Dickensians! discussion

Nicholas Nickleby
This topic is about Nicholas Nickleby
55 views
Nicholas Nickleby - Group Read 6 > Nicholas Nickleby: Chapters 11 - 23

Comments Showing 201-250 of 312 (312 new)    post a comment »

message 201: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 17, 2024 05:46PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Shirley - You analysed Ralph's burgeoning better feelings brilliantly!

It seems such a deliberate progression, and precisely described by Charles Dickens, doesn't it. We were told that he had a soft spot for Kate from the start, but could not resist "trying for the lord" as Sir Mulberry Hawk said.

I appreciated everyone's thoughts on this. What a shameful position for a nicely brought up 19th century English female to find herself in. And so well observed too, as even now, with admittedly different moral codes of what is acceptable, it is a well-known fact that the victim often feels guilty!

I have no doubt that Kate will fall in with her uncle's expressed wishes to keep this a secret 😡We will have to see if he changes as a result. Up to this point he has seemed very like an early Scrooge, as several have said.

Peter - I very much enjoyed the finer points of writing you brought out, thank you. I too always find the later illustrationS fascinating, as well as the originals by Hablot Knight Browne (Phiz). I'm glad you look at them closely too Chris and Shirley. I do agree, I too prefer Hablot Knight Browne's demure interpretation of the 17 year old Kate to the others artists'.


message 202: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 17, 2024 07:35AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Sue observed:

"They appear to all have titles while he has money. In Dickens’s time a man with money still wouldn’t be on equal footing with titled men, would he? I know that his brother was considered a gentleman but that isn’t the same is it?"

You're absolutely right; this is an important class distinction. All the men there are titled or aristocratic, but Ralph is a business man, grubbing about with shady deals. So they despise and look down on him. They also resent him, as he has power but no class. If Ralph had remained a gentleman, as he should have been by birth, he would not be involved in dodgy financial deals, but have a financial advisor/manager to see to all his affairs.

Kathleen - (re. the timing of the party) Either that, or Ralph has had a word with Mrs Mantalini, (whom he knows, as he recommended Kate and buys bills from Mr Mantalini) yes.

There's plenty more to follow up on, and apologies if I've neglected an important point, but the clock tells me that lots of people may be logging on to comment on the final chapter in this installment, so it's time to move on ...

Kelly - I hope you spotted my answer to your question about the opening of the chapter yesterday. Typically I try to deal with these before we move on.


message 203: by Sam (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sam | 445 comments I am still marveling at Charles Dickens structuring. We have had months of Kate, while major cliffhangers need to be resolved with Nicholas, like consequences over his tussle with Squeers, a confrontation with Ralph, continuing his resettlement in London, what to do with Smike, and now saving Sis is being added on. What is it three months since Nicholas? My math on these serial releases is poor and I've no time to check. Whatever the time, it is a long time to abandon a main character, and risk the potential loss of readers, but it also makes for a more interesting novel, IMO.

Again I want to draw a comparison between Kate and Nancy, with Kate as a potential Nancy of the future. Although in this period there is an idea that criminals and other of the supposed lowly are "born,", or personally responsible for such a life, there also is the idea of that environment contributes with a large help from individuals often responsible for the vulnerable one's security. Dicken's give us both ideas but I think he excels and is quite progressive in showing environmental factors. Here over three chapters, he shows us work factors and predators, then, the mother's role, then the authoritative uncle and his associates, all predators, all exploitative. Of these, I found the mother's complicity the most shocking. I had thought Dickens somewhat mollified her villainy by depicting her as a self-absorbed ninny, but Dickens is pretty heavy-handed her with the suit of clothes all laid out for Kate by the mother, a pretty damning image in my eyes. But Uncle Ralph is written even worse. There may be hope, but he is quickly getting to the point where I doubt Dickens can redeem him successfully anf with the last chapter, he may already have reached that place.

Coming back to my earlier though on contributions to a person's moral failure, I feel the above could easily have been the case with Nancy's slide into her situation in Oliver Twist. I wonder if Dickens meant his readers to see a connection? BTW, I loved the buildup over these last three chapters.


message 204: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 17, 2024 05:48PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Sam - Just squeezing in an answer here ... we are 6 months into Nicholas Nickleby now, as the chapter we're about to discuss is the final one in installment 6.
Your thoughts on Mrs Nickleby are most interesting.

Sometimes she seems quite clear-headed, and "not so green as she is cabbage-looking" (is that an expression you have in the USA?) We wonder if some of the rambling manner is assumed. Peter J. Casagrande believes this to be the case, in Harold Bloom's book of essays on Charles Dickens. We can definitely return to this idea later.


message 205: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 17, 2024 08:53AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Chapter 20: Wherein Nicholas at length encounters his Uncle, to whom he expresses his Sentiments with much Candour. His Resolution.

Miss La Creevy is on her way to Mrs. Mantalini’s establishment, to tell her that Kate is ill, and trying to work out the most elegant way of putting this. She has noticed that Kate’s eyes have been red, as if she had been crying, and is also wondering what has caused this. Miss La Creevy suspects that Ralph Nickleby might be the reason:

“Cross to her, I suppose? Unpleasant brute!”

Since Mrs. Mantalini is still in bed, Miss La Creevy gives the message to Miss Knag. The forewoman says she wouldn’t care if Kate stayed away for good. Miss La Creevy is highly offended at this, and reminds Miss Knag that she isn’t the owner, so her feelings are not important. The two women continue to spar, and are:

“marvellously polite—certain indications that they were within an inch of a very desperate quarrel.”

Miss La Creevy is pleased with the outcome, and the narrator muses on how in a city as large as London, it is possible for people to remain isolated. Because Miss La Creevy’s circumstances do not allow her to mix with those whom she would choose to, she has kept herself to herself and done no harm:

“Until the peculiar misfortunes of the Nickleby family attracted her attention, [she] had made no friends, though brimful of the friendliest feelings to all mankind.”

Sitting at home later than usual with her breakfast tea, she is delighted by a surprise visit from Nicholas. She boldly engages in banter with him, as before, but the stops herself, adding worriedly:

“you seem thinner than when I saw you last, and your face is haggard and pale. And how come you to have left Yorkshire?”

Nicholas tells her that he has been very poor, and even suffered from want. However he quickly moves on to say that he wishes to confront his uncle, who has tricked him. He tried to see him earlier, Nicholas says, but Ralph had already gone out. The two exchange opinions about Ralph Nickleby and find they are in agreement. Nicholas says that he knows his uncle plans to tell his mother and Kate about the allegations against him, giving his own version of the events in Yorkshire. Would Miss La Creevy be willing to let them know of his impending visit, so that his arrival a quarter of an hour later will not be such a shock? Miss La Creevy readily agrees, and makes preparations to do so, putting away the tea-caddy and hiding the key under the fender.

When Miss La Creevy arrives, though, she finds that Ralph Nickleby is already there and, full of accusations, has delivered the news about Nicholas to his family:

“behaving himself properly, he might have remained, in comfort, for years. What is the result? Conduct for which he might hold up his hand at the Old Bailey.”

Mrs. Nickleby and Kate are both in tears, although Kate does not believe the allegations. Her mother is so upset by them that that it appears as if she does. Ralph Nickleby says it is his duty to deliver Nicholas to justice, but he will not, in respect to Kate’s feelings. Kate realises this is a form of blackmail. As long as she doesn’t speak of the incident at his house, he will not turn Nicholas over to the police. She looks at her uncle, but he will not meet her eyes.

Ralph talks of the letter again, ending:

“’Assault, riot, theft, what do you call these?’
‘A lie!’ cried a voice, as the door was dashed open, and Nicholas came into the room.“




“Ralph’s antipathy towards Nicholas” - Hablot K. Browne -
September 1839


Ralph is taken off guard, and:

“Kate and Miss La Creevy threw themselves between the two, to prevent the personal violence which the fierce excitement of Nicholas appeared to threaten.”

Nicholas denounces Fanny Squeers’ letter as a lie, and accuses Ralph of purposely sending him to a place where children are mistreated. Mrs Nickleby still seems half inclined to believe it, but Nicholas says that her ears have been poisoned by his uncle Ralph, saying:

“I interfered … to save a miserable creature from the vilest cruelty. In so doing, I inflicted such punishment upon a wretch as he will not readily forget, though far less than he deserved from me. If the same scene were renewed before me now, I would take the same part; but I would strike harder and heavier, and brand him with such marks as he should carry to his grave, go to it when he would.”

Ralph Nickleby takes this as an admission of guilt, and Kate begs Nicholas to be calm, and says he is further accused, of stealing a ring.

Nicholas says he had worked out that Mrs. Squeers must have dropped a worthless ring into his clothes when she was struggling with one of the unhappy boys. He returned it by coach, as soon as he discovered it. The boy he rescued “a silly, helpless creature, from brutality and hard usage” is still with him. As Ralph sneers at him, Nicholas says he has no intention of letting the boy be taken back to that place.

Ralph turns to Mrs Nickleby, cannily commenting that she knows the world. She tearfully agrees, wishing that she didn’t, at which the narrator comments:

“There really was no necessity for the good lady to be much distressed [about] this; the extent of her worldly knowledge being, to say the least, very questionable”

of which Ralph was clearly aware. He reminds them all that he had made no promises. He never held much hope for Nicholas, he says, but he gave him an opportunity. He will not help Nicholas further, nor will he help those that assist him:

“as I will not ask you to renounce him, I see you no more.”

Even though Ralph’s behaviour is unjust, it cuts the young Nicholas to the quick, and when Ralph sees this:

“he hugged himself to mark how well he had chosen the taunts best calculated to strike deep into a young and ardent spirit.”

Mrs. Nickleby says she know how much Ralph has done for them, but says she can’t renounce her son—even if he is guilty:

“we must go to rack and ruin, Kate, my dear. I can bear it, I dare say.”

Kate is incensed that her mother seem to believe Nicholas has behaved as her uncle says, but Mrs Nickleby points out that:

“‘Nicholas is so violent, and your uncle has so much composure, that I can only hear what he says, and not what Nicholas does.”



“Nicholas Defends His Sister’s Virtue” - Charles Stanley Reinhart - 1875

Nicholas tells his uncle that he will leave, and that he never intended to stay, despite Kate begging him not to go. He says that he cannot help or protect them, but when he leaves, they will be protected. He tells Ralph quietly that he leaves his mother and sister in his care, but that if his uncle wrongs them, he will pay for it dearly. Ralph does not show any signs that he has heard Nicholas’s promise.

As he goes through the streets, Nicholas worries whether he has done the right thing in leaving his family. However he decides it is for the best, since “his mother had spoken of some new kindnesses towards Kate”. His thoughts veer to and fro, especially since he knows he has not deserved this treatment.

When he gets home, he throws himself on his bed, turns his face to the wall and weeps. Smike enters quietly, and pretends to be busy making a scratch meal. When Nicholas dues his best to speak brightly, Smile tells him that he had tried to leave him, because:

“you grow thinner every day; your cheek is paler, and your eye more sunk. Indeed I cannot bear to see you so, and think how I am burdening you”

Smike knows that Nicholas cannot afford to keep them both. However, he found that he could not leave without saying anything. Smike stops, too choked up to say any more. But Nicholas tells Smike that he is his only friend:

“The thought of you has upheld me through all I have endured today, and shall, through fifty times such trouble.”

They will both leave, before the week is out, he assures Smike. Nicholas tries to impress upon his friend that it does not matter how poor they are; they can help each other.


message 206: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 17, 2024 08:54AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
This is the end of installment 6. Installment 7 begins with chapter 21 on Saturday


message 207: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 17, 2024 09:47AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
And a little more …

Tea and Tea Caddies

I was delighted to read that Miss La Creevy locked her tea caddy. It told me so much about her 😊

(A spoiler tag is used just to save space, for those not interested in the peculiar social history of English tea-drinking rituals) (view spoiler)

And locking tea caddies are confined to history - or to collectors of beautiful antiques.

Miss La Creevy, perhaps as might be expected in a spinster at this time, is slightly old-fashioned. Perhaps she came from a family with several servants who might pilfer the tea. At any rate, she still locks hers away carefully, and puts the key under the fender.

(A fire fender is a type of low guard around an open fire, usually made of iron. It keeps coal, ashes and dust safely contained, while also providing a border between the hearth and the rest of the room.)


message 208: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 17, 2024 09:02AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
And yet more …

In Mrs Nickleby’s ramblings she refers to:

“the Refuge for the Destitute, or the Magdalen Hospital”

People at this time had a fear of being sent to the the workhouse. As we saw in Oliver Twist, the new regulations taking the control away from local authorities resulted in widespread corruption and a far less humane method of help. Mrs Nickleby had additional fears:

The Refuge for the Destitute was founded in 1805, and was a charitable institution intended to provide help for ex-prisoners and the unemployed. Not a place where Mrs Nickleby, who used to own all those silver teaspoons and amethyst jewellery would ever expect to find herself.

The Magdalen Hospital was founded in 1758 and was a refuge for penitent prostitutes on the Blackfriars Road. No comment by me is needed!


message 209: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 17, 2024 09:01AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
In fact I’ll pass this over straightaway for comments now. There have been lots of exciting developments in this installment, so do please share your thoughts and reactions. And if you are one of our silent participants, we’d especially love to hear from you! We have a day now to catch up if needed, and move to the next installment with chapter 21 on Saturday.


message 210: by Paul (new) - rated it 5 stars

Paul Weiss | 367 comments Sam wrote: "But Uncle Ralph is written even worse. There may be hope, but he is quickly getting to the point where I doubt Dickens can redeem him successfully"

Indeed! Ralph was within a hair's breadth of pimping Kate out explicitly to Lord Verisopht. In fact, he acknowledged as much to Mulberry Hawk and attempted to mitigate his dastardly behaviour by suggesting that Verisopht would treat Kate in a gentlemanly fashion.


message 211: by Lee (last edited Oct 17, 2024 11:13AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (leex1f98a) | 504 comments Paul wrote: “May I—may I go with you?’ asked Smike, timidly. ‘I will be your faithful hard-working servant, I will, indeed.”
Re: Ch 13 "Consequences of Some Importance", Message 48.

I find myself a week behind, following the death of a beloved pet collie. So I apologize for dropping back to remark about the conclusion of Ch 13, certainly my favorite in the book up until now.

Nicholas has discovered to his surprise that Smike has been following him during his exodus from the harsh schoolmaster Squeers. Here I find a Biblical allusion which is one of the most tender in the Old Testament.

Dickens: "'Why do you kneel to me?' said Nicholas, hastily raising him.
'To go with you --anywhere -- everywhere -- to the world's end. . . to the churchyard grave' replied Smike . . . "You are my home -- my kind friend -- take me with you, pray. . . May I -- may I go with you?' asked Smike, timidly. 'I will be your faithful hard-working servant, I will, indeed. . . I only want to be near you.'

'And you shall', cried Nicholas. 'And the world shall deal by you as it does by me, till one or both of us shall quit it for a better. Come!' . . .

And they passed out of the old barn together."


And now for the Biblical parallel, as a spoiler to save space. (view spoiler)


Claudia | 935 comments Lee wrote: "Paul wrote: “May I—may I go with you?’ asked Smike, timidly. ‘I will be your faithful hard-working servant, I will, indeed.”
Re: Ch 13 "Consequences of Some Importance", Message 48.

I find myself..."


I am really sorry for your doggy Lee!

Great biblical verses indeed, which stick very well to the text and the situation!


message 213: by Peter (new) - rated it 4 stars

Peter | 248 comments ‘he had chosen the taunts best calculated’

If we needed (and I doubt we did) 😊 any further reason to dislike Ralph Nickleby above is the phrase that should put any doubts to his integrity to rest. Ralph is a man who has little regard for people and obviously no respect for his own family. This sets up intriguing possibilities for the plot. Would he prostitute his niece for his own financial gain? What is he willing to let occur to his brother’s wife and her children? For Kate, we have the answer; in this chapter we see who he is willing to believe is a thief on the word of Squeers.

What we may miss in this chapter is Nicholas’s character development. Nicholas’s first act when he gets some money is to pay John Browdie what he is owed. We see how strong the bond is between Nicholas and Smike. We witness how Nicholas is willing to stand up for his family. Yes, Nicholas is a touch impetuous, perhaps too quick to anger, and act before he thinks on occasion, but whatever the flaws of Nicholas, when he is measured against Hawk, Squeers, and his uncle, we find that the character profile of Nicholas is that of a gentleman, albeit the definition of a 19C gentleman and an example of one is still lacking in the novel. Hmmm, where could Dickens be leading us?


message 214: by Kelly (last edited Oct 17, 2024 01:04PM) (new) - added it

Kelly (sunny_reader_girl) | 88 comments Lee, I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your dog. What was his/her name? That is one of the hardest things.

Thank you for sharing the parallel between Nicholas/Smike and Ruth/Naomi. I think of Smike with fondness because of his gratitude and loyalty to Nicholas and of Nicholas because of his kindness and acceptance of Smike. Thinking of them now in the context of that analogy makes it all the better.


message 215: by Kelly (last edited Oct 17, 2024 01:05PM) (new) - added it

Kelly (sunny_reader_girl) | 88 comments Jean, yes! My question had been answered. Thank you very much! I should have responded directly to you about that.

Ah, we finally see the confrontation between Nicholas and his uncle. The drama of Nicholas bursting through the door and exclaiming, "A lie!" I can just see it on the stage or screen (which I have not... yet!)

I've been enjoying every instance of Miss La Creevy on the scene, so her interaction first with Miss Knag (and what a passive aggressive and saracastic one it was!) and then Nicholas was great.

It was funny when she told Nicholas that just sitting in the same room as Ralph's boots would put her "out of humour for a fortnight."

Mrs Nickleby's reaction to the possiblity of having to go to the workhouse (or Magadalen Hospital, which made me think of the Downton Abbey episode when Isobel Crawley works in a center for reformed prostitutes...) and Nicholas's reaction to his possible poverty rang quite different to me. Mrs Nickleby's was more in hysterics with a touch of sarcasm(?) and Nicholas's was more of a genuine brave face.

Lastly for me, this: "We shall not forget each other apart, and better days will come when we shall part no more." What a good brother.


Janelle | 0 comments Jean, thank you for the info on locking tea caddies, that’s something I’d never come across before!


message 217: by Paul (new) - rated it 5 stars

Paul Weiss | 367 comments Kelly wrote: "I've been enjoying every instance of Miss La Creevy on the scene, so her interaction first with Miss Knag (and what a passive aggressive and saracastic one it was!)"

As I read Miss La Creevy's departing words to Miss Knag, I could just picture the tightness in her clenched jaw as she struggled to maintain her composure:

"Good morning to you, ma'am; and many obligations for your extreme politeness and good breeding"

You could just picture her mentally telling herself to stay calm and not poke a finger in Miss Knag's sanctimonious, self-serving eye, LOL!


message 218: by Claudia (last edited Oct 17, 2024 11:27PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Claudia | 935 comments Smike is indeed more loyal to Nicholas than his own mother!

Thank you Jean for the thorough information about tea and tea caddies. I have kept a tin box from the time back in Germany when I ordered tea from Paul Schrader, Bremen. Apart from their Ostfriesische Teemischungen (East Frisian tea mix with Assam blends), they had a very English range of blends called Mincing Lane and explained in their catalogue all you need to know about this street once at the heart of the commerce of tea with the East India Company. They also wrote all about tea caddies but your explanations, Jean revived this dormant knowledge!


message 219: by Peter (new) - rated it 4 stars

Peter | 248 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "And a little more …

Tea and Tea Caddies

I was delighted to read that Miss La Creevy locked her tea caddy. It told me so much about her 😊

(A spoiler tag is used just to save space, for those not ..."


These are fine examples of what we as 21C readers would miss. For the original readers of the novel, however, each of these objects, places and references would be easily decoded. For us, each time we come closer to the fullness of the original text the better our reading experience and adventure becomes. Thanks Jean.


Kathleen | 498 comments Jean, I wonder if you know that your insights not only enhance this read for us, but we taken them with us to future reading forever! Loved the tea details--thank you.

Lee, I am so sad to hear about your beloved collie. I hope Dickens reading provides some comfort.

Miss La Creevy is such an enjoyable character. I got a kick out of her reaction when Nicholas told her he wanted to see his uncle face to face:
"sitting in the same room with his very boots, would put me out of humour for a fortnight."
Kathleen C.


message 221: by Lee (last edited Oct 18, 2024 05:34PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (leex1f98a) | 504 comments Katy wrote:/ Message 128 (Ch 16, Installment 5) "I have also encountered the "making the boss look good" mentality."
AND "I have to say I do not have any idea where this novel is going, except I do have an idea about Uncle Ralph."

I am playing "catch-up" these days, and in my Penguin Classic edition I am on page 195 at this point in the novel. I totally agree with Katy in that, except for the humorous passages throughout, and the dawning acquaintance with Nicholas Nickleby himself, I barely see the thread of a plot of any kind! (view spoiler)


message 222: by Lee (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (leex1f98a) | 504 comments MESSAGE 131: Sam wrote: "Earlier I was commenting on chapter 14 and 15 and how much I liked those two chapters [AND] ... I think the consensus view is that this inconsistency in style is a flaw, but I am fascinated with why he chose to write that way. Is it in imitation of other writers? Or is he just trying to flex his writing muscles and showing off a little that he can write in these various styles? Or is he trying to accomplish something else which he feels he can best accomplish by continuously changing the narrative style?"

Fascinating thoughts, Sam!


message 223: by Lee (last edited Oct 18, 2024 05:30PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (leex1f98a) | 504 comments From several days back, Message 135 Bionic Jean wrote: "Jim - what a fabulous word "blatherskites" is! ." And then Jean instructs us: "Therefore Charles Dickens needed a way to both campaign and entertain. What we end up with is all kinds of writing: melodrama, political satire, class comedy, social criticism and domestic farce. Nicholas Nickleby has a loose narrative almost throughout (as Katy says, we "(I) do not have any idea where this novel is going") - and we've also discussed the reasons for that. As she says, neither did Charles Dickens!

Superb points, Jean! (view spoiler)


message 224: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Lee, I like your Biblical parallel which had not occurred to me, thank you.

Regarding the style of this novel, I'll just add one more thing which might help. The large involved 19th century novels covering a breadth of topics in an integrated fashion were not established yet, so we must not hope for an analytical probing of the motivations and inner conflicts of the characters. But we can discuss it later by all means.

Like others I do hope reading with us helps a little, during this sad time. I send many condolences about your lovely doggie.


message 225: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 19, 2024 06:03AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Peter - "Nicholas’s character development ... Nicholas’s first act when he gets some money is to pay John Browdie what he is owed."

We are seeing more instances of Nicholas's worth, as you say. He is a true gentleman, even if at times he does seem to be over-conscious of this ... He seems to have an acute sense of his own worth, but then he is still young 😊

I'm enjoying Nicholas's stagey rhetoric too, Kelly; the way he bursts in on the scene and declaims! But he is such an active, upright hero, who I'm sure Charles Dickens modelled on his own self-image, and we know we can rely on him to take thrilling decisive action, as we saw that with Squeers 😁👏

I like your apt insight here "Mrs Nickleby's was more in hysterics with a touch of sarcasm(?)"


message 226: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 19, 2024 06:08AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
I'm so glad you all enjoyed about the tea and lockable tea caddies! And Kathleen C - thank you so much. This put a big smile on my face, and I think we all take a lot away from reading together 😊

(There will be a slight pause as I have my covid jab, but I should be back with ch 21 in a couple of hours, if comments on that chapter can be after that as usual, please.)


message 227: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 19, 2024 08:12AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Installment 7

Chapter 21: Madame Mantalini finds herself in a Situation of some Difficulty, and Miss Nickleby finds herself in no Situation at all


Kate is ill for three days and is unable to work. Miss Knag is just as rude when Kate returns, and the other young women take their lead from the forewoman and do not speak to her.

Miss Knag is about to give vent to more of her opinions about the wickedness of the world, when Madame Mantalini uses the speaking tube to call Kate upstairs to arrange the show room:

“a distinction which caused Miss Knag to toss her head so much, and bite her lips so hard, that her powers of conversation were, for the time, annihilated.”

Madame Mantalini asks Kate if she is better, and then admits to Kate that she is worried, but she doesn’t reveal the reason why.

Mr. Mantalini enters, spouting his habitual romantic nonsense, trying to talk his wife round, as she is put out of temper by his extravagance:

“‘Why will it vex itself, and twist its little face into bewitching nutcrackers?’ said Mantalini, putting his left arm round the waist of his life and soul, and drawing her towards him with his right.”

Madame Mantalini blames him for the situation they are in, but her husband will have none of it. He tells her that they will get the money; they can always borrow it from Ralph Nickleby. Mrs. Mantalini indicates that Kate is within hearing, whereupon they start whispering. Madame Mantalini reminds him of prior debts that she has paid on his behalf, and goes on to mention his:

“gaming, wasting, idling, and a tendency to horse-flesh; each of which matters of accusation Mr. Mantalini disposed of, by one kiss or more, as its relative importance demanded.”

Madame Mantalini is won over and cannot stay angry with him. They go upstairs to breakfast. Meanwhile, Kate attempts to busy herself with the work, and becomes aware that a man in:

“a white hat, and a red neckerchief, and a broad round face, and a large head, and part of a green coat were in the room too … closely followed by a little man in brown, very much the worse for wear, who brought with him a mingled fumigation of stale tobacco and fresh onions.”

Kate’s first thought is that they are thieves who have walked in from the street, but the first one closes the door, and checks with her that he has got the right place: the “mantie-making consarn … This is a unpleasant bisness. Vere’s your govvernor? … Mister Muntlehiney.”

He says that Mr. Mantalini can spare himself a lot of trouble if he will talk to him, giving Kate his card, with the name “Scaley” on it.



“”You can give him that ’ere card, and tell him if he wants to speak to me, and save trouble, here I am; that’s all” - Fred Barnard - 1875

Kate rings the bell which summons Madame Mantalini, and while they are waiting the two men confidently check out both the premises and the goods.

Madame Mantalini is surprised to see them, but once they have confirmed that she is “the missus”, hand her a writ of execution, and say that if the account is not paid right then, they have the right to take an inventory of her things. She is grief-stricken and faints away into a chair. The men are unperturbed and don’t bother to assist her.

Mr Mantalini rushes in, but in contrast to his wife he is not surprised at all, seeming to recognise what is happening. He:

“merely shrugged his shoulders, thrust his hands down to the bottom of his pockets, elevated his eyebrows, whistled a bar or two, swore an oath or two, and, sitting astride upon a chair, put the best face upon the matter with great composure and decency.”



“The Professional Gentlemen at Madame Mantalini’s” - Hablot K. Browne (Phiz) - October 1838

Mr Mantalini asks how much he owes, and when the bailiff realises that they will not be paid, say he must tell his wife that they will not be able to sleep at home for three nights, because the bailiffs are in possession of the property. But then he kindly adds not to worry, as “A good half of wot’s here isn’t paid for, I des-say, and wot a consolation oughtn’t that to be to her feelings!”

Mrs. Mantalini sobs, and tells her husband that he has ruined her. Seeing that his penitent air has no effect, Mr Mantalini rushes out. His wife urges Kate to go after her husband, fearing that he will harm himself. When they find him, he is sharpening a breakfast knife, claiming that he is going to use it to cut his throat.



“Mantalini’s Melodramatic Gesture” - Fred Barnard - 1875

Mrs. Mantalini flings her ams around her husband and tells him she didn’t mean it:

“At this crisis of his ravings Mr. Mantalini made a pluck at the breakfast knife, and being restrained by his wife’s grasp, attempted to dash his head against the wall—taking very good care to be at least six feet from it.”



“Mantalini’s Melodramatic Gesture — Suicide by Breakfast Knife” - Charles Stanley Reinhart - 1875

However Madame Mantalini says she shares the blame for their misfortunes, and finally calms him down. After a couple of hours the milliner’s assistants are sent away, and two days later the Mantalinis are announced as bankrupts. Miss Knag takes over the business, but Kate is dismissed by letter.

Mrs. Nickleby acts as if she knew this would happen, and chides Kate for her poor career choice. She tells Kate she should consider becoming the companion of an elderly lady. Kate know her mother will have a few stories to tell, and waits patiently to hear what is in her mother’s mind. Eventually Mrs Nickleby says that she has seen an advertisement in the paper, and suggests asking her uncle Ralph if it is suitable. Ralph Nickleby approves (which the narrator tells us is not surprising, since it was he who had been responsible for the Mantalinis becoming bankrupt).

The narrator also tells us that Cadogan Place lies between “the aristocratic pavements of Belgrave Square, and the barbarism of Chelsea”, but that it is neither one thing nor the other. Residents of Cadogan Place look down on their neighbours. They know they are not of the highest order, but like to appear fashionable, and as if they are familiar with their neighbours of higher social rank, (although those neighbours would doubtless not care to know them).

Kate and her mother arrive at the house in Cadogan Place, and Kate knocks nervously at Mrs Wittiterly’s door. It is opened by a large footman, who seems to be wearing fake powder on his wig. He hands Kate’s card to a very small boy, who is a page. The room Kate and her mother are shown into is dirty and shabby.

In the drawing room they are introduced to Mrs. Wititterly, the lady who has advertised for a companion:

“The lady had an air of sweet insipidity, and a face of engaging paleness; there was a faded look about her, and about the furniture, and about the house. She was reclining on a sofa in such a very unstudied attitude, that she might have been taken for an actress.”

She asks the small boy to place the chairs, calling him “Alphonse”, although the narrator comments:

“if ever an Alphonse carried plain Bill in his face and figure, that page was the boy.”

Kate explains modestly why she is there. Mrs. Nickleby begins to prattle away but Kate looks so pointedly at her, that for once, Mrs Nickleby halts her narration.

Mrs. Wititterly (with her eyes shut) asks Kate what she can do, and whether she is good tempered. Kate answers the questions, and then produces her uncle’s card as a reference. Mrs Wititterly calls her closer to examine her, and Kate is embarrassed. However Mrs. Wititterly decides she likes Kate and summons her husband.

Mr. Wititterly arrives, saying:

“Mrs Wititterly is of a very excitable nature; very delicate, very fragile; a hothouse plant, an exotic.”

He says that the eminent doctor Sir Tumley Snuffim has described at length how his wife’s soul is too large for her body, and that that is why she is always fatigued.

“And for that very reason … you must have a companion, in whom there is great gentleness, great sweetness, excessive sympathy, and perfect repose.”

Mr Wititterly too asks Kate’s qualifications, and asks questions of his own. The couple decide that they will check her background, and write their decision via her uncle, within two days.

Once they have been shown out by the large footman, Mrs. Nickleby begins one of her flight of fancy. She assumes that Mrs. Wititterly is on her deathbed, and imagines that Kate will become the second Mrs. Wititterly.

The Wititterlys decide to hire Kate, who does not feel very enthusiastic about it. Nevertheless, after a week she moves with all her portable possessions to their mansion in Cadogan Place.


message 228: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 19, 2024 08:17AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
And a little more …

Powdered Wigs

“The door was opened by a big footman with his head floured, or chalked, or painted in some way (it didn’t look genuine powder).”

These were fashionable in the 18th century, but the use of hair powder came to an abrupt end in 1795, when Pitt’s government enacted a law, intended as a revenue-raising measure requiring anyone who used powder to purchase a license at one guinea (i.e. £1.1 shilling) a year.

Whig opposition, led by the Duke of Bedford held a meeting in which they sorrowfully agreed to renounce the use of powder and cut off their pigtails.

So when Charles Dickens says “it didn’t look genuine powder” he is making a point that although the Wititterlys want to appear fashionable their affectations are slightly behind the times, and also that they do not pay their servants enough for them to wear real powder in their hair.

A brown George is a colloquial term for an inelegant brown wig without powder, thought to resemble a loaf of coarse brown bread, and so called because George III wore one. (He was not a dandy and liked country pursuits such as farming.)

When we first met Ralph Nickleby, we were told that he also wears powder in his hair. Not only is this a code that he is old-fashioned but we can be certain, because of Ralph’s money-grubbing and devious practices, that he does not purchase a license for it.


message 229: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 19, 2024 08:31AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
And yet more …

The Unities

These are principles of dramatic composition, developed from Aristotle, who laid down his rules of a play; that it should consist of a single action, occurring at one time and in one place. (I wrote a post for one group read, but can’t find it now GR has changed the search facility.)

Silver Fork Novels

These novels about fashionable society were much in vogue at the time. We will come across this again in a future chapter.

The reference to Sterne is of course Laurence Sterne, who among other things wrote The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman, one of Charles Dickens’s favourite novels, and one which we had last year as a group read expertly led by Erich. The threads are well worth a look if you missed it!

A skipping rope hornpipe is a novelty dance, made famous by the clown Joey (Joseph) Grimaldi, whose memoirs The Memoirs of Grimaldi: The First Whiteface Clown Charles Dickens edited in 1838, immediately before he started Nicholas Nickleby, and while he was writing Oliver Twist.


message 230: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 19, 2024 08:32AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
My favourite quotation has to be about these pair of wannabes the Wititterleys, hiring their servants on the cheap:

“if ever an Alphonse carried plain Bill in his face and figure, that page was the boy.”

What a ghastly pair with all their airs, pretensions and pseudo-intellectuality! But it was another very funny episode, wasn’t it, although we are left wondering (as she is herself) whether Kate will be happy employed there.


message 231: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 19, 2024 08:32AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
And what will happen to the Mantalinis now! Someone (sorry I forget who) said they hoped Charles Dickens’s readers would not care for them so they would be written out will have their wish granted.

Fred Barnard must have really enjoyed this chapter. Did you notice that he has provided two illustrations for it, one scene of which Charles Stanley Reinhart also drew the same year for the American edition.

Over to you!


message 232: by Peter (new) - rated it 4 stars

Peter | 248 comments After reading Jean’s commentary for this chapter the word ‘pretence’ came into my mind. How I have failed to see this theme being developed in the novel for so long I have no idea.

The Wititterly family from the top of their poorly powered heads heads to the Squeers family with the less than prestigiously named Dotheboys Hall we have so many people struggling to maintain or present an impression of being more than they are.

The pretence continues with Mr and Mrs Mantalini. When Scaley arrives (what a great name) with the news the shop is deep in debt we see another group of people and their business is less than it appears.

If we look at Ralph Nickleby we see pretence from another viewpoint. True, Ralph makes no attempt to project a kind exterior but he is a man of means, a man with aristocratic contacts. Then, when we consider how the titled Hawk and Verisopht are certainly not what one would expect from the aristocratic class (albeit, when does Dickens treat the upper classes with too much courtesy?)

So, where so far can we find people who have little pretence and much greater humanity? I think Dickens has drawn a very clear line. So far, Newman Noggs, Miss LaCreevy, Kate, Nicholas, John Browdie, and, of course, Smike.

The novel is rounding itself out very clearly.


Claudia | 935 comments Peter wrote: "After reading Jean’s commentary for this chapter the word ‘pretence’ came into my mind. How I have failed to see this theme being developed in the novel for so long I have no idea.

The Wititterly ..."

You summed it up efficiently with that only word. The Wittiterlys are another instance of people pretending to be what they are not, down to their Alphonse who would perhaps prefer to be called his real name.
As in some other great Dickens novels, genuinely decent and reliable protagonists are appearing non descript, not much listened to, even sometimes borderline...


message 234: by Sue (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sue | 1165 comments Jean, I loved the same line that you noted above.

One thought I’ve had after this chapter is that it seems that Ralph Nickleby has actually set up his niece and nephew to fail or, at the very least, to be swallowed up by immoral or failing businesses. He treats them no better than strangers on the street. And he is a man of business so he knows the background of each of these concerns, probably holds their loans!


Shirley (stampartiste) | 487 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "And what will happen to the Mantalinis now! Someone (sorry I forget who) said they hoped Charles Dickens’s readers would not care for them so they would be written out will have their wish granted." That was me, regarding the Demd Mantalini. He really went over the top in this chapter, so I really hope we've seen the last of him!

However, I did have to laugh at the title of Reinhart's illustration: "Suicide by Breakfast Knife". That was too funny!

I am getting such an education with your summaries "and yet more", Jean! Thank you so much. That was so very interesting on how taxation killed off men wearing white wigs! Now I'm wondering about how we still see white wigs in the British justice system. And the brown George wig (looking like a loaf of bread) was too funny. Interesting tidbit about our hated monarch here in the States, old King George III. LOL

Those Wititterlys! What a pair! It does strike me that Dickens has now introduced us to four pandering husbands (Squeers, Mantalini, Kenwig and Wititterly). I'm sure this was highly unusual for the day. I wonder why he made these men so subservient to their wives.

I know that Dickens kept a list of names he thought he might use in his novels. Now I'm wondering if he also had characters on stand by! Mr. Tix (ticks)! What a name for someone in his bloodthirsty line of work!

The Wititterlys seem harmless enough, but I noticed that no mention was made of Kate's salary or her specific duties. I hope they don't press her into maid service as well as underpay her.


message 236: by Paul (new) - rated it 5 stars

Paul Weiss | 367 comments Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "It does strike me that Dickens has now introduced us to four pandering husbands (Squeers, Mantalini, Kenwig and Wititterly). "

It seemed to me that, with or without the explicit knowledge and approval of their wives, Mantalini and Wititterly were living off the avails of their wives' business income or pre-existing wealth. Not to put too fine a point on it but I definitely got the impression that in a more modern parlance, they would have been characterized as gigolos.

In fact, (and I'm not sure of the exact reason that I got this impression), I felt that there was a significant age gap in the case of the Wititterleys. Did anyone else feel that was the case?


message 237: by Paul (new) - rated it 5 stars

Paul Weiss | 367 comments One more instance, (for me, at least) of a Dickensian name that definitely struck my funny bone hard!

I could picture the Monty Python crew making hilarious hay out of the name that Dickens assigned to Mrs Wititterley's doctor.

Bring out your dead, bring out your dead!
I'm not dead yet!
Don't worry about that ... I'll snuff 'im!



message 238: by Sue (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sue | 1165 comments Oh Dickens’ names! How is it possible to take seriously a character whose last name has “titter” in the middle of it. We’re being invited to laugh, well laugh politely, at them as they say their name.

And yes these men do lay it on rather thick don’t they. I can’t imagine their wives enjoying, let alone tolerating all of that but then I would not have lasted long in one Dickens’s novels as either heroine or other. My modern mindset would condemn me.


message 239: by Sue (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sue | 1165 comments Paul, I can imagine Monty Python in any part of this novel. Right now I’m imagining a Dotheboys Hall led by Squeers having an insurrection led by the Monty Python crew. I wonder which one of the group Fanny would fall for?


message 240: by Paul (new) - rated it 5 stars

Paul Weiss | 367 comments Sue wrote: "Paul, I can imagine Monty Python in any part of this novel. Right now I’m imagining a Dotheboys Hall led by Squeers having an insurrection led by the Monty Python crew. I wonder which one of the gr..."

LOL, heard from Squeers after his fight with Nicholas: "It's only a flesh wound"!


Shirley (stampartiste) | 487 comments Paul~
I also wondered at the age difference between the Wititterlys. Supposedly, Kate was going to sit with an elderly woman. Dickens said that Mr. Wititterly was 38 years old, but he failed to mention Mrs. Wititterly's age. She certainly did act much older.
I loved your references to Monty Python! And yes! "It's only a flesh wound!" My favorite quote, besides the whole Dead Parrot skit! Was the first quote you gave from a skit or a movie? I don't remember it. But I did wonder if the expression snuff 'im (Dr. Snuffim) meant the same thing in Dickens' day.

And Sue~
I agree with your "these men do lay it on rather thick don’t they. I can’t imagine their wives enjoying, let alone tolerating all of that". That definitely would have made me feel that I must have been a fool for having married them in the first place. LOL


message 242: by Paul (new) - rated it 5 stars

Paul Weiss | 367 comments Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "Was the first quote you gave from a skit or a movie? I don't remember it. But I did wonder if the expression snuff 'im (Dr. Snuffim) meant the same thing in Dickens' day."

The "Bring out your dead"line was from THE HOLY GRAIL. As to the "snuff 'im" part, I just made that up but, as you pointed out, I have NO idea if "snuff" was used in that colloquial way in Dickens' time. My hope is that it was so that the doctor's name was more than just a humorous coincidence.


message 243: by Lee (last edited Oct 19, 2024 04:44PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (leex1f98a) | 504 comments Ch 18, Message 160 Bionic Jean wrote: “. . . my favourite quotation . . .

Miss Knag comments on the poor part of London where Kate is living. She says, "These sort of people . . . are glad to sleep anywhere!" She is heartless & despising of lower social classes.

This quote is directly relevant to the point Charles Dickens was making in the first paragraph of the chapter. "There are many lives of much pain, hardship, and suffering, which, having no stirring interest for any but those who lead them, are disregarded ."

This leads to an epigram by Charles Dickenswhich is quoted in the literary world quite often (too often): "Heaven suits the back to the burden."

Here the social critic Dickens slams the upper classes of England, who considered the socially disadvantaged as somehow deserving their hardships. It is also a criticism of the religious groups in the Victorian era who preached that the poor must deserve their sufferings as they were lazy and 'good for nothing'. The pithy epigram suggests perhaps a common theme among privileged social classes, which Dickens famously criticizes and shames in his novels AS WELL AS IN his public fund raising for various contemporary charities.

The despised "theme" is self-righteousness, pride and lack of compassion for the poor and helpless. Dickens coins this painful maxim which should have sent shivers down the backs of his Christian readers . I think Dickens was making a pointed contrast with the selfish Miss Knag and the New Testament. His readers should have been provoked to remember the entreaties of Christ:

"Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and You will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matthew 11:28-30 (NRSV).


message 244: by Jim (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jim Puskas (wyenotgo) | 194 comments As Paul aptly points out (re Dr. Snuffim) I suspect that Python & Co. were quite familiar with the wickedly apt names that Dickens invented and sought to emulate his wit. In those two scenes, featuring the Mantalinis' financial downfall and the Wititterleys' pretentiousness, Dickens once again renders enjoyable for the reader what are in fact regrettable matters by clothing the whole thing in utter farce.
"That parrot is dead!"


message 245: by Sue (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sue | 1165 comments Lee, there remains an element of many societies that looks down on the "socially and/or economically inferior" today. There seems to be a need among some humans to be superior and Dickens portrays these many varieties so well.


message 246: by Peter (new) - rated it 4 stars

Peter | 248 comments Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "Bionic Jean wrote: "And what will happen to the Mantalinis now! Someone (sorry I forget who) said they hoped Charles Dickens’s readers would not care for them so they would be written out will have..."

Yes indeed. We are certainly getting quite the parade of pandering husbands.


message 247: by Peter (new) - rated it 4 stars

Peter | 248 comments Lee wrote: "Ch 18, Message 160 Bionic Jean wrote: “. . . my favourite quotation . . .

Miss Knag comments on the poor part of London where Kate is living. She says, "These sort of people . . . are glad to sle..."


Lee

Very interesting and thought provoking insights. Thank you.


message 248: by Kathleen (last edited Oct 20, 2024 06:20AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kathleen | 498 comments Paul and Sue, you've added a whole other dimension to this read for me: imagining the scenes as Monty Python sketches. I will be enjoying that! And Jim, I bet you are right that the Python crew were very familiar with Dickens and his humor--great point.


message 249: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Peter wrote: "After reading Jean’s commentary for this chapter the word ‘pretence’ came into my mind. How I have failed to see this theme being developed in the novel for so long I have no idea..."

Thank you so much for this excellent comment Peter! It makes me marvel at Charles Dickens' perfect control to make us consider this right now, on the cusp of a chapter which introduces ... well everyone will see who!

I'd love to pick up more comments, as there are so many good points made by everyone, but feel we must move on.


message 250: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Oct 20, 2024 06:47AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8411 comments Mod
Chapter 22: Nicholas, accompanied by Smike, sallies forth to seek his Fortune. He encounters Mr. Vincent Crummles; and who he was, is herein made manifest

Once Nicholas has paid his rent and settled with the man from whom he had rented furniture, he only has about a pound in cash. Yet he is young, and feels optimistic about leaving London.

“It was a cold, dry, foggy morning in early spring. A few meagre shadows flitted to and fro in the misty streets”

as Nicholas walks across London to the house in the East End, where Kate and his mother are staying. He stands outside his mother’s house, taking comfort that Kate feels the same way that he does, whenever she sees insults or dishonour. He almost wishes she would come out and say goodbye, but then realises it is better to leave things as they are.

Smike and Noggs are anxiously waiting for him, back at their lodgings. Smike carries their luggage and Noggs insists on walking with them as far as he can, and at least overnight. They go to Kingston, but when asked, Nicholas admits to Noggs that he has no set destination in mind, and promises to write.

“‘You won’t forget?’ said Newman.
‘I am not very likely to,’ rejoined Nicholas. ‘I have not so many friends that I shall grow confused among the number, and forget my best one.’“


Nicholas eventually persuades Newman Noggs to walk no further with them.



“Noggs bids Nicholas Nickleby and his odd companion farewell” - Charles Stanley Reinhart - 1875

When Noggs is a speck in the distance, Nicholas tells Smike that they are heading for the town of Portsmouth. They can both find surely find work on one of the boats, he says, since they are both prepared to work hard.

Smike talks of looking after the animals at … “you know where I mean?” and is crestfallen to learn that there would be few farm animal on board ships. But he brightens as he looks forward to showing himself to be willing. When Nicholas wants to carry their bundle, Smike refuses to relinquish it, insisting that he wants to be as much help as he can to Nicholas.

Nicholas has something on his mind, and asks Smike if he has a good memory. Smike says sorrowfully that he thinks he used to have, but it has all gone. Nicholas questions him about what he remembers before the Yorkshire school. Smike seems to be able to recall some things. He doesn’t remember his mother, but he remembers his old room, a large lonely room at the top of a house, with a trap-door in the ceiling. It frightened him, and he used to cover his head and wonder what was on the other side.

“There was a clock too, an old clock, in one corner. I remember that. I have never forgotten that room; for when I have terrible dreams, it comes back, just as it was.”

Smike also remembers the man who took him to Yorkshire:

“A man—a dark, withered man. I have heard them say so, at the school, and I remembered that before. I was glad to leave him, I was afraid of him; but they made me more afraid of them, and used me harder too.”

He knows it was raining, because he always wept when it rained hard, and the others would laugh at him.

Nicholas is thoughtful and remembers Smike’s words.

“It was, by this time, within an hour of noon, and although a dense vapour still enveloped the city they had left, as if the very breath of its busy people hung over their schemes of gain and profit, and found greater attraction there than in the quiet region above.”

They enjoy walking in the beautiful countryside: “exhilarated by exercise, and stimulated by hope, they pushed onward with the strength of lions.”

They break the journey at Godalming where they find two humble beds, starting off again the next day with good heart. The landscape becomes hilly, which makes the journey more tiring, but they persevere. When they reach the Devil’s Punch Bowl, Nicholas tells Smike the gruesome story of how the murdered man’s blood ran down into the hollow which gives the place its name.

On and on they go, through various terrains, “but the way had been difficult, and they had loitered on the road, and Smike was tired”. They are only 12 miles from their destination now, and yet sometimes it seems so far off.

They stop at an inn, where the innkeeper is keen for them to stay, saying that the road to Portsmouth is hard. A glance at Smike’s weary face convinces Nicholas that they need to rest. He talks to the landlord about a meal, but the landlord suggests he shares the hot beef-steak pudding and potatoes another guest has ordered. Nicholas is embarrassed at his appearance, but the innkeeper is sure he will not mind, and would “like your way of talking, I know.”

The landlord introduced Nicholas, and:

“Mr. Vincent Crummles received Nicholas with an inclination of the head, something between the courtesy of a Roman emperor and the nod of a pot companion”.

Mr. Crummles, the guest, is the manager of a theatrical troupe. Two of his actors, who also happen to be his sons are rehearsing a swordfight for a play. Nicholas observes that they are not well matched in size, but is told:

“‘Size! … why, it’s the essence of the combat that there should be a foot or two between them. How are you to get up the sympathies of the audience in a legitimate manner, if there isn’t a little man contending against a big one?”



“The Country Manager Rehearses a Combat” - Hablot K. Browne (Phiz) - October 1838

Mr Crummles tells Nicholas that they have been performing in Guildford, and the whole company are going to open in Portsmouth. Mr Crummles is happy for them to share his meal and while they wait, he admires Smike’s appearance, saying he has a “capital countenance” and can see him in theatrical roles. The exhausted Smike keeps falling asleep as they eat.



“Vincent Crummles Studies Nicholas and Smike” - Fred Barnard - 1875

Afterwards, the two young Crummles go to bad, and Mr Crummles begins to tell a variety of stories. Nicholas is preoccupied with his troubles though, thinking about his home and his lack of prospects. Mr Crummles notices that Nicholas is distracted, and asks him what is the matter. Nicholas is surprised at the abruptness of the question, but admits that he is worried about what he and his friend will live on.

When he learns that Nicholas is planning to get work on a ship, Crummles tells him outright that they would not hire him:

“Because there’s not a skipper or mate that would think you worth your salt, when he could get a practised hand, … and they as plentiful there, as the oysters in the streets.”

Nicholas is too old to start, and too much of a gentleman. Mr Crummles then suggests that they try their luck on the stage.

“‘Excuse my saying so,’ said the manager, leaning over to Nicholas, and sinking his voice, ‘but what a capital countenance your friend has got!’
‘Poor fellow!’ said Nicholas, with a half-smile, ‘I wish it were a little more plump, and less haggard.’“




“Vincent Crummles Introduced as a Possible Employer” - Charles Stanley Reinhart - 1875

Nicholas has doubts about his own ability, but Mr Crummles shrugs them aside:

“’You can be useful to us in a hundred ways,’ said Mr. Crummles. ‘Think what capital bills a man of your education could write for the shop-windows.’”

As well as making signs to advertise their shows, he could write plays.

“We’ll have a new show-piece out directly … Let me see—peculiar resources of this establishment—new and splendid scenery—you must manage to introduce a real pump and two washing-tubs.”

Nicholas is still not sure, but needs to pay his bill at the inn. When Mr Crummles assures him that he will be able to live like a prince, he decides to join. He will make a pound a week at least, he is told, and more if the shows do well. Nicholas reasons that family are now seventy miles away, and that is more than enough. At least this will allow him to stay in England:

“What if he went abroad, and his mother or Kate were to die the while?”

And the two agree, on a handshake.


back to top