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What are we reading? 17/02/2024
AB76 wrote: ".just started Ice Station Zebra by Alistair Maclean(1963), felt like a good old cold war thriller."I've seen the film, a long time ago.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063121/...
Gpfr wrote: "RussellinVT wrote: "FrancesBurgundy wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: ""Serviette", je suppose? :-)""
OK GP I've tried out the actual sentence with DeepL,, changing a few words. Pretty good I must admit, but not perfect :
ils s'amusèrent du départ de leur gendre le matin: en costume cravate, à vélo, avec sa serviette autour du cou
they were amused by their son-in-law's departure in the morning: in suit and tie, on his bike, with his briefcase around his neck (?)
Ils s'amusèrent du départ de leur gendre le matin: en costume cravate, à vélo, avec sa serviette dans la poche
they were amused by their son-in-law's departure in the morning: in suit and tie, on his bike, with his briefcase in his pocket (?)
ils s'amusèrent du départ de leur gendre le matin: à vélo, avec sa serviette et son savon
they were amused by their son-in-law's departure in the morning: on his bike, with his towel and soap
ils s'amusèrent du départ de leur gendre le matin: à vélo, avec sa serviette et son rasoir
they were amused by their son-in-law's departure in the morning: on his bike, with his briefcase and razor
and finally ...
ils s'amusèrent du départ de leur gendre le matin: à vélo, avec sa serviette et sa serviette
they were amused by their son-in-law's departure in the morning: on his bike, with his towel and his briefcase
Goodnight
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"
OK GP I've tried out the actual sentence with DeepL,, changing a few words. Pretty good... but not perfect..."
Not perfect indeed! Though these sites never are. When I was creating material for teaching English in a big insurance company, one of the modules we did was on the risks of using translation sites (no DeepL at that time to put in the mix). Some of the examples I got from the different sites were hilarious, I'll have to try to remember them. I know one was from a claim for water damage, where" burst pipes" were translated as une rafale de pipes. Rafale being a word one could use for a burst of gunfire and pipe not referring to what your tap water comes through. Apart from being wrongly translated, it made no sense in French.
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"
OK GP I've tried out the actual sentence with DeepL,, changing a few words. Pretty good..."
That last one in particular is pretty impressive.
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A few years ago I read The Winter Queen – the first in the series? - an enjoyable mystery, with excellent atmospherics, until about two thirds of the way through when the story span off into a convoluted conspiracy theory. I haven’t been tempted to try others. But he sounds multi-talented.
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FrancesBurgundy wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "RussellinVT wrote: "FrancesBurgundy wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: ""Serviette", je suppose? :-)""
OK GP I've tried out the actual sentence with DeepL,, changing a few words. Pretty good..."
Interesting examples - are they meant to make sense?
1. 'autour du cou'... OK, the serviette here could be a napkin, which the young (?) man has forgotten to remove after his breakfast. Alternatively, it could be that he has a satchel, with its strap 'around his neck'. I was also tempted to consider 'cravat' or 'muffler', but rejected these as he's already wearing a tie... though he could consider wearing a muffler* over a tie, I suppose.
2. 'dans la poche' - a napkin? or a paper towel/tissue? Not a briefcase anyway!
I'm not sure what to make of the other examples!
In general, when 'translating' - by which I mean most often 'translating for myself' a word or passage I don't understand - the context provides clues as to which meaning is intended when a word gives several possible choices. I can be quite stubborn when tracking these words or phrases down. One of the reasons I especially enjoy François-Henri Désérable's writing is that - often - a word he chooses can have more than one meaning, and that he is being deliberately playful in intending both meanings to be understood. Or, sometimes, the word (or phrase) has a particular cultural resonance. Because my French is imperfect, I suspect that being forced to check some of his texts sometimes gives me a better and deeper appreciation of what he does than that gained by native speakers, who might be more inclined to take the words at face value and only consider the most common or obvious meaning.
*So as not to confuse any American readers, I don't visualise our hero riding about with metal pipework around his neck... a 'muffler' in the UK is a type of scarf! Looking around for a picture, I came across a few such as this one on the Hermes site :
https://www.hermes.com/uk/en/product/...
They cost an arm and a leg!
RussellinVT wrote: "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom – I checked with our son, who has been urging me to read it for years. His opinion is very positive. He said it was epic. Indeed, out of all nonfiction epics, he thinks ..."Perhaps he could expand on his reasons for liking it? Neither I or AB could finish it... Or if you read it, you can let us know what we missed!
Sometimes, life is really strange... I came across a positive review of a book called Pastoralia by George Saunders - a series of short stories. They sounded funny, and there was a free link to one - 'Sea Oak' - so I started in*.One of the characters works in 'DrugTown'.. I wondered whether this might be a real chain of drugstores in the US, so googled it to find that (apparently) someone has invented a game by that name. It is described thus:
Drugtown - A role playing game about drugs.
A chance to cook meth, grow weed and build an empire. Weigh your bags. Cut your product. Avoid the police. Eliminate the competition.
I ask you!
*https://barcelonareview.com/20/e_gs.htm
AB76 wrote: "Was going to post a long review of the De Cespedes novel i just finished but its got no traction on the G and minimal in here, so i will leave itIts a superb novel and essential reading for men, ..."
That's good to hear. I hadn't even heard of De Cespedes here in Italy until the recent translation into English and now here books are much more visible and printed.
Have you read any Natalia Ginzburg? I ask because, despite never having read a word from De Cespedes, she always gave me Ginzburg vibes and that has kept me away from her.
Your good opinion of her however is swinging her back towards my read pile
Pastoralia by George SaundersNo - I haven't read the whole book in an hour or two - but I have read one of the stories from it, namely 'Sea Oak':
https://barcelonareview.com/20/e_gs.htm
This turns out to be a surreal tale of a low-rent family living a hand-to-mouth existence. The male narrator works in a sort of Hooters mirror image, where scantily dressed men serve female customers. Then... the glue holding the family together - the aunt dies and (spoiler alert!) later comes back to life and starts to give orders...
A short story, it didn't take me long to read. It's quite amusing up to a point, but felt one paced, like those 'comedy' shows where the jokes come so fast you don't have time to breathe or process, and end up exhausted rather than entertained. In other words, it's sort of 'OK' but nothing special. Sufficient for me to decide to save my money and not buy the collection, anyway. So, that's good.
Paul wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Was going to post a long review of the De Cespedes novel i just finished but its got no traction on the G and minimal in here, so i will leave itIts a superb novel and essential read..."
I havent read any Ginzburg yet but have two novels on piles somewhere.....are you not a Ginzburg fan?
scarletnoir wrote: "RussellinVT wrote: "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom – I checked with our son, who has been urging me to read it for years. His opinion is very positive. He said it was epic. Indeed, out of all nonficti..."it had so much potential, i could not believe something written on the topics Lawrence had to cover in "Seven Pilllars" could be rendered so damn boring but i was 28 or so when i read it and maybe this aged 49yo should try again.
A state visit for Trump to the UK, can 2025 get any worse?At least i'm enjoying my reading......
AB76 wrote: "A state visit for Trump to the UK, can 2025 get any worse?At least i'm enjoying my reading......"
Yes, it could be Putin!
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Is there an obvious change in style from book to book, even if not identifiable as a pastiche of the authors you mention?"
I'm afraid I can't say I noticed this. I've read some of them in French and others in English, too ...
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Listening to writers talk can be a bit risky: I like Donna Leon's Venice-set Guido Brunetti books, but I didn't like her very much in the episode where she talks about Death at La Fenice.
giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "A state visit for Trump to the UK, can 2025 get any worse?At least i'm enjoying my reading......"
Yes, it could be Putin!"
Vlad is having a great 2025, Russia is back in favour with the USA!
AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "A state visit for Trump to the UK, can 2025 get any worse?At least i'm enjoying my reading......"
Yes, it could be Putin!"
Vlad is having a great 2025, Russia i..."
Mmmmm.......
giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "A state visit for Trump to the UK, can 2025 get any worse?At least i'm enjoying my reading......"
Yes, it could be Putin!"
Vlad is having a great 2..."
i think Trump sees a lot of good money making opportunities with Russian organised crime and withe the FBI and CIA run by his cronies, he can make sure nobody knows anything about it
scarletnoir wrote: "AB76 wrote: ".just started Ice Station Zebra by Alistair Maclean(1963), felt like a good old cold war thriller."I've seen the film, a long time ago.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063121/......"
Ice Station Zebra is said to have been Howard Hughes' favorite film. When the reclusive Hughes lived in Las Vegas, he would phone the local TV station, which he owned, and tell them to run his favorite movie...
Robert wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "AB76 wrote: ".just started Ice Station Zebra by Alistair Maclean(1963), felt like a good old cold war thriller."I've seen the film, a long time ago.
https://www.imdb.com/tit..."
its started well, i love novels about the sea and naval life....made me order some Conrad short stories for later in the year....
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Perhaps he could expand on his reasons for liking it?"
He says he just loved the adventure and the guerilla warfare and the strategy, and the insights into Arab culture. He describes the writing style as full of verve and panache. He would agree that some of the early parts are a bit drab, but the last 500 pages absolutely flew by (half of which he read in one day). He wonders if Lawrence modelled himself on Homer – the second chapter is a consideration of all previous commanders in the theatre, their strengths and weaknesses, just the same as the second chapter of The Iliad. Of other books on Arabia he places it above Doughty, Thesiger, Thomas and Philby, though the one which he actually thinks the best for the particular sense of communing with that extraordinary landscape, and which he has read most often, is the Thesiger. His final comment was that just the first paragraph of Seven Pillars on its own is amazing, and I am directed to read it!
RussellinVT wrote: "He says he just loved the adventure and the guerilla warfare and the strategy, and the insights into Arab culture. He describes the writing style as full of verve and panache. He would agree that some of the early parts are a bit drab, but the last 500 pages absolutely flew by (half of which he read in one day). ...His final comment was that just the first paragraph of Seven Pillars on its own is amazing, and I am directed to read it!."I am afraid that I never got beyond the drab bits, and gave up... I also have no recollection of the first paragraph.
My experience was more akin to AB's, who wrote
i could not believe something written on the topics Lawrence had to cover in "Seven Pilllars" could be rendered so damn boring.. above!
Gpfr wrote: "I listened today to Henning Mankell on the World Book Club, (sorry, I'll try not to turn into a bore going on about this!), talking about his first Wallander novel Faceless Killers. I..."I have a feeling that I've seen Mankell being interviewed, but perhaps I'm misremembering and the interview was in a newspaper. He seemed an interesting and impressive person.
I read all the Wallander books and liked most of them (there are a couple of weak ones) and also a few others, of which Italian Shoes, After the Fire and Depths are particularly impressive.
scarletnoir wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "I listened today to Henning Mankell on the World Book Club, (sorry, I'll try not to turn into a bore going on about this!), talking about his first Wallander novel [book:Faceless Kille..."i liked Depths, i read quite a few of his in those early days of the Scando boom before Nesbo and the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo put me off reading anymore
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I am afraid that I never got beyond the drab bits, and gave up... I also have no recollection of the first paragraph.
I went and read the first paragraph. It is certainly very good. Difficult to imagine there are many military leaders with this power of poetic expression. Then I carried on reading for several pages, and it wasn't long before I found myself in very drab territory as well. If I ever read the book, I think perhaps I'll start around page 200.
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the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo ..."
Mankell was quite rude about Stieg Larsson — he said he was a nice guy but the books were bad.
Gpfr wrote: "Mankell was quite rude about Stieg Larsson — he said he was a nice guy but the books were bad..."The 'Girl' books are certainly improbable and melodramatic, but I found them entertaining for all that. (I think it's Bill who really hates them.)
As for Mankell - though most of his books are good or acceptable, he did write a few poor ones - IMO of course: The Dogs of Riga and The White Lioness are two I remember, but there were other disappointments.
RussellinVT wrote: "If I ever read the book, I think perhaps I'll start around page 200...."Sounds like a plan!
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The 'Girl' books are certainly improbable and melodramatic, but I found them entertai..."
I also found them pretty entertaining — I wanted to know what happened — but I did think they could have done with a really firm editorial hand.
AB76 wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "I listened today to Henning Mankell on the World Book Club, (sorry, I'll try not to turn into a bore going on about this!), talking about his first Wallander novel ..."Have you seen any of Sjovahl and Wahloo's Martin Beck novels? These police procedurals, set in Sweden, appeared long before the Scandi crime boom. I can recommend The Laughing Policeman as an introduction to the series.
Robert wrote: "Have you seen any of Sjovahl and Wahloo's Martin Beck novels?"I read one of these a while ago, but wasn't impressed. Maybe it was a poor translation? I don't remember exactly why, but think it had a dated feel to it. Don't remember which book it was either.
On the other hand, I very much enjoyed the TV series based on the character:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0907683/...
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I read them a long time ago and liked them at the time. I borrowed them from the library, so probably read them in French. It didn't have books in English at that time and anyway wouldn't have a whole series in English.
The Guardian's mods are becoming ever weirder... this morning in response to someone who asked if there was no end to Trump's merchandising, I posted the Trump Gaza video which I expect you've all seen, only to have it deleted.I only knew about it because it had been reported in the GUARDIAN ITSELF - here!:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...
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I hope some daffodils are out. I saw a few here yesterday.
Gpfr wrote: "Happy St David's Day, scarlet! 🐉I hope some daffodils are out. I saw a few here yesterday."
Dydd Gŵyl Dewi Hapus
Another series that you may like Ghttps://www.fantasticfiction.com/m/gr...
I have just finished the first one. Siv was fairly recently widowed and goes back to Dorset from the Met to restart her career. A Polish immigrant goes along to a private fishing lake to illegally catch a few carp. Wandering into the woods for a call of nature he comes across the body of a young women who has been stabbed. As he looks on in horror, he himself is stabbed and killed. A decent read.
There are only five in the series because the author has died.
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Took my mind off the Ukraine debacle. Makes me sick to think about it.
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Took my mind off the Ukraine debacle. Makes me sick to think ab..."
It is a lovely film, isn't it.
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Thanks, having a look now.
giveusaclue wrote: "There are only five in the series because the author has died..."Stabbed in the woods? That would be perfect! ;-)
scarletnoir wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "There are only five in the series because the author has died..."Stabbed in the woods? That would be perfect! ;-)"
🤣
Thanks - diolch - for the day's greeetings.
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https://foxedquarterly.com/christophe...
Robert wrote: "AB76 wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "I listened today to Henning Mankell on the World Book Club, (sorry, I'll try not to turn into a bore going on about this!), talking about his first Wal..."i did read a Wohloo novel but not any by the duo
The Trump show just keeps getting worse, humiliating Zelensky in a staged Mafia rub down was disgusting to see and Zelensky at least didnt go quietly into the nightBut yet again we have the USA as an unreliable actor and not a peep from the US opposition or even a sign of an organised fightback against Trump
Everyday now is a new low...
AB76 wrote: "The Trump show just keeps getting worse, humiliating Zelensky in a staged Mafia rub down was disgusting to see and Zelensky at least didnt go quietly into the nightBut yet again we have the USA a..."
Trying to keep off politics, but it is a shame that the invitation to Trump to go to Balmoral was issued before the weekend, on the F. Os. orders no doubt. But it would be good if he was ushered into see KCIII in private with absolutely NO photo opps.
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Sounds interesting... I don't know the author, but would have immediately thought of Bakunin! Is there an obvious change in style from book to book, even if not identifiable as a pastiche of the authors you mention?