The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
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The Brothers Karamazov
Fyodor Dostoevsky Collection
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The Brothers Karamazov 2024 - Week 3
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I hope all is well with your husband Gem.I'd like to hop on this reading if y'all don't mind. I have read Brothers.
I also began a great audio version on Librivox
https://librivox.org/brothers-karamaz...
I heard this guy read The Mayor of Casterbridge also.
For Brothers he does a fine job with Russian names.
Mod
I'd like to hop on this reading if y'all don't mind. I have read Brothers."
Thank you!
Absolutely, jump right in.
Gem, I agree that this section is packed with information about the characters, but I struggled with it because I have begun to dislike most of the main characters. Fyodor has no redeeming qualities that I have seen; Dmitri has no loyalty to the woman he has pledged to marry and displays great cowardice in getting Ayosha to break the engagement for him; Ivan is portrayed as an intellectual, but he doesn't seem to have a sense of humor or humanity.; Smerdyakov should be a creature who is pitied, but that is difficult to do when he is so obnoxious; Grigory, who orginally had my fondness because of caring for the infant Karamazovs, seems to be a hardened religious fanatic. The only one of the main male characters who seems good is Alyosha. I'm sure that these personality defects will be integral to the plot going forward, but it's hard to be patient with such a worthless group.
Mod
I think you summed up the characters spot on.
I'm so behind and I'm not sure I can keep up but I'm going to jump in with my comments in any case, hoping they might be helpful.We can look at Zosima, Alyosha, Stinking Lisabetta, etc as "Holy Fools" and they have been described as such. Holy Fool was a tradition in Russia. There were real holy fools. Perhaps they were like street people in our day, and they may have not been entirely sane, but they spoke truth to power, not with bravado but perhaps accidentally. People honoured that. They were given food and shelter at times and they were honoured in a peculiarly Russian sort of way. Were they cared for because they reminded people of what humility is required of all of us? They challenged convention where that convention may have been corrupted. I've read comments were people have mentioned "mad" or "madness" but it's helpful to look for truth in that madness.
Shame has warped Fyodor’s heart due to the shameful acts he’s committed. However, Dimitry’s sense of shame is different. He identifies the shame, he recognizes it, he speaks it, and it does bring him to a sense of repentance at times. He’s able to try to clear it out and even if he can't entirely, one wonders if he can get to repentance. Fyodor doesn’t feel shame, he couldn’t express it as his state of mind or heart. He’s beyond shame entirely. Maybe shame got him to to the place he's at but he’s left it behind. He's incapable of repentance. He’s the liar of liars. He’s demonic. There is no shame in him anymore.
With Dimitry, shame could be leading him to salvation; with Fyodor shame is leading him to damnation.
Well, as Dostoyevsky likes to do, he turns things on their head.When Grushenka turns on Katarina, it's not a gratuitous attack. She’s seen in Katarina that Katarina is capable of pridefully using others to ennoble herself. Grushenka is not being fickle or vindictive and you begin to understand the virtue and integrity of Grushenka. She is viewed as a strumpet or a whore but she’s not. This is the first indication that Katarina’s nobility is flawed and Grushenka recognizes it.
There are flaws even in the speech that Katarina uses. She’s out to get Dimitry and be the source of his salvation, but there’s a hubris and self gratification in her desire. So it becomes less surprising that Dimitry doesn’t choose Katarina, even though it’s clear that she is the extraordinary beauty. There is an extraordinary hubris in her and Grushenka recognizes that hubris because it leads to self-deception & deliberate deception. We begin to see that there is an unexpected depth to Grushenka.
Mod
We can look at Zosima, Alyosha, Stinking Lisabetta, etc as"Holy Fools" and they have been described as such. Holy Fool was a tradition in Russia.
I had no idea, I'm going to have to do some reading on the topic. Thanks for pointing that out.
Week 3 - Part One, Book III
1) Wow! Three chapters are devoted to Dmitri's story. I felt like Book 3 had so much going on in it. We finally get to know the backstory of Dmitri, Katya, Fyodor, and Grushenka. So what do you think of Dmitri's revelations about how he and Katerina came to be engaged, and more importantly, how and why his feelings have changed?
2) Why does Dmitri now choose Grushenka? It's clear he holds Katya in such high regard. What is the driving force behind his actions and decisions? And why does he keep saying he "bows" to Katerina?
3) There are more revelations on the character of Fyodor Karamazov, seen through his vile actions:
- He most likely impregnated Lizaveta thereby fathering Smerdyakov.
- He tormented Sofia, Ivan, and Alyosha's mother, to the point that she would shriek. r.
- He spits on Sofia's revered religious icon.
The book keeps piling on informing us of terrible action after terrible action done by Fyodor Karamazov. Why do you think the author does that?
4) At the same time we are seeing Fyodor's vileness, the revelation that he gets lonely and needs a faithful and trustworthy man like Grigory by his side. Why do you think the author is showing us this side of Fyodor?
5) We meet Smerdyakov, Fyodor, and Ivan in the dining room, when Alyosha joins them. Their topic is on the Christian who did not renounce his faith in Christ upon threat of torture and death. He died praising Christ. Smerdyakov believes it's not sinful for a Christian to renounce his faith. Do you agree or disagree with him? Why?
6) Finally, we meet the infamous Grushenka. What did you think of Grushenka's actions towards Katerina? Why did she intentionally humiliate and alienate Katerina Ivanovna? And in front of Alyosha, no less?