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Nicholas Nickleby
Nicholas Nickleby - Group Read 6
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Nicholas Nickleby: Chapters 11 - 23
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“The very chimneys appear to have grown dismal and melancholy, from having had nothing better to look at than the chimneys over the way. Their tops are battered, and broken, and blackened with smoke; and, here and there, some taller stack than the rest, inclining heavily to one side, and toppling over the roof, seems to meditate taking revenge for half a century’s neglect, by crushing the inhabitants of the garrets beneath.
I quite like the cockney fowls too, who can’t walk or squawk straight! Or
“a cry that might have softened a water-butt, not to say a water-collector”
or referring to a guest as “the back parlour”, as if she actually were the room she inhabited!
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“My pa requests me to write to you, the doctors considering it doubtful whether he will ever recuvver the use of his legs which prevents his holding a pen …”
Every time I think of that, the absurdity just makes me laugh out loud!
Over to you. I'll bet it might be one of yours too!! 😂🤣
I really enjoyed this chapter as well. I just read it as my family and I take a road trip from Ohio to watch (American) soccer games up in Michigan. Great reading for a car ride!I can't agree more about the personifications Dickens employs. The comment about the back parlour was an especially good one!
I appreciated Noggs' remark to Nicholas that he couldn't save the whole world, but he applauded what he did to Squeers!
Oh, I loathe Fanny Squeers! Her letter put me on edge!
I couldn't believe how dramatic Mr Lillyvick got over Squeers taking his punch. He kept going on and on, but I do understand being a little perturbed!
My favorite line was: "Quadruped lions are said to be savage only when they are hungry; biped lions [Mr Lillyvick in this case] are rarely sulky longer than when their appetite for distinction remains unappeased." Once Mr Lillyvick's temper tantrum ended and he was gracious to the Kenwigs again, in particular Morleena, he was once again the life of the party.
At least, I think I read that line about the lions correctly? How did you interpret it,m
I apologize; I am on the app and it bugs me to no end when I can't edit comments. I probably didn't have to refer to soccer as (American) soccer. *face palm* I would have if I used the term "football"; then I would need to clarify with the American descriptor!And my last comment of course should read: " How off you interpret it?"
*How DID you interpret it?Oh my........ *eye roll*
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A good place perhaps to mention that Charles Dickens was quite sporty. Apart from his obsessive walking, he played bar-leaping, bowling, and quoits very energetically. And he and John Forster rode out on their horses a few times a week.
Bionic Jean wrote: "Like Lori, I always love Charles Dickens's personification of the most humble objects, and here, where he is describing a dismal outlook on a run-down area, we read:“The very chim..."
Yes indeed. In the passage cited we see a perfect example of personification at its finest. In the passage, Dickens transcends the more frequent creative nature of the personification of physical attributes and rather presents us with human emotions and feelings.
Too often I initially miss Dickens’s stylistic skill because it functions so well I don’t notice what is actually been written beyond the words that appear on the page.
I constantly need to reread passages.
I could not help laughing when I read Miss Squeers' extraordinary letter.Smike is being warmly welcomed by Noggs. It is obviously the first time that someone, himself very modest (except for Nicholas) is taking such care of him.
I think this chapter (Chapter 15) has got to be one of my all-time favorite Dickens chapters. There was so much going on... the concern between Noggs and the two young men, the comedy and farce going on in the Kenwig household, the tension when Crowl exposes Nicholas and Smike, and the relief when Nicholas shows himself to be a gentleman. I underlined so many passages in this chapter.One of my favorites is definitely the one you quoted, Jean, about Squeers not being able to write because of his injured legs. LOL. And what a great letter... an almost illiterate letter from the child of a schoolmaster! I don't know who took the garnet ring, but I had to laugh when Fanny begs Ralph Nickleby not to press charges against Nicholas - for fear of having his school exposed, I am sure! One thing Fanny did mention was that Nicholas and Smike were "supposed to have been took up by some stage-coach". If so, that would explain the boys' rapid trip to London.
I loved this passage: "'Now be advised by me,' said Newman, speaking for the moment, in his earnestness, like any other man." What a beautiful passage revealing the true Newman, and not the abased man who works for Ralph Nickleby.
And yes, the personifications and the identity of a person by their dwelling place, ie "the back parlor." And again, a moment of laughter when Lillivick tells Mr. Kenwig that "it would have made no difference respecting that pound or two which I shall leave among your [five] children when I die." It really was too funny to see the extent of the Kenwig's groveling for a pittance of an inheritance!
And one more, when "Mr. Lillivick had been actually seen, in the perturbation of his spirits, to kiss Miss Petowker several times, behind the room door, as calmly as if nothing distressing were going forward.". Mr. Lillivick!
I really hope we see more of the Kenwig family!
I am so intrigued with your references to Sketches by Boz, Jean and Peter, that I must try to get to it next year.
Jean, I also picked the same line from Fanny Squeers’ letter as my favorite of the chapter though there certainly were other good ones. I also loved the discussion of Nicholas’s gentlemanly behavior after he saved the babysitter and baby from burning and acquitted himself so well before the Collector.
Kelly wrote: My favorite line was: "Quadruped lions are said to be savage only when they are hungry; biped lions [Mr Lillyvick in this case] are rarely sulky longer than when their appetite for distinction remains unappeased." I also was taken with that sentence and had it underlined!
Fanny's letter only validated my thoughts of her. A bunch of lies; a slanderous attempt to destroy Nicholas' character and life.
When Noggs told them about the letter, he stated that he "took a hasty copy of it while he was out." Did he mean that he wrote a copy of it and the original is still available to Ralph??!
This was a crazy chapter full of humor and compassion.
I am appreciating everyone's comments, some very insightful, which are adding to my enjoyment of the story. One of my favorite humorous comments in this chapter was when Nicholas calls Squeers "the black-hearted scoundrel" and the next line starts with "With this gentle allusion to the absent Mr. Squeers...".
When reading Dickens, I find myself processing the material using different trains of thought. So while one train of thought, concerned more with fluidity of story or perspective, sees Peter's point on chapter 14 as filler, another perspective of mine, focused more on what Dickens the author is doing and trying to consider why, sees chapters 14 and 15 as one scene and find them incredibly interesting. I will add to that in a later post but first want to stress my appreciation to Jean for how how helpful her thoughtful posts are to my enjoyment of this novel. I cannot express that as cleverly nor heartfelt as I would like, but I truly notice the difference when reading these novels with her notes. That said, I am risking undercutting her comment on the opening of Chapter 14 by adding the words that precede the sentence that opens with "The very chimneys."
"...two irregular rows of tall meagre houses, which seem to have stared each other out of countenance years ago.
I absolutely love the last phrase of that excerpt. It is almost a poetic conceit in its brevity and conveys the dual thought that the houses are sick of looking at each other and have been for time immemorial.
It is as if the stark plainess of the houses has affronted their twins on the other side of the street to the point of contributing to the decay which has taken place over time thus adding to the ugliness of the houses and their misery from seeing it. I find the phrase brilliant, complex, and perfect setup for the details of the sentence thatfollows.
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I really enjoyed them all, and know exactly what you mean Peter, by having to read passages in Charles Dickens over again to fully appreciate all the stylistic devices. Like Sam, I find I am following different trains of thought at different times ... the "many layers" I sometimes refer to, is how I see it.
Writing summaries of course means that I do read a chapter over more than once, as you'll know, and some parts several times. I also discover parts I had highlighted on my kindle from my previous reading a few years ago (which was not my first). The thing is, each time I find something "new" to delight me, and when I am overcome with the impossibility of choosing quotations or best bits to summarise, (it's all good!) I know that everyone here will have their own insights, and also pull out the choicest parts for us to savour anew. I love this and find it a unique way of going deeply into a novel's fathoms. Thank you for such a sweet comment, Sam. 🥰
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Kelly - Yes, Noggs copied out the letter by hand, (no doubt secretly!) and the original is still with Ralph Nickleby. What a cliffhanger!
I also very much enjoyed that quotation, and all the parts selected by Chris, Sue and Katy.
And Claudia, I too like Noggs very much. He such a good-hearted man with an irresistible personality ... if only he could come off the booze, what a good life he could have.
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A long chapter - almost double length!
Nicholas soon feels he cannot impose on Noggs’s generosity, and rents a small room reclaimed from the roof area space on the second floor, from which all he can see are chimney pots and roof tiles. He sells some of his clothes to rent some sticks of furniture for it, and leaving Smike happily arranging things, takes a walk to ponder his prospects:
“which, like the prospect outside his window, were sufficiently confined and dingy …
The unhappy state of his own affairs was the one idea which occupied the brain of Nicholas, walk as fast as he would”.
After a while he sees a sign outside an employment agency, advertising many positions. He goes inside, and sees a fat lady seated by the fire, and a clerk at a desk. There are several young girls seated on a bench, ready for any work as skivvies which may come up. As Nicholas waits, a genteel female, in shepherd’s-plaid (black and white tartan) boots, wanting a position as a cook, is offered various jobs. They all have conditions, and there is only one which suits her.
It is now Nicholas’s turn, but he sees a young lady enter: “who could be scarcely eighteen, of very slight and delicate figure, but exquisitely shaped,”
and gives precedence to her.
“Nicholas Looks for a Position at an Employment Office” - Fred Barnard - 1875
She enquires about a governess position, looking very sad. She is accompanied by a grimy girl, who exchanges various grins and glances with the servant girls waiting on the bench. The young lady is given a referral and leaves. Nicholas asks, when it is his turn, if there are any secretarial positions for a man, and although the proprietor says there are a dozen, Nicholas is given just one: the name of a member of Parliament, with a salary to be discussed. The fat lady in charge says:
“they must be pretty good ones, because he’s a member of parliament.”
Straightaway Nicholas goes to the address of Mr. Gregsbury, the great member of parliament, of Manchester Buildings, Westminster, who is the MP advertising for a secretary. There are a lot of men waiting in the hallway, who are all called up at once. Although nobody seems to want to go, when they do move Nicholas is carried along with the throng to the MP’s rooms:
“Mr. Gregsbury [had] senatorial gravity, and a statesmanlike habit of keeping his feelings under control. He was a tough, burly, thick-headed gentleman, with a loud voice, a pompous manner, a tolerable command of sentences with no meaning in them, and, in short, every requisite for a very good member indeed.”
Mr. Gregsbury informs the men that he knows they are dissatisfied with his conduct by the articles in the newspapers. He defends his behaviour at great length, by saying he always considers the best interest of his homeland, which he loves like a true patriot. His blustering is not well received.
“one gentleman in the rear did not scruple to remark aloud, that, for his purpose, it savoured rather too much of a ‘gammon’ tendency.” [arrant nonsense]
The gentlemen ask him several questions. One is about a man he was supposed to back, and then abandoned at the last minute in favour of another. Mr. Gregsbury doesn’t answer any of the questions, but denies everything, smiling as he does so.
“The deputation, who had only seen him at canvassing or election time, were struck dumb by his coolness. He didn’t appear like the same man; then he was all milk and honey; now he was all starch and vinegar. But men are so different at different times!”
The men ask him to resign. The MP refuses, smiling and telling them that he does not choose to explain the fine art of politics with those who do not understand it. Angry at this, the spokesman wishes him good morning:
“‘Heaven bless you!’ said Mr. Gregsbury. And the deputation, with many growls and scowls, filed off as quickly as the narrowness of the staircase would allow of their getting down.”
Nicholas quickly approaches, fearing that once by himself the MP might behave differently than when he is aware of being observed. Mr Gregsbury regards him with suspicion at first, thinking he is affiliated with the other group. Nicholas explains the reason for his being there.
“Nicholas describes the position of private secretary” - Charles Stanley Reinhart - 1875
Mr. Gregsbury asks Nicholas what he thinks a secretary’s duties are. Nicholas replies that he believes it is to handle correspondence, organise documents, take dictation, and be agreeable to the employer. Mr. Gregsbury says that a secretary to a Parliament member has additional duties. They must read the papers and scan for important articles. They must write replies to the newspapers in defence of Mr. Gregsbury. They would also have to write speeches … and on and on at great length. Nicholas comments mildly that the salary is small for the amount of duties. He politely declines the position, saying:
“I fear they are too great for my powers, however good my will may be, sir”
and with a sad and pensive air, Nicholas walks back to his tiny garret.
“Smike had scraped a meal together from the remnant of last night’s supper, and was anxiously awaiting his return … the poor fellow had assiduously filled [the plate] with the choicest morsels”
But they remain untouched, when Newman Noggs looks into the room, asking how he has got on.
Dismally, Nicholas tells Newman about his unsuccessful job search. Newman points out that it has only been one day, and so he couldn’t expect much to be accomplished. Nicholas is eager to confront his uncle, saying:
“I should think it no disgrace to work, Heaven knows. Lying indolently here, like a half-tamed sullen beast, distracts me … Show me, in this wide waste of London, any honest means by which I could even defray the weekly hire of this poor room, and see if I shrink from resorting to them!”
He then remembers his recent experiences and adds:
“Except — such squeamishness as is common honesty, and so much pride as constitutes self-respect. I see little to choose, between assistant to a brutal pedagogue, and toad-eater to a mean and ignorant upstart, be he member or no member.’’
Now that Nicholas has made his true feelings about the MP clear, Noggs says hesitatingly:
“I hardly know whether I should tell you what I heard this morning, or not”
but eventually comes out with it. He tells Nicholas that Mrs. Kenwigs wants to hire Nicholas as a French tutor for her children, at 5 shillings a week. Newman has told her that Nicholas’s name is Mr. Johnson, with the explanation that although Nicholas is a tutor of great accomplishments, he says, he has been “involved in some misfortunes” which Noggs was not at liberty to explain. He knows it is beneath Nicholas …
But Nicholas is delighted, and accepts the position. Newman informs Mrs. Kenwigs, who buys the supplies and asks to see Nicholas immediately. He reports that she is “highly excited at the prospect of this addition to their gentility, [and] wished the initiatory lesson to come off immediately.”
Nicholas, although aware of the expectations of his class and station in life is not too proud to take a humble position if it means he will not be indebted to Noggs for his day-to-day needs. With alacrity, he goes to the first floor as quickly as he can.
There he finds the four Miss Kenwigses waiting on their bench; and the baby too, in a dwarf porter’s chair with a wooden tray before it, playing with a toy horse without a head. Mrs Kenwigs is there, and Mr. Lillyvick and Miss Petowker are also waiting, ready to watch the lesson. My Lillyvick replies rather sharply when introduced to “Mr Johnson”. Now that he knows Nicholas is not a gentleman of property, but has to work for his living, he fears that he may have been overly respectful at the party, and:
“it was rather an aggravating circumstance if a tax collector had been too polite to a teacher.”
Mrs Kenwigs tells Morleena that even though they have a private tutor now, they must not give themselves airs. She stresses this, and says they must say: “we ain’t proud, because ma says it’s sinful.” Morleena understands the unspoken message [as do we].
Mr. Lillyvick begins quizzing Nicholas about the French language, asking in turn whether he considers it pretty, sensible or cheerful. Nicholas does his best to answer, but it becomes evident that Mr Lillyvig dislikes the French language because he has bad associations with it from the Napoleonic wars.
Mrs. Kenwigs is keen for her children’s tuition to begin, and when her uncle has given his permission, Nicholas settles down to tutor the Kenwigs’ girls, watched in silent admiration by their mother and Miss Petowker.
“Another Educational Satire — The Private Tutor” - Hablot K. Browne (Phiz) August 1838
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Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
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Style: A self-portrait? Or the author inserting his views.
There are several points in this chapter which are clearly autobiographical, but more evident is when we can hear Charles Dickens’s voice coming through the omniscient one:
1. Religious views
Charles Dickens writes in satirical vein about several of the jobs offered to the genteel cook, e.g:
“servants allowed to see male cousins, if godly. Note. Cold dinner in the kitchen on the Sabbath, Mr. Gallanbile being devoted to the Observance question. No victuals whatever cooked on the Lord’s Day, with the exception of dinner for Mr. and Mrs. Gallanbile, which, being a work of piety and necessity, is exempted. Mr. Gallanbile dines late on the day of rest, in order to prevent the sinfulness of the cook’s dressing herself.”
Charles Dickens had strong views about the Sunday Observance question. He campaigned against Sabbatarian organisations, who wished to outlaw all Sunday activities that might be considered irreligious. In July 1836 he had published a pamphlet titled Sunday under Three Heads:As It Is; As Sabbath Bills Would Make It; As It Might Be Made attacking the MP Sir Andrew Agnew, who had repeatedly attempted to introduce a Sunday Observance Bill into Parliament. (Those who know the first two of Anthony Trollope's six "Chronicles of Barsetshire": The Warden (1855) and Barchester Towers (1857), will remember that this question is a key theme in particularly the second one.)
It is worth reading Sunday under Three Heads, bearing in mind that Charles Dickens held strong Christian beliefs, but was well aware that the only time many working folk had free from their duties was a half day each Sunday - or even less.
“each female servant required to join the Little Bethel Congregation three times every Sunday—with a serious footman. If the cook is more serious than the footman, she will be expected to improve the footman; if the footman is more serious than the cook, he will be expected to improve the cook.”
“Little Bethel” was a common name for Dissenters’ Chapels, at the time. Charles Dickens is gently poking fun at Dissenters from the Anglican church, for being overly sober. Or he may be slotting into a common perception that they were, since he did attend a Church of England himself, and his beliefs even at this time were not traditional Anglican ones.
These are cases where the author’s voice is clearly present, and he was to take up this and similar themes over and over in his later novels.
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Nicholas, now in a gloomy attic room with no prospects:
“resolved to banish them from his thoughts by dint of hard walking.”
We have seen many times that Charles Dickens was an obsessive walker, especially late at night when he couldn’t sleep (e.g. Sam's group read of Night Walks). He wrote to John Forster that he was ill if he could not walk a good amount each day. He knew London like the back of his hand and would walk through all the dingiest areas, visiting the morgue and wharfs where suicides were pulled from the river, and so on. We see the knowledge he gained in later novels and stories; you may well call several to mind but I fear spoilers!
Another autobiographical part I’m sure others will have picked up is ostensibly Nicholas noticing a young lady enter the employment office:
“who could be scarcely eighteen, of very slight and delicate figure, but exquisitely shaped,”
The beloved sister-in-law Mary Hogarth makes yet another fictional appearance here.
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The long description of an MP’s duties seems to me a little bloated (sorry, Mr Dickens!) but that may be because it does not personally interest me. It did interest
Charles Dickens very much however, and his job as a court reporter would have often brought him into contact with MPs. It was a lifelong concern and he was keen to show both the faults of the system, and the faults of lazy and inept individuals. Here Nicholas remains polite, as he is a gentleman, but it is abundantly clear that he is the one who would have had to do all the work which Mr Gregsbury (the MP) should be doing, and Mr Gregsbury would take all the credit. Nicholas refers to whoever did this as being a “toad-eater” to a “mean and ignorant upstart” i.e. Mr Gregsbury.
A couple of years later, in 1841, Charles Dickens, who was already something of a celebrity, was invited to stand for Parliament in the general election that year. He flatly refused, as we might have expected, with his jaundiced opinions of them all.
This chapter prefigures descriptions which ridicule bureaucracy we have read, in both Little Dorrit (the Circumlocution Office) and Bleak House (the Courts of Chancery).
4. Class ...
There are many indications of class distinction - and Charles Dickens’s personal attitude towards it - in this chapter. However, I have written enough after this very long chapter, so pass all thoughts and reactions over to others now.
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“I see little to choose, between assistant to a brutal pedagogue, and toad-eater to a mean and ignorant upstart, be he member or no member”
or the narrator's "a loud voice, a pompous manner, a tolerable command of sentences with no meaning in them, and, in short, every requisite for a very good member indeed.”
No, there's no way Charles Dickens would ever have been a member of parliament!
Bionic Jean wrote: "“servants allowed to see male cousins, if godly. Note. Cold dinner in the kitchen on the Sabbath, Mr. Gallanbile being devoted to the Observance question. No victuals whatever cooked on the Lord’s Day, with the exception of dinner for Mr. and Mrs. Gallanbile, which, being a work of piety and necessity, is exempted. Mr. Gallanbile dines late on the day of rest, in order to prevent the sinfulness of the cook’s dressing herself.”
Charles Dickens had strong views about the Sunday Observance question. He campaigned against Sabbatarian organisations, who wished to outlaw all Sunday activities that might be considered irreligious.
One way of attacking these organizations that allows for tongue-in-cheek humour is saracasm directed at calling out the hypocrisy of the ostentatiously religious. I'm also quite certain that their name (typically Dickensian) is intended to be a very pointed pun. Gallanbile = Gallon (of) bile
I so appreciate Sam's comment above about the many trains of thought going on at the same time when reading Dickens. I feel like he begs me to slow down, pick a train, and ride a long, and when I do, it always pays off. A line I liked in this chapter was when we're introduced to Mr. Gregsbury's servant: “The servant was a very pale, shabby boy, who looked as if he had slept underground from his infancy, as very likely he had.” I love how Dickens gives us an image we can clearly see in our minds, and ties it to a social concern.
The other line I noted was one Jean mentioned in her excellent summary (I bet this was a particularly difficult chapter to summarize, Jean--thank you!). I have been on both sides of many job interviews, and never have I heard (or said) about the proposed job duties “I fear they are too great for my powers, however good my will may be ..” What refreshing honesty! I do like our Nicholas.
Kathleen C.
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Oh yes! Thanks Paul 😂
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Yes, the trickiest yet and everything had to stop for a couple of days while I got to grips with it as one of our members might remember as I couldn't give proper attention to messaging 🙄 But we are almost a quarter of the way through now! I wonder if everyone feels they have a handle on what it's about and what might be coming up. With modern novels we usually think we have the measure of a book by now - but not, I feel, with Charles Dickens.
The proposed job duties amounted to the entire job of the MP, so I too appreciated Nicholas's answer 😁. I fear that at 19 I would probably have said outright, "Well, if I do all that, what are you going to do?" but Nicholas has the maturity to be both honest and also politely sarcastic. No prior knowledge of politics or political history is hinted at, so by saying “I fear they are too great for my powers, however good my will may be” he is pointing out that the list of duties is surely too great for anyone's powers.
Bionic Jean wrote: "No prior knowledge of politics or political history is hinted at, so by saying “I fear they are too great for my powers, however good my will may be” he is pointing out that the list of duties is surely too great for anyone's powers."Perhaps he is suggesting, if somewhat obtusely, that it is beyond his (or anyone's) powers to make a politician appear to be upright, productive, honest, useful, proactive, or intelligent!
My first job after university was as a civil servant in Ottawa and my direct supervisor made it crystal clear during my first evaluation that the prime duty of my job was to make my boss look good. And he said it in those exact words!!
I have also encountered the "making the boss look good" mentality, as I imagine many others have also. It is very annoying when you do good work and the boss gets the recognition, but enought of that.Jean, I appreciate the information you shared about Dickens' walks through London. Having read several of his works now, I can say he certainly had an amazing grasp of people from all walks of life.
I have to say I do not have any idea where this novel is going, except I do have an idea about Uncle Ralph. But maybe Dickens did not know where he was going with it at this point either. At any rate, it makes me more eager to press on and see what is going to happen next.
I notice that Dickens also gets in another comment here about authors when Mr. Gregsbury talks about "if any preposterous bill were brought forward for giving poor grubbing devils of authors a right to their own property...".
I loved your comprehensive summary and all the explanations, Jean, particularly those linked with Dickens' biography.As ridiculous as Mr Lillyvig may sound at first sight, the Napoleonic wars have undeniably impacted the perception of anything French in England for years, and, I guess, in other countries as well.
I also loved the most clever Kenwigs children on their bench, including the baby in his high chair and the family friends attending religiously.
Mr Noggs was cautious not to reveal Nicholas' name and find out an alias instead - most probably for preventing them from connecting Nicholas (who anyway had bolted out from that honourable school in Yorkshire) to his (known) uncle, and is being defamed by Miss Squeers, a master in spelling.
Dickens seems to have compiled quite a list of institutions and vocations the conduct of which he vehemently disapproved; in this novel, private schools were the first to be treated to his scorn, and now in Chapter 16, back bench members of parliament (and perhaps, by implication, politicians in general) are depicted as do-nothing blatherskites. In his other novels, he has targeted slum landlords, the chancery (and again perhaps by implication, lawyers in general) and self-aggrandizing philanthropists. The list goes on ….
Earlier I was commenting on chapter 14 and 15 and how much I liked those two chapters which see two halves of a whole. The main reason I like them is the approach Dickens takes with the narration. We have spoken lightly about the variation in narrative voice or style that Dickens uses in different chapters depending on theme. The best previous example is the contrast between the chapters describing the school where the voice seems Dark Romantic, almost Gothic in the words used, mood suggested and imagery evoked. In contrast the chapters with Fanny Squeers' flirtations are light-hearted almost silly in their presentation. I think the consensus view is that this inconsistency in style is a flaw, but I am fascinated with why he chose to write that way. Is it in imitation of other writers? Or is he just trying to flex his writing muscles and showing off a little that he can write in these various styles? Or is he trying to accomplish something else which he feels he can best accomplish by continously changing the narrative style? I think the latter is true and chapters 14 and 15 appealed to me because they had a style which IMO, prompted the reader to picture the action much as one would see it on the stage. After the quick poetic intro, we are brought into this new approach with a brief setup scene where Crowl visits Noggs and through their conversation we learn of the anniversary party and then Noggs is at the party and it unfolds around him and he disappears into the background as we meet all these new characters who reveal themselves mostly through dialogue and actions. And despite the setup it feels like we have come into this scene in medias res and in fact were it a play that is how the anniversary party scene would open-- the curtain pulling back showing a party in place on the stage. I do not wish to rehash the who.e of the two chapters but it is for me like havinga little play right in the middle of the novel that is fairly selfcontained ending perhaps with the farcical baby sitter's hair burning threat to the baby then rescued by Nicholas while knocking the papa down the stairs. And despite the little play being mostly self-contained Dickens still manages to advance the plot of the novel and broaden the character of Nicholas as well as Noggs. I think it is very interesting writing and madeto stand even futher by Dickens choice to follow it with the chapter 16 told in another complete different syle, the bureaucratic dry sophisticated narrative Dickens was to use so successfully in later novels like Bleak House as was pointed out by Jean. I am sorry to drag us back but wanted to point out this play-within-the-novel aspect and Dickens use of varied narrative voices becuse I find it so stimulating.
I agree with Sam that Dickens knew exactly what he was doing in changing the style to suit the nature of the characters and the scene, It would have been impossible to treat Fanny's tea party as anything less than a farce, while other scenes, such as Squeers's brutal treatment of Smike, for example, demand a very grim style in the telling.
And all that happens in this chapter ends on the domestic note with Nicholas beginning his new position as French tutor to the Kenwigs girls. Somehow this feels like a pause on the way to his future! And once again, Newman Noggs was front and center arranging the entire situation. As I typed Noggs name, I began to consider his first name and wonder what he was like in his former life. Was he this nice and helpful to others before his downfall (whatever happened) or has he become a “new man”? I suppose we’ll never know but the name just jumped out at me suddenly.
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Paul and Katy - Yes nothing has really changed, has it 🙄 We can still recognise all the tendencies in political manoeuvering, across the board. The entire chapter 16 is a brilliant parody, from the lackadaisical employment office - which should be a hive of activity but just has potential workers sitting around, and 2 somnolent staff - right through to Mr Gregsbury, and the description of his duties, which he expects Nicholas to perform for a derisory 15 bob (three quarters of £1) a week.
Sue - "New-man" is exercising my brain too!
Claudia - I was thoroughly enjoying your post, and then laughed out loud at "Miss Squeers, a master in spelling"!
Yes, absolutely it is both clever and sensitive of Newman Noggs to have given Nicholas an alias, so that it would be more difficult for him to be traced. With Nicholas's hot-headedness, he is unlikely to have thought of this - and may well have had moral scruples about it, if he had.
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I'm going to respond to both your and Sam's posts together if I may, as they both deal with the two aspects of style and theme, but in Nicholas Nickleby they are intertwined even more than in his later novels.
Sam - I really enjoyed your insights. Hopefully the "consensus" you are referring to (when you say some believe the different ways of writing to be a fault) is not here! We've briefly discussed the way Charles Dickens uses sketches to convey different aspects of society and location, and also that his contracted remit for Nicholas Nickleby was to include comedic elements "of similar character" and in the same way he did with The Pickwick Papers. But as Jim pointed out, he also had his campaigning hat on. 🤔
Therefore Charles Dickens needed a way to both campaign and entertain. What we end up with is all kinds of writing: melodrama, political satire, class comedy, social criticism and domestic farce. Nicholas Nickleby has a loose narrative almost throughout (as Katy says, we "(I) do not have any idea where this novel is going") - and we've also discussed the reasons for that. As she says, neither did Charles Dickens! I've given several examples of how he responded to audience reaction, and wrote on the hoof.
One advantage of writing this way, serially, is that he could push the story in whichever way he wanted - thus harking back to the picaresque 18th century tradition. Yet Nicholas Nickleby is the prototype for his later novels, in that (as you say Sam) he managed to use different forms of writing and suit each to their theme, melding it into a whole and creating something uniquely him. It's not him practising 🙄, or experimental 🤔, or a fault 😠 I don't think, because it works so well! 😁
I can't put this any better than the literary critic and poet, Mark Ford, who pointed out that:
"the jubilant parody of [something coming up - but we have read others already] coincides with his developing awareness of how the layered interconnections of melodrama may be adapted into the form of the novel, and used to represent the complex social relationships of contemporary society in a manner beyond the linear narrative of the picaresque".
Sam - I totally agree that "Dickens use of varied narrative voices [is] so stimulating" and thank you for your various examples. Charles Dickens's writing is full of verve and life, and he retained the extraordinary ability he displays here, to make us laugh one moment, cry the next and feel cynical with him, or incensed at some injustice, at the blink of an eye or turn of a page. He takes the best of theatrical devices, and 18th century diversions, to create something rich, new and very powerful.
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Kate walks to her job with a heavy heart. She sees other sickly girls going to their jobs and their “unhealthy looks and feeble gait”, reinforces her dread.
She arrives early, but after a while knocks timidly at the door. The footman’s manner is a little insulting until he hears that Kate is to see Mrs. Mantalini. He shows her upstairs, through all the debris of what evidently had been a late-night party, and into a back-room. There are folding doors between this and the apartment in which she had first met Mrs. Mantalini.
“There was not much to amuse in the room; of which the most attractive feature was, a half-length portrait in oil, of Mr. Mantalini, whom the artist had depicted scratching his head in an easy manner, and thus displaying to advantage a diamond ring, the gift of Madame Mantalini before her marriage.”
As she waits, Kate overhears a conversation between Mrs. Mantalini and her husband. Mr Mantalini is criticising her for being jealous, warning her it is going to make her an unhappy person:
“‘I am miserable,’ returned Madame Mantalini, evidently pouting."
Mrs Mantalini says that she is unhappy, and accuses her husband of flirting with one of the workers. He wheedles, flirts and excuse himself, but she threatens to take poison if he waltzes with anyone else. Mr Mantalini moves closer, saying that he could have married two countesses. She remarks that it was just one countess in his original story, but he insists there were two …
“Mantalini Ingratiates Himself with his Wife” - Fred Barnard 1875
“Had I not seen, at a morning concert, the demdest little fascinator in all the world, and while that little fascinator is my wife, may not all the countesses and dowagers in England be—”
Mrs Mantalini feels flattered that he married her instead, and they are reconciled with an affectionate - and noisy - kiss.
Hearing they are low on money, Mr. Mantalini states they need to get more.
“we must have some discount out of old Nickleby to carry on the war with, demmit.”
Mrs Mantalini tries to resist, but when her husband says he wants to buy a horse so that he can parade it around the park in view of the rejected countesses, she gives way and goes to see what is in her desk.
Going through the folding-door, Mrs. Mantalini is surprised to see Kate, saying that the footman had neglected to mention her.
“‘I will twist his demd nose off his countenance for leaving such a very pretty creature all alone by herself,’ said her husband.”
Mrs Mantalini reprimands him, but he secretly makes faces at Kate, who turns away.
To his delight, his wife gives some papers to him. Kate’s last sight of Mr Mantalini is him lying full length on the sofa, with his heels in the air and a newspaper in his hand.
Mrs. Mantalini takes Kate down to:
“a close room with a skylight, and as dull and quiet as a room need be”
and introduces her to the forewoman, Miss Knag:
“a short, bustling, over-dressed female, full of importance.”
“Madame Mantalini Introduces Kate to Miss Knag” - Hablot K. Browne (Phiz) - August 1838
Miss Knag takes great pride in her own petite appearance, although she is no longer young. She makes it clear that it is she who models the clothes, but Mrs. Mantalini says that Kate should start off modelling, as she can’t yet do anything else.
Miss Knag attempts to chat confidentially with Mrs Mantalini, but is put in her place. It does not deter Miss Knag, who responds with smooth flattery, talking of Mrs Mantalini’s:
“ready humour … the most remarkable—hem. It is so gentle, so sarcastic, and yet so good-natured …
every now and then, she was accustomed, in the torrent of her discourse, to introduce a loud, shrill, clear ‘hem!’“
“Madame Mantalini introduces her talented protégé” - Charles Stanley Reinhart - 1875
Miss Knag, we are warned, is weak and vain, and described as one of those people who “you may trust them as far as you can see them, and no farther.”
Mrs. Mantalini leaves Kate under Miss Knag’s instruction, and the other workers also assess Kate critically.
Miss Knag asks Kate what she thinks of her employers. Kate doesn’t know Mrs. Mantalini well enough to say, but she finds the husband odious. Miss Knag is shocked:
“a fine tall, full-whiskered dashing gentlemanly man, with such teeth and hair, and—hem—well now, you do astonish me.”
Kate says she might be foolish but does not regret having said so and will be unlikely to change her mind later.
The other workers comment on Kate wearing black. Kate hates wearing mourning, for it makes people less friendly towards her, even her own friends. The workers learn that her father has died very suddenly, but they notice that the questions upset Kate, and stop interrogating her.
“Miss Knag, finding it hopeless to attempt extracting any further particulars just then, reluctantly commanded silence, and bade the work proceed.”
Kate and Miss Knag are summoned to model clothes for a rich lady and her daughter. The customers are bad tempered and insulting to Kate. They complain about her awkwardness, and her hands being “cold—dirty—coarse—” and do not want her to help them again. Kate’s feelings are hurt, and her spirits fall even lower.
She has to disguise her feelings from her mother, who has been daydreaming all day. She remembers a case where this is exactly what happened. Not apparently connecting the fact that the lady also won the lottery with her attaining a partnership, Mrs Nickleby shares her hopes that Mrs. Mantalini will make Kate a partner in the business, and that Nicholas might become a head-master. Kate takes comfort in knowing that Nicholas is established at the school and is consoled—neither knowing the truth, nor knowing of recent events.
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Class Consciousness
The quotation from Sketches by Boz about milliners assistants, which I posted the other day after chapter 11, is amplified here:
“At this early hour many sickly girls, whose business, like that of the poor worm, is to produce, with patient toil, the finery that bedecks the thoughtless and luxurious, traverse our streets, making towards the scene of their daily labour, and catching, as if by stealth, in their hurried walk, the only gasp of wholesome air and glimpse of sunlight which cheer their monotonous existence during the long train of hours that make a working day.”
What a world of bitter criticism of a working girl’s lot there is from the author in this paragraph.
And again, when Kate feels wounded by the ill-tempered customers, the narrator comments:
“May not the complaint, that common people are above their station, often take its rise in the fact of uncommon people being below theirs?”
Charles Dickens is very much on the side of the underclass.
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“I think my foot may be a little smaller. Miss Nickleby, I am sure, will not be offended at my saying that, when she hears that our family always have been celebrated for small feet ever since—hem—ever since our family had any feet at all, indeed, I think.” 😂🤣
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“Here Miss Knag paused to take breath, and while she pauses it may be observed—not that she was marvellously loquacious and marvellously deferential to Madame Mantalini, since these are facts which require no comment”
and so on. It makes us feel we are standing right next to the observer.
But now over to you, and enjoy the free day tomorrow 😊.
"May not the complaint, that common people are above their station, often take its rise from the fact of uncommon people being below theirs?"Of Dickens' many epigrams, this has to be one of his best. He brilliantly expresses the fundamental unfairness whereby upper class people are not held accountable for rude, obnoxious behavior that would never be tolerated in people of lower classes.
One senses that it's not the existence of Britain's rigid class structure that Dickens deplores but rather the abuses that are tolerated within it.
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And that's absolutely right, it is corrupt individuals within the Britain's rigid class structure which Dickens condemns, not the existence of it. In fact we can extrapolate further ... when he rallies against any social or bureaucratic system, it is never the fact of having such a system, but the people who have implemented a rotten system, or one run by incompetents, whom he attacks.
George Orwell's long essay Charles Dickens (this is the link) goes into this in great detail, with many examples. He greatly admired his writing, but believed him to be fundamentally bourgeois (and from Orwell this is rather an insult!)
I have not the pleasure of reading Orwell's essay on Dickens, though I know of it, and will one day (hopefully) read it. Thank you Jean, for reminding me of it. I very much like both Jim and Jean's comments about the "may not the complaint . . ." line, which I also underlined. It really does get at the heart of key Dickensian themes.The line that stays with me from this chapter is at the very beginning. Jean already mentioned it:
"many sickly girls, whose business, like that of the poor worm, is to produce, with patient toil, the finery that bedecks the thoughtless and luxurious"
This brilliant simile also strikes me as very Dickensian, equating young female milliners with the humble silkworm. It really illustrates how these girls are being used without commensurate compensation. It's easy to visualize how lowly their lives are.
And the last couple words, are carrying a lot of weight here too "bedecks the thoughtless and luxurious", saying so much about the customers of these shops, two of which we meet, and they very much live up to the "thoughtless" description.
My favorite line from this chapter: “It may be further remarked, that Miss Knag still aimed at youth, although she had shot beyond it, years ago; and that she was weak and vain, and one of those people who are best described by the axiom, that you may trust them as far as you can see them, and no farther.”She definitely seems to be trying to create a niche for herself in the business above the girls. After seeing Kate’s experience in the shop on her first day, it’s no wonder Miss Knag is working on these airs of importance. She has likely endured some of the same terrible behavior from clients.
And to point out one more obvious Dickensian naming pun that nobody has commented on yet:Miss Knag screams at me Miss-s-s NAG !
I'm trying to figure out the relationship between that "demd fine husband", Mr. Mantalini, and his long-suffering wife, Madame Mantalini. Why does she put up with him and support him financially? Is it because he is a class above her (he suggests he could have married two countesses), and she is one or more rungs beneath him? Of all the Dickens novels I have read before, this one seems to really accentuate the class system, and it is so confusing to me!So if I understand it, husband Mantalini is a gentleman; Madame Mantalini is not? Then Mrs. Knag (Miss Nag, great catch Paul) is beneath Madame Mantalini, and Kate is even more so? So is this class system also related to one's economic status, as it is in the States?
I find demd Mantalini insufferable! I hope enough readers complained about him for Dickens to write him out of the story.
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LOL Shirley - if you remember Mr Mantalini's real name is "Muntle":
"but had been converted, by an easy transition into Mantalini: the lady rightly considering that an English appellation would be of serious injury to the business."
So Mrs M is of similar mind. They are both pretenders, and similar in class. Mr M is just a charlatan: a gambler who lives by his wits, (as we see so many in this novel do). Mrs M is older than he is, and we were told he married her for her money.
His affected manners and dress are all show; Mr M has found that being a dandy impresses his new wife who is dazzled by his exotic turns of phrase. His ability to survive all depends on this. Although he is evidently lecherous and leers at all the girls, hopefully Mrs M keeps an eagle eye on him!
What Mrs M (an older women who has been passed over in the marriage stakes) gains is total adoration, which boosts and validates her pretentious and vain self image.
Ghastly pair, yes. At the moment I feel they deserve each other and am entertained by Mr M's flights of fancy and inventive turns of phrase, but we'll have to see what happens to them. We know that Charles Dickens rarely leaves any loose ends, which is extraordinary when we consider his huge cast of characters!
Thank you, Jean! I had forgotten that Madame Mantalini was older than her husband, and as you say, I guess it flattered her to have gotten such a “catch”. I just hope he doesn’t wipe her out — which reminds me… I wonder if he meant they borrow from Ralph Nickleby when Mantalini said, “we must have some discount out of old Nickleby to carry on the war with.” It appears that they are beholden to him.
Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: " I wonder if he meant they borrow from Ralph Nickleby when Mantalini said, “we must have some discount out of old Nickleby to carry on the war with.” It appears that they are beholden to him. "I don't think so! My interpretation is that they would sell some of the millinery business's accounts receivable or gambling debts owed to Mr Mantalini to Nickleby at a (steep?) discount in order to raise necessary cash to continue their lavish lifestyle.
That makes sense, Paul. I hadn’t thought of that financial arrangement. I hope it doesn’t cost Madame Mantalini her business.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Nicholas Nickleby (other topics)Nicholas Nickleby (other topics)
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Little Dorrit (other topics)
Phèdre (other topics)
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Charles Dickens (other topics)William Charles Macready (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
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Charles Dickens (other topics)
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It is today’s chapter 15 which carries straight on; it’s quite cannily done. The original readers would have thought, no, they are in another part of the country. And thinking of the distance, Fanny Squeers cannot have her gown made at Mrs Mantalini’s as you wondered Paul as it is 252 miles from where she lives. Unlike her father, Fanny Squeers is not likely to have travelled very far at all, and would never have heard of the shop.
We do have to give Charles Dickensa bit of leeway here I think, as he’s not telling us how Nicholas and Smike travelled other than Shanks’s pony (walking), but perhaps it would not have been entertaining enough for us! We had to have two interpolated stories for the dreary ride before.