Hester - Week 1

[Lori, Moderator]

Welcome to our read of Hester! In this section, we get the background of the Vernon family and meet many characters, nearly all of them Vernons. From the backstory, we jump to the return of "Mrs. John" and Hester to England, when Hester is 14 and Catherine Vernon is 65. Then we jump five years again, and Hester is 19 (the author continues to refer to Catherine as 65 years old; I mentally corrected it each time to 70, or maybe it would have been better to mentally correct the first assertion of 65 to 60).

Do you have a favorite character so far? If so, what do you like about them?

What are the dynamics of the extended Vernon family like, and of the citizens of the Vernonry? How do you expect these to change, if they change at all?

How are Hester and Catherine alike?

[Hedi]

Lori wrote: "...From the backstory, we jump to the return of "Mrs. John" and Hester to England, when Hester is 14 and Catherine Vernon is 65...."

I think the story went briefly to the time when Catherine was 65 and then it was mentioned that the story went back 5 years. Therefore I think that Catherine was about 60 when Hester arrived.
But I am a little confused with the ages as well. I wonder how old Mrs John Vernon is. When she came back it was mentioned that she had not been in Redborough for 30 years. At the same time Catherine was considered as possible wife for John Vernon. When the whole bank crisis happened she was already 30 years old, long after the typical marrying age in the 19th century. So you would think that the marrying business was at least 5 years before that and that might mean that Mrs John Vernon was maybe 20 when she married and could be about 55 years old when coming back to Redborough, but that means that she gave birth to Hester when she was around 41 - seem quite late... and I think there was no mention of any other children.

The first encounter of Hester and Catherine is very amusing. And the 2 are in general so alike, very stubborn and set in their ways and opinions.

But I really like this first section. It is very observant with all the small details of people living closely together. Hester is being thrown into this, and it is sad to see that there are not really any potential friends for her - it was also quite a slight of Ellen to ask her over and then not to really invite her. I can imagine how that must have hurt her, and which can create an even more "obstinate" behaviour.

As I am a little pressed with time this month, I will continue today (a public holiday in Sweden) to make the rest of the first volume until next week.

[Lori, Moderator]

Yes, that makes sense regarding Catherine's age. I think maybe John Vernon had been putting Catherine off for a while before he chose "Mrs. John" (I think it's mentioned somewhere that her name is Lucy, but I don't remember for sure), who was probably very young. I read ahead a bit and there was some mention of possible miscarriages or children who died young, so I think you're right that Hester was born when Mrs. John was older, close to 40, and was her only surviving child.

[Robin P, Moderator]

I thought the psychology of the characters was quite good. We often resent those who help us from the attitude of superiority. And I think we can all identify with the embarrassment of a 14-year-old, who almost wishes she could die on the spot.

Yes, it's ironic that Catherine and Hester are so alike. Both are independent, smart and persistent.

[Daryl]

I do think Hester and Catherine shares similar traits as well which is why they clashed immediately upon meeting, “the old woman and the young woman, made of the same metal, with the same defects and virtues, looked each other in the eyes, and almost understood each other” pg 119.

Feels like something is brewing underneath which is exciting. Hester is more mature than what her mother thinks, she seemed and still to be taking a lot of responsibility and wishes her mother would take her more seriously. I like her character so far.

But I do not trust Catherine, I think she is very smart and has ulterior motives. Not sure on how common this system was during that time but i find the Vernonry “community” both quite funny and strange, it seems like Catherine is collecting the Vernons to form her world where she is respected and is above all since she has given them charity? Not sure if I’m misunderstanding her character, anyone else feels the same?

And I somehow believe Catherine is involved in John Vernon’s sudden escape. Again,I’m probably over-analysing haha.

[Lori, Moderator]

Yes, Hester especially is very relatable to me. Margaret Oliphant did a great job developing the characters.

[Neil]

Prelims first - I must own that I was a disappointed when my choice of novel for this reading did not win the vote, but having said that I’m so glad because I’m thoroughly enjoying what I’ve read so far. The poetic quotations in the book has kept me busy referencing them from my volumes of poetry that share my bookcase with novels and essays. Thanks to the crowd for voting for Hester!

I rather like Edward’s character he seems a down to earth unassuming sort of chap.

When it comes to Catherine, I agree there is something sinister about her and I’m wondering if she was implicated in the run on the bank, or conspired with John’s disappearance. Hester‘s mother has stated that John preferred her over Catherine, is sour grapes at play here?

Hester seems a stark contrast from her mother, I’m wondering if we really know who her father is!

[Trev]

I seem to be at variance with everyone else’s thoughts on the characters so far. At the moment my admiration is for Catherine, who, almost single handedly, has rescued a dynasty from the ruin of their name, livelihood and reputation.

The rather long prequel to the present time in the novel was necessary because it explained why Catherine had become a woman of substance and how much of the rest of the family were really undeserving of their wealth and status. If the chief clerk had not visited her on the night before the run on the bank, she would still have had part of her fortune, but the rest of her family would have been ruined. She took a risk in placing all her money at the bank’s disposal, putting her family before herself. How much her position of power has changed her character over the years we shall see, but there is no doubt that her all family members ought to be grateful for what she has done for them.

I have read a few Margaret Oliphant novels before, most notably ‘The Chronicles of Carlingford,’ a series of seven novels describing the interaction of a country town community. She has a skill similar to Trollope in creating intrigues and situations within close knit communities and this novel seems to be developing in the same way.

As for Hester and her mother, they are living on the lies of their father. No wonder Catherine kept Mr. John at arms length. Not only was Hester’s father inept and over frivolous (regarding money) as a banker but he was also a coward in the way he forsook everyone who depended upon him. He obviously didn’t really care about his wife and child. Will Hester ever come to realise this or will her father remain as the injured and mistreated ‘God’ that she thought he was?

Hester seems to have an understandably changeable character, ……a typical precocious yet self conscious teenager one minute and the next deeply thoughtful and full of the cares of the world. Being forced into being a child carer for her hopelessly self-centred mother has not helped her situation at all. And then the thrust into the Vernon family hive has certainly got her buzzing with both excitement and trepidation and the same can be said for many other members of the Vernon family.

I am intrigued about Edward, Harry and Ellen. Harry and Ellen are loud and brash but a least it seems that they are what they seem. Yet there has already been hints that Edward may not be what he seems to be.

’ Edward, though he had won the heart of his powerful relation (Catherine)by his domestic character and evident preference for her society, had not been able to divest himself of a certain grudge against the author of his good fortune. The feeling which Hester expressed so innocently was in his mind in a more serious form.’ (chapter 5)
………
’He had not told the story of his own encounter with the new subject of amusement (Hester), which was strange; but he was a young man who kept his own counsel, having his own fortune to make, as had been impressed upon him from his birth.’(chapter 7)

[Robin P, Moderator]

I didn't see Catherine as sinister. I think she's a good example of all the leadership and creativity lost over centuries because women couldn't usually work in finance, industry, politics, the arts, etc. She has earned the right to run the family. If a man, such as the grandfather, acted the way Catherine does, nobody would find it disturbing.

[Lori, Moderator]

I like Catherine too. While it's human nature to take one's humiliation of being dependent and express those feelings as contempt of one's benefactor, and that's a relatable emotion and response, of course it's also unfair to Catherine. I'm glad she's able to not take it too personal and laugh at it instead, though of course she has her own faults and takes that too far too, as with Hester.

[Hedi]

I also like Catherine despite her maybe not even all uncovered flaws.
She saved the bank and I cannot believe that she had anything to do with John Vernon’s disappearance. He was the man and therefore chosen to lead the bank, which he put into ruins. It was a big thing for Catherine to step in with her own money ( and we were talking of several 10 thousands of pounds - not just 20 😉, which is in today’s money a real fortune) as she did and as often even nowadays she had to prove herself as a woman even more than what would have been expected of a man in order to be able to keep her position as leader of the bank. Many might have just withdrawn their money because the bank was led by a woman.
So that must mean a lot. I still hope that she really “only” wanted to give some of her fortune back to her relations without any sinister thoughts, even though the whole setup is quite amusing. The description of the people in the Vernonry reminded me of Trollope and of Cranford.

BTW, the relationship between Hester and her mother reminded me a little of Gwendolyn’s relationship with her mother in Daniel Deronda. They both sleep close to their mothers and care for the mothers rather than vice versa.

[Jaylia3]

I was as naive as Hester because I expected Ellen to follow through and spend time with Hester, even take her under her wing, if only to rankle Catherine. I'm not sure what Ellen's motivation was to be over the top enthusiastic about getting together with Hester without following through.

I've really enjoyed the story, and the development of the characters so far. At every stage I was wishing to have a little more time. I especially would have liked more of Catherine when she was newly running the bank, and I would have liked to see the John family in exile. Even if the extras bogged the book somewhat, which they probably would have since Margaret Oliphant is a better writer than I am.

Thanks to Trev's links I've so far been double consuming the chapters by listening to the Librivox audio while commuting and reading the Project Gutenberg ebooks too.

[Nancy]

I was also confused by the possible age of Mrs. John, so I finally decided to ignore that and go on with this (so far) great story. I'm one of those who admires Catherine. She is a strong and independent woman, and although she is not perfect, she seems to be sincerely trying to do her best for the family. The family, of course, is largely ungrateful, gossipy, and pretentious. Mrs. Oliphant has done an excellent job of portraying Hester. Her anger toward Catherine may be misplaced, but at her young age it is typical to react to our feelings without really realizing their source. At 14 and at 19, she is still in that time of life in which we tend to think our knowledge superior to the adults around us. Hester may be especially prone to this since she has had a tumultuous life and has to take care of her mother, the very useless Mrs. John.

[Frances, Moderator]

I'm late finishing these chapters but am also really enjoying this so far.

I suspect Catherine built the Vernonry as a way to better manage her dependents-it appears she is supporting a large number of impecunious relatives so having them all under one roof and supplying all their wants for shelter and food does mean that it would be hard for anyone to plead poverty and touch her up for more money. It is quite amusing that all these dependents have still divided themselves into an upper and lower class within the Vernonry, and woe betide anyone-in this case Catherine and Hester-who values the lowers above the uppers.

I've also enjoyed the first glimpse of the Morgans-they put me in mind of an older version of the Croft's from Persuasion-and am glad that the Captain has a new listener to his tales and that Hester has found friends in them. It is almost as if Hester is recreating the family she likely never had-younger siblings in the Reginald Vernon children and grandparents in the Morgans.

Trev-how can you not trust a Botanist? :)

[Brian E]

Lori wrote: "Margaret Oliphant did a great job developing the characters."

I agree and that has helped make this a quite pleasant and interesting reading experience so far.

Lori wrote: "Do you have a favorite character so far? If so, what do you like about them?.."

There are many good characters. On reflection, though, I have a definite favorite - Edward Vernon. I like two things about him:
1) His Personality - he seems well-tempered, intelligent and very fair. He seems to like to make everybody's lives better. He finds delight in the quirky and sometimes off-putting-to-others characteristics common to both Catherine and Hester and, thus, handles both well
2) His Utility - by being friendly with both Catherine and Hester, Edward is able to give the reader insight into both their more positive attributes and their true characters. He provides a viewpoint for the reader to utilize.
- He's the character I most identify with so far, even if that character really should be Captain (Grandpa) Morgan.

[Neil]

Frances - I enjoyed reading your recent synopsis. This has enhanced my understanding of the book so far. I have now moved onto week two reading wise, therefore I say no more at the moment for fear of spoilers!

[Ginny]

I am late to this conversation because I just received my book via my library system. I am very pleasantly surprised at discovering how different and entertaining this book is. The Vernonry, a colony of Vernons is such a whimsical idea, I'm amazed at how believable it all is.

The structure that Catherine transforms into a colony of her relatives was originally called the Heronry, and perhaps that's what gave her the idea. Such a great metaphor. Herons nest in colonies called Heronries, and they are in many places around the world.

A heronry is an entertaining site, for the herons are constantly active. Birds leave to feed or gather nesting materials and soon return. A female on the nest becomes attentive as her mate glides in and lands softly. They may mate, or go through an elaborate welcome ceremony that involves mutual displays of affection such as standing with chests appressed, necks embracing one another, erecting their head and chest plumes and clappering their bill tips.

From https://www.colorado.edu/asmagazine/2...

[Lori, Moderator]

Ginny wrote: "I am late to this conversation because I just received my book via my library system. I am very pleasantly surprised at discovering how different and entertaining this book is. The Vernonry, a colo..."

It does seem that Catherine has provided herself with a high-level birdwatching opportunity!