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The Tale of Genji
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message 1: by Diane (last edited Oct 30, 2024 12:49PM) (new)

Diane Zwang | 1916 comments Mod
Questions from Penguin Random House

DISCUSSION QUESTIONS

1. What do the men in the tale value in a woman?

2. How does a man gain access to a woman, and how does a woman safeguard her dignity?

3. How do the characters in the tale define personal worth? What do they admire?

4. What consequences flow from the birth of Genji’s son by his father’s Empress?

5. What are the reasons for Genji’s exile (chapter 13) and its consequences?

6. How do the characters view the native (Japanese) in comparison with the foreign (Chinese)?

7. Is there humor in the tale? How does it work?

8. What are the erotic elements in the tale? What is their value?

9. Spirits speak several times in the tale. How do the characters react to these events? What do you make of them?

10. In chapter 2 a young courtier discourses generally on art, in chapter 17 the issue is painting, and in chapter 25 Genji discusses fiction. How do the views expressed relate to more recent ones, including yours?

11. How do you imagine the men and women in the tale spending their time when the text does not tell you what they are doing?

12. Why does Genji marry Onna San no Miya (the Third Princess)?

13. What role do dreams play in the tale?

14. What do you make of the tale’s last heroine, Ukifune?

15. What do you think happens beyond the tale’s last page?


message 2: by Gail (last edited Oct 14, 2025 03:32PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Gail (gailifer) | 2204 comments 1. What do the men in the tale value in a woman?

At first, one believes that men only value the allure of beauty and grace, which is often reflected in their poetry, their handwriting and their musical skills. As the book progressives, we come to understand that the women are often just pawns in marriages that will secure political power alliances and their value is their father's and mother's class and lineage. However, at least through a few of the relationships, we do see that some of the women had value as true companions.

2. How does a man gain access to a woman, and how does a woman safeguard her dignity?

For a relationship of a "first" level, i.e. the official marriage that ties two power alliances, the men had access only through carefully prescribed introductions (behind screens) and the actual marriage bed must have been a shock. However, the men all seemed to be very well versed in how to get around restrictions and often would spy or hide or talk their way past the lady's attendants. A woman had to safeguard her dignity by fleeing to the inner rooms. Once a man was known to have "spent the night" regardless of what happened during that time, as they could be just quoting poetry to each other behind screens, the women was compromised and had to make difficult decisions about what exactly she would present to the world. Her choices were few: a marriage if possible even if it was a second marriage, become a mistress if marriage was not possible, become a nun, die a slow lingering death from starvation.

3. How do the characters in the tale define personal worth? What do they admire?

The men are admired for their looks, their handwriting, musical skills, or dance skills, not unlike the women, but more importantly they are admired for their presence. Genji is the Shining One because he illuminates the room when he is in it not just with his poetry and music but with his charisma. Of course, one must have the blood of a royal or upper caste person to even begin to be considered admirable. Some of Genji's descendants are admired for their political skills, which reflected the ability to maneuver at the imperil court effectively. Power, and prestige brought financial wherewithal also. The ability to give beautiful gifts, for example, was highly admired. The ability to build a beautiful home (re: Palace) surrounded by exquisite gardens is very admired. Kaoru is admired for his slight withdrawal from the world, his dignity and integrity, although he still had liaisons with various women.

4. What consequences flow from the birth of Genji’s son by his father’s Empress?

This was a secret that had to be maintained at all cost and yet it set up his son to be in a bad place spiritually because he could not legitimately honor his father. It also forced the mother into a life of guilt and shame which caused her to become a nun. Genji also suffered from guilt for this liaison and the memories of this first all consuming love haunted him throughout his life.

5. What are the reasons for Genji’s exile (chapter 13) and its consequences?

Well, really, he just stepped over the line one too many times with the wrong women. It took me awhile to understand that it was his political rivalry with the Empress Dowager Koki-den that triggered the exile. Genji was a "commoner" for some reason that I never understood. His father gave him to a powerful family to cement an alliance. However, how giving someone to another family in name only wipes out one's royal blood, I don't know. At any rate, as a commoner he embodied a threat to The Empress Dowager's family. Genji disrespectfully flaunted a relationship with Koki-den's daughter and Koki-den finally was able to get him removed from the court because of this and other breaks in protocol, especially his affair with the Emperor's consort.

6. How do the characters view the native (Japanese) in comparison with the foreign (Chinese)?

Chinese is seen as the more prestigious and more developed culture, especially in writing, poetry and the tuning of instruments. Culturally speaking, women were not allowed to learn Chinese.

7. Is there humor in the tale? How does it work?

There is a great deal of humor in the book. Much of it is hidden under a slight gloss of mockery for men, their egotistical concerns, their weeping in self-pity, that Murasaki manages to convey while keeping to all the traditional protocols. She is also able to use spiritual conventions to explain things that are not explainable which has a humorous caste to it.

8. What are the erotic elements in the tale? What is their value?

The book is very immersive and was evidently immersive to its first readers who understood the culture that the book reflected. The focus of the book is the romantic court intrigues and other romantic dalliances of the highest ranking people in the court. Although the characters reflect the people at the court during Murasaki's residency, the actual characters are fictional and therefore Murasaki could have them get away with much more than a diary would have been able to. At a time when seeing a women's wrist or ankle would have been highly suggestive of sexual openness in the west, in Japan, the culture tended to have erotic visions on seeing long hair falling across a face or the rustle of silk skirts. None of the erotic elements are overly suggestive to someone reading in 2025. In fact, although some of the female characters get pregnant after a visit by a male character, the 2025 reader would not necessarily have assumed that there had been any sex at all as the actual act is never detailed. In a funny way, the eroticism is heightened by its relationship to the abstract, the plum blossoms, the call of a bird etc. and some of the most erotic imagery is simply a straightforward description of a young women in a simple white slip.


9. Spirits speak several times in the tale. How do the characters react to these events? What do you make of them?

Genji's dead father's visitation was a turning point in Genji's life as he understood that although his sin was trivial in the big picture, he nevertheless had to show remorse and change his lifestyle. Many of the other spirits are evil ones who have settled into their human hosts in order to drive them toward insanity or death. The characters do not question the existence of these spirits. The character's religious beliefs were such that talking spirits were a natural part of life and these spirits explained much of what otherwise would have been unknowable.


11. How do you imagine the men and women in the tale spending their time when the text does not tell you what they are doing?

One of the things that threw me off in the beginning was that Genji and the other male characters had to work, yet we never learned exactly what they did, what they were responsible for, what kind of time or effort this work involved. We hear of their titles and promotions but not what that means. We only hear that Genji was expected to spend the night at the Emperor's Palace because it was his turn. Kaoru, at the very end of the book is referred to as a General, yet we never hear about his leading troops, going to war or even training anyone and everything we have learned about Kaoru up to this point would not have made him a good General. So, I imagined that the men "worked" at whatever they were supposed to be doing and that the women practiced their handwriting, poetry, music, played games and slept a great deal. (Weeping can be exhausting).

12. Why does Genji marry Onna San no Miya (the Third Princess)?

Genji's half brother the ex Emperor is worried about his daughter's future as he himself is wanting to move on with his religious activities and ultimately toward his own death. Although this relationship will have a negative impact on his relationship with Murasaki, Genji ultimately wants to go ahead with it because she is an emperor's princess which gives Genji more status. Also, Genji associated Onna with his first and former lover Lady Fujitsubo as Onna San no Miya is her niece. In addition, his ego can't quite give her up to a better solution as he wants her beauty and status for his own.

13. What role do dreams play in the tale?

As a Buddhist culture, life itself was seen as but a dream with a string of attachments that must be severed before moving on. Many dreams had past characters predicting future events or of the repercussions of continuing various activities. In general, quite a few dreams were warnings. The characters also tended to view their dreams as reflections of their current position in their karmic cycle.

14. What do you make of the tale’s last heroine, Ukifune?

As the tale went on and as Murasaki learned better how to use interior dialogues and tensions between what was really happening and what the characters thought was happening, I was finding Kaoru's relationship to Agemaki to be more engaging than some of the other depicted relationships. However, Ukifune simply gets caught in an impossible (no doubt Karmic) cycle of events. She can not clarify what has happened to her nor straighten out the communication because, in essence, no one will believe her. She can not tell Kaoru, that the relationship with Niou means nothing and at the same time, she can not tell Niou that she loves Kaoru in a calm and quiet way, rather than in the passionate way she responds to Niou. So thoroughly caught in the cultural's role of women as totally passive and simply waiting, she has no choice but to make the decisions that she makes. As a modern reader, it is very difficult to not throw the book at the wall and yell...."just tell him!!!"

15. What do you think happens beyond the tale’s last page?

Life goes on.


message 3: by Jane (last edited Oct 17, 2025 09:35AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jane | 393 comments 1. What do the men in the tale value in a woman?
Men like Genji value good looks, first and foremost. Second, would be proper behavior. For example, when Genji first sees Murasaki as a child, he is attracted by her looks and her temperament: she is modest and obedient, not impudent or forward. In chapter 22, Genji states: “…if a woman is to be agreeable to a man, she must not be flighty or focused on herself but be passive and gentle.” Having skills in calligraphy, poetry, and/or music is a sign that the woman has been raised properly and is at least somewhat intelligent. Finally, there would be the rank or lineage. What makes a woman perfect, it seems, is her willingness to be exactly what the man wants, hence Genji’s desire to raise Muraski into his ideal of womanhood. In chapter XLVI, Kaoru explains that Niou favors ladies who are gentle an unassertive, who go along with what society deems acceptable and who overlook minor indiscretions (i.e., their husband’s affairs) as the workings of Karma.

In chapter XLV, a footnote states, “An important characteristic of the story is that many of the female characters are ‘nameless’ in the sense that they are identified solely in terms of their relationship to a male character.”

2. How does a man gain access to a woman, and how does a woman safeguard her dignity?
Genji just sneaks into private rooms. In chapter 21, the narrator notes that Genji never lets his son near Murasaki’s quarters because he knows what he was like as a boy. Bribing servants and handmaidens is helpful in this regard. The Major Captain gets access to Tamakazura without Genji’s permission, by involving “one of her more impulsive attendants.” In chapter 35, Kashiwaga gains access to the Third Princess by convincing one of her handmaidens to help him. And, in chapter 47, the older Uji princess remembers, “In romances of old, there isn’t a single instance of a lady who initiates an affair on her own. It’s always the lady’s women.”

Regarding dignity/reputation… Being one man’s mistress is not necessarily a terrible thing, but it’s important for the man to show the woman respect and continue to take care of her. When Genji discovers the affair between Kashiwaga and the Third Princess, he’s not too upset but thinks, “Their carelessness suggested a complete lack of consideration for him.” (670) In other words, it’s not the affair so much as the fact that he found out (because she left a letter lying around). Later, Kashiwaga will describe it as “a minor matter” that offended to Genji (p. 685).

This doesn’t apply to all women, however; the emperor’s consorts don’t have sexual freedom. Rumors and loose talk can ruin one’s reputation, so keeping an affair relatively secret is important. Oborozukiyo is a good example of this. She is made a laughingstock because everyone finds out about her affair with Genji. But because she was not “an official imperial consort,” her sexual conduct was not restricted. Hence, Suzaku reinstates her at court. (see question #5 below)

BTW, I hate how the women are basically blamed when it’s clear that a man gains access to her room without permission and rapes her – this happens with Kashiwaga and the Third Princess. On another occasion, Genji recalls that Oborozukiyo yielded to him too easily. Basically, whenever this happens, it’s the woman’s fault for not being sufficiently cool and reserved.

On p. 742 (ch. 39), Murasaki muses, “Is there any life as restricted and miserable as a woman’s? If a woman is withdrawn, quiet and meek to the point that she never experiences the poignant beauty of things, or the delights of elegant events, how can she know the glories of living or find consolation for the tedium of this unsettled world?”

3. How do the characters in the tale define personal worth? What do they admire?
Characters place value on appearance, of course, but also on talents, like dancing, playing musical instruments, calligraphy, creating incense, writing poems, etc. It is also important to know the proper way to behave in a given situation. These are all the reasons Genji is so admired – he is gorgeous, has multiple talents, and knows how to treat everyone according to their rank.

It’s also not deemed “proper” or “lucky” to be overly attached to another person, whether spouse, friend, or parent. One of the reasons Genji’s mother was disliked is that his father wanted to be with her all the time. Sometimes I got the sense that this is seen as “low class” but at other times, it’s seen as bad luck. For example, in chapter 39, when the Second Princess’s mother dies and she is prostrate with grief, the attendants worry that the behavior is “ominous.”

4. What consequences flow from the birth of Genji’s son by his father’s Empress?
Reizei (Genji’s son by Fujitsubo) becomes emperor. The Left returns to power, and Genji is granted several new titles and is eventually treated like a retired emperor. But it doesn’t seem like anyone knows that Genji is really Reizei’s father.

5. What are the reasons for Genji’s exile (chapter 13) and its consequences?
When Genji’s father passes and Suzaku becomes emperor, the Right rises in power. Genji is associated with the Left because of his first marriage, so the Minister of the Right and the Kokiden Consort (mother of Suzaku) are already threatened by him. Genji has an affair with Oborozukiyo (Misty Moon), one of the daughters of the Minster of the Right, who has been promised to the new emperor. When Genji is caught sneaking out of her rooms, he decides to leave before he is formerly charged with an offense and forced into exile.

6. How do the characters view the native (Japanese) in comparison with the foreign (Chinese)?
Chinese items such as paper, ink, incense are regarded as the finest. Also, if I remember correctly, few women know how to read/write Chinese, so it is associated with higher education?

p. 378: “Women are supposed to know nothing of Chinese verse, and so, were I to write it down, I would leave myself open to criticism that I am being presumptuous by taking on the airs of a scholar.”

7. Is there humor in the tale? How does it work?
Some of the narrator’s asides are quite funny, especially since they are often directed at male characters (as Gail points out). In chapter 19, for example, Murasaki Shikibu writes: “Genji laid out numerous precedents in making his case to His Majesty – however, since I am a woman, it would be impudent of me to record in detail their discussions of state affairs, would it not?”

I found this funny, on p. 629 in the Washburn: “Many other poems followed these, but what purpose would it serve to recite them all here? [...] Given that the setting was Sumiyoshi, no one could escape cliched allusions to thousand-year-old pine trees, and in failing to come up with something fresh and modern, the poems were tediously repetitious.”

As I mention in my review, I particularly appreciated the many ways Murasaki describes all the crying – e.g. sleeves and pillows soaked in tears. I wish I’d kept track of them all, but a few samples: “[it] brought so many tears that a fisherman might well have been able to cast his lines at her pillow.” She cried so long that she felt “as if her pillow might float away.”

8. What are the erotic elements in the tale? What is their value?
As mentioned above, a lot of what passes for erotica is a man raping a woman. I would imagine their value was to titillate the original readers.

9. Spirits speak several times in the tale. How do the characters react to these events? What do you make of them?
The spirit of the living Lady at Rokujo is responsible for the death of the Lady of the Evening Faces as well as Genji’s first wife. After her death, she possesses and almost kills Murasaki AND the Third Princess. She is really pissed off at Genji. Spirits are not necessarily ghosts but living people capable of possessing others and visiting people in their dreams. At one point, for example, Muraski’s spirit visits Genji in a dream.

11. How do you imagine the men and women in the tale spending their time when the text does not tell you what they are doing?
I would imagine they do things they are described as doing in the text: practicing instruments and calligraphy, making incense, singing and gossiping, playing Go. Hunting is mentioned as a pastime for the men, but Murasaki Shikibu doesn’t describe this, possibly because she never witnessed it since women rarely seem to leave their villas. More than once, it’s suggested that women spend their time doing nothing. For example, in chapter 51, Murasaki writes that Ukifune normally spends “her seemingly interminable days gazing out in melancholy reverie” at the mountains.

12. Why does Genji marry Onna San no Miya (the Third Princess)?
The former emperor Suzaku wants to retreat from court life and become a monk. He asks Genji to take care of her. Genji is worried about how this will affect Murasaki but ultimately goes through with it for his brother’s sake (and also because he finds the girl attractive, let’s be honest).

13. What role do dreams play in the tale?
They are taken as premonitions. E.g., the Akashi Lady’s father, the monk, has a dream that he will later interpret as a premonition that his daughter and granddaughter would rise to prominence.

14. What do you make of the tale’s last heroine, Ukifune?
She is the illegitimate half-sister of the Uji Princesses. Like many of the women, she is very passive. But we do get more of her subjectivity (compared to say, Murasaki), as we hear how and why she is torn between Kaoru and Niou. Kaoru is responsible and serious and will take care of her, but he is not passionate, and she doubts his feelings. On the other hand, she is wildly attracted to Niou, who is fickle and unfaithful. Still, as Gail points out, she is incredibly passive and unable to do much if anything to control her destiny.

15. What do you think happens beyond the tale’s last page?
Oh, more of the same.


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