his current body, he would not be able to mate with a human and produce fertile offspring (or likely any offspring); the differences in DNA are too big.
I kind of like that there is no single answer to the question "Is he still human?". The answer changes based on which definition of human you use. This seems appropriate for a thinking sci-fi story.
Here is my favourite quote from the story, which really rings true to me:
I’ve yet to see any problem, however complicated, which when you looked at it the right way didn’t become still more complicated.
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When Ed dies, I think his soul would pass elsewhere and he would not have given that to Joe, only his thoughts that amount to electrical impulses. Very difficult thing to nail down and requires some real wrestling, which is often the point of science fiction--it is meant to make us think about possibilities rather than absolutes.
Ah, well now you're bringing in questions that are way above my pay grade:- Does the soul exist?
- If yes, what is it? Is it different from the set of your thoughts and feelings?
- If yes, is it necessarily tied to your body during your body's lifetime? If we found a way to transfer thoughts and feelings, would that enable us to transfer the soul as well?
Of course, I don't have answers to any of these questions, but for such a short sci-fi story, it's brought us fairly quickly to deep waters.
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Sara, what profound questions you’ve brought up. I don’t read much sci-fi at all so someone better informed might be able to help with the problem of the soul you’ve brought up here. I’m wondering if the soul is something sci-fi writers consider when writing a story such as this? I don’t know. Usually we think of the alien, robot, creature - the inhuman being - as just that - not human. Yet there are stories that give inhuman beings human like qualities. But I wouldn’t ever consider that they have souls. It’s definitely an interesting thing to think bout. I would have trouble believing Ed’s soul would transfer to Joe as well. We already have to understand that Ed gave up his broken body when his consciousness transferred over to the Joe creature.I could not read this without images of Avatar running through my mind.
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Yes, I have read and like the story Desertion and Clifford D. Simak as an author. If you want to read more try the fix-up novel City. Simak uses "Desertion" as one of the chapters in the larger book.
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Nice responses Sara. I often wondered if it was ethical for Ed to "take over" Joe's body. Was it a willing merger on Joe's part? Was Joe a sentient being that deserved autonomy? Did the human created body of Joe have a personality or a soul? I think that if there is a weak point in this story it is that Joe as a character is barely explored. Does Joe just stop to function when Ed is not controlling him?
When Anglesey returns to the control room he still has a sense of Joe's sleeping brain that is separate from his own consciousness.
There are other Science Fiction books/stories that toy with this idea of "body snatching". Examples might be The Host by Stephenie Meyer, a Young Adult series called The Animorphs The Invasion by K.A. Applegate, the short story Passengers by Robert Silverberg.
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My favourite part was not the interactions between Ed and Joe, but the conversat..."
Wobbley wrote "I kind of like that there is no single answer to the question "Is he still human?". The answer changes based on which definition of human you use. This seems appropriate for a thinking sci-fi story. "
I agree, there's no clear answer is there? One reason this story made me think of the question though is found in the opening of the story. We meet Ed Anglesey on the surface of Jupiter when he is Joe. Joe has worked hard all day but without the proper tools. Joe has built a ride home and found food, but he lies down to sleep thinking, "Give him a few years and he'd be living as a man should." There is the idea of recreating a human civilization on Jupiter. It should be like Earth, but with a different environment and suitable bodies to withstand the elements.
Earlier Annette mentioned Desertion by Clifford D. Simak where living as a man should is not thought of in the same way.
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There is always so much more to these stories than first appears, isn't there? I like that it spurs so many different questions and causes us to look closer. It becomes more and more about "what makes us human in the first place?" and "what does being human really mean?" So, you posed the perfect question at the outset!
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Thanks Lynn, the issue of Joe's personality (or perhaps soul???) being suppressed was somehow something I didn't consider. But that's a really good point! The characters also seem to ignore the possibility that the project has perhaps basically killed a possibly sentient consciousness. For a shortish story, this one has a lot of ideas.
Catching up on Classics (and lots more!)
Books mentioned in this topic
Masterpieces: The Best Science Fiction of the Twentieth Century (other topics)Desertion (other topics)
Passengers (other topics)
The Invasion (other topics)
The Host (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Clifford D. Simak (other topics)K.A. Applegate (other topics)
Robert Silverberg (other topics)
Stephenie Meyer (other topics)
Clifford D. Simak (other topics)
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The choice is Call Me Joe by Poul Anderson (1957). This short story is available in multiple short story collections. Here are two. It can also be purchased as a single story on Kindle.
The Collected Short Works of Poul Anderson, Volume 1: Call Me Joe
The Science Fiction Hall of Fame: Volume II A
Masterpieces: The Best Science Fiction of the Twentieth Century