The Echo Maker

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

*Featured Buddy Read*
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This thread is to discuss The Echo Maker by Richard Powers.

Pages: 451 pages

Length: 1 months (December)

Participants: Valerie, Lorraine, SarahKat

Everyone reads at their own pace during a Buddy Read. Because participants can be at different parts of the book at different times, it is extremely important to mark spoilers so that the book is not ruined for someone who is not as far along as others!!!

Mark spoilers by placing {spoiler} before the text and {/spoiler} after the text but use the < and > instead of the { and }.

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

I forgot to add my own name to this one when I posted it, but I am joining you!

I'll probably get it from the library today and read a little at a time over the next few weeks.

[Valerie]

Good to have you with us, SarahKat!
Will probably start this one at the beginning of December.

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

I'm through Part 2.
(view spoiler)[The psychology stuff in this is really interesting. Capgras is one I've always had a hard time wrapping my head around. That and the body dysphoria that the book just talked about too, where you don't think your body parts are yours.
I appreciate all of the psychologist's ruminations on other cases and things, all of which are interesting. He is possibly his own "case" as well... dementia?
I feel horrible for both Mark and Karin, especially when they try that phone call and Mark believes her to be *her* but not when she shows up in person. I do wonder about that note. (hide spoiler)]

[Lorraine]

Starting this one today or tomorrow. Looking forward to it. I usually like this author books.

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

Lorraine wrote: "Starting this one today or tomorrow. Looking forward to it. I usually like this author books."

This is my first of his. I have a few on my list though

[Lorraine]

This will be my fourth. And I have another one of his on my TBR. Curious to see what you'll think of it.

[Valerie]

Starting tomorrow. This will be my third book by this author. Hoping it’s as good as the other two.

[Valerie]

Part 1. Took a bit of getting into (although I later realised the reason for the rather heavy, fragmented prose) but once it picked up pace and fluidity I was fully engaged by the characters and fascinated by the subject matter. (view spoiler)[ I understand the frustration of Karin because when my mother developed dementia she refused to accept that I was her daughter, insisting that I was my aunt - logical to her because she believed herself too young and I do resemble her sister. I’m interested in the rekindled relationship with Daniel and wonder where that will go, and of course intrigued by the suggestion that it was not a pure accident- were his friends involved I wonder? Certainly plenty to keep the reader interested! (hide spoiler)]

[Lorraine]

Could not start today. Starting tomorrow

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

Part 3: (view spoiler)[Now Mark thinks people are following him around disguised as other people and thinks the entire town has been replaced. How scary this must be for him and how exhausting for those he's close to, especially Karin.
I'm still wondering about that note. Will it end up being important? Karin seems to not want Mark to look into his accident. It does sort of seem like she's hiding something, or is she just jaded with the entire situation?
I don't really like her relationship with Daniel. They don't make me feel anything romantic between them at all. Just a relationship of convenience and nostalgia. And again, is she paranoid about him cheating because there's a reason to be (did he cheat in the past?), or is she paranoid because she's paranoid? My first husband was always positive I was cheating on him or thinking about it any time we weren't together.
I just think there might be more going on with Karin than we are being told. Or am I just feeding off of Mark's doubts?? The more I think about this the more I really appreciate this story. (hide spoiler)]

Valerie, (view spoiler)[so sorry you had to go through that with your mom. It's so hard to see a loved one lose a part of themselves, but especially a parent who knew you before you even knew you. (hide spoiler)]

[Valerie]

SarahKat wrote: "I'm through Part 2.
The psychology stuff in this is really interesting. Capgras is one I've always had a hard time wrapping my head around. That and the body dysphoria that the book just talked ab..."
Also finished part 2. It’s certainly fascinating stuff and what I like about this author is that he balances the science and the story so well. (view spoiler)[ also wondering about the note but I suspect that won’t be revealed until later. And yes, the hints that the doctor is himself ill but maybe in a bit of denial? And Barbara - she is the one who actually does feel like an actor - too good to be true, she’s actually a little creepy! Plenty of mystery. (hide spoiler)]

[Valerie]

SarahKat wrote: "Part 3: Now Mark thinks people are following him around disguised as other people and thinks the entire town has been replaced. How scary this must be for him and how exhausting for those he's clos..."

Part 3. I got a bit bogged down in Weber’s meanderings - both mental and physical, but the Mark storyline continues to fascinate. (view spoiler)[ still suspicious about Barbara - call me cynical but she has to have a hidden agenda. And Daniel - is he what he seems or am I just getting caught in Mark’s paranoia? Yes I agree that the relationship with Karin seems off in some way or is she just unreasonably jealous or does she have reason? And that leaves the note which I do think will prove important. Oh and was there someone else in the truck which links to it? Lot to be resolved and revealed (hide spoiler)]

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

Valerie wrote: "SarahKat wrote: "Part 3: Now Mark thinks people are following him around disguised as other people and thinks the entire town has been replaced. How scary this must be for him and how exhausting fo..."

Same! I'm much more invested in Mark than Weber.

[Lorraine]

I've finished Parts 1 and 2 of the book. Part 1 was difficult to get into, and unlike Bewilderment, I’m struggling to connect with the characters. (view spoiler)[ I understand that the author’s use of complex scientific language creates a barrier, but I wonder if the way he narrates the interactions between characters is deliberately meant to feel distant or awkward.

It reminds me of something a Quebecois comedian once shared about his brother, who suffered a terrible accident and lives with lasting effects. One of these effects is an inability to filter his thoughts—he says exactly what’s on his mind without considering how it might hurt others. The comedian explained how this made it nearly impossible for his brother to form new relationships. Imagine interacting with someone who openly comments on your body, face, or clothes without thinking about how it might affect you. It’s an intriguing lens to think about how the author might be shaping these characters and their dynamics. (hide spoiler)]

[Lorraine]

Part 2. This is definitely a book I need to buy for my friend, a neuropsychologist, so she can explain Capgras syndrome and dysphoria to me. (view spoiler)[What it makes me think about, though, is the research done on the brains of psychopaths. I know I’m drawing unusual connections here—haha—but one fascinating discovery is how psychopaths learn to mimic the facial expressions and behaviors of those around them to better relate and manipulate their environment.

I wonder if this idea ties into the title of the book, The Echo Maker. Not that Mark is a psychopath, of course, but perhaps he’s "echoing" the reactions of those around him in some way.

As for his sister, I’m still unsure about her. She feels phony to me—more concerned with how others perceive her than with what her brother is actually going through. At the same time, I can’t help but empathize. If my own brother refused to recognize me, I’d probably question whether I’d done something wrong too.

It’s so hard to accept that the brain has its own enigmatic ways of functioning. It makes me think Freud didn’t even scratch the surface of its mysteries! (hide spoiler)]

[Valerie]

That’s interesting, Lorraine. When I was teaching I saw how girls who are on the lower end of the autism/ADHD spectrum are quite successful in mimicking the behaviour of their peers and able to form part of social groups - it’s one of the reasons why they are so notoriously under diagnosed in comparison to boys. The theory is that girls value belonging to a group more and so make an effort to copy in order to be accepted.

[Lorraine]

Finished Part 3, and I'm still unsure where the author is taking this story. (view spoiler)[Is it an exploration of neurological issues, a study of low self-esteem, or a commentary on how anyone can succumb to delusions? One recurring theme is that everyone seems to be suffering.

Mark believes someone is following him and wants to harm him. Karen, despite her crippling low self-esteem, suspects her boyfriend of cheating yet avoids seeking therapy, which seems baffling. Meanwhile, Weber is dealing with memory loss—possibly early dementia—and avoids discussing it with his wife, even as his anxiety likely exacerbates his symptoms.

What stands out to me is that all these characters clearly need help, yet no one is reaching out to others despite professing to care. It’s a frustrating dynamic that underscores how isolating personal struggles can be when left unaddressed. (hide spoiler)]

[Valerie]

Part 4. This part was rather too long and rambling (I could definitely have done without some of the lengthy neuroscience examples) but once we got to the big reveal, most of the strands pulled together and interlinked. (view spoiler)[ ha I knew Barbara was dodgy - but would never have guessed how deep her duplicity was. Glad to see that Karin made the difficult choice and came good even if in a strange and twisted way - maybe a new start for her? So what will the revelation do for Mark? And what is next for Weber? (hide spoiler)]

[Lorraine]

Valerie wrote: "Part 4. This part was rather too long and rambling (I could definitely have done without some of the lengthy neuroscience examples) but once we got to the big reveal, most of the strands pulled tog..."

You give me hope! 😁

[Valerie]

Finished. Part 5 is very short!
(view spoiler)[ the central story surrounding Mark is well done with plenty of mystery to keep the reader engaged and a solution that is very unexpected and clever. This links in well to both the themes of neuroscience and conservation without detracting from plot or message. The Weber storyline, though, pretty well lost me both in terms of understanding and in terms of caring and clutters up the tale in my opinion. The book could have lost all his meanderings and have been better for it. I’m probably judging this novel a bit harshly because The Overstory and Bewilderment are both so good but I feel that this books lacks cohesion and clarity in comparison. (hide spoiler)]

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

Valerie wrote: "Part 4. This part was rather too long and rambling (I could definitely have done without some of the lengthy neuroscience examples) but once we got to the big reveal, most of the strands pulled tog..."

Haven't checked your spoiler yet but I'm almost done with Part 4 and it is a bit of slog!! I'll finish tomorrow

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

Finished a few days ago and just didn't have a chance to update.

Valerie, I agree with everything you've said. (view spoiler)[I don't think you are judging too harshly. I haven't read those other books and feel the same way. The ending was drawn out too much. I never really cared about Weber. I liked some of the early short cases he mentions but I lost my patience with him pretty quickly.

I did not see Barbara being the one out on the highway that night, though it was weird that everyone seemed to know her before they met her. (hide spoiler)]

[Lorraine]

I finished The Echo Maker three days ago, and I needed some time to process my thoughts before writing a review and picking a quote. (view spoiler)[After reflecting, I’m sticking with a 3-star rating. The ending was a bit surprising, and while I’m disappointed in this book, I still think the author is worth reading.

For me, there was way too much focus on neuroscience, and I’m not convinced we needed to spend so much time on Weber’s character. I’ve read Bewilderment twice, and the neuroscience in that book was handled much more effectively—it felt balanced. I’m not sure why the author leaned so heavily into it here. (hide spoiler)]

That said, I’m still interested in reading Playground, which was on the Booker shortlist and also nominated for the Goodreads Choice Awards. I’ll suggest it for March or May and hope you two can join me!

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

I'm interested in Playground too. And I really should move Bewilderment up in priority. It's been on my list since it came out.

[Valerie]

This was one of his earlier works so maybe it just took time to get the balance right. I recommend Bewilderment- lots of astrophysics as well as neuroscience but doesn’t get in the way. Playground is on my list.