The Thinking Reed - Oct BOTM

[Diane]

Review thread: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Diane]

1. How does Isabelle’s character development reflect the novel’s exploration of personal independence and emotional dependency?

2. In what ways does Rebecca West critique the social and political structures of 1920s France?

3. How does the title *The Thinking Reed*, drawn from Blaise Pascal's quote, relate to the themes of human fragility and resilience in the novel?

4. How does West portray the role of marriage and romantic relationships in shaping women's identities?

5. What role does wealth and privilege play in the moral decisions made by the characters in the novel?

6. Discuss the significance of Isabelle's friendship with her cousin Laurence. How does this relationship contrast with her romantic entanglements?

7. In what ways does West explore the theme of freedom versus security?

8. How do Isabelle’s experiences in post-World War I society reflect the changing roles of women during this time period?

9. What is the significance of death in the novel? How does this event affect Isabelle’s understanding of love and loss?

10. How does Rebecca West use Isabelle’s inner thoughts and reflections to provide insight into broader philosophical and social issues?

[Gail]

1. How does Isabelle’s character development reflect the novel’s exploration of personal independence and emotional dependency?

Truly, the novel is largely about Isabelle and her finding a way forward to a dependable and stable lifestyle that she has always longed for. She is put off by dramatic events and the desire on the part of many of her rich associates to be always looking for the adrenaline rush of change. Not significant change mind you, no revolutionaries here, but a dramatic change that will give them the stimulation that they crave. Isabelle, however, believes that she has to act out a number of times in an outrageous and dramatic way in order to cause others to believe something or do something that she can not seem to cause in any other way. She longs for emotional dependency because that is both what the times demand of a women but also because Isabelle herself would like to be free of the weight of acting alone.

2. In what ways does Rebecca West critique the social and political structures of 1920s France?

West mocks and satires the upper class French and English of that era. She doesn't introduce us to many characters outside this class except for servants and craftspeople that support the rich. Plus a few doctors who are largely caricatures. In this way, West dips us into the foolish ways of the rich and how they don't seem to have a true life of either a practical nature or of the mind. Our Main Character's second husband is an industrialist and is evidently good at it but we are not shown that. We see him only doing things like drinking, golfing, and entertaining. One exits the book thinking that although the rich must still encounter death and they must still find their own way to emotional stability they nevertheless only really suffer from a lack of stimulation.

3. How does the title *The Thinking Reed*, drawn from Blaise Pascal's quote, relate to the themes of human fragility and resilience in the novel?

Humans are as fragile as a hollow reed but they have the capacity to think and although this gives them a strength that other animals do not have it does also cause a different kind of fragility which leaks out into their emotional states as well as impacting their physical wellbeing.

4. How does West portray the role of marriage and romantic relationships in shaping women's identities?

Isabelle, and most of the other female characters in the book, MUST get married. They may marry for love, or love of the adventure of romance, but most of them marry for money. Isabelle, who has her own money, still feels that she has to marry because she wants a "normal" house full of children. Their identity is really as a partner to their lover or their husband.

5. What role does wealth and privilege play in the moral decisions made by the characters in the novel?

The wealthy have their own rules of behavior. It is considered quite ugly that "Poots"flirts with another man in front of her husband but not abnormal. Even her husband is rather intrigued to watch her performance and doesn't get angry because the man she is flirting with is richer than he is. Yet, there is still an underlying conceit that one eventually has to get married, one can not just divorce and then live on one's own.

6. Discuss the significance of Isabelle's friendship with her cousin Laurence. How does this relationship contrast with her romantic entanglements?

Isabelle loves Laurence because he promises to give her a stable, no nonsense home environment, far from the crazy high-jinks of her other rich admirers, but he makes a judgement about her based on a misunderstanding. Her other entanglements all derive from the man falling for Isabelle, so Laurence is unique in that he walks away from her.

8. How do Isabelle’s experiences in post-World War I society reflect the changing roles of women during this time period?

For one, she had her own money, although it was managed by her uncle, the principle and income was her own even after she married. Quite a few people in the novel get divorced and remarried. Divorce is not considered a blemish against society during this time like it had been previously. The women had a certain amount of power to effect their own lives, although it was through love, lust and money, nevertheless one didn't need to have to follow a strict convention of what one's parents wanted you to do. The social classes are slightly more elastic. A rich industrialist is considered upper class and those with noble titles don't tend to have money or any real privilege. The artisans, hat makers, dress designers etc. are also not merely servants but small time business people with their own ability to thrive.

9. What is the significance of death in the novel? How does this event affect Isabelle’s understanding of love and loss?

Isabelle experiences a number of great loses in the book and it is this that keeps the book from tipping over into mere upper class antics. Regardless of how stable and controlled Isabelle wants to be she can not control death and it is after the final encounter with death in the book that she finally learns a bit about what a real partnership is and how real communication works.

10. How does Rebecca West use Isabelle’s inner thoughts and reflections to provide insight into broader philosophical and social issues?

As I answered to the first question, the book is on the surface only about Isabelle but Isabelle like any good character represents the society and times that she is living in. Isabelle would have been considered a modern, independent women of that era. Her desire to find stability and a certain amount of physical independence while pursuing an emotional dependency that will give her comfort, well reflects the struggle many women were going through at that time. WWI was pure chaos and permanently broke many of the prevailing societal structures. The result of these breaks were the crazy jazz era of the "roaring twenties" but many people were searching for some meaning in their life along with some predictability.

[Jane]

1. How does Isabelle’s character development reflect the novel’s exploration of personal independence and emotional dependency?
The opening chapter shows that Isabelle fears impulsive acts that would destroy the order of her life. This is one of the reasons that Laurence appeals to her; his life at Mount Iris is meaningful and logical and safe, excluding, “the heated sort of wrong she feared more than anything else in life.” It seems ironic that she would find happiness with Marc, who is all impulse and emotion.

Living among the socialites of Marc’s acquaintance, she becomes aware of how empty their intellectual lives are. Although they physically entertain themselves (by skiing, swimming, tennis), this cannot take up the entire day. Whenever they become aware of how intellectually and morally empty their lives are, they start drinking to numb the pain. She does not want this life for herself or her husband.

Isabelle wants a meaningful life and fears in herself what she loathes in those around her, their privilege and undisciplined behavior. She ultimately rejects Alan because he is too gentle, and “the violence and disorder that she hated” could only be worsted by a force greater than itself, such as made Marc so strong a man.”

As Gail points out, she actually wants emotional dependency. And she doesn’t become “independent” in a way we think of it today. She is economically independent and could find a meaningful life outside of marriage, but that never occurs to her.

2. In what ways does Rebecca West critique the social and political structures of 1920s France?
The clearest way she critiques this is through the representation of the wealthy (see above), who live pointless lives. Marc’s factory and lifestyle also brings up class structure; he believes his workers all adore him and are only inspired to strike by a few bad seeds from the Communist party. In reality, he exploits his workers to make cheap cars that he would never drive and lives a life of luxury. Isabelle seems to recognize this, but the book does not critique him for it.

West is more concerned with critiquing the wealthy socialites who are content “with the petty” and unable to form “any noble and continuous pattern.” Marc seems to be separate and/or above this because he works. Isabelle blames this lifestyle and the people in it for Marc’s behavior at Le Tourquet and her subsequent miscarriage: the international socialites, as well as Lady Barnaclouth and Poots, the snobby, privileged, in-bred nobility of British society, and the corrupt d’Alperoussas.

BTW, I disagree with several points made in the Boxall description of the book. Isabelle is hardly “middle class” and she never “enthusiastically embraces” the social circle of the wealthy.

3. How does the title The Thinking Reed, drawn from Blaise Pascal's quote, relate to the themes of human fragility and resilience in the novel?
Man is subject to the same forces of nature as all living things, but only man is aware that he suffers and dies. Isabelle desires order and meaning and a pattern to existence. “Pattern” comes up a lot in the critique of the vacuous wealthy – there is no “pattern” to their life. As orphan and a widow, Isabelle is familiar with death and perhaps thinks she is immune to its emotional impact, but experiencing a miscarriage throws her life into chaos because it shows that death is “disorderly and violent” and takes people at the wrong time. A child dying before its parents is the epitome of this.

Perhaps this is what she learns to accept in her life with Marc – there is no way to protect yourself from suffering and harm, so face it with someone who is strong, who makes you laugh, who you respect, who loves you.

4. How does West portray the role of marriage and romantic relationships in shaping women's identities?
Isabelle is completely shaped by her romantic relationships. As discussed above, the idea of being independent never occurs to her, and most of the actions she takes are related to romance and/or marriage.

For example, she is largely driven by the need for logic and order, and she only behaves in an unpredictable, emotional manner is when men drive her to it. Even then, it is not “true” emotion, but an act that she puts on to manipulate them. In both cases, she suffers. When she crushes André’s roses, Laurence sees it and changes his mind about proposing. Ironically, this makes her accept Marc’s proposal, even though he would seem to represent everything she despises (given the initial description of him as impulsive and even violent). At the casino in Le Tourquet, she acts the role of the jealous wife in order to save her husband, and this brings on a miscarriage which, again ironically, almost ends her marriage.

5. What role does wealth and privilege play in the moral decisions made by the characters in the novel?
It plays a HUGE role! As discussed above, the wealth and privilege of the French socialites and English aristocracy are the primary reason their lives are empty and petty. They often behave in a morally questionable manner because their wealth and social significance protect them from punishment. E.g. Poots’s attempt to steal Pillans because her own husband is not wealthy is just accepted by those around her, even her husband. And Marc and Isabelle are forced to dine with the criminal d’Alperoussa, who everyone accepts because he is wealthy. Isabelle recognizes her privilege at several points, such as when she in a clinic post-miscarriage and realizes that if she were a sailor’s wife, she might likely have died. She also seems to have an innate understanding of the way Marc’s factory exploits workers, although she doesn’t try to interfere with anything, assuming he knows best in this area.

6. Discuss the significance of Isabelle's friendship with her cousin Laurence. How does this relationship contrast with her romantic entanglements?
Is Laurence her cousin? I missed that. Regardless, see points about re: Laurence.

7. In what ways does West explore the theme of freedom versus security?
See answers above and below.

8. How do Isabelle’s experiences in post-World War I society reflect the changing roles of women during this time period?
First, I have to admit that it was not clear to me when the story is set. The book was published in 1936, so I assumed it was mid-1930s. But the ending reveals that the Depression is imminent, so that would make it like mid-1920s.

Post-WWI, women were granted suffrage in the US and UK (although in France this didn’t happen until the 1940s!!). You see the rise of the flapper and her variations in other countries. The flapper in many ways breaks from Victorian ideals of womanhood; she smokes, drinks, pals around with men and, in theory, is more sexually liberated than her predecessors. Women’s options, however, remained limited and Isabelle shows this. Despite her wealth and social position (or maybe because of it?) she only conceives of herself as a potential wife and mother.

9. What is the significance of death in the novel? How does this event affect Isabelle’s understanding of love and loss?
As discussed above, because she is an orphan and a widow, Isabelle is more aware of mortality than others of her age and class. For example, after her miscarriage, she notes that “no new fact” about death was brought to her attention: “She had always known that everybody must die, and that she, and the people belonging to her, were not exempt from this rule. Since there was no life known which was free from these conditions, every reasonable person must take them for granted.” Knowing about the “fact” of death does not exempt her from the emotions surrounding it; she is depressed for months afterward, and it almost ends her marriage.

10. How does Rebecca West use Isabelle’s inner thoughts and reflections to provide insight into broader philosophical and social issues?
Almost the entire book is presented as her inner monologue, so the answers above address this question.

[Kristel]

1. How does Isabelle’s character development reflect the novel’s exploration of personal independence and emotional dependency?

Isabella is a widow with her own money. She is free to make decisions but seems very motivated to be married. Does this refelct the time period?

2. In what ways does Rebecca West critique the social and political structures of 1920s France?

Lots of society socializing and time spent gambling and drinking.

3. How does the title *The Thinking Reed*, drawn from Blaise Pascal's quote, relate to the themes of human fragility and resilience in the novel?

Isabelle does think a lot, in fact, the story is told entirely through Isabelle's thoughts and musings.

4. How does West portray the role of marriage and romantic relationships in shaping women's identities?
I was impressed how she displayed marriage. I think it was very realistic. The romance but also the struggles when a marriage undergoes an emotional upheaval. The decisions to leave or stay.

5. What role does wealth and privilege play in the moral decisions made by the characters in the novel?

The English were not displayed very favorable. They were out hunting down money and prestige. They could be inconsidered and rude.

6. Discuss the significance of Isabelle's friendship with her cousin Laurence. How does this relationship contrast with her romantic entanglements?

I didn't realize this was her cousin. I must have missed that. Laurence was embarrassed by Isabelle.

7. In what ways does West explore the theme of freedom versus security?

Luba had freedom but needed security. Isabelle has security and could claim freedom because of her security.


8. How do Isabelle’s experiences in post-World War I society reflect the changing roles of women during this time period?

Women are out in the public eye living the live of the casino.

9. What is the significance of death in the novel? How does this event affect Isabelle’s understanding of love and loss?


highlights the fragility of human life while simultaneously emphasizing the unique human capacity to understand and confront mortality, thereby giving life a deeper meaning (AI generated). Death of her husband Roy, her parents, her baby.

10. How does Rebecca West use Isabelle’s inner thoughts and reflections to provide insight into broader philosophical and social issues?

Because we are privy to Isabelle's thoughts, the author can but her thoughts of social issues into the book. These thoughts explore things like social and economic difference between privileged and the working people. It also explores difference in man and women, and marriage.

[Jenna]

1. How does Isabelle’s character development reflect the novel’s exploration of personal independence and emotional dependency?
Isabelle starts out in what feels like a desperate search for a new pairing. This is probably because at that time women are not really able to be single. And it’s a kind of crazy radical jump that she makes – she is breaking out from one trying to land with number 2 but when he rejects her, on the spur of the moment basically then says yes to number 3 who was never her choice. But it turns out to be an optimistic novel and this is a happy chance and this pairing gives her personality a bit of space to mature until the crisis hits and then she really has to grow up or destroy everything and that is climax of the novel.

2. In what ways does Rebecca West critique the social and political structures of 1920s France?
The mockery of the social scene is intensified by being spare and the repetition of just a few lines – Laura and Annette quarrelling at three different resorts for example. I found this more affecting than if I had to wade through long descriptions. I also liked the visit to the factory where Isabelle as the outsider sees the dynamic at the plant, and we have several scenes with servants to capture those relationships. I thought this one of the most effective aspects of the novel.

3. How does the title *The Thinking Reed*, drawn from Blaise Pascal's quote, relate to the themes of human fragility and resilience in the novel?
Isabelle is pretty clearly the thinking reed in this novel. At one point one character even says to her you are the most fragile person I’ve ever seen I want to protect you. Interestingly this happens right at the climax and is part of what helps her to see that she has been too dependent and needy and that she has to grow up and have more strength, to support her half of the marriage that she has.

4. How does West portray the role of marriage and romantic relationships in shaping women's identities?
It seems almost completely subsumed by it and I wasn’t clear about West’s attitude towards that or if she just accepted it as fact. This is in contrast for example to writers like Wharton who rage against this.

5. What role does wealth and privilege play in the moral decisions made by the characters in the novel?
I got tired of Isabelle’s “I would be a better person if I were poor” refrain, that seems dis-ingenuine and wrong – poor people are depressed too they are just busy and depressed, they are cruel and immoral. Being poor doesn’t make you good, being good makes you good. There were no poor characters however to either prove or disprove the point so it was possible to think that this was in fact just an illustration of Isabelle being naïve.

6. Discuss the significance of Isabelle's friendship with her cousin Laurence. How does this relationship contrast with her romantic entanglements?
This was in fact a romanticized relationship and not at all real – a fantasy of rescue and as soon as she saw the real Laurence she realized that there was nothing there that she wanted as he was embarrassed by her and in fact he never writes to her later we learn.

7. In what ways does West explore the theme of freedom versus security?
Ah, this is the whole book. What is security really – it is creating a genuine bond with another human even it means the risk of losing them through death. And in that bond comes the freedom to be one’s self because it is only by really acknowledging and knowing both one’s self and one’s partner that such a bond is possible.

8. How do Isabelle’s experiences in post-World War I society reflect the changing roles of women during this time period?
Its very interesting that Isabelle is able to come to France and start up an affair but have it be relatively discrete so that there is no scandal, and yet her whole goal is still marriage and not to be single and enjoy entertaining. The married women having affairs seems to me to be not to be new to the times.

9. What is the significance of death in the novel? How does this event affect Isabelle’s understanding of love and loss?
Isabelle has been stranded by death and her isolation is part of how she insulates herself, which Marc only gradually manages to bridge. The grief of the miscarriage is of another order and that is because she was thinking of that as a bond back to reality and purpose in life. And so she wants to throw it all over because she thinks there isn’t anything left. It isn’t until the end when she has finally grown up and recognized the importance to herself of her bond with Marc that he also says to her that the thing between them would be important even if they were both sterile.

10. How does Rebecca West use Isabelle’s inner thoughts and reflections to provide insight into broader philosophical and social issues?
Isabelle is very talkative! This novel is quite explicit with a lot of inner monologue and rumination that ensures we are following the important points.

[Rosemary]

1. How does Isabelle’s character development reflect the novel’s exploration of personal independence and emotional dependency?
The two conflict in Isabelle. She is actually a good example of what is often seen as a 21st century phenomenon, the "entitled" young person. In the 1920s this was limited to the rich, but it was definitely a generational thing, not a strong feature of the previous generation or the next.

2. In what ways does Rebecca West critique the social and political structures of 1920s France?
This comes through in the way Marc is described. As a capitalist, he draws a huge income from his business while paying the minimum possible to his workers. The novel suggests that the workers wouldn't mind this if he was doing good things with the money, even if it was just taking care of a big house or saving it for his descendants. But they hate that he gambles away the profits from their hard work, so they go on strike.

3. How does the title *The Thinking Reed*, drawn from Blaise Pascal's quote, relate to the themes of human fragility and resilience in the novel?
I can see Isabelle as a reed, bending with the fashions, spending time with people she doesn't even like, out of an inability to say no, which is a kind of laziness. In the end she shows herself to be resilient, but she has to hit rock bottom first.

4. How does West portray the role of marriage and romantic relationships in shaping women's identities?
I was surprised that Isabelle was faithful to Marc although she married him very much on the rebound. It seemed to me that she felt she was defined as his wife and grew into this part so that she came to love and respect him. Marriage and romance was pretty much all she had, along with some unfulfilling "friendships".

5. What role does wealth and privilege play in the moral decisions made by the characters in the novel?
Their wealth defined them, really. There were suggestions that Marc and Isabelle would have been happier with less money, but not with none at all!

6. Discuss the significance of Isabelle's friendship with her cousin Laurence. How does this relationship contrast with her romantic entanglements?
He wasn't her cousin. He was a college friend of her first husband. The suggestion is she could have had a stable and conventional life with him, and this was tempting because it was such a contrast with her other relationships (including with her first husband, who had a risky life, like all her other lovers in their different ways, except for Laurence). But I don't think such a grounded, restricted life would have satisfied her.

7. In what ways does West explore the theme of freedom versus security?
See 6 above

8. How do Isabelle’s experiences in post-World War I society reflect the changing roles of women during this time period?
This is a difficult question because the book is set in France where married women (and widows) always had more freedom than in England & the USA, while unmarried women had less. I don't know much about the changing roles of women in France at that time.

9. What is the significance of death in the novel? How does this event affect Isabelle’s understanding of love and loss?
I think the death of her first husband destabilised Isabelle and made it difficult for her to trust anyone. I think she felt betrayed by fate - she had certain expectations of life and they were not fulfilled. The death of her unborn child was another turning point.