What are we reading? 23/09/2024

[Paul]

AB76 wrote: "Logger24 wrote: "Back from a wonderful two weeks in Sicily – perfect weather, just one day of rain (though not so good for the orange groves and vineyards seriously damaged by drought). We’re alrea..."

Ahh, Bruno Munari is brilliant. He wrote and illustrated many, many children's books in Italy which are still classics and are juts beautiful. Leo Lionni is another contemporary who trod similar paths, although he wasn't as important in the design field

[AB76]

Paul wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Logger24 wrote: "Back from a wonderful two weeks in Sicily – perfect weather, just one day of rain (though not so good for the orange groves and vineyards seriously damaged by drought)..."

Buzatti himself, lest we forget, was a pretty good artist too with his cartoon novel Poem Strip

[Gpfr]

Speaking of illustrating children's books, I'm going to boast a little: my daughter (some of whose drawings I've posted in the past) has just had her first book published.

[giveusaclue]

Gpfr wrote: "Speaking of illustrating children's books, I'm going to boast a little: my daughter (some of whose drawings I've posted in the past) has just had her first book published."

Wow, that is wonderful news. Well done her!

[AB76]

Gpfr wrote: "Speaking of illustrating children's books, I'm going to boast a little: my daughter (some of whose drawings I've posted in the past) has just had her first book published."

love this.....! well done GPFR Jnr

[RussellinVT]

Sicily, Italian reading - Thanks for all the comments and the guidance. I've started and stopped a few times learning Italian, but I aim to have a real go this winter.

[Berkley]

Gpfr wrote: "Speaking of illustrating children's books, I'm going to boast a little: my daughter (some of whose drawings I've posted in the past) has just had her first book published."

Congratulations!

[Berkley]

Logger24 wrote: "Sicily, Italian reading - Thanks for all the comments and the guidance. I've started and stopped a few times learning Italian, but I aim to have a real go this winter."

Which book or other material are you using? Not that I plan to start learning Italian any time soon but I have thought about it, so I'm curious if you recommend anything in particular. I just finshed reading an English translation of Orlando Furioso and I often found myself wondering how certain passages might compare to the original.

[Berkley]

Bill wrote: "...

- Olaf Stapledon, Last And First Men (1930)"

On of my favourite books, as is Starmaker, though it's been many years since I read either.

[RussellinVT]

Berkley wrote: "Logger24 wrote: "Sicily, Italian reading - Thanks for all the comments and the guidance. I've started and stopped a few times learning Italian, but I aim to have a real go this winter."

Which book or other material are you using?..."

The book I’ve used before and aim to use again, even though it’s now pretty old, is Living Italian by Maria Valgimigli. I like it because of its grammatical approach. Once I can see how e.g. the basic verbs are conjugated, and how simple pronouns and plurals work, I’m content to learn by reading a story, very slowly, with a dictionary (Langenscheidt) in hand, making notes of new words and phrases as I go along. This worked for me with French (30 minutes a day without fail), and it’s what Tim Parks did as well, according to his foreword in A Literary Tour. I don’t care for learning from audio lessons, as they leave me very foggy on the syntax.

Orlando Furioso – I’d be interested to know which translation you read. One of our sons knows all the Italian romances, in translation, and he thinks the relatively recent version by A.S. Kline is the best one of O.F.

[scarletnoir]

Bill wrote: "For the best of America was too weak to withstand the worst. Americans had indeed contributed amply to human thought. They had helped to emancipate philosophy from ancient fetters. They had served ..."

I assume you think this quote is still relevant to today's USA. Unfortunately, you could be right. (Good quote, BTW.)

[scarletnoir]

Logger24 wrote: "Back from a wonderful two weeks in Sicily – perfect weather, just one day of rain (though not so good for the orange groves and vineyards seriously damaged by drought). We’re already planning a ret..."

Sounds like a great trip - thanks for the interesting post.

[scarletnoir]

Gpfr wrote: "Speaking of illustrating children's books, I'm going to boast a little: my daughter (some of whose drawings I've posted in the past) has just had her first book published."

Very good! What type of book is it?

[scarletnoir]

Interesting comments by several of you about Italian writers and books - I'm afraid that I have barely scratched the surface of that country's literature.

[Robert]

scarletnoir wrote: "Bill wrote: "For the best of America was too weak to withstand the worst. Americans had indeed contributed amply to human thought. They had helped to emancipate philosophy from ancient fetters. The..."

The Hopkins Manuscript, a Thirties novel where the world, just having survived a terrible natural disaster, is torn apart by a new generation of violent leaders, might be even more relevant.

[Berkley]

Logger24 wrote: "The book I’ve used before and aim to use again, even though it’s now pretty old, is Living Italian by Maria Valgimigli. I like it because of its grammatical approach. Once I can see how e.g. the basic verbs are conjugated, and how simple pronouns and plurals work, I’m content to learn by reading a story, very slowly, with a dictionary (Langenscheidt) in hand, making notes of new words and phrases as I go along. This worked for me with French (30 minutes a day without fail), and it’s what Tim Parks did as well, according to his foreword in A Literary Tour. I don’t care for learning from audio lessons, as they leave me very foggy on the syntax.

Orlando Furioso – I’d be interested to know which translation you read. One of our sons knows all the Italian romances, in translation, and he thinks the relatively recent version by A.S. Kline is the best one of O.F."

Thanks for those details on language learning. If I do give Italian a try some day I might have a look for that same book.

I like your method and have followed a similar plan with French but have never managed to get far with any other languages. I do think audio courses have some use - not for learning the grammar so much as to get a feel for listening and speaking.

On Ariosto, this time I read William Stewart Rose's 1820s-30s translation. I had previously read the Barbara Reynolds one that's available in a 2-volume Penguin paperback edition but so long ago that I can't really compare the two. I thought the Rose version occasionally felt a little stiff and unnatural but not so much as to significantly lessen my enjoyment of the narrative. I think I'll go back to the Reynolds next time, though.

And there will be a next time because I've now ordered Boiardo's Orlando Inamorato, the poem to which Ariosto's is a sequel. But most likely I'll allow a few years to pass by before reading that one and then continuing the story with Ariosto.

[giveusaclue]

Berkley wrote: "Logger24 wrote: "Sicily, Italian reading - Thanks for all the comments and the guidance. I've started and stopped a few times learning Italian, but I aim to have a real go this winter."

Which book..."

We used the Contatti series of Italian Course books at night school. Can recommend them. They are widely available I believe.

[AB76]

Robert wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Bill wrote: "For the best of America was too weak to withstand the worst. Americans had indeed contributed amply to human thought. They had helped to emancipate philosophy from ..."

this has been on my pile for a while..must get round to reading it. Sherriff is a very interesting writer

[Paul]

Gpfr wrote: "Speaking of illustrating children's books, I'm going to boast a little: my daughter (some of whose drawings I've posted in the past) has just had her first book published."

Whoa, that is incredible. Good for her and congratulations

[AB76]

The Shipyard by Carlos Onetti is a wonderful wintry tale, so far. I mean Uruguuyan wintry so damp and cool but not icy

Elements of the narrative are playful, others seem almost as satire or a farce. A man called Larsen travels back to his native Uruguay from Buenos Aires and gets a job with a local shipyard owner, as manager of the yard. The yard is a ruin ,with rusting instruments, windows gape, puddles cover the floor of the main boathouse and there seems to be nothing to do, but he works, a 9-5, while possibly trying to seduce the disabled daughter of the shipyard owner.

No motive seems to be presented, characters sort of occupy space and mock or threaten things, the atmosphere is superb and it seems tighter than some of Onetti's other novels that become a dense web of whispered suggestions.

[Gpfr]

scarletnoir wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "my daughter (some of whose drawings I've posted in the past) has just had her first book published."

Very good! What type of book is it?..."

A picture book for young children. Some animals are problematic in the context of the book, an elephant is too big to fit on the page, a boa is too long ... But a cat curled up asleep is just right.

[scarletnoir]

Gpfr wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "my daughter (some of whose drawings I've posted in the past) has just had her first book published."

Very good! What type of book is it?..."

A picture book for yo..."

A sort of Procrustean tale for the very young? ;-) It sounds funny.

[scarletnoir]

Berkley wrote: "I like your method and have followed a similar plan with French but have never managed to get far with any other languages. I do think audio courses have some use - not for learning the grammar so much as to get a feel for listening and speaking."

I think the best approach very much depends on what you plan to do with the language.

I was 32 when moved to France to work (actually, to be with my girlfriend and now wife of 42 years...). I was working in an English-medium school so had no need of French for work, but I did need it for socialising with madame's family and friends...

I'd studied French at school, and had the basics of the grammar (I certainly think that is essential if you want to know a language well)... so for vocabulary on the page, I chose to read/re-read a lot of Simenon's 'Maigret' books, which I knew well in translation. The language is not too complex and you can often guess at meaning from the context.

On the other hand... this is no help at all for conversation, especially as the French tend to speak quickly (or maybe it's just that all native speakers appear to speak quickly, if you don't know the language yourself!) So, apart from mingling with French people, I watched the news programmes every night - the same words would reappear often, and newsreaders generally have clear diction. This was a big help. I'd also go to see films in French...

By now, my French is pretty good (including slang, which I love), though the accent has never been all that great...

[giveusaclue]

scarletnoir wrote: "Berkley wrote: "I like your method and have followed a similar plan with French but have never managed to get far with any other languages. I do think audio courses have some use - not for learning..."

My biggest problem with French which I did to O level at school is that they only pronounce half the word! Marseille/Marsay!!

[AB76]

scarletnoir wrote: "Berkley wrote: "I like your method and have followed a similar plan with French but have never managed to get far with any other languages. I do think audio courses have some use - not for learning..."

i think accent is the toughest thing when moving from a native germanic tongue to a romance tongue and vice versa. Germans and us seem unable to easily perfect a french or spanish accent and the same the other way round

It is notable how germanic language speakers like the danes, swedes and norwegians can master an english accent very well, the dutch and germans speak it well but seem unable to eliminate the sounds of their own language

my german was once very good and in berlin one year, a girl likened it to a "dresden accent". i was chuffed until i checked out that accents from Saxony and Dresden are seen as the oddest and hardest to understand for fellow Germans! Oops. My french is still ok, learnt mainly immersed on family holidays from age 8 to 16(alongside GCSE etc) in corsica, very few english tourists, so french was only way to communicate.

[Gpfr]

I usually enjoy Lindsey Davis's Roman-set novels with the informers, first Falco and then Flavia Albia, investigating crimes, but I'm finding this latest one — Death on the Tiber — a bit of a slog, not quite sure why. It seems rather tired, maybe she's running out of steam.

[giveusaclue]

Gpfr wrote: " I usually enjoy Lindsey Davis's Roman-set novels with the informers, first Falco and then Flavia Albia, investigating crimes, but I'm finding this latest on..."

It's a while since I read any, but there are a lot!

[RussellinVT]

scarletnoir wrote: "Berkley wrote: "I like your method and have followed a similar plan with French..."

I think the best approach very much depends on what you plan to do with the language.

I’m sure you’re right. I’m looking only to read books in the original, with some ability to cope as a tourist. Different story if you’re living there. When I was in Paris decades ago I too liked to watch the news readers, and watch the football (the Euros – “Aah, Linnekaire – qu’il est vite!”), and also a particular slinkily attractive weather lady who pouted her lips with vigour and articulated every syllable – couldn’t take your eyes off her.

[AB76]

got a friend request from Mandy Isaacs, anyone kno her?

[Robert]

giveusaclue wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Berkley wrote: "I like your method and have followed a similar plan with French but have never managed to get far with any other languages. I do think audio courses have some us..."

And if the French disagree? When a friend worked in the US for a French company, the Parisian boss clucked at her pronunciation. She immediately received support from non-Parisians. "No, no. I'm from Marseilles, and she pronounced it just right.
But the boss did teach her something-- about Peter Sellers. She knew that his Inspector Clouseau's speech was a parody of a French accent. She learned that he spoke in a parody of a Parisian accent.

[AB76]

In Journals: Vol 2, John Fowles is on the cusp of greatness, with the film version of his second novel The Magus in cinemas and his novel The French Lieutenants Women just published, it is 1969.

It might seem odd i'm starting on his second volume before the first, that i have only read his debut novel and have no real knowledge of his life but i had a uni friend who worshipped Fowles and some of that rubbed off on me, without indulging at the time

The style is downbeat, filled with fustrations, the relationship with his wife is strained, he loathes the society of publishers and actors he circulates in. Scathing about the actors and actresses he comes accross for their shallowness and banality(though Terence Stamp goes down well, he recalls Stamp lunching with Tory PM Ted Heath and giving him advice about PMQ's. Stamp was maybe 27, Heath in his 50s)

The nature sections balance the introspective gloom and his commentary on late 1960s Britain is interesting, he sees decay and decadence all around him.

[Bill]

Seeing reports on Twitter that Robert Coover has died, age 92.