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Nicholas Nickleby
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Nicholas Nickleby - Group Read 6 > Nicholas Nickleby: Chapters 11 - 23

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message 251: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 20, 2024 07:03AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
And a little more …

Dickens and the Theatre (recap)

Charles Dickens was obsessed with the theatre all his life, and we have seen just a little of that this year. There were childhood visits to the Theatre Royal, Rochester, where he saw such “wondrous scenes”. At school he staged a toy theatre version of “The Miller and his Men” for his friends, and we have see how he became an energetic amateur actor-manager in the 1840s and 1850s.

His enthusiasm for the theatre comes through in all his writing, but it is in this novel Nicholas Nickleby where it reaches such heights of verve and enthusiasm. As mentioned before, Charles Dickens actually dedicated Nicholas Nickleby to his close friend and theatrical hero, the tragedian William Charles Macready https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William...



(image attributed to John Jackson)

Charles Dickens even had an audition for a job as an actor at Covent Garden Theatre lined up in 1832, but had to cancel because of a heavy cold and swollen face. He was never to follow this up.

Charles Dickens's first love was acting, but he had to earn money and his increasing personal commitments meant that a jobbing actor was just too risky a profession. Nevertheless we see that theatrical motifs and methods permeate nearly all his fiction.


message 252: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 20, 2024 03:36PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Honest Actors and Pretenders

Although the theatrical component can only have been a vague idea in his mind - if that - (or we would find Hablot Knight Browne would have included some the the scenes on the serial wrappers) we have already seen many characters who regularly act as if they are on the stage. At moments of high emotion, they behave as if they are taking part in a melodrama, and their speech reflects this. Nicholas will declaim, and we can imagine an audience cheering him on.

Indeed it would not be long before dramatisations of Nicholas Nickleby started up on the London stage … but more on that later.

As we read more of these theatrical people, we will be able to see more aspects, such as how they behave in character, even when off the stage! There is also plenty of opportunity for Charles Dickens to record contemporary theatrical conventions, which clearly delighted him us (and us!)

There will be lots more to say, but I wanted to give a heads-up now. Peter, who knows this novel well, said that he had not noticed before how many characters seem to be acting a part: a pretence.

We can identify this already: Mr Squeers, acting the part of a learned teacher, when is actuality he is a cruel despot. His daughter Fanny, convinced her role is a beautiful much sought after “catch”, the daughter of a headmaster, and who anyone would be proud to marry. Mrs and Mr Mantalini, much given to hysterics (and who I would also be glad to see the back of, Paul as he is such a lazy and disreputable leech, except that I do find his creative turns of phrase irresistible, so Charles Dickens cannily deflects his readers there.) The Wittiterleys, that couple of fashionable social climbers who pretend to be influential in the Arts. Even Mrs Nickleby’s behaviour can be seen as an act. She carefully fainted into a chair, for instance. And others can probably think of more.

But compare all these with a real actor, who acts for his living. Yes, Mr Crummles has an actor’s manner, but look at his behaviour and sensitivity. He happily welcomes two strangers to share his hot meal, with no mention of payment. He picks up signs that Nicholas is not happy, and asks directly what is wrong. He gives good advice about the fairly ridiculous half-baked plan for Nicholas to become a deckhand. And without more ado, he welcomes both of them to his theatre troupe, clearly intending that they should share in the profits, as do all the actors.

We know already that the one actor we have seen so far (apart from his 2 young sons) Mr Crummles is good-hearted, open and honest. I like him already 🥰


message 253: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 20, 2024 03:40PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
And yet more …

The descriptions of Nicholas and Smike’s walk are authentic. (I can attest to this, having walked in the area for a week on school journey with lots of children!)

The Devil’s Punch Bowl

Thus is just outside Hindhead, Surrey and is a large hollow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%2...



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...


message 254: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 20, 2024 07:09AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
There’s lots more, but please add your thoughts! Our story is really moving along now 😊


message 255: by Claudia (last edited Oct 20, 2024 07:24AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Claudia | 935 comments Thank you Jean!

Poor Smike - who has nevertheless drawn the attention of Mr Crummles! - could not have made any difference between Portsmouth and Port-Royal, but Dickens had certainly!

Rest assured, even some commuters at this famous station on the RER line in Paris do not know what Port-Royal used to be:

"Port-Royal is a Catholic monastery from the Counter-Reformation period, exemplary in many respects.

Its destiny was exceptional because of the influence of the powerful personalities who were involved in its history, from Mother Angélique Arnauld to the abbot of Saint-Cyran, and also because of Jansenism, of which the monastery is said to have been the seat.

Rather than adhering to a certain doctrine of grace, Port-Royal was characterised by a particular spirit. Most of the Catholic Church, with the Jesuits as its driving wing, was committed to a compromise between humanism and Christianity, but Port-Royal affirmed the absolute nature of God, the nothingness of man without God, and the worthlessness of a society without God: an attitude that was archaic in its anti-humanism, but modern in the promotion of the individual that it indirectly favoured. The clash of these two trends, and the brutal persecution to which the second was subjected, made Port-Royal a symbol. But the great destiny of Port-Royal has above all been illustrated by great writers. Port-Royal belongs to the history of thought and literature. Pascal flourished there; Racine was formed there. The writings it gave rise to are of exceptional value, from Fontaine's naive Mémoires and Racine's pious Abrégé to Sainte-Beuve's monumental masterpiece and the major works of contemporary research. There is no period that has not sought to define itself in relation to Port-Royal."

(From Encyclopaedia Universalis)


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Lee (leex1f98a) | 504 comments Thank you Claudia for this wonderful history to show us what would have been familiar knowledge to Dickens. I wonder if that monastery is still in existence? Travelers go to Paris & London as tourists by the millions I guess; yet so few of us know the centuries of history there. Humbling, for sure.

have forgotten what Jansenism is so will be pulling out my church history books today.


message 257: by Lee (last edited Oct 20, 2024 09:11AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (leex1f98a) | 504 comments Katy wrote: "He may not feel guilt about anything he does to the living, but it may be harder to answer to the dead if you believe in an afterlife."
What a stunning perception, Katy! It seems to point to a mystery about Ralph and his brother that we do not yet know!

And Chapter 19 is my absolute favorite so far in this novel!


message 258: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 21, 2024 12:18PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
OK, I think I wrote a post for later, but had better put something here now ...

Portsmouth

Portsmouth was (and remains) an important English coastal city and port. It was extremely important to Charles Dickens all his life, and he kept returning to it:



Charles Dickens was born in Portsmouth on 7 February 1812 at 1 Mile End Terrace, Landport. This house, which is now 393 Old Commercial Road, had been the home of his parents since 1809, when they first moved to the city. Mile End was so named as it was around one mile from the main Portsmouth gate. Among the many houses built here around 1800 were four fairly modest town houses, which formed Mile End Terrace. These houses all had two main living floors (each of two rooms) with semi-basements and attics to accommodate the service rooms (such as the kitchen) and servants’ quarters. As with other houses at the time, there was no running water and lighting would have been by candles or oil lamps.

Today we have the Charles Dickens Birthplace Museum there.



(attribution austriantraveler)

When Charles Dickens was born, Portsmouth was rapidly expanding. From around 1700, Portsmouth went through huge population growth, driven in no small part by the Dockyard, which was hiring vast swathes of men – and in doing so brought people to the city from far afield. By 1800, Portsmouth had a population of around four times the size of Southampton – the next largest town in Hampshire.

It was to this busy, expanding area that John Dickens brought his new wife Elizabeth in the summer of 1809. John was transferred to Portsmouth from his job at the Navy Pay Office in London, and offered a salary of £120 per annum. Rent on his Mile End Terrace home was £35 a year – representing over a quarter of his salary and perhaps highlighting a taste for the extravagant that was to land John Dickens and his family in a debtor’s prison a few years later.

Even though they were to move house many times during Charles Dickens's childhood, he retained an affection for Portsmouth and used to travel there to watch the ships coming to and fro. We have seen what an abiding connection he felt with the sea, and affection for sea-faring folk, whom he often depicted in his works.

This is what was in his mind. Charles Dickens's picture of Nicholas at this stage is a bit of wish fulfilment in two ways: dreaming of going to sea and having adventures, just as his childhood heroes in favourite books such as Robinson Crusoe did, but then having the wonderful opportunity of a life in the theatre (and we will see how that pans out.)

Claudia (and Lee) Thank you for the interesting French history, but I do not think that Charles Dickens had that monastery his mind, even if he had heard of it, (I hadn't - it's not famous to English people) or the Catholic history, although he may well have known the French writers you mention. And I seem to remember he mentioned a "Port Royal" in Martin Chuzzlewit - but that was in Jamaica.

However Charles Dickens's connection with the seaport of Portsmouth was very strong. Sorry, but I have to call it as I see it! And obviously, if you find any connection to the contrary, do please let us know 😊


Claudia | 935 comments Lee wrote: "Thank you Claudia for this wonderful history to show us what would have been familiar knowledge to Dickens. I wonder if that monastery is still in existence? Travelers go to Paris & London as touri..."

Indeed Dickens was certainly not connected with that monastery which has been not operating for centuries now as the nuns were persecuted and driven out of it. Yet it was the melting-pot of Jansenism in 17th century and theological controversies, and it has been a mandatory subject for theologians, even not Catholic.

One could not study Pascal Phèdre or Andromache / Britannicus / Berenice by Jean Racine without talking about Port-Royal - a chapel and a few remnants are still standing.

Why would Dickens quote Port-Royal if he had not heard a little bit about it from fellow writers or French intellectuals he no doubt met? If not, it may be well be the one in Jamaica, perhaps better known by his readers!!!

In our context, I think Dickens wanted to show with a hint of humour that Smike was happy to follow Nicholas anywhere but had no notion of geography (be it Portsmouth or the Jamaican Port-Royal or the Paris one)!


message 260: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 20, 2024 01:59PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

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Claudia - Ah, I have found the bit you are referencing:

"Smike nodded his head and smiled, but expressed no other emotion; for whether they had been bound for Portsmouth or Port Royal would have been alike to him, so they had been bound together."

Yes, as you say this is "Dickens show[ing] with a hint of humour that Smike was happy to follow Nicholas anywhere but had no notion of geography".

However I'm afraid the joke only works if it is the Port Royal in Jamaica, which is on the other side of the world from England not just across the channel in France! You will know that in several of his books Charles Dickens has some young man going to sea, i.e. travelling across the world, probably never to be seen again, such as in Little Dorrit. It was an arduous and dangerous journey in those days, whereas travelling to France was relatively easy, or Charles Dickens himself would not have viewed it as his favourite holiday home.


message 261: by Sue (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sue | 1165 comments I’m enjoying this turn of events and the potential of Nicholas’s new life, with Smike included. Jean, the generosity of the wages vs what was offered by Squeers is amazing as is the simple fact of the shared food. This should be a fun world to watch.


message 262: by Katy (new) - rated it 4 stars

Katy | 289 comments There are two quotes I liked from this chapter.

And yet he hailed the morning on which he had resolved to quit London with a light heart, and sprang from his bed with an elasticity of spirit which is happily the lot of young persons, or the world would never be stocked with old ones. I remember having that youthful optimism. Indeed, it is probably necessary for the young to enable them to go forth and begin a life.

The second quote I liked, which made me laugh, was when Nicholas responded to Noggs worry that he would forget to write.

‘I am not very likely to,’ rejoined Nicholas. ‘I have not so many friends that I shall grow confused among the number, and forget my best one.’


message 263: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
It's sounding really exciting, isn't it Sue, and I liked both those quotations when I read them too, Katy 😊


message 264: by Sue (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sue | 1165 comments Katy, I added that first quote to my update feed. Love it.

Jean, yes indeed looking forward to what’s ahead.


Lori  Keeton | 1099 comments I really enjoyed reading your posts Jean, about real actors versus the pretenders we’ve met so far. Mr. Crummles does seem authentic and kindhearted and I am looking forward to seeing how this new path plays out for Nicholas and Smike.

I love the way DPickens draws out some bits of background on Smike through his memory. I’m curious to know who the withered man could be that brought him to Dothebys. The things Smike remembers are interesting as well. We have a clock that could have some importance at some point. I hope to learn more about Smike’s past. Where is this old house that he was kept in and afraid of? Who was he living with?
Oh Dickens! You just drop these tidbits in and dangle them in front of us so we can wonder!!


message 266: by Peter (new) - rated it 4 stars

Peter | 249 comments When Nicholas meets Crummles I believe we are entering new and much more favourable circumstances for himself and Smike. What is favourable for these two characters will mean, by extension, more favourable circumstances for Kate as well.

After a long and arduous journey Nicholas and Smike come to an inn. Nicholas says to the innkeeper ‘I want to get on … I scarcely know what to do’ to which the landlord replies “I wouldn’t go on if it were me.’ The landlord continues his advice to Nicholas with the phrase ‘Not if I knew when I was well off.’

We know that Nicholas and Smike have been traveling for a long time - from the time they escaped Dotheboys Hall to this point in the novel. By coincidence, or is it design, Newman Noggs has seen Nicholas off on his journey both times.

At the inn Nicholas is offered food by an unknown man. The offer of food, rest, and employment are all unexpected. Nicholas’s fortunes, could they be turning at last? While Mr Vincent Crummles may seem to be someone odd, he is an oasis for Nicholas and Smike. He explains that the essence of drama is to pit a small person against a much larger adversary. Here, I see Dickens very subtly pointing the reader towards Nicholas’s conflict with his uncle Ralph Nickleby.

What I found to be very intriguing was the way Dickens ended this chapter. When the offer for employment was made we read that ‘it was a bargain and (Nicholas) gave Mr Vincent Crummles his hand upon it.’ When we look back on all of Nicholas’s previous encounters with employment he has been abused, humiliated, insulted, and taken advantage of; here, in contrast Nicholas has been offered food and employment by someone who is able to judge the true nature of Nicholas. What is most impressive in this chapter is how the chapter ends. The two men come to a mutually acceptable agreement and shake hands. The shaking of hands, the true symbol of respect, agreement, friendship, and trust.

Has Nicholas finally found a safe place to be?


Shirley (stampartiste) | 488 comments This chapter left me very optimistic for Nicholas and Smike's future. Mr. Crummles seems kind, genuine and intuitive of others' emotions. He also appears to be a successful businessman. When Crummles offered to hire Nicholas as an actor and possibly playwright, I wondered if Dickens was projecting his own dreams onto Nicholas. If so, it will be fun to see just how successful Nicholas will become in the theatrical business. And I do hope that Smike also attains success and happiness. He is so deserving of a break in life!


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Jim Puskas (wyenotgo) | 194 comments I'm not sure I share Nicholas's optimism or that of my fellow readers in contemplating a life in the theatre. But even if the intriguing pound a week income doesn't materialize, at least Mr. Crummles is unlikely to turn out a complete scoundrel like Squeers.
I suspect that Dickens may have had an overly romantic fascination with life on the stage.


message 269: by Katy (last edited Oct 20, 2024 09:25PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Katy | 289 comments I, too, am happy to see something positive come about for Nicholas and Smike. But there are a lot of chapters left in the book. It can't be all smooth sailing from here. I wonder what will happen next.


message 270: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 21, 2024 05:47AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Lori wrote: "I really enjoyed reading your posts Jean, about real actors versus the pretenders we’ve met so far. Mr. Crummles does seem authentic and kindhearted ..."

Thank you Lori- and yes - once we see this we find we are identifying other characters who are just deceiving themselves, and playing a role, don't we 😊

"I love the way Dickens draws out some bits of background on Smike through his memory" - yes, its such skilful writing isn't it, and cranks up the intrigue as you say, with these tidbits.

Ah! I wondered if anyone would pick up the clock motif! We've seen before, that in Charles Dickens clocks and watches always indicate something significant; we just do not know what it is, yet 😆


message 271: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 21, 2024 05:54AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Peter wrote: "[Crummles] explains that the essence of drama is to pit a small person against a much larger adversary. Here, I see Dickens very subtly pointing the reader towards Nicholas’s conflict with his uncle Ralph Nickleby...."

What a fabulous insight into one of the themes Peter! Thank you.

I also enjoyed the little bits of advice from the innkeeper, who clearly did not want to lose custom. I think the narrator had given us the impression that the road may not have been as bad as he described ... So when the innkeeper gave good advice about sharing another guest's meal, rather than insisting on Nicholas purchasing food, I really warmed towards him. As a businessman, he could have just fleeced him after all.


message 272: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 21, 2024 12:28PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: " When Crummles offered to hire Nicholas as an actor and possibly playwright, I wondered if Dickens was projecting his own dreams onto Nicholas ..."

Yes, I'm sure there is a lot of wish-fulfillment here Shirley!

Jim - "I suspect that Dickens may have had an overly romantic fascination with life on the stage."

Well yes, in that he portrays larger-than-life scenes of what he really enjoys about the theatrical life. He glamourises it, up to a point.

On the other hand, we have learned over our year's reading of (and about) his theatrical ventures, that Charles Dickens knew this aspect of life very well indeed! He was familiar enough with it to not rely on it as his main source of income, but wisely adopted it as a much-loved subsidiary career.

And it was not just in writing pieces that Charles Dickens threw himself into it, but acting in them, being the director and manager, involved in the financial planning, the casting, even having a hand in the scenery and music! Charles Dickens really could not bear to leave anything to anyone else, and worked himself into the ground.

So yes, he had a romantic view, Jim but only in the sense that any expert enthuses about their subject. And if creativity is involved, then they are going to heighten what appeals.

"But there are a lot of chapters left in the book. It can't be all smooth sailing from here."

Oh yes, lots of highs and lows yet, as you say, Sue😊


message 273: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 21, 2024 06:28AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

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Chapter 23: Treats of the Company of Mr. Vincent Crummles, and of his Affairs, Domestic and Theatrical

Travelling with Mr. Crummles is easier since he has a pony. Nicholas and Mr Crummles sit in the front of the carriage, and the Crummles boys and Smike sit in the back. Mr Crummles entertains Nicholas with various stories about his pony, whose parents apparently had both also been on stage. The pony’s mother, he says:

“ate apple-pie at a circus for upwards of fourteen years … fired pistols, and went to bed in a nightcap; and, in short, took the low comedy entirely.”

The father of the pony was a dancer, but “was rather a low sort of pony” who became an alcoholic drinking the clown’s wine, and choked to death on a glass he chewed off.

When they arrive in Portsmouth, Nicholas and Smike are nervous about being in a new place. They pass many playbills and then have to grope their way through various paraphernalia. Everything seems “coarse, cold, gloomy, and wretched.

‘Is this a theatre?’ whispered Smike, in amazement; ‘I thought it was a blaze of light and finery.’“


Nicholas explains that it is not like that during the daytime.

Mr. Crummles introduces Nicholas to his wife, a large lady with a sepulchral voice and an iron grip. (Nicholas is still going by the name of Mr. Johnson.) On stage, a ballet called “The Savage and the Maiden” is being rehearsed:



“The Indian Savage and the Maiden” - Fred Barnard - 1875

“a little girl in a dirty white frock with tucks up to the knees, short trousers, sandaled shoes, white spencer, pink gauze bonnet, green veil and curl papers; who turned a pirouette, cut twice in the air, [and] turned another pirouette …”



“Nicholas and Smike behind the Scenes” - Harry Furniss - 1910

This is the Crummles’ daughter, the “Infant Phenomenon”—Miss Ninetta Crummles. Mr and Mrs Crummles are proud of their talented daughter, and boast about her fan letters. Nicholas asks how old she is, and is told by Mr Crummles:

“looking steadily in his questioner’s face, as some men do when they have doubts about being implicitly believed in what they are going to say”

that she is just ten years old. Nicholas remarks how extraordinary that is, and the narrator comments wryly:

“It was; for the infant phenomenon, though of short stature, had a comparatively aged countenance, and had moreover been precisely the same age—not perhaps to the full extent of the memory of the oldest inhabitant, but certainly for five good years. But she had been kept up late every night, and put upon an unlimited allowance of gin-and-water from infancy, to prevent her growing tall.”



“Mr. and Mrs. Crummles and The Phenomenon” - Sol Eytinge Jnr. 1867

The actor who had been playing opposite the Infant Phenomenon then approaches, to be introduced. This is Mr. Folair, who makes flattering remarks to Mr Crummles about how talented his daughter is. Privately though, to Nicholas, he says:

“Infant humbug, sir … There isn’t a female child of common sharpness in a charity school, that couldn’t do better than that. She may thank her stars she was born a manager’s daughter.”

Mr Folair is resentful because he is hardly ever allowed to perform his speciality dance the highland fling on stage, even though he has been popular in it:

“while the “infant phenomenon” has been grinning through artificial flowers at five people and a baby in the pit, and two boys in the gallery, every night.”

Mr Folair introduces Nicholas to the tragedy actor, Mr. Lenville. He too has a complaint to make; that he only gets to perform when Mr. Crummles decides not to do the part. He calls Mr Crummles “old bricks and mortar … because his style of acting is rather in the heavy and ponderous way”.

Several other actors in the company are present, and there is a little group of actresses. There is Miss Snevellicci:

“who could do anything, from a medley dance to Lady Macbeth, and also always played some part in blue silk knee-smalls at her benefit—glancing, from the depths of her coal-scuttle straw bonnet, at Nicholas”

although she pretends to be absorbed in telling an amusing story to her friend Miss Ledrook. There are several more actresses in the company.

When Mr Folair drifts away, Mr. Vincent Crummles publicly introduces Nicholas, “the new actor as a prodigy of genius and learning.”

Miss Snevellicci introduces herself to Nicholas, claiming that she recognises him. Nicholas replies with much gallantry:

“I am sure I never saw you before; I couldn’t have forgotten it.”

and they continue in this manner until she skips away to talk to her friend:

“Miss Ledrook evidently joked Miss Snevellicci about being struck with Nicholas; for, after some playful whispering, Miss Snevellicci hit Miss Ledrook very hard on the backs of her hands, and retired up, in a state of pleasing confusion.”

Mr. Crummles tells the group which plays they will be performing, and the rehearsal times. He also says there will be a new play:

“the name’s not known yet, but everybody will have a good part. Mr. Johnson will take care of that.”

Nicholas is startled, and when he has Mr. Crummles on his own except for Mr Crummles’ family and Smike, says rather worriedly:

“Upon my word … I don’t think I can be ready by Monday.”

But Mr Crummles tells him he merely wants him to translate a French play, and put his name to it.

“’Damn me,’ said Mr. Crummles, angrily, ‘if I haven’t often said that I wouldn’t have a man or woman in my company that wasn’t master of the language, so that they might learn it from the original, and play it in English, and save all this trouble and expense.’”

The Crummles invite Nicholas to their home for dinner. They live in St Thomas’s Street, in the house belonging to Bulph, a pilot.

They have a hearty meal and Nicholas asks if there are many interested in the theatre in Portsmouth, but is told sadly that there are not. On being asked, Mrs. Crummles reveals that she teaches the acting arts:

“’I have received pupils here. I imparted tuition to the daughter of a dealer in ships’ provision; but it afterwards appeared that she was insane when she first came to me. It was very extraordinary that she should come, under such circumstances.’
Not feeling quite so sure of that, Nicholas thought it best to hold his peace.“


Mr Crummles is wondering what parts would suit Nicholas best. Perhaps he would like to play opposite the Infant Phenomenon? Nicholas hastily says he might be a little awkward, and so it is decided that Nicholas should study the part of Romeo and a couple of other parts, as:

“You can easily knock them off; one part helps the other so much.”

There are many places to stay in Portsmouth, but most are either too expensive, or the cheap ones are not habitable. Nicholas begins to think he might have to sleep in the theatre as it is getting late. However, he finally finds:

“two small rooms up three pair of stairs, or rather two pair and a ladder, at a tobacconist’s shop, on the Common Hard: a dirty street leading down to the dockyard”

at which he and Smike are glad to be able to stay without paying rent in advance.


message 274: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 21, 2024 06:28AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
This is the end of Installment 7. Installment 8 starts with Chapter 24 in a new thread, on Wednesday.


message 275: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 21, 2024 06:38AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
And a little more …

The “Infant Phenomenon” and other child novelty acts

1. The “Infant Phenomenon”


Following the sensational popularity of Master Henry Betty on the London stage in 1804, when he was 13, a glut of child actors, often billed as infant phenomena appeared on the English stage for decades. These prodigies were generally boys, but one famous young actress, Jean Davenport (1829 - 1903), who performed in Portsmouth in March 1837 has been widely identified as Dickens’s model for Ninette Crummles.

2. Calculating Boys

In chapter 14 reference was made to “calculating boys”. Mathematical prodigies were popular curiosities in the 19th century. One whom Charles Dickens may have had in mind was George Parker Bidder (1806 - 1878) who was exhibited by his father as “the calculating phenomenon”. He went on to become an eminent civil engineer. A contemporary rival Zerah Colburn was alleged to have had 6 fingers on each hand and 6 toes on each foot … thought to be the explanation for his calculating skills.

In Charles Dickens’s library after his death there was a copy of the 6 volume “The (Kirby's) Wonderful and Scientific (Eccentric) Museum” (1803) by R.S. Kirby, which mentions both of these boys.


message 276: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 21, 2024 06:40AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
3. Charles Dickens himself

was a precocious child; perhaps indeed a prodigy. His father John Dickens used to exhibit his son’s skills, taking him round local inns and so forth, where the infant Charles used to recite and sing popular ballads, and dance. He was so tiny that he had to be lifted on to the tables!

One popular song in his repertoire which was regularly requested was “Cats Meat”, taken here from Charles Hindley's" Cries of Old London”, which was published later in 1880.

Hark! how the Pussies make a rout –
   To buy you can’t refuse;
   So may you never be without
   The music of their mews.
   Here’s famous meat – all lean, no fat –
   No better in Great Britain;
   Come, buy a penn’orth for your Cat –
   A happ’orth for your Kitten!“


I think there’s a rousing chorus and more verses, but you get the idea! A “cat’s meat man” was a regular sight in Victorian London. One famous one was actually a woman, Harriet Hardiman, who went out most days with a handcart full of chopped meat on skewers to sell to cat owners. This was horsemeat—gnarly leftovers collected from nearby slaughterhouses.

The artist Thomas Rowlandson immortalised the Cat’s Meat Man in 1818




message 277: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 21, 2024 12:33PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
And yet more …

“twelve lengths” is theatre slang for an actor’s part. (One length is 42 lines, thus 12 lengths is 504 lines

A pilot is a local sailor, who knows the waters so can steer ships into the harbour.

The sort of houses the Crummles family and then Nicholas and Smike would be lodging in, are like the house in Portsmouth I posted a photo of yesterday, which is now the Charles Dickens Birthplace Museum,

Did you notice the interesting change of tense, when Charles Dickens, begins to talk about Portsmouth. He was born there, and although the family left the town before he could have been able to remember it, he loved the town, and kept returning for visits. This change to the present tense shows it is obviously a personally felt description. Although he wrote Nicholas Nickleby when living in Doughty St., London (now the Charles Dickens Museum) he obviously for those few moments was full of nostalgia, imagining himself back where he had been born. 🥰


message 278: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 21, 2024 01:33PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
What a long chapter! Did you enjoy it? I felt it was a real labour of love for Charles Dickens; his passion for the theatre really comes through. Yes, it’s satirical and hilarious in places, but has so much heart too.

Once again I'm torn to have a favourite quotation. I think it has to be about the pony’s mother, who:

“ate apple-pie at a circus for upwards of fourteen years … fired pistols, and went to bed in a nightcap; and, in short, took the low comedy entirely.”

Such exuberant - and ridiculous - humour 🤣

I’m looking forward to seeing all your favourite parts. This is the final chapter in this thread, so please feel free to comment on it at any time. If you are catching up, we have a day free now, and if you have not yet commented, (or not for a while) but are following, then please share your thoughts. We'd love to read them!

The new thread opens on Wednesday.


message 279: by Peter (new) - rated it 4 stars

Peter | 249 comments This is a wonderful chapter. When compared to Dotheboys Hall, the long distances walked by Nicholas and Smike, and the confrontations with Ralph Nickleby, chapter 23 is light, gentle, humourous, and easy. The Crummles family are delightful. They are not rich, they are not inconsiderate. They are actors and I enjoyed their personalities being created by Dickens on the page.

I found Lenville’s description of Mr Crummles’ nickname ‘bricks and mortar’ delightful ‘because his style of acting is ‘rather in the heavy and ponderous way.’ I could picture Crummles on the stage.

In ‘Great Expectations’ an amateur actor asks Pip what he thought of his acting and Pip replies he thought it was ‘massive and concrete.’ I wonder if these descriptions were creations of Dickens’s imagination or they were, in fact, part of the theatrical slang employed by actors
in the 19C.


message 280: by Sara (last edited Oct 21, 2024 04:18PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1540 comments Unbelievably, I have caught up! I have been reading about 5 chapters behind most of the time and totally enjoying all the comments. As always, I have an entire volume of information from Jean that I did not have when reading this the first time around--what a difference it makes!

This chapter was marvelous for me, coming on the heals of our summer theatrical readings and feeling fully acquainted with Dickens love and knowledge of the theater. I am anxious to see where Nicholas lands as an actor and I am more than a little curious about Smike's origins.

I somehow have connected Crummles with Fezziwig in my mind, they both seem generous and happy employers, with the best interests of their employees at heart.

My worries for Nicholas are now less intense than my worries for Kate.


Connie  G (connie_g) | 1036 comments While the Crummles are kind to Nicholas and Smike, I was cringing when I read about the infant phenomenon. She did not grow because she was fed a diet of gin and water, just empty calories without the nutrients a child needs. She may look cute now, but what will happen to the girl when she's older? The Crummles are trying to draw an audience to their theatre, but they seem short-sighted and irresponsible when it comes to their daughter's future.


message 282: by Kelly (last edited Oct 22, 2024 09:50AM) (new) - added it

Kelly (sunny_reader_girl) | 88 comments I read this chapter last night, after having gone to a community theatre myself the day before. It was perfect timing. (I saw a local production of Beauty and the Beast. It was delightful! I went with my mom and my 13-year-old daughter.)

Anyway... needless to say, I loved this chapter. I enjoyed the comraderie, teasing, back-and-forth, and general spirit of the acting troupe. The behind-his-hand comments Mr Folair made about the infant phenomenon revealed some envy and made me question the true talent of the little girl!

And I have another favorite character - Mrs Grudden. This jack-of-all-trades seems indespensible to the theatre and the group. For some reason, I loved her description:

"Lastly, there was Mrs Grudden in a brown cloth pelisse and a beaver bonnet, who assisted Mrs Crummles in her domestic affairs, and took money at the doors, and dressed the ladies, and swept the house, and held the prompt book when everybody else was on for the last scene, and acted any kind of part on any emergency without ever learning it, and was put down in the bills under my name or names whatever, that occurred to Mr Crummles as looking well in print."


message 283: by Sam (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sam | 445 comments These breaks come in handy. The last two times I meant to post Jean was in the middle of her uploading so I put it off.

First, although the term "not so green as she is cabbage-looking" was new to me, I understood and will comment on that thought when we see more of Mrs .Nickleby.

Peter glad you mentioned "pimping," since that was my exact thought.

Lee, I am so sorry over your loss. From what you said, I believe you'll still have sweet memories of your companion upon which to reflect. That has helped relieve grief I have felt from lost pets.

I will keep it short for now. I like the theater direction Dickens has taken and like the idea of pretense and other theatrical themes that we may find.

On names Folair caught my attention and we will see if he is "full air," for his dancing skills or full of air in an empty blusterous way. But I loved how he was introduced to Nicholas, immediately complaining about fellow actors in the most delightful theater gossiping way. Things never seem to change.


Claudia | 935 comments Sam wrote: "These breaks come in handy. The last two times I meant to post Jean was in the middle of her uploading so I put it off.

First, although the term "not so green as she is cabbage-looking" was new to..."


Folair caught my attention too, Sam! It may be a pun on fol air, fol being an old and poetic form of fou, crazy. Just like Dr Folamour. Or another pun on follet, like feu follet, Irrlicht in Faust I by Goethe.


message 285: by Kathleen (last edited Oct 22, 2024 01:26PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kathleen | 246 comments Like Peter, I’m appreciating the new possibilities for Nicholas, especially when compared to Dotheboys Hall.

Jean, all your additional bits of information about the period, about Dickens himself, and all the illustrations, are greatly enhancing our experience with NN. Thank you so much!

I also appreciate the extra days we have to play catch up. 😊


message 286: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 24, 2024 08:31AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Peter mentioned ‘massive and concrete’ as a description of an actor's demeanour in certain roles. To me it sounds like an authentic description of some great Shakespearean actor, in a newspaper review - possibly it is even of William Charles Macready, to whom he dedicated it - but later than this novel?

I like your examples.


message 287: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 24, 2024 08:38AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Sara wrote: "This chapter was marvelous for me, coming on the heals of our summer theatrical readings and feeling fully acquainted with Dickens love and knowledge of the theater ..."

Sara! 😁I'm delighted you have caught up ... I had been wondering. As you say, we can benefit so much more if we have read some of the short plays, although this is a delightful novel at any stage of reading, I think.

I can understand your mental connection with Mr Fezziwig. They have similar traits in some ways, don't they, just as Ralph Nickleby has with Ebenezer Scrooge.


message 288: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 24, 2024 08:54AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Connie wrote: "While the Crummles are kind to Nicholas and Smike, I was cringing when I read about the infant phenomenon. She did not grow because she was fed a diet of gin and water, just empty calories without ..."

Ah this is an excellent point, Connie.

I had wondered whether anyone would raise the topic of child abuse. Although it's a parody, we do have to believe in it as we are reading, and I gave details of prodigies in real life who were treated this way. Surely now we would consider this to be unacceptable.

Then my mind flew to various other ways nowadays that children's talents are used largely to gratify their parents. The East European female gymnasts who are kept physically small and stopped from passing puberty by drugs (hormones?) The Chinese children who have to practise the piano or other musical instrument all the hours they are awake (they even have 3 quarter size violins made especially). Here there have been scandals when children in famous sports have been bullied to keep their top-ranking positions in world events. And what about the American "Beauty Pageants" for tiny tots? I'm sure there are more.

Maybe our century is not that much better, after all?

What I think Charles Dickens does do, to alleviate this, is to give her a very loving family in the Crummleses, and a loving extended family too in the troupe and her audience. I get the impression that she behaves younger than her years anyway, and loves what she does, for now.


message 289: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 24, 2024 09:05AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Kelly - Thanks so much for bringing out Mrs Grudden! She is one of those characters who can pass you by, like Mortimer Knag's servant, and when you think of the books afterwards, you only have a vague memory. But yes, what a character! 😆

Kelly Sam and Claudia - I too like Mr Folair's (full of air) sarcastic asides and gossip too.

Sam - I'm so sorry we have clashed in posting sometimes, and do not like the thought that we may be missing your comments as a result. I'll try to vary the times I post a bit, within my day.

Katheen - I'm really pleased you are enjoying the enriched experience.


message 290: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 24, 2024 09:10AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
I hope everyone has found the new thread, with chapter 24 which I opened yesterday and now has 2 chapters in (including today's chapter). Please LINK HERE and add your comments, and if you want to see each as it comes up, remember to click the "Notify me when people comment" box on each thread.


message 291: by Lee (last edited Oct 26, 2024 01:30PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (leex1f98a) | 504 comments Katy wrote: "There are two quotes I liked from this chapter." from Favorite Quotes, Ch 22, Katy's message 262.

I wanted to add my favorite quote here, which is an entire paragraph and occurred just before Nicholas & Smike had come across the rim of the Devil's Punch Bowl. (And thank you Jean for that beautiful photograph, which showed England to be much more hilly that I had thought from my visit to London!)

When I read this paragraph, I felt I had "returned" to the narrative beauty of Dickens's writing, which actually I had been missing so far in Nicholas Nickleby. And oh --- these lines are so beautiful and so exactly a true comment upon human ageing!

"The day wore on, and all these bright colours subsided, and assumed a quieter tint, like young hopes softened down by time, or youthful features by degrees resolving into the calm and serenity of age." (view spoiler)


message 292: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
I loved that quotation too Lee, thank you. As I remember the entire chapter is beautifully descriptive, and gives us a break from the grotesque horror of the previous ones, and the fast-paced adventure to come 😊


message 293: by Dee (new) - rated it 5 stars

Dee Miller | 15 comments Lee
I am listening to NN, and I replayed that passage a number of times because they DO present a beautiful picture of aging. Thank you for sharing them so I can savor them in print.


message 294: by Werner (new) - rated it 4 stars

Werner | 285 comments I've now caught up to the end of this installment (and a bit beyond); and again, I can say I've thoroughly enjoyed following the comments on this thread! Jean, your explanation about Miss La Creevy locking her tea caddy was, for me, especially helpful. I'd never heard of that concept; so I was assuming that she was locking her front door, and since I associated a "fender" with the fireplace, was pretty bemused as to how to visualize her putting the key under it. :-) The material you shared was a revelation!

Now, I'm champing at the bit to go on to the next thread.


message 295: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
We're looking forward to your thoughts too, Werner! I was wondering how far you'd got!


message 296: by Werner (new) - rated it 4 stars

Werner | 285 comments I'm actually up into the beginning of Chapter 26.


message 297: by Ruth (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ruth Ashby (nerdydoodler) | 5 comments Kelly wrote: "Jean, yes! My question had been answered. Thank you very much! I should have responded directly to you about that.

Ah, we finally see the confrontation between Nicholas and his uncle. The drama of..."


Kelly wrote: "Lee, I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your dog. What was his/her name? That is one of the hardest things.

Thank you for sharing the parallel between Nicholas/Smike and Ruth/Naomi. I think of Sm..."


I also liked Nicholas' dramatic entrance. It made me smile to think of Dickens setting up the dialogue just right for him to have that moment.

Ooh, that is a cool contrast (the difference between Nicholas and Mrs. Nickelby's ways of facing poverty). They're both choosing poverty for another person's sake, too.

Mrs. Nickelby's reaction felt overly dramatic to me, and the focus was all on her. It was like she was consoling herself by saying "at least I can be the heroine of a tragic story." She's able to toss out these names of awful places so flippantly because she refuses to believe that real, live hardships could happen to her family until they're right in front of her face.


Nicholas, on the other hand, fully realizes the hardship he's going to be facing. And he's doing it for Kate and his mother. His focus is on how his choice will help them, not how his sacrifice makes him seem impressive or laudable.


message 298: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Nov 01, 2024 05:17AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Ruth wrote: "Mrs. Nickelby's reaction felt overly dramatic to me, and the focus was all on her ..."

Yes, Mrs Nickleby is so self-absorbed that often we feel we are listening in to her inner commentary on life! Great observations as to the difference between her and Nicholas, Ruth. Both her children tend to tolerate and be kind to her her, rather than looking to her for advice, but sometimes we find that Kate has more patience with her mother than Nicholas does - perhaps because she is with her more often.

It's good to see you commenting again, thank you!


message 299: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Nov 01, 2024 05:18AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
For anyone needing it, please LINK HERE for the next thread (ch 24 onwards) and add your comments, and if you want to see each as it comes up, remember to click the "Notify me when people comment" box on each thread.


message 300: by Bonnie (new) - rated it 3 stars

Bonnie | 17 comments Question from Chapter 16, "Nicholas seeks to employ himself in a New Capacity, and being unsuccessful, accepts an engagement as Tutor in a Private Family"

Even though being secretary to the MP was doing some of the MP's own work, it paid triple the amount of tutoring the girls; 15 shillings a week vs. 5 shillings a week. And it would pay him as much in a month and a half as working at the school would have in a year, five pounds a year (plus room and board).

Plus, the work of being a secretary seems comparatively enjoyable: reading, writing, keeping up with newspapers and magazines, doing errands in West minister, running into rich powerful people now and then. Doesn't it seem like the job of secretary to MP is much better, with more opportunities and interest, than teaching children in a poor family?
Plus TRIPLE the money. I guess I don't see why he didn't take that job.


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