February 2025 Standalone BOTM - Babel by R.F. Kuang

[Jamie]

From award-winning author R. F. Kuang comes Babel, a historical fantasy epic that grapples with student revolutions, colonial resistance, and the use of language and translation as the dominating tool of the British Empire

Traduttore, traditore: An act of translation is always an act of betrayal.

1828. Robin Swift, orphaned by cholera in Canton, is brought to London by the mysterious Professor Lovell. There, he trains for years in Latin, Ancient Greek, and Chinese, all in preparation for the day he’ll enroll in Oxford University’s prestigious Royal Institute of Translation—also known as Babel. The tower and its students are the world's center for translation and, more importantly, magic. Silver-working—the art of manifesting the meaning lost in translation using enchanted silver bars—has made the British unparalleled in power, as the arcane craft serves the Empire's quest for colonization.

For Robin, Oxford is a utopia dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge. But knowledge obeys power, and as a Chinese boy raised in Britain, Robin realizes serving Babel means betraying his motherland. As his studies progress, Robin finds himself caught between Babel and the shadowy Hermes Society, an organization dedicated to stopping imperial expansion. When Britain pursues an unjust war with China over silver and opium, Robin must decide . . .

Can powerful institutions be changed from within, or does revolution always require violence?

**This BOTM thread will be open until March 5th @ Midnight (in your time zone)**

[Grace]

My copy has been mocking me from the shelf for a while now

[Jessie (Saffity)]

This one is also one of the books for the special GR bookmark challenges for this quarter, so I'm hoping to get it done :)

[Brittni]

Apparently I've decided to go for it and start this today!

[Brittni]

Chapter 20

Unfortunately, I've been away from my computer for most of my reading time so I haven't been able to post updates. However, that said, this book is kind of hard for me to make updates on. It's been incredibly slow for me and hard to get into. It feels VERY long. I decided to listen to this one and it's about 25 hours, it feels like it may have been faster to read.

(view spoiler)[I'll admit I didn't know much about the Tower of Babel prior to starting this book but it has encouraged me to read more about it outside of this book.

It's been an interesting read, in a good way, but I've found it slow. The process of taking children from other countries and encouraging them to assimilate into British society while also retaining their mother tongue, needing them to dream and think in their first language was such an interesting process.

Robin falls into the Hermes society but also creates a found family with his peers at Oxford. He was clearly struggling to understand what was wrong or right and figuring out how he fit into everything.

The silver bars and their magic are very interesting. I'm going to continue but unfortunately really looking forward to finishing this one.

I'm wondering if I'm just not in the right mood for this style of book right now and I don't want that to affect how much I enjoy it but I fear it is. (hide spoiler)]

[Brittni]

Chapter 27

(view spoiler)[Ok. Things are picking up and everything is getting a little wild. Some deaths have definitely made me a little sad. I at least want to finish the book at this point versus hating reading it as I thought could be a possibility.

I really think this is a wrong mood, wrong book situation but I'm so far in that I want to continue. (hide spoiler)]

[Shannon The Co-Captain]

I just started it today but only read like 2 pages 😂 So, I don’t have anything to contribute yet. I’m finishing up another book first and then I’ll circle back to this one.

[Brittni]

Finished
(view spoiler)[This was a weird one for me. It took me sooooo long to get through. I found it incredibly slow but it did pick up. However, because it took me so long to get through that by the end, I just wanted it to be over.

That said, it was thought provoking and well written. It spurred several interesting conversations with friends and I'm ultimately glad I read it. (hide spoiler)]

[Shannon The Co-Captain]

End of chapter 1 (view spoiler)[I don't know why Robin didn't translate those orders. I doubt that worker could just get on another ship when his paperwork was specifically for that one. He was probably counting on that job. Robin isn't starting out on a good foot with me. (hide spoiler)]

[Shannon The Co-Captain]

End of chapter 2 (view spoiler)[I can't believe how Professor Lovell beat him. So far I'm not liking it at all and I loathe long chapters. I'm listening to the audio now and the chapters are like an hour long. Ugh. (hide spoiler)]

[Shannon The Co-Captain]

End of chapter 4 (view spoiler)[ The doppelgänger said Lovell might be his father? What? I did wonder when it talked about cutting his curls off if maybe he was biracial but I never considered professor Lovell as being his dad. He’s so cold plus that beating. Of course plenty of parents beat their kids but still. (hide spoiler)]

[Shannon The Co-Captain]

End of chapter 6 (view spoiler)[ I guess Lovell is his dad and this Griffin guy is his brother. (hide spoiler)]

[Shannon The Co-Captain]

30% (view spoiler)[ So if the bar Lovell used was an anecdote then I guess he poisoned his mother. The governess died too so who poisoned them? (hide spoiler)]

[Shannon The Co-Captain]

End of chapter 13 (view spoiler)[ This book is so boring. I can’t believe he hasn’t even mentioned that his mother was poisoned. He can’t have not figured it out. No way you’re smart enough to learn all these languages and translate texts and not get that. (hide spoiler)]

[Brittni]

Oh my goodness! I’m glad I’m not the only one who found this incredibly slow and kind of boring. It got better near the end I found but wow was it rough. I was happy when I finally finished.

[Shannon The Co-Captain]

I think I was expecting something along the lines of The Ninth House. That series is so damn good. This….is not. 😂

[Shannon The Co-Captain]

End of chapter 15 (view spoiler)[ He just helped Remy escape and Lovell found him out. I feel like it *might* be picking up just a bit. (hide spoiler)]

[Shannon The Co-Captain]

End of book 3 & chapter 18 (view spoiler)[ Well I’m glad he killed his father. That’s about the only good thing that’s happened so far. I wonder how they explain it when they get back. (hide spoiler)]

[Shannon The Co-Captain]

Finished! I hated it. Glad it’s over. 😂

[Brittni]

Shannon The Show Stopper wrote: "Finished! I hated it. Glad it’s over. 😂"

Hahaha. I get it! I was very grateful it was over.

[Saige]

Starting this one tonight! I've heard good things from my friends, but reading through some of your comments I'm a little nervous, lol

[Shannon The Co-Captain]

You may like it, a lot of people seem to but I had a lot of issues with the book, aside from being bored for some of it. I linked a review at the bottom of my review that really addresses a lot of my issues with the book. I would take my review with a grain of salt because I was feeling rather salty when I wrote it. I hated Yellowface too but didn’t realize it was the same author until I was halfway through. I probably would have read it anyway even if I had known. I don’t think she knows how to write a likable character and she is definitely not someone I would want to grab a coffee with. I won’t be reading any more of her books. I was expecting something along the lines of Ninth House with a historical backdrop and it’s nothing like that. Anyway, good luck! 😂

[Saige]

End of Part 1: (view spoiler)[I'm really liking this so far! I was a bit worried just reading the back of this book that it would romanticize Oxford the way that a lot of British fantasy does, but the author is doing a great job of avoiding that by showing the racism and sexism that were so rampant at the time. And the mysterious doppleganger is definitely interesting - I'm guessing he's another of the Professor's illegitimate children that he forced to learn at Babel. I wonder how many of them there are? (hide spoiler)]

[Jessie (Saffity)]

Starting this today, will come back and put an update this afternoon :)

[Saige]

End of Part 2: (view spoiler)[This section does a great job of building tension as Robin gets dragged more in both directions - Hermes and Babel. I think the inter-group psychology is really interesting, though I wish we got to know both of the girls a little better. I know that the group is really tight-knit, but a lot of that closeness was more summarized than demonstrated. A few more scenes with dialogue between Robin and each of the girls would make the new tension/falling out seem more intense (hide spoiler)]

[Jessie (Saffity)]

I'll admit, I'm worried about how this book will go seeing what others have said, but I'm giving it a chance and hoping it's a good one for me.

Chapter 1

(view spoiler)[I appreciate they showed the racism of the time, that this didn't end up being a whimsical alternate history where everyone got along. (hide spoiler)]

[Saige]

End of Part 3: (view spoiler)[I love love love that this took a turn to discuss the opium wars. It's such an important part of the history of the British empire but it's barely taught in American schools so I feel like it gets overlooked in American media a lot. Robin finally coming into his sense of loss and disgust towards England was amazingly done - the build-up for him killing his father felt intense and dramatic without slipping into melodrama. It's been a while since I read a book that wrote the psychological consequences of settler colonialism this well (hide spoiler)]

[Jessie (Saffity)]

Chapter 2 (These chapters are really long!)

(view spoiler)[Don't really like the Professor at all, also the comment about how all the adults around him ignored the bruises on an 11 year old really showed what this poor kid is growing up in. (hide spoiler)]

[Jessica]

I started this last night when I couldn't sleep figuring if I found it super boring maybe that would help me sleep lol. I'm really enjoying it so far.

[Jessie (Saffity)]

Start of book 2

(view spoiler)[The doppelganger was intriguing, I'm pretty sure they're brothers of some sort as this magic doesn't appear to allow for creating look-a-likes. I still appreciate the reality of the world, like with the first chapters, that racism and such is properly represented. The 1800s are often looked back on with some form of wistful wishing, and this book seems to want to truly show the muck of reality. (hide spoiler)]

[Saige]

End of Part 4: (view spoiler)[Am I surprised about Letty? No. Kuang has been hinting about that since the earliest chapters. But even knowing that the betrayal was coming, it was so so devastating to read. (hide spoiler)]

[Jessie (Saffity)]

End of book 2

(view spoiler)[ The biggest thing I can say about this book so far is that it's ok... The heist, with the professor not suspecting Robin, and all of the intrigue of Hermes and such is interesting, but it's not 'have to read it now' interesting. I'm enjoying some of the language stuff with the words here and there, but that's because I really like learning other languages. (hide spoiler)]

[Jessie (Saffity)]

50%

(view spoiler)[ The interlude with Remi's history was interesting, to find out the background of other characters in more depth was interesting. Lovell's discussion after Robin was caught felt very much like a twisted history from those in power, but we will see who ends up being right soon enough. I have a feeling Griffin's version of events are very different.

I do still appreciate how classism and racism are continuing to be a major topic in this story, as both were a huge deal in the 1800s before reforms were put in. That they're not glossed over or romanticized is refreshing. (hide spoiler)]

[Jessie (Saffity)]

60% ish

(view spoiler)[While he seemed shocked that Robin actually did it, I almost wonder if Lovell gave him that specific silver in a 'suicide by son' kind of thing. It felt weird to me that he let Robin keep it. I can't say I'm upset he's gone, quite frankly he got what he deserved. (hide spoiler)]

[Haley]

Jessie (Saffity) wrote: "End of book 2

[spoilers removed]"

I agree
(view spoiler)[ It's holding enough interest for me to keep reading, but can't say I'm excited to get back into it. I feel like it draggggsss so much at certain points then BAM something interesting only for it to slow again. (hide spoiler)]
I own the physical book but I don't think I'd make it through without the audiobook version, especially hearing it sound out the different languages and words.

[Jessie (Saffity)]

Finished

(view spoiler)[The takeover of Babel and the emotions and decisions that are shown with the reality of opposing a government were well written. The fact that they lost people, and then eventually chose to become martyrs was also a reality of the situation. This book felt almost like it was trying to be Les Miserables, but with magic, and unfortunately, it drags like Les Mis does but even worse. I would not have finished this book if I didn't have the audio version, I would have put it down during a boring part and just never picked it up again. I gave it 3 stars, it was ok, just ok. (hide spoiler)]

[Haley]

Jessie (Saffity) wrote: "60% ish

[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[ I didn't even consider if it was in a way intentional that Robin continued to hold onto the silver. I did start to grow on Lovell once he gave empathy about not understanding Robin... but that was over quite quickly as he returned to his old ways (hide spoiler)]

[Haley]

Jessie (Saffity) wrote: "Finished

[spoilers removed]"

for me I think putting it *dragged* it saying it nicely (view spoiler)[ don't get me wrong , overall some good parts in the book but felt there was SO much unnecessary detail and scenes that didn't need to be there... (hide spoiler)] happy I choose the audiobook version for this one

[Haley]

Shannon The Show Stopper wrote: "You may like it, a lot of people seem to but I had a lot of issues with the book, aside from being bored for some of it. I linked a review at the bottom of my review that really addresses a lot of ..."

I can't say this book makes me excited to get into her other ones, but also can be a bit biased because I'm not the biggest of fans with academic fantasy as I didn't like Ninth House as well

[Jessica]

Part One
(view spoiler)[ I'm glad I went into this knowing it was way more historical fiction than fantasy. Silverworking is such a minor part of what is a fascinating exploration of the British Empire. A little more subtly would have been nice, but my nerdy academic side is loving this. Also the footnotes are read by the girl from the Dark Olympus series and that has taken some getting used to. (hide spoiler)]

[Jessica]

Saige wrote: "End of Part 2: [spoilers removed]"

Totally agree Saige, that's what I came here to say. I enjoyed this section but there's too much telling. I know we are covering a long period but the relationships are so important and I wanted to actually see that development instead of just being told that it happened.

[Jessica]

Haley wrote: "
I own the physical book but I don't think I'd make it through without the audiobook version, especially hea..."
The audio is so helpful. I only have an audio copy and I don't think I'd be enjoying it without that.

Part Three
(view spoiler)[ I accidentally spoiled myself that he killed his father by clicking on a spoiler, but I was still surprised how it went down. The betrayal Victoire and Remy felt was so real and I liked how it forced Robin to examine his beliefs. (hide spoiler)]

Part Four
(view spoiler)[ Fucking Letty, but I saw that coming. She was the most uncertain about this, and they definitely dragged her along into the murder coverup. This part is where it started to lose me, after the murder it all felt quite melodramatic. (hide spoiler)]

End
(view spoiler)[ Yeah I don't even know what to say at the end. All the deaths hurt and I kept hoping Remy would be alive after all even though he clearly wasn't. I liked the professors that took a stand but the actual ending was heartbreaking. I'm glad Victoire got out but damn Robin. Yeah, that really left me stunned and I didn't know how to feel. (hide spoiler)]

[Shannon The Co-Captain]

I loved Ninth House but that series actually has likable characters. This book didn’t have a single character I liked. Being oppressed shouldn’t be a character trait but rather something that is happening to a character. The etymology portion is the only thing I liked. Everything else was terribly done in my opinion. I think it’s an important story but I feel like if it had been done as historical fiction and in hands capable of writing characters with depth, it could have been a great book. I kept waiting for Robin to mention that his mother was possibly poisoned based on the definition of the silver bar Professor Lovell used to heal her. The definition was an antidote for poison. When that is taught in class that’s literally the only mention of it. Robin never says internally “hey, this wanker poisoned my mother and took me from my home.” To me, I’m thinking Robin could have gotten a Count of Monte Cristo type drive for revenge. I don’t know, the characters were vapid and I honestly wanted everyone to just die already in the end. 😂

[Shannon The Co-Captain]

I’m on my phone and can’t see the spoiler comments. I was responding to Haley’s comment.

[Haley]

Shannon The Show Stopper wrote: "I loved Ninth House but that series actually has likable characters. This book didn’t have a single character I liked. Being oppressed shouldn’t be a character trait but rather something that is ha..."

likeable characters!! I might give Ninth house another chance because I listened to the audiobook and found I didn't grasp the worldbuilding and fantasy world as much as I would have liked.

the biggest game changer in a book because lets be honest Robin didn't (view spoiler)[ change at all!!... he was so caught up in the past and how he's different from everyone else around him (hide spoiler)] you said it perfectly, being oppressed was practically his only personality trait.

there was no pinpoint of revelation which you would think with the slow build. I can't say I felt any part; I was shocked or overwhelmed with emotion.